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    Syrian War: News #12

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:08 pm

    This was a Syrian air base that did not have Russian forces present as far as I know.

    There are claims the Russians were not warned and that they have now shut down the cooperation hot line that was used to prevent air conflicts when different countries were "using" syrian air space.

    Pantsir on its own could shoot down 2-3 cruise missiles at once for each Pantsir vehicle so a battery could deal with dozens of cruise missiles at one time... S-300 and S-400 would not be used unless the concentration of threats was high enough to warrant their use.

    The Russians likely didn't shoot down any cruise missiles because these cruise missiles were likely routed around their positions so they probably never got close enough to warrant attack.

    A cruise missile could be anything from a low flying attack aircraft to a UAV or UCAV... the Russians have not so far been shoot first and ask questions later in that regard... unlike the US of course.

    Thing is that a fake chem weapon threat was used to invade Iraq... will they try to use the same excuse to invade Syria?

    Most of the reports I have seen so far suggest this is all about ego... Russia is doing well in Syria so the US attacks to try to make US look strong and Russia look bad... wonder how it will turn out... suspect Trump will end up looking red faced... unless they can get a decent makeup guy for him.. Wink
    medo
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    Post  medo on Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:50 am

    max steel wrote:This may interest you : https://twitter.com/inbarspace/status/850386949697404928

    Syrian War: News #12 - Page 11 110


    also here (the same) : https://twitter.com/Bivi_17/status/850438241564192768


    I don't know how much are they reliable given Russian Mod claiming that  out of 59 BGM-109s launched against  Shairat only 23 struck targets. The damage to runway, as was stated as a main objective, is minimal to non-existent. Why 62% of Tomahawks never struck a stationary target? Make your own conclusions. What is known for sure now, is that there were no Pantsir AD complexes around the airbase, neither S-300 or S-400 engaged targets.

    There weren't Russian Pantsirs, S-300 and S-400, but SAA have their own Pantsirs and Buks. Not in large numbers, so they could cover areas with squads, not with full batteries. A squad of SAA pantsirs could be on path of Tomahawks, not around air base. 36 missing Tomahawks could only mean, that a squad of SAA Pantsirs was very effective.
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    Post  medo on Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:56 am

    GarryB wrote:Pantsir on its own could shoot down 2-3 cruise missiles at once for each Pantsir vehicle so a battery could deal with dozens of cruise missiles at one time...

    No, Pantsir have 4 channels to guide 4 missiles on 4 targets. Tomahawks didn't fly all together, but one after another. When missile hit the target, that channel is free to lock another target. With 4 chanels Pantsir could lock and shot down missiles one after another untill all 12 missiles are fired.
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    Post  Teshub on Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:21 am

    Does anybody remember the two (cruise?) missile attack launched by the US towards Damascus in 2013? The closest we got to how the missiles were brought down by the Moskva was:

    "the US forces fired these two rockets from a NATO base in Spain, and were instantly detected by the Russian radars and confronted by the Russian defense systems, so one of them exploded in the airspace and the second one diverted towards the sea."

    I always interpreted this to mean that Russia spoofed GPS signals, and/or overloaded the electronics with a directed radio or microwave attack. We've seen further evidence since then with the black sea event and the recent BUK attachment which provides a 10km defensive zone against incoming missiles.

    So why bother firing expensive missiles from the s300 and s400 systems, when you can use cheap microwaves to take these old birds down? Looks to me like two thirds of the flight self-destructed or crashed from ´directed EW, whilst the rest had to rely on outdated internal guidance and missed.

    Rather than wailing that Russia refused to help by not firing anti-missile missiles, I actually think we can take this as an amazing demonstration of how effective their air defences actually are.

    Regular
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    Post  Regular on Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:15 am

    So as far as I understand that's what happened
    1. Chemical attack (unknown details)
    2. Outcry and Trump admin pressured
    3. Saturational attack as show of force (US used loads of cruise missiles as they thought they will be intercepted)
    4. Low casualties, low damage to airfield and equipment. Russian personel nowhere to be seen.
    5. Trump bashers still not happy, probably because there was no russian casualties (???)
    6. Russian troops are back in the airport and even Syria is operating it like nothing happened

    Wtf is this circus??
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:29 am

    Regular wrote:So as far as I understand that's what happened
    1. Chemical attack (unknown details)
    2. Outcry and Trump admin pressured
    3. Saturational attack as show of force (US used loads of cruise missiles as they thought they will be intercepted)
    4. Low casualties, low damage to airfield and equipment. Russian personel nowhere to be seen.
    5. Trump bashers still not happy, probably because there was no russian casualties (???)
    6. Russian troops are back in the airport and even Syria is operating it like nothing happened

    Wtf is this circus??

