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    Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

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    xeno
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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  xeno on Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:20 am

    oh dear, it is Calibre, not "movement".
    Viktor, sometimes you should use Yandex translator.
    Generally speaking google is better than Yandex( it is a shame that Russian cannot make a better translator than Americans'), however, sometimes Yandex can do a better job...

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:47 am

    Cyberspec wrote:It will probably depend on how well the upgrade turns out whether a second one gets upgraded

    By the sound of it after Nakhimov, Peter the Great will go in for repairs and modernization. By the time it comes out of the shop it will be 2020 or later.....by that point the others will be scrap metal, 99% sure.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:05 am

    It would be 200% complete idiocy not upgrade the remaining kirovs escpecially when the Russian navy can't build more big ships until another 20-30 years.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:20 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:It would be 200% complete idiocy not upgrade the remaining kirovs escpecially when the Russian navy can't build more big ships until another 20-30 years.

    You gonna foot the bill?
    The Lazarev and Kirov are in shit shape.

    Who said Russia needs to build new ships that big?

    10-12k ton ships are doable within the next 10 years and more than enough.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:04 am

    P-700 cells were 20. I thought UKSK launchers would be more or at least 20

    The original angled launch tubes held only one missile so with 20 tubes it could carry 20 missiles.

    There seems to be room for 10 UKSK launchers... each UKSK launcher has 8 tubes so instead of carrying 20 Granits it will be able to carry as many as 80 Onyx missiles.

    It will probably depend on how well the upgrade turns out whether a second one gets upgraded

    This is very true... if it goes well and creates a very powerful and very useful ship then they might consider upgrading as many as they can. If it is a terrible failure they might revise the upgrade to be more modest and only upgrade the two they probably think they need.

    Interesting - missile complex "Movement"

    Movement is the English translation of Kalibr... the 2,500km range land attack cruise missile.

    By the sound of it after Nakhimov, Peter the Great will go in for repairs and modernization. By the time it comes out of the shop it will be 2020 or later.....by that point the others will be scrap metal, 99% sure.

    I rather suspect they might keep maintaining the remaining hulls just in case they are wanted.

    It would be 200% complete idiocy not upgrade the remaining kirovs escpecially when the Russian navy can't build more big ships until another 20-30 years.

    The Russian ship yards are getting ready to build very large oil tankers and natural gas carriers... and in the 2020s will likely make carriers so I think your estimate of 20-30 years is wide of the mark.

    The Lazarev and Kirov are in shit shape.

    Most of the components will be replaced... it is like my favourite hammer... it has only had two new heads and three new handles. The bits that are no good are being replaced with new standardised components that will be common throughout the fleet, which should make them cheaper and easier to operate than ever before.



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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:54 am

    Lazarev is technically in "reserve" but we can see what awful shape the ship is in, and the direction it is heading in. In another 5 years it will look even worse.

    Peter the Great will need its first "serious" repairs later this decade. If they try to reactivate all 4, chances are it will serious interrupt Peter the Great's and Nakhimov lives (only Sevmash can work on them), not to mention impact new shipbuilding.

    Price is even more problematic because the other two are in much worse shape from the get-go than Nakhimov, which has actually been preserved.

    Everything (and all insider sources) point to the other two ships being dead men. You guys can bump this in 6 years when I will be right Wink.

    EDIT: But honestly I am ok with it. Two ships of that size and expense are enough.

    EDIT 2: Also what is intersting is what modernization Peter the Great is getting. It already has longer range Fort, so I am guessing Redut-Poliment in this case will involve 48N6 sized missiled. Should be a great combo with the 9M96s.
    Also curious what they will do about the forward Kinzhal battery, which was never actually fitted.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  George1 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:51 pm

    TR1 wrote:Lazarev is technically in "reserve" but we can see what awful shape the ship is in, and the direction it is heading in. In another 5 years it will look even worse.

    Peter the Great will need its first "serious" repairs later this decade. If they try to reactivate all 4, chances are it will serious interrupt Peter the Great's and Nakhimov lives (only Sevmash can work on them), not to mention impact new shipbuilding.

    Price is even more problematic because the other two are in much worse shape from the get-go than Nakhimov, which has actually been preserved.

    Everything (and all insider sources) point to the other two ships being dead men. You guys can bump this in 6 years when I will be right Wink.

