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    US-ISRAEL plan to break S-400. Is this possible?

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    moskit
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    US-ISRAEL plan to break S-400. Is this possible?

    Post  moskit on Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:40 am

    russia The U.S. and Israeli air forces have dealt with surface-to-air missile-defense networks before in Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD) operations. Early SAM suppression missions undertaken by American and Israeli “Wild Weasel” aircraft in the Vietnam and Yom Kippur Wars sometimes delivered results, but also incurred substantial losses. In 1982, Israel launched Operation Mole Cricket 19 targeting Syrian SAM sites using nearly a hundred F-15 and F-4 Phantom fighters supported by E-2 radar planes. In a matter of hours, they succeeded in knocking out thirty Syrian SAM sites without losing a single airplane, demonstrating how a combination of electronic warfare and standoff antiradiation missiles could be used to methodically take apart even an integrated air-defense network.                 http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/syria-the-s-400-the-most-dangerous-game-cat-mouse-earth-20200?page=show                                                                                                       To begin with, U.S. warplanes can launch several types of air-launched antiradiation missiles designed to locate active radar stations, notably the AGM-88 HARM which has a ninety-mile range, and the AGM-158, which can traverse up to six hundred miles on the extended-range variant. These could target the radars an S-400 depends on from beyond its optimal range against fighter-type targets. RC-135W Rivet Joint electronic-warfare planes could also assist in detecting the electromagnetic activity around hostile radar sites, making them easier to eliminate one by one from a distance. A common SEAD tactic is to use forward aircraft to bait the defenders into turning on their radars and opening fire—thereby allowing the antiradar missiles to locate their targets.
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    Re: US-ISRAEL plan to break S-400. Is this possible?

    Post  Benya on Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:06 pm

    moskit wrote:russia The U.S. and Israeli air forces have dealt with surface-to-air missile-defense networks before in Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD) operations. Early SAM suppression missions undertaken by American and Israeli “Wild Weasel” aircraft in the Vietnam and Yom Kippur Wars sometimes delivered results, but also incurred substantial losses. In 1982, Israel launched Operation Mole Cricket 19 targeting Syrian SAM sites using nearly a hundred F-15 and F-4 Phantom fighters supported by E-2 radar planes. In a matter of hours, they succeeded in knocking out thirty Syrian SAM sites without losing a single airplane, demonstrating how a combination of electronic warfare and standoff antiradiation missiles could be used to methodically take apart even an integrated air-defense network.                 http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/syria-the-s-400-the-most-dangerous-game-cat-mouse-earth-20200?page=show                                                                                                       To begin with, U.S. warplanes can launch several types of air-launched antiradiation missiles designed to locate active radar stations, notably the AGM-88 HARM which has a ninety-mile range, and the AGM-158, which can traverse up to six hundred miles on the extended-range variant. These could target the radars an S-400 depends on from beyond its optimal range against fighter-type targets. RC-135W Rivet Joint electronic-warfare planes could also assist in detecting the electromagnetic activity around hostile radar sites, making them easier to eliminate one by one from a distance. A common SEAD tactic is to use forward aircraft to bait the defenders into turning on their radars and opening fire—thereby allowing the antiradar missiles to locate their targets.

    Actually, there is an entire Pantsir-S1/S2 battery protecting the S-400 system, with a mission to shoot down anything threatening the S-400 division/battalion.

    Right after the "Morfey" (Morpheus) SHORAD missile system is accepted to service, it will likely to be issued to S-400 units, so after that, the defenses of the S-400 regiments and brigades will be an even tougher nut to crack.

    Speaking about enemy electronic warfare, I'm pretty convinced that the engineers of Almaz-Antey designed the "Big Bird" target aquisition and "Grave Stone" engagement/fire control radars to withstand enemy ECM well.

    Talking about the defeating of the S-400, I have two scenarios in my mind

    1.) To at least supress the S-400 regiments or brigades (in this case, the mission type is SEAD – as you said, Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses), individual battalions (divisions) or companies (batteries) must be stripped from their radars and/or command posts. Anti-Radiation missiles would be needed to complete this.

    2.) To completely destroy the whole S-400 unit (here, the mission type is DEADDestruction of Enemy Air Defenses). Here, even the launchers must be destroyed. You need both Anti-Radiation (for the radars) and Air-to-Surface missiles (to take good care of anything left (launchers, command posts, communications and crew accomodation vehicles).

    What weapons to use?

    AGM-88 HARM is pretty much outdated against such a high-end SAM system. Using AGM-88E AARGM (Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missile), or as you said AGM-158 JASSM-ER cruise missile would be much more logical.

    If you, as a NATO air forces officer*, really want to carry out a SEAD mission against an S-400 formation, pick a whole squadron of EA-18G "Growler" EW/SEAD/DEAD aircraft based on the famous F/A-18C/D "Super Hornet", or if you are desperate enough to go on a DEAD mission, take an entire wing of them.

    EDIT: As far as I know, only the US has access to most of these weapons, although Israel has its own tricks up in its sleeve.

    *Hypothetically speaking
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    Re: US-ISRAEL plan to break S-400. Is this possible?

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:20 pm

    The US and Israel are very good at taking on IADS systems, they have a lot of practise.

    Their main problem is that the current range of SAMs developed by the Russians and their tactics are based on previous US and Israeli efforts to defeat previous systems.

    Their real problem is that unlike Arab networks a Russian system is not passive and can actually strike back.

    Those Israel attacks on their neighbours would not have been nearly as successful if those neighbours had modern air forces and tactical weapons to strike back at Israel during their attacks.

    Current Russian SAMs are all design to defeat ARMs, and the long range systems are designed to defeat the launch platforms of weapons to make attacks too costly to consider in the first place.

    Unlike the Arab forces the Russians have an air force that can actually cooperate with the IADS and add protection to ground forces in a mutual way so that any attempt to attack will become rather costly... and not just in terms of missiles and UAVs destroyed, but in aircraft and air fields destroyed... and capital cities attacked.


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