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    Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:51 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    A1RMAN wrote:So is modernized 1144 potent enough to be a core of Russian fleet against foreign fleets like Turkey, Japan etc. in upcoming decade?

    Surely you are not serious with this question?? The Nakhimov is undergoing deep modernisation of weapons and sensors and comprehensive refurb of her propulsion and marine systems, and once back in service, she will be the most powerful surface combatant (non-carrier) on the planet.  I don't think there is any real doubt that Nakhimov and her sisters-ships are capable of fulfilling such a role.

    Problem is even if they modernize all four and they only confirmed two so far, all four will not be able to be a huge factor in a major naval battle. They would require at least 10 with high numbers of Destroyers, frigates etc has support.

    It's a good ship no doubt but 4 ships alone cannot carry a war.

    No one is saying they will. They will form the core of a task force....

    Russian naval forces are intended to defend the Motherland in the event of large scale conflict, so such a task force will operate close to home waters and therefore under the umbrella of both land-based strike aircraft carrying stand-off weapons such as AShMs, and attack subs. A few 1144 orlans operating with escorting destroyers and frigates, and a carrier fitted out for theatre air superiority and anti-sub warfare would be highly effective. Regardless of how impressed the Yankistanis may be with their ponderous CBGs, any attempt at forcing entry into Russian home waters will result in these highly expensive and vulnerable vessels being show-cased on international media when their blazing wrecks are shown hull up, sinking at the bow, with their screws lazily turning in the air...

    We are entering the era of long-range hypersonic and ballistic anti-ship missiles with smart guidance systems, and carriers are the technology of yester-year. They may be potent against 3rd world nations or highly degraded 2nd world nations that lack the ability to defend themselves, but against a peer adversary, supercarriers are big slow vulnerable targets whose survivability will be next to non-existant.

    The USN is already shitting its pants at the idea of challenging Chinas growing A2/AD capabilities in her near-abroad, and Russia will be no different. The loss of just one supercarrier would be utterly DEVASTATING to the Uh'Murikkkan ego, as the USN has long held that its carriers are untouchable by mere mortals. Prove this assertion to be just another example of baseless yankee boasting, and the world will see that the "Exceptional Nation" is naught but a pompous stuffed-shirt...
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:06 pm

    kvs wrote:
    You are lumping all the assets of the US into a single theater.   That is not likely to happen at all.   You also make it sound like all the other
    missile-equipped Russian ships are totally useless.   Face it giant destroyers are dinosaurs like aircraft carriers.   They were relevant for WWII
    and not for missile wars like WWIII.   In fact, having a collection of smaller ships which can carry even more missiles than one big one is vastly
    better since they avoid the "all the eggs in one basket" problem.  

    Russia has the money and is doing the job of overhauling its ships to serve modern purposes.   Many people are still engaged in obsolete thinking.

    Agree (mostly) with this, but one factor to consider is that a large vessel like the an Orlan has unrivalled endurance in a firefight. Not only does nuclear propulsion give her an unlimited range (or station keeping duration in home waters), her large size gives her a larger and more varied ordanance capacity so she can fight harder for longer. Greater displacement allows for heavier radars with greater range, as well as space for additional redundant systems and damage-mitigation/control measures. Distributed lethality is a good concept, but small ships can quickly exhaust their combat potential in a major engagement, and can be removed from the battle line by a single hit from even a lightweight AShM. The presence of a big capital ship like an Orlan will tend to focus the enemies attention, thereby allowing the small ships an opportunity to "get their guns off" so they can make an impact and avoid being disabled early in the engagement.

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:52 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    A1RMAN wrote:So is modernized 1144 potent enough to be a core of Russian fleet against foreign fleets like Turkey, Japan etc. in upcoming decade?

    Surely you are not serious with this question?? The Nakhimov is undergoing deep modernisation of weapons and sensors and comprehensive refurb of her propulsion and marine systems, and once back in service, she will be the most powerful surface combatant (non-carrier) on the planet.  I don't think there is any real doubt that Nakhimov and her sisters-ships are capable of fulfilling such a role.

    Problem is even if they modernize all four and they only confirmed two so far, all four will not be able to be a huge factor in a major naval battle. They would require at least 10 with high numbers of Destroyers, frigates etc has support.

    It's a good ship no doubt but 4 ships alone cannot carry a war.

    No one is saying they will.  They will form the core of a task force....

