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    Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:53 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:Something flying at 5+ Mach, to perform a 45 degrees dive, would have in the first place to climb some hundreds if not thousand meters high before performing the dive, easing this way the work of interceptors.

    Flying low just above sea level is key to make interception difficult, first because of clutter generated by sea surface, and second because any high -G manouvre from an intercepting missile at very low height could easily turn into the interceptor ditching itself into the sea.

    AS-2 used to dive in the final course before hitting the target, and that flight pattern has been abandoned for very good reasons.

    Trying to intercept a sea-skimming missile is a hell of a job even against subsonic missiles, doing against a high mach number one would be way more difficult than intercepting whatever try to dive from medium heights, no matters its speed.

    Taking an unpredictable evasive course like the Iskander is still better and this seems to be the way Russian missile development is going.

    Seeing it is irrelivent if you cannot hit it.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:53 pm


    Fresh one from the real world:

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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:06 am

    Can anyone give an analysis that weighs the advantages and disadvantages between the P-1000/P-500 and P-700? AFAIK both have salvo networking capability, both are sea skimming, both have the same speed, both have the similar ranges(except P-1000 has an advantage here). What made soviets decide to use 2 very different missiles almost analogous in capability? Was it the ability for the P-700 to be vertically launched while the P-500 couldnt?
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    archangelski

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  archangelski on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:09 am

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:24 pm

    archangelski wrote:https://i.imgur.com/zzZprBe.jpg

    It's back in the water?

    When is this from?
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:16 pm

    Old photo.

    This is from when they brought it to Sevmash for the major Kapremont.

    hoom

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  hoom on Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:40 pm

    Apparently there is major changes to the plan to the extent of requiring a new contract
    http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=485479
    google translate wrote: "Given the fact that the Ministry of Defense made significant changes to the terms of reference, we, in general, now need to re-sign, probably, an additional agreement and continue to work on the basis of the additions already made." I can not say anything more, "- said A. Rakhmanov on the sidelines of the industrial exhibition "Innoprom".
    "Now we will understand how the amount of modernization will change, I mean already on the basis of the contract, we will continue working on it," A.Rakhmanov said
    Doesn't actually say whether its more new stuff or a cutback Suspect

    In context of contemplating not upgrading Moskva & apparently Poliment-Redut (which is supposed to be coming to Nakhimov) causing further delays on 22350 a cutback would seem likely.
    On the other hand, money saved on Moskva could allow more for Nakhimov...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:19 pm


    Russian Navy making shit up as they go along and changing their minds every 2 minutes like a spoiled golddigger whore as is their time honored tradition

    Like I said before: give them one ship type that they can have and tell them to either use it or go fuck themselves

    Never indulge bitches because they will always keep asking for more and will never do what they are told

    chicken

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  chicken on Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:12 am

    hoom wrote:

    In context of contemplating not upgrading Moskva & apparently Poliment-Redut (which is supposed to be coming to Nakhimov) causing further delays on 22350 a cutback would seem likely.
    On the other hand, money saved on Moskva could allow more for Nakhimov...

    When did they say that Poliment-Redut was coming to Nakhimov? I was under the impression that it will get the same AA system as Peter the Great since the budget clearly included S-300FM and no mention of Poliment-Redut, only some new Dirk.

    hoom

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  hoom on Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:35 pm

    Its been variously quoted as part of the upgrade, pretty consistently in recent articles, the code for Poliment radar was part of the old component list.
    I'm not sure its been actually officially stated though.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:57 pm

    Regardless, it looks like the Redut is the great "delayer" used by the shipyards now.

    Honestly, someone needs to bring back "Order 227" for these Shipyards.  Mad

    hoom

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  hoom on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:31 pm

    Actually Severnaya Verf/USC is arguing that its done all the work needed, problem is between Navy & Almaz-Antey -> Navy should take Gorshkov off its hands and fully pay for the damn thing!
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    kvs

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  kvs on Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:06 pm

    hoom wrote:Actually Severnaya Verf/USC is arguing that its done all the work needed, problem is between Navy & Almaz-Antey -> Navy should take Gorshkov off its hands and fully pay for the damn thing!

    You are assuming that the management at Almaz-Antey is honest and not trying to screw over the taxpayer.