    EDIT: But honestly I am ok with it. Two ships of that size and expense are enough.

    EDIT 2: Also what is intersting is what modernization Peter the Great is getting. It already has longer range Fort, so I am guessing Redut-Poliment in this case will involve 48N6 sized missiled. Should be a great combo with the 9M96s.
    Also curious what they will do about the forward Kinzhal battery, which was never actually fitted.

    i agree, modernization of 2 such ships are enough. I wonder what other use would be for the other 2 Kirovs, perhaps could be converted to electronic warfare ships with a reasonable cost?

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm

    George1 wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Lazarev is technically in "reserve" but we can see what awful shape the ship is in, and the direction it is heading in. In another 5 years it will look even worse.

    Peter the Great will need its first "serious" repairs later this decade. If they try to reactivate all 4, chances are it will serious interrupt Peter the Great's and Nakhimov lives (only Sevmash can work on them), not to mention impact new shipbuilding.

    Price is even more problematic because the other two are in much worse shape from the get-go than Nakhimov, which has actually been preserved.

    Everything (and all insider sources) point to the other two ships being dead men. You guys can bump this in 6 years when I will be right Wink.

    EDIT: But honestly I am ok with it. Two ships of that size and expense are enough.

    EDIT 2: Also what is intersting is what modernization Peter the Great is getting. It already has longer range Fort, so I am guessing Redut-Poliment in this case will involve 48N6 sized missiled. Should be a great combo with the 9M96s.
    Also curious what they will do about the forward Kinzhal battery, which was never actually fitted.

    i agree, modernization of 2 such ships are enough. I wonder what other use would be for the other 2 Kirovs, perhaps could be converted to electronic warfare ships with a reasonable cost?

    Scrap yard.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:29 am

    If they want 6 carriers then having 4 cruisers would be useful.

    They could use Slava class ships, but I think Kirov class would be better making the Slava class upgraded vessels available for other duties...


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:22 am

    Repairing and upgrading the 2 more kirovs would be rather cheaper and faster than building cruisers from scratch or using only 2-4 gorshkovs or destroyers per fleet.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:55 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Repairing and upgrading the 2 more kirovs would be rather cheaper and faster than building cruisers from scratch or using only 2-4 gorshkovs or destroyers per fleet.

    Cheaper and faster than building 24,000 ton cruisers, yes.

    But the Russian navy has no plans to build cruisers of that size, not in the foreseeable future, so the point is moot.

    For the price of bringing back Lazarev and Kirov you would get more than 4 Gorshkovs in all likelihood. Given the costs floated so far just for the Nakhimovs technical project, the project ain't cheap.

    Gorshkov frigates are also far far cheaper to operate and require much smaller crew.

    And more useful for most deployments the fleet does. Nakhimov and Peter will be enough for the "flag showing" tours, or to act as task force centerpieces.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:13 am

    Nakhimov and Peter will be enough for the "flag showing" tours, or to act as task force centerpieces.

    I agree... two cruisers is probably enough, though three might be possible.

    With upgraded Slavas they should have pretty good cores for carrier groups... a fixed wing carrier, a Kirov, a Slava, a Mistral, 3-4 destroyers and a few Frigates to round out the force plus support vessels and specialised vessels like ice breakers etc.


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  runaway on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:56 am

    MOSCOW, January 24 (RIA Novosti) – The refit of one of Russia’s four heavy nuclear-powered missile cruisers has begun after years of delays, the country’s largest shipbuilder said Friday.
    The work on the Admiral Nakhimov will revamp its firepower and set the stage for the revitalization of the Russian Navy’s capital ships, which have not been modernized in the post-Soviet era.
    The vessel, formerly named the Kalinin, is one of four Kirov-class missile cruisers, the largest surface combat ships in operation with any navy. Only one of the ships, the Pyotr Veliky, is operational, but Russia plans to return the other three to service starting with the Admiral Nakhimov in 2018.
    Russia also has a single aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, currently deployed in the Mediterranean.

    Sevmash shipyard said in a statement that the schedule for work on the cruiser this year has already been drawn up.

    © RIA Novosti.
    Admiral Kuznetsov. INFOgraphics.
    Heavy equipment is now being removed in order to lighten the ship so it can be moved from its berth into the dockyard with the aid of specially constructed pontoons, Sevmash said.
    The shipyard earlier said that the cruiser would be equipped with P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26) supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles, air defense missiles based on the S-400 Triumf (SA-21 Growler) and close-in weapons systems, which are designed to shoot down missiles and aircraft approaching the ship.