    Russian naval forces are intended to defend the Motherland in the event of large scale conflict, so such a task force will operate close to home waters and therefore under the umbrella of both land-based strike aircraft carrying stand-off weapons such as AShMs, and attack subs.  A few 1144 orlans operating with escorting destroyers and frigates, and a carrier fitted out for theatre air superiority and anti-sub warfare would be highly effective.  Regardless of how impressed the Yankistanis may be with their ponderous CBGs, any attempt at forcing entry into Russian home waters will result in these highly expensive and vulnerable vessels being show-cased on international media when their blazing wrecks are shown hull up, sinking at the bow, with their screws lazily turning in the air...

    We are entering the era of long-range hypersonic and ballistic anti-ship missiles with smart guidance systems, and carriers are the technology of yester-year.  They may be potent against 3rd world nations or highly degraded 2nd world nations that lack the ability to defend themselves, but against a peer adversary, supercarriers are big slow vulnerable targets whose survivability will be next to non-existant.

    The USN is already shitting its pants at the idea of challenging Chinas growing A2/AD capabilities in her near-abroad, and Russia will be no different.  The loss of just one supercarrier would be utterly DEVASTATING to the Uh'Murikkkan ego, as the USN has long held that its carriers are untouchable by mere mortals.  Prove this assertion to be just another example of baseless yankee boasting, and the world will see that the "Exceptional Nation" is naught but a pompous stuffed-shirt...

    I understand that but I mean okay lets say they have one Kirov class has the core what kind of support ships will it have? Russia currently has few escorts to give to anything they will not be able to field a sizable Blue Water force to challenge say the Us or even China.

    I know some people will say well china stuff is junk but quantity is quality in it's own right enough Chinese ships can sink a upgraded Kirov and what few escorts Russia could spare for it. I know this is also a moot point has russia would mostly stick to shore defense in such a occasion.

    Given their current build rate, one can safely assume they will not have a huge navy anytime soon is all.

    At the same time china's Navy is huge already to the point the US cannot afford to openly challenge it anymore.
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  A1RMAN on Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:32 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote: Russia currently has few escorts to give to anything they will not be able to field a sizable Blue Water force to challenge say the Us or even China.

    It seems that Russian military command understands it. The fleet will probably stick closer to a friendly shore if some big conflict actually happens. With support of Fighter\Bomber\Strategic aviation, coastal AShM's and AA systems.

    If you followed latest news it seems like Russia expects things to get hot on a Far East in near future. They are deploying:
    - New Pantsir and S-400 systems
    - Su-35
    - New strategic aviation unit
    - Adm. Nakhimov is rumored to go to Pacific Fleet when it's ready

    Especially sending Nakhimov there. I think it would be natural choice to exchange Nakhimov with PtG, for the time PtG is in modernization and Northern Fleet is weakened (even more weakened by Kuznetsov going for repair and mods too). Seems like Fleet Command thinks Far East is more important.
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:17 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:.....

    Problem is even if they modernize all four and they only confirmed two so far, all four will not be able to be a huge factor in a major naval battle. They would require at least 10 with high numbers of Destroyers, frigates etc has support.

    It's a good ship no doubt but 4 ships alone cannot carry a war.

    There are two scenarios:

    1) War against countries that can be incinerated by this ship alone

    2) War against countries that are too big for any Navy, where these (and other) ships will be redundant and which will be over in 20 minutes-for everyone on the planet.

    So this ship definitely has a purpose and that purpose lies in scenario no. 1
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:16 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:.....

    Problem is even if they modernize all four and they only confirmed two so far, all four will not be able to be a huge factor in a major naval battle. They would require at least 10 with high numbers of Destroyers, frigates etc has support.

    It's a good ship no doubt but 4 ships alone cannot carry a war.

    There are two scenarios:

    1) War against countries that can be incinerated by this ship alone

    2) War against countries that are too big for any Navy, where these (and other) ships will be redundant  and which will be over in 20 minutes-for everyone on the planet.

    So this ship definitely has a purpose and that purpose lies in scenario no. 1

    Well then I vote we test her out on good old ukraine.

    I am sure it will serve Russia well in the future, I agree with modernizing them Russia needs ships right now and at the current pace of building everything they can get helps frankly, I would have went with three over two. Since the first one (forget its namesake) is said to be a floating nuclear disaster.

    If supported well but other surface vessels ships like these are very good to have the only problem is like stated right now Russia cannot support such a task force well enough far away from home for prolonged periods of time.
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:56 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    I understand that but I mean okay lets say they have one Kirov class has the core what kind of support ships will it have? Russia currently has few escorts to give to anything they will not be able to field a sizable Blue Water force to challenge say the Us or even China.

    I know some people will say well china stuff is junk but quantity is quality in it's own right enough Chinese ships can sink a upgraded Kirov and what few escorts Russia could spare for it.


