Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    RCS of PAK-FA

    Share
    avatar
    Pierre Sprey

    Posts : 34
    Points : 40
    Join date : 2017-02-01

    Re: RCS of PAK-FA

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:The design of the US aircraft (F-22 and F-35) are 100% compromised on favour of stealth.

    The PAK FA is from the start a stealth fighter hunter... hense it keeps the IRST despite the reduction in stealth, it has long wave radar antennas in its wings.

    Priority number one is manouver performance, stealth is important but it wont be the most stealthy aircraft that wins... when AAMs are defeated by jamming and cannons are the last resort my money would be on the PAK FA and Su-35 and MiG-35 with their cannon.

    hense it keeps the IRST despite the reduction in stealth

    That is just another example of a periphery detail getting totally blown out of proportion. Most people believe that stealth means "achieving invisibility". They've heard that round is not the ideal shape for RCS. Then they reason that the Raptor is invisible and it doesn't have an IRST. Therefore the Pak Fa cant be stealth because it has an IRST.



    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16688
    Points : 17296
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: RCS of PAK-FA

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:11 am

    I see it more about compromise....

    The F-22 does not have an IRST because it is the sniper on the hill shooting at long range at non stealthy enemy targets... it is supercruising using its alttiude and speed to increase the performance of its missiles and hopefully remaining invisible to its enemies.

    Unfortunately for the US technology has moved on and the PAK FA is not a Russian F-22.... it is not supposed to fly into enemy airspace and zip about at mach 1.5 at high altitude zapping enemy fighters as they take off from long range.

    It is intended to hunt stealth aircraft, so it has L band radar to detect aircraft stealthy in X band, it has IRST to detect stealth aircraft of all types it also has X band radar to detect and track all sorts of other targets and threats like AWACS aircraft and tanker aircraft and of course incoming missiles.

    The point is that the F-22 is stealth at all costs which makes it expensive to buy and to operate.

    The PAK FA is designed to shoot down stealth and other aircraft so it can manouver and shoot and find all sorts of targets.

    The PAK FA will be a cheaper aircraft to buy and to operate but will be capable against a much wider range of target types.

    More importantly they wont make 3,000 of them... they will be used together with MiG-35 and Su-35 aircraft and later probably drone aircraft too... another saving.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Pierre Sprey

    Posts : 34
    Points : 40
    Join date : 2017-02-01

    Re: RCS of PAK-FA

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:31 am

    GarryB wrote:I see it more about compromise....

    The F-22 does not have an IRST because it is the sniper on the hill shooting at long range at non stealthy enemy targets... it is supercruising using its alttiude and speed to increase the performance of its missiles and hopefully remaining invisible to its enemies.

    Unfortunately for the US technology has moved on and the PAK FA is not a Russian F-22.... it is not supposed to fly into enemy airspace and zip about at mach 1.5 at high altitude zapping enemy fighters as they take off from long range.

    It is intended to hunt stealth aircraft, so it has L band radar to detect aircraft stealthy in X band, it has IRST to detect stealth aircraft of all types it also has X band radar to detect and track all sorts of other targets and threats like AWACS aircraft and tanker aircraft and of course incoming missiles.

    The point is that the F-22 is stealth at all costs which makes it expensive to buy and to operate.

    The PAK FA is designed to shoot down stealth and other aircraft so it can manouver and shoot and find all sorts of targets.

    The PAK FA will be a cheaper aircraft to buy and to operate but will be capable against a much wider range of target types.

    More importantly they wont make 3,000 of them... they will be used together with MiG-35 and Su-35 aircraft and later probably drone aircraft too... another saving.

    You are making some legit points. As I said, is the Raptor a bit better stealth wise especially all aspect  ? Possibly. Front the front, maybe they are the same. But the tone of your post seems to be that its a closed case that the F-22 has better stealth than the Pak Fa. I dont think there's enough evidence for that.

    I believe the Russians when they say the F-22 ois .03m2 and that they decided to shoot for a 0.05 minimum. The difference between the 2 is 5% to 8%

    Remember. The biggest determining factor in RCS is the shape. And the Pak Fa is 100% ground-up stealth optimized design.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16688
    Points : 17296
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: RCS of PAK-FA

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:19 am

    As I said, is the Raptor a bit better stealth wise especially all aspect ?

    Very likely as we are talking about the ghillie suit for the sniper.

    Their problem is that the Russian sniper has a sniper rifle every bit as good as theirs and has all sorts of electronic thermal and radar systems to detect them.

    Mutual stealth will render long range radar guided AAMs useless and DIRCMs will render short range heat seeking AAMs useless too, so it will come down to turn and shoot with a gun and I think the PAK FA will turn and shoot better...

    Possibly. Front the front, maybe they are the same. But the tone of your post seems to be that its a closed case that the F-22 has better stealth than the Pak Fa. I dont think there's enough evidence for that.

    I think the Raptor probably does have better stealth, but I think both have enough stealth to render AAMs useless... stealth for ARH and DIRCMs for IIR seeking missiels.

    That means it is a gun fight and I know the PAK FA is better equipped for that.

    Remember. The biggest determining factor in RCS is the shape. And the Pak Fa is 100% ground-up stealth optimized design.

    And unlike the Euro canards that want stealth but didn't actually want to pay for it by designing a stealthy design the PAK FA has internal weapons so even fully armed its stealthyness remains... for the eurocanards add a missile and stealth is gone...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Sponsored content

    Re: RCS of PAK-FA

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:32 am