    They still say they plan to modernize the other 3...



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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:34 pm

    It's RIA Novosti. They aren't military experts. Same guys said that the Kh-101 has a 10,000km range.

    My dream would have been to have all 4 Kirovs, all 4 Slavas and the Typhoon subs modernised and returned to service.

    But now the Typhoons are being cut-up for scrap and it looks like some of the Kirovs and Slavas are going to head the same way.
    The dream is dead..

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:42 pm

    Only 1 Slava is being scrapped, and that is the never finished Ukraina.
    The others all have secure futures.

    There are no further Typhoons being scrapped yet (earlier several were of course)...Donskoy is a test ship, and Arkhangelsk and Severstal and chilling near Sevmash while they decide what to do with them.


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GJ Flanker on Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:46 am

    Let's hope they transform all three Typhoons into SSGN's. They could carry over 100 Cruise Missiles each. If they are waiting, I hope they are waiting for the Cirkon-S. That would be the real thing, same goes for the Oscar II SSGN's.

    2 Kirovs are enough, the new destroyers, hopefully nuclear, will have an awesome firepower, so there is no need for more cruisers.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:21 am

    Regarding the Typhoons... most of the ships in the Russian fleet will have UKSK launchers, so three massive subs with UKSK launch bins are probably a little redundant.

    AFAIK there are three surviving Typhoons, one of which is used as a test platform for a range of new things, so they will probably continue to use it for that.

    If they are going to keep the other two for service I would think an upgrade with the brand new compact reactors being developed for cruisers and carriers would improve standardisation and likely performance as well. One could be developed for the super cruise missile carrier role perhaps carrying hundreds of missiles, but I would rather see them developed as ocean research vessels with a range of mini subs and unmanned submersibles and the capacity to carry small navy spetsnaz teams around the place.

    The sub is big enough that its deck could be reconfigured as a flat deck for UAVs and UCAVs that could be launched... perhaps via torpedo tube or surfaced sub, and recovered by surfaced sub or by landing in the water and being recovered by divers and taken down to a submerged sub.

    The potential is very interesting.


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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:38 pm



    Nakhmiov today, work has started.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:39 pm


    Will have been nice a new class ,brand new very Stealthy super Cruiser done from scratch for the pacific fleet . With S-500s ,S-400s ,and Pantirs ,the usual Kalibrs ,4-5-helicopters that could be stored inside , AESA radars but also capability to launch Iskanders-M with up to 2500 km range from the ship ,and screw any arms treaty as China does,
    effectively turning the ship into an all around defense-offense super cruiser ,just for show of power.  Very Happy

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:00 am

    Well, it would be nice if Putin could shit money too, but unfortunately, it's not the case. Wink

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:27 am

    That's why we need someone ruling Russia that has the interest of the working class and people in general instead of the oil sucking capitalists and ruling class, namely the anticapitalists like KPRF, Left party Alternatives, etc. They're made of true patriots who will improve their nation no matter what hardships they endure.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:28 am

    TR1 wrote:Well, it would be nice if Putin could shit money too, but unfortunately, it's not the case. Wink
    He would rather constipate it, or shit it out for some new mansion or superexpensive holiday trips. The the Russian working class on the contrary will do everything they can to improve the countrie's condition.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:29 am

    We already had a party of "the working class".

    No thanks, not again.

    Capitalism ain't the enemy here, its the thieves and law breakers through all levels of government.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:35 am

    TR1 wrote:We already had a party of "the working class".

    No thanks, not again.

    Capitalism ain't the enemy here, its the thieves and law breakers through all levels of government.

    Capitalism isn't a friend either.

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:56 am

    The unification of components in these upgraded cruisers will likely make them much more efficient and cheap to operate, but their effect will be rather striking and of rather more value than a few extra destroyers.

    With improved automation their crews will not be huge and their performance greatly enhanced.

    You can't replace big ships in the navy with smaller ships... it doesn't work that way.

    The Russian Navy is going to be rather smaller than the Soviet Navy and needs effective warships... the Kirovs were excellent vessels even if they did have fairly complicated drive trains.


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