    Not sure why Russia would ever need to challenge China? Far more likely is that Russia will field naval assets in SUPPORT of China in a regional confrontation between the PRC navy and the USN. Russia should (and in fact are) working assiduously to deepen the alliance with the PRC, and as this develops (eg mutual defense pact, equipment inter-operability, technology exchanges), Russia can begin to count PRC naval assets as their own (and vice-versa), considering that any large conflict will likely involve Russia and China on the same side.

    Russias position should be to support China in their stance on the South China Sea, and to deploy a token naval presence in support of her ally. Now THAT will make the feckless Yankistani war-mongers stand up and take notice! Twisted Evil
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:10 am

    There seems to be two distinct VLS designs for Kalibre/Klub/Oniks/Zircon etc.  The 3R-14UKSK-Kh is a 4-missile module based on a closed cylindrical housing, while the 3S-14 looks to be a 8-missile module based on a open structure.

    The Nakhimov upgrade is using 3S-14 modules, and this is confirmed from public domain details of the purchase orders placed on the manufacturer.  The 3S-14 is also used on the Gorshkov & Grigorovich class judging by photos showing the lifting of the VLS module during vessel builds.

    Possibly the 3S-14 is a redesign to simply the launcher?  

    BTW the equivalent submarine VLS for the Yasen class is an altogether different design.  A possible config is given this article described as SM-315 (?).  This design could clearly be downsized to suit the available space in a Pr-494 Antei launch tube.



    Finally, there are four (4) Kirovs available, but the Navy hasn't yet committed to rebuild either the Lazarev or Ushakov. My view is that there is no rush on making this decision, and the Lazarev at least will depend on the success of AdN and PtG. Lazarev looks to be in good structural condition, though Ushakov is said to have major reactor issues and the cost of rebuild may prove to be prohibitive.

    Interestingly, the hull of the Ural SSV-33 is AFAIK still preserved after her radars and superstructure was deleted. Its possible that she is being retained for a possible future rebuild?
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:44 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:There seems to be two distinct VLS designs for Kalibre/Klub/Oniks/Zircon etc.  The 3R-14UKSK-Kh is a 4-missile module based on a closed cylindrical housing, while the 3S-14 looks to be a 8-missile module based on a open structure.

    The Nakhimov upgrade is using 3S-14 modules, and this is confirmed from public domain details of the purchase orders placed on the manufacturer.  The 3S-14 is also used on the Gorshkov & Grigorovich class judging by photos showing the lifting of the VLS module during vessel builds.

    Possibly the 3S-14 is a redesign to simply the launcher?  

    BTW the equivalent submarine VLS for the Yasen class is an altogether different design.  A possible config is given this article described as SM-315 (?).  This design could clearly be downsized to suit the available space in a Pr-494 Antei launch tube.



    Finally, there are four (4) Kirovs available, but the Navy hasn't yet committed to rebuild either the Lazarev or Ushakov.  My view is that there is no rush on making this decision, and the Lazarev at least will depend on the success of AdN and PtG.  Lazarev looks to be in good structural condition, though Ushakov is said to have major reactor issues and the cost of rebuild may prove to be prohibitive.

    Interestingly, the hull of the Ural SSV-33 is AFAIK still preserved after her radars and superstructure was deleted.  Its possible that she is being retained for a possible future rebuild?

    No they are scrapping that thing, they did take some parts for it to repair other nuclear warships. However the ship is to be disposed of within the Bay of Bolshoy Kamen in the Primorsky region by November 30, 2017.
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    Lazarev at least will depend on the success of AdN and PtG.

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:25 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    No they are scrapping that thing, they did take some parts for it to repair other nuclear warships. However the ship is to be disposed of within the Bay of Bolshoy Kamen in the Primorsky region by November 30, 2017.

    I know is supposed to be scrapped by 2017, but it doesn't LOOK like a ship that is being broken up. It looks like a ship that has had her non-essential superstructure stripped awaiting a final decision on what to do with her.

    Consider the following pic from 25 Mar 2016:


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  gaurav on Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:17 am

    Big_Gazza wrote: A possible config is given this article described as SM-315 (?)

    Can some user provide a link to this article. What is this SM-315. It could point out to be a different launcher from UKSK series.
    Russian navy wants to prioritize UKSK but some ships/subs are not getting UKSK . This may well be the actual reason for 'not'
    deploying UKSK across the board.

    Now there is another question regarding Pr949 series .. will they modernized by changing the current  granit launchers to this
    particular launchers ..I dont think so the re-work will be huge ..
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:00 pm

    gaurav wrote:
    Can some user provide a link to this article.