    Future contracts should stipulate the exact conflict resolution process. If the contractors don't want to abide, they can
    go and get stuffed. Starving capitalists need your money!

    hoom

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  hoom on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:47 pm

    Point is the shipyard isn't trying to hide behind Poliment-Redut issues.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:54 pm

    hoom wrote:Point is the shipyard isn't trying to hide behind Poliment-Redut issues.

    Both parties, are probly blaming each other and demanding more money to "resolve" the problem whichever gets the money, the other gets a cut.
    Everyone wins, except the the tax payer of course.

    Order.227 for both of them as far as i am concerned.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:27 pm

    The Russian Navy will receive the nuclear cruiser Admiral Nakhimov in 2022

    The Russian Navy will receive a heavy nuclear-powered missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov, which undergoes major overhaul with modernization at Sevmash in 2022. The general director of the enterprise, Mikhail Budnychenko, told TASS on Wednesday at the forum "Army-2018".

    "Under the contract with USC in 2022, the heavy nuclear-powered missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov should be transferred to the fleet, although there are some issues with funding, I hope, and I am even sure that they will be resolved soon," Budnichenko said.

    He also said that the same-type heavy nuclear-powered cruiser "Peter the Great", which is in the combat composition of the Russian Navy, will undergo similar repairs with modernization not on Sevmash. "The cruiser will be repaired either in the center of the ship repair" Zvezdochka ", or at the Baltic plant," Budnichenko said.

    Earlier, a source in the defense industry informed TASS that the work on the cruiser Admiral Nakhimov was delayed until 2022.

    "Admiral Nakhimov" project 1144 "Orlan" until 1992 was called "Kalinin". It was laid on May 17, 1983 at the Baltic Shipyard. The ship was launched on April 25, 1986, and on December 30, 1988, it replenished the combat composition of the Russian Navy.

    In the spring of 2013, a state contract was signed for the repair and modernization of the ship, which was delivered to the dry dock of Sevmash in the fall of 2014. As a result of modernization, the cruiser will have completely new tactical and technical characteristics.

    So we are already ~2-3 months short of 3 years in rebuild, and looks like there is ~3 to go, assuming floated by end of 2021 for delivery in 2022.  Hmmm..  she originally took 5.5 years to build from laying down to acceptance.  I suppose its not the Soviet era anymore, and with complex ships its often harder to strip and rebuild than it is to build new.   Rolling Eyes

    Given that PtG is active and maintained  in good condition, its expected her upgrade will be a much less costly affair. Fingers crossed...  silent

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5480010

    mnztr

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  mnztr on Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:08 pm

    does it make sense to use a different shipyard to rebuild the next one?
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    Hole

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Hole on Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:34 pm

    In the videos ffrom the repair/refit you can see that replacing the weapons/electronics is the fun part. Most of the pipes and cables are replaced, which is complicated/time expensive in a completed ship, as you said.

    I guess to give the job to another yard is something like a test for their modernisation/reorganisation.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  mnztr on Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:04 pm

    I doubt they will do many more like this. I think they want to order the Leider and the Nakhimov and PTG are to test and develop the weapons suite for Leider, and both these shipyards will be building Leiders if they prove capable..
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:17 pm

    mnztr wrote:does it make sense to use a different shipyard to rebuild the next one?

    after completing work the first yard has experience and qualified workers and subcontractors' network. Then to change?
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    Hole

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Hole on Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:42 pm

    Maybe to give another yard the same experience.

    mnztr

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  mnztr on Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:11 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    mnztr wrote:does it make sense to use a different shipyard to rebuild the next one?

    after completing work the first yard has experience and qualified workers and subcontractors' network. Then  to change?  

    yes it seems inefficient...especially with only 2 ships
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:13 pm

    Hole wrote:Maybe to give another yard the same experience.

    another year can start then LHA or building Gorshkov for example? IMHO mor eefficient
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:15 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    yes it seems inefficient...especially with only 2 ships
    especially that this is a sort of reverse-engineering work. Not much knowledge all mechanisms is left to my guess. Then design new ones. But very likely also to test solutions used for Liders in near future.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:11 am

    My guess is that they have other plans for Sevmash once the Nahkimov is refloated, and they don't want to tie her up for another 4 years on PtG modernisation.

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