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    Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Naval Fan on Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:24 am

    (IMHO) why doesn't the Russian Navy decide to add the K-77 high accuracy missiles as a medium range defence? And i personally think the 203 mm gun would be the perfect weapon for the Russian Navy.

    A fleet of Admiral Nakhimov, Kuznetsoz, 2 Leader class destroyers, and a couple of Gorshkov frigates would make a pretty decent surface fleet.


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Naval Fan on Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:29 am

    GarryB wrote:This will be very interesting.

    I suspect certain choices are obvious like the UKSK launcher bins for Calibre/Oniks/Yakhont/Moskit/Klub series AShM/LACM/ASW missiles.

    Replacing Kashtan with Pantsir-S1 is logical, and Duet for the AK-630 gun turrets, while the SAM arrangement will also be interesting with the question of Redut probably replacing Rif and Rif-M, but will there be an upgraded TOR or just more Redut bins, and will they install Morfei. Another question regarding SAMs is will it carry naval S-500... or should I ask will naval S-500 be ready by 2018 or will it be added later? Will it be fitted to be able to carry a Ka-52 as well as Ka-32s and will other UAVs be added?

    Otherwise the electronics and sensors and indeed powerplant might be a good indication of the sort of thing they will be putting on the Kuznetsov too.

    I suspect a simpler power system might be worth looking at based on the new compact reactors they are developing for carriers, which should be smaller and more compact than the current boiler reactor arrangement.

    Finally the guns... will it retain 130mm or go for 152mm or will there be a surprise and the 152s are for the Frigates and the new cruisers might be 203mm?

    I suspect the 152s are probably long enough ranged to make them very useful with perhaps two twin turrets on the upgraded vessels and lots and lots of ammo.

    Very good news all round.

    Your 203 mm gun idea is an extremly good idea, as it would have a heavier shell, a longer range, and would be the largest gun on the ocean, taking the largest gun on a surface ship. Do you think a naval version K-77 is possible, and would it be a good idea?

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Mike E on Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:34 am

    No reason why it wouldn't be possible... The question is why bother when the Russian fleet has or will soon have equal or even superior AA missiles on-board? 

    The only change needed would be a quick-burning booster stage to help it gain velocity.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Naval Fan on Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:04 am

    Mike E wrote:No reason why it wouldn't be possible... The question is why bother when the Russian fleet has or will soon have equal or even superior AA missiles on-board? 

    The only change needed would be a quick-burning booster stage to help it gain velocity.

    Thanks for that, one more question

    Would you know if the Slava class are getting a refit?

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:28 am

    When you say K-77, do you mean surface launched R-77 ARH AAM?

    Actually I think it might happen the other way around with S-350 missiles being adapted for air to air use...

    I also agree that for larger ships that a 203mm gun with all the upgrades applied to the 152mm Koalition Army and Naval gun complex would be worth the cost.

    You could even build a landing vessel with two twin 203mm guns on its middle so it could fire to support the troops it delivers... give it a few thousand guided shells so it can operate for weeks supporting the troops.

    Cruisers could also have them...

    Would you know if the Slava class are getting a refit?

    I would assume a modest upgrade for now with a more serious potential upgrade later on.



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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:28 pm

    Heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" is ready for the hot work

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:08 pm

    George1 wrote:Heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" is ready for the hot work

    Epic translation.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:00 pm

    An interesting set of photos of heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" project 11442 in "Sevmash".








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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:33 pm

    For fun I drew another possible potentially very expensive descendant design of the kirov, a railgun carrying battlecruiser.

    Possible names for it's class would be after heroic russian battles:
    Poltava
    Borodino
    Ismail
    Novorossiysk
    Odessa
    Stalingrad
    Minsk
    Sinop
    Kaliakria
    Gangut


    It's speed:32kn

    Armament:
    2x203mm conventional cannon
    2x2 305mm EM guns
    48 UKSK launchers
    Redut
    S-500
    5x Palash, 5x Pantsir CIWS or theoretical future 45mm twin  3 barrelled gatling CIWS "Vyaz"
    paket

    The 305mm ones are EM cannons capable of firing projectiles to 300km and 570km rocket assisted. As for guns arent as accurate as missiles it can fire guided shells too at a fraction of the price of a full blown missile.If that isn't enough it has 6 UKSK cells. Keep in mind the guns can be replaced with extra UKSK VLSs in an alternate version, leaving the still very potent conventional 203mm turret(120-150km range with rocket assisted shells) . Unlike other modern ships it also has armor. Not WW2 steel belts but thick composite modern tank armor also rienforced by carbon nanotubes and fullerite, capable of protecting it from FAE blasts and close(but not direct) tactical nuclear detonations. It's spacious interior makes it very hard for narrow HEAT blasts to do much damage to it unless a critical area is hit(very unlikely). Combined with massive shore bombardment potential and heavy armor(forget about Bereg doing any damage to it) it would be the most effective ship in supporting amphibious landings.

    Do you like it and think it would be a useful asset in modern naval combat?

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  runaway on Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:20 pm

    Interesting, it seems that with railgun tech, guns are coming back. I dont see a immediate need for this type of ship, but as a partner to Mistral or Ivan green it would be useful.
    As for naming i would suggest John Paul Jones, Rear admiral, active with the Black Sea Fleet after the American Revolution...


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  chicken on Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:39 am


    Is this Nakhimov prior to being put into drydock? or is it Kirov being scrapped?

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:51 pm

    runaway wrote:Interesting, it seems that with railgun tech, guns are coming back. I dont see a immediate need for this type of ship, but as a partner to Mistral or Ivan green it would be useful.
    As for naming i would suggest John Paul Jones, Rear admiral, active with the Black Sea Fleet after the American Revolution...