    The link to the article:

    http://alternathistory.com/otechestvennye-protivokorabelnye-rakety-udar-iz-pod-vody-chast-3-ya
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  gaurav on Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:40 pm

    Thats pretty huge data in that link.It actually shows the historical progress of soviet navy rather than the Russian navy.
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  zg18 on Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:30 am

    "Admiral Nakhimov" modernization

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:08 am

    zg18 wrote:"Admiral Nakhimov" modernization


    Dang, i thought they were further along, looks like we wont see this ship in service till at least late 2020.
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:17 pm

    Cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" back in operation until 2020

    Repair and modernization of the deep heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" will be completed at the shipyard "Sevmash" until 2020, told Tass representative of the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Russian Ministry of De-fence for the Navy Igor Dygalo.

    "In accordance with the plan of the factory makes replacement and upgrade the ship's life support systems, electronic weapons, the ship's energy systems modernization plan also provides for the replacement of complex missile and artillery weapons "Admiral Nakhimov ", - said the source.

    According to Dygalo, after the upgrade, which began in 2014, the ship will have an entirely new tactical and technical characteristics, and significantly enhance the potential of the surface forces of the Russian Navy.

    I should add that in the process of deep modernization of "Admiral Nakhimov" will be armed with the latest hypersonic missiles "Zircon". In 2015, the "RG" reported that the "Sevmash" ordered to "Admiral Nakhimov" 10 universal vertical launchers. According to the technical requirements, they will be further developed for use in their rockets 3K-14, 3M55, 3K-22, 9K (respectively, "Caliber", "Onyx", "Zircon").

    Each launcher holds eight missiles, so after upgrading the cruiser will carry 80 anti-ship missiles of various types. Now the "Admiral Nakhimov" armed with 20 Soviet "Granit" in individual launchers.

    https://rg.ru/2017/01/13/reg-szfo/krejser-admiral-nahimov-vernetsia-v-stroj-do-2020-goda.html


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  A1RMAN on Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:49 pm

    George1 wrote:
    ..and artillery weapons


    Hmm.. I wonder what artillery weapons they gonna use? I doubt it's gonna be Coalition, but would be good.
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:08 am

    Suitably vague... they could mean replacing AK-630 turrets with Duet and Pantsir, or it could be a change from 130mm guns to 152mm guns...

    The difference in performance would be rather significant with the 25km range of the 130mm guns being upgraded to the 70km range with guided shells of the Coalition...

    Actually we have not seen a new improved modernised 130mm gun mount so far... most have centred around 100mm guns and 76.2mm guns and 57mm guns in new stealthy turrets...


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  miroslav on Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:32 am

    GarryB wrote:Actually we have not seen a new improved modernised 130mm gun mount so far... most have centred around 100mm guns and 76.2mm guns and 57mm guns in new stealthy turrets...

    Isn't that the 130mm A-192M, the gun of the Adm. Gorshkov class.
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:22 am

    Well duh!!! Embarassed

    You are quite right.

    they are cascading the calibres... where previously a light gun boat might have a 57mm gun and a corvette will have a 76.2mm gun and a frigate will have a 100mm gun and a destroyer or cruiser will have a 130mm gun a light patrol boat will have a 57mm gun, a corvette will have a 100mm gun the weight of a 76.2mm gun and the frigate will have a 130mm gun... the question is what will the destroyer and cruiser sized vessels have.

    The interesting thing is that new guided shells for the 57mm gun will make it rather more effective in many roles... there is talk in the Army to replace the 30mm cannon in the IFV role and also in the air defence role because where the 57mm lacks in rate of fire it makes up in hitting power and accuracy especially against small targets.

    For the Navy the arguments are similar... a very small target needs a direct hit with a 30mm cannon shell as they are generally too small for a proximity fuse. If you picture a 5m by 5m square of target cardboard at 2-3km range a 200 round 30mm cannon burst would randomly puncture the cardboard in several places but there is plenty of empty space left on that target for a cruise missile to sneak through. in comparison a guided 57mm shell with a proximity fuse is much more likely to get close enough to bring even a very small target down without having to fire hundreds of rounds.

    the 57mm gun is much heavier than a 30mm gatling gun mount but if it only needs 500 rounds on the mount to do a good job compared with thousands of rounds of 30mm shells it can overall be lighter and more compact.

    This means that a Corvette could give up its 30mm cannons for a 57mm dual purpose gun, but also has the potential to see Cruisers replacing their 30mm cannon mounts with 57mm guns too to be used together with 152mm gun mounts.

    having said that any technology that can be fitted to the 57mm shells could just as easily be fitted to 76.2mm or 100mm or 130mm or even 152mm shells. Having a fully automatic twin barrel 152mm CIWS that can reach out a dozen kms would be very interesting...


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  hoom on Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:08 am

    There are CAD drawings of a naval twin Koalition kicking around the place.

    Being they are from back when they were still looking to make the land version twin & that changed to single barrel it's probably a no-go but would be pretty cool.

    The equipment list http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1124199.html doesn't seem to include even the A-192 so it might just keep its existing mount (or have no gun?)
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Militarov on Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:Well duh!!!  Embarassed

    You are quite right.

    they are cascading the calibres... where previously a light gun boat might have a 57mm gun and a corvette will have a 76.2mm gun and a frigate will have a 100mm gun and a destroyer or cruiser will have a 130mm gun a light patrol boat will have a 57mm gun, a corvette will have a 100mm gun the weight of a 76.2mm gun and the frigate will have a 130mm gun... the question is what will the destroyer and cruiser sized vessels have.

    The interesting thing is that new guided shells for the 57mm gun will make it rather more effective in many roles... there is talk in the Army to replace the 30mm cannon in the IFV role and also in the air defence role because where the 57mm lacks in rate of fire it makes up in hitting power and accuracy especially against small targets.

    For the Navy the arguments are similar... a very small target needs a direct hit with a 30mm cannon shell as they are generally too small for a proximity fuse. If you picture a 5m by 5m square of target cardboard at 2-3km range a 200 round 30mm cannon burst would randomly puncture the cardboard in several places but there is plenty of empty space left on that target for a cruise missile to sneak through. in comparison a guided 57mm shell with a proximity fuse is much more likely to get close enough to bring even a very small target down without having to fire hundreds of rounds.

    the 57mm gun is much heavier than a 30mm gatling gun mount but if it only needs 500 rounds on the mount to do a good job compared with thousands of rounds of 30mm shells it can overall be lighter and more compact.

    This means that a Corvette could give up its 30mm cannons for a 57mm dual purpose gun, but also has the potential to see Cruisers replacing their 30mm cannon mounts with 57mm guns too to be used together with 152mm gun mounts.

    having said that any technology that can be fitted to the 57mm shells could just as easily be fitted to 76.2mm or 100mm or 130mm or even 152mm shells. Having a fully automatic twin barrel 152mm CIWS that can reach out a dozen kms would be very interesting...

    152mm CIWS? Laughing

    Replacing 30mm CIWS is very unlikely, 57mm ammunition is wastly more expensive even when you pass it though value-cost. 57mm ammunition has number of advantages but cost is not one of them and cost is main issue with RuNAV to start with. Now 57mm cannons replacing AK-630s in future, sure i see that as plausible, but hybird systems gun-missile very doubtful.

    Today you can make very complex fused 30mm ammunition too, age when it required at least 50+ mm calibers are gone.
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Militarov on Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:47 pm

    hoom wrote:There are CAD drawings of a naval twin Koalition kicking around the place.

    Being they are from back when they were still looking to make the land version twin & that changed to single barrel it's probably a no-go but would be pretty cool.

    The equipment list http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1124199.html doesn't seem to include even the A-192 so it might just keep its existing mount (or have no gun?)

    Germans tried adapting Phz-2000 for naval use but determined its very hard to offer adequate salt/rust protection for system.
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    hoom

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  hoom on Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:36 am

    In a piece of epic German Engineering they put a largely unmodified Pz-2000 turret on a ship.

    To their great surprise but not to anyone with a clue, the marine environment caused corrosion issues  Laughing

    The twin Koalition mount however is clearly a Navalised mount -> would expect it to be appropriately reworked for corrosion resistance (&/or not need it if the Koalition project was intended to be used for a naval mount from the start?)
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Militarov on Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:51 am

    hoom wrote:In a piece of epic German Engineering they put a largely unmodified Pz-2000 turret on a ship.

    To their great surprise but not to anyone with a clue, the marine environment caused corrosion issues  Laughing

    The twin Koalition mount however is clearly a Navalised mount -> would expect it to be appropriately reworked for corrosion resistance (&/or not need it if the Koalition project was intended to be used for a naval mount from the start?)

    That was at the start, later that same turret was removed and Oto Melara gun replaced it, then same that turret was repainted in some grayish marine paint and salt resistance tests were performed and they decided to give up on integration even in future due to i use citation here: "adapting all of the equipment in the PzH 2000 turret for the corrosive naval environment proved more difficult than expected ".

    I think they actually decided its not worth the trouble.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

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