    Such a ship would be able to provide much cheaper and frequent fire support at almost the same range. My battleship would be able to hit the entire black sea coast and aegean. Cruise missiles wouldn't be a substitute for long range shore bombardment since they're too expensive, not enough of them, and wouldn't have a lot of morale impact.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:54 am

    chicken wrote:
    Is this Nakhimov prior to being put into drydock? or is it Kirov being scrapped?
    replacing the granit launchers with the new vls??

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Ugen on Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:55 am

    chicken wrote:Is this Nakhimov prior to being put into drydock? or is it Kirov being scrapped?

    Its Kirov, Nakhimov is in dry dock since October 2014

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  George1 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:24 am

    Equipment of "Admiral Nakhimov" dismantled by December

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:28 am

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1282949.html

    So timeline on Nakhimov keeps being pushed back. This time to 2019.

    Also, funny how there was all this speculation by a poster a few pages ago about how Zvezda would handle the Lazarev supposedly later this decade, after the modernization project is complete.
    Anyone been following the news about the extent to which the project is leaking (see: thieving) money?
    Wink


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:07 am

    TR1 wrote:http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1282949.html

    Anyone been following the news about the extent to which the project is leaking (see: thieving) money?
    Wink


    That's your specialty isn't it ?

    And the link above is about manning levels and contract soldiers

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:15 am

    The link is about Nakhmimov, which is not anywhere near the Zvezda project.


    However I am talking about the prospect of Lazarev being modernized @ Zvezda-DCSS after that project and its expanded space is completed.
    The details that are coming out make the kool-aid on the previous page of this thread all the sadder to read.


    Oops, you mean the link is wrong.
    Here is the right one, about Nakhimov. Just talking about the same thing George posted.

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150428/1061369983.html

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:25 am

    There's nothing about money going missing in either link (yours or Goerge's)...it says the work is expected to last up to 2019....was it meant to be quicker? I can't remember

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:35 am

    Cyberspec wrote:There's nothing about money going missing in either link (yours or Goerge's)...it says the work is expected to last up to 2019....was it meant to be quicker? I can't remember

    Right, the link is about Nakhimov. Original date was 2018, not 2019.


    The Zvezda details I mentioned have nothing to do with that.
    However some folks @ Balancers have been feeding details, that lets just say, are not encouraging to the on-time and on-budget completion of Zvezda-DCSS.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:50 am

    We'll have to wait and see I guess.

    I stumbled on a report on corruption in the Pacific Fleet about stollen fuel...but at least the prosecutors seem to be doing their job


    Last year, with the ships of the Pacific Fleet bases and stole more than 1.4 thousand tons of fuel, damage to the Navy from these actions is estimated at almost 50 million rubles

    This was stated by the prosecutor general of the Russian Federation Full State Counselor of Justice Yuri Chaika, in his report "On the state of law in the country", which he submitted to the Federation Council on Tuesday, 28 April reports Lenta.ru.

    Chaika said that all the facts of the case are being investigated criminal cases, involving 24 officers and 14 civilian personnel.

    Speaking about the situation with corruption in the Armed Forces, the Attorney General said that in 2014, military prosecutors revealed 1896 crimes related to corruption. At the top of the list are appropriation, embezzlement, fraud, and forgery. Total damage caused by the armed forces of corruption, has exceeded 7 billion rubles. In the criminal charges brought against 713 officers, 257 officers have been convicted. Also Yuri Chaika said that the supervisory authority has prevented damage to the State amounting to 1.5 billion rubles. This has been achieved by the suppression of criminal activity when paying developmental works, supply of coal at higher prices and payment outsourcing services of OAO "Slavjanka"

    http://flot.com/2015/193011/

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:17 am

    Right, the link is about Nakhimov. Original date was 2018, not 2019.

    I consider you a fairly smart person... why do you find such basic concepts so hard to understand?

    It is called management... there is no magic involved.

    You look at what needs to be done and what resources you have to do it and you plan out how long it will take and you set deadlines.

    When things like a global economic down turn and sanctions from the west and the US and the Ukraine happen they effect all sorts of aspects of almost all programmes... whether it is because this or that part now needs to be sourced from somewhere else or because the people who might be tasked with the job now have to install things in other programmes because those items are no longer going to be sourced from the Ukraine... or it could be that there is less money available and so plans need to be changed.

    The date was not changed by Putin to annoy you personally.


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:17 pm

    The date was not changed by Putin to annoy you personally.

    He is watching every step of TR1 and feels the same hatred against him.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:15 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Right, the link is about Nakhimov. Original date was 2018, not 2019.

    I consider you a fairly smart person... why do you find such basic concepts so hard to understand?

    It is called management... there is no magic involved.

    You look at what needs to be done and what resources you have to do it and you plan out how long it will take and you set deadlines.

    When things like a global economic down turn and sanctions from the west and the US and the Ukraine happen they effect all sorts of aspects of almost all programmes... whether it is because this or that part now needs to be sourced from somewhere else or because the people who might be tasked with the job now have to install things in other programmes because those items are no longer going to be sourced from the Ukraine... or it could be that there is less money available and so plans need to be changed.

    The date was not changed by Putin to annoy you personally.

    I am not sure what this response has to do with my post, to be honest.
    I thought it was obvious the original Nakhimov dates would not be kept from the start. It is neither surprising nor terribly upsetting.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  George1 on Sat May 30, 2015 1:33 pm

    Navy: the modernization of the cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" will end in 2018

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