    That sounds like US and Russia planned this togather. Russia is annoyed by Assad attacking civilians and Trump needs to be accepted by US citizens so that they don't take him out of the white house.

    There was no major dammage at the air base, Russians were there to monitor the attack with drones, no big diplomatic crises, the visit of US official next week still planned ...
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    Post  higurashihougi on Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:32 am

    No, you didn't lost, it's just you were the last winner lol1 lol1 lol1 lol! lol!

    https://scontent.fsgn5-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17799940_260539104408651_4071419362790732336_n.jpg?oh=45c6ce14d4629026821bfffc00407820&oe=59606AC6

    Anyway, my respect to Bolivia respekt respekt
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:36 am

    No, Pantsir have 4 channels to guide 4 missiles on 4 targets. Tomahawks didn't fly all together, but one after another. When missile hit the target, that channel is free to lock another target. With 4 chanels Pantsir could lock and shot down missiles one after another untill all 12 missiles are fired.

    the export Pantsir likely cannot engage 4 target at one time, and it all depends on the range and direction of the targets too... the system has to be able to track all four targets and guide all four missiles to each target.

    A full battery of vehicles would have a much better chance of dealing with the threat as it would have a command vehicle to manage the defence to ensure it is as effective as possible.

    I agree that the ability to engage 4 targets at once and the very high average speed of the outgoing missiles means the Pantsir is a very capable system engaging all sorts of targets, but they are not perfect and not always on alert 24/7 and of course not always in the right place at the right time.

    Wtf is this circus??

    One claim is that the only assets destroyed were the hangars and a few aircraft that could not be moved because they were under repair... attacking at about 4am means there are few bystanders.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:47 am

    Regular wrote:So as far as I understand that's what happened
    1. Chemical attack (unknown details)
    2. Outcry and Trump admin pressured
    3. Saturational attack as show of force (US used loads of cruise missiles as they thought they will be intercepted)
    4. Low casualties, low damage to airfield and equipment. Russian personel nowhere to be seen.
    5. Trump bashers still not happy, probably because there was no russian casualties (???)
    6. Russian troops are back in the airport and even Syria is operating it like nothing happened

    Wtf is this circus??

    It's 100.000.000$ stupidity designed for local daily political consumption in USA. Probably with some kabuki contribution from Russia.

    Also, signal that war is approaching the end. SAA needs to finish of Idlib and Hama. Kurds will take Raqqa.
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    Post  eehnie on Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:21 am


    This war is very far of the end. Very far. Since 2003, and to continue long time.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:28 am

    Isos wrote:That sounds like US and Russia planned this togather. Russia is annoyed by Assad attacking civilians and Trump needs to be accepted by US citizens so that they don't take him out of the white house.

    There was no major dammage at the air base, Russians were there to monitor the attack with drones, no big diplomatic crises, the visit of US official next week still planned ...

    Are you taking the piss? What utter complete BS....
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:28 pm

    Was looking for this earlier, but couldn't find it.

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    Post  BKP on Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:03 pm

    Is there any concrete evidence for the claim that Russian EW was brought into play during the US missile strike? Assuming it's true that only 23 of 59 tomahawks reached their targets and the rest failed, I can only think of two plausible explanations: EW was in play, or BGM-109 are sh*t.

    The implausible explanation is that the whole thing was planned or staged with Russian cooperation to get T off the hook with his Russiagate antagonists, and to allow the US deep state blow off some butt hurt.
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    Post  Vann7 on Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:48 pm

    BKP wrote:Is there any concrete evidence for the claim that Russian EW was brought into play during the US missile strike? Assuming it's true that only 23 of 59 tomahawks reached their targets and the rest failed, I can only think of two plausible explanations: EW was in play, or BGM-109 are sh*t.

    The implausible explanation is that the whole thing was planned or staged with Russian cooperation to get T off the hook with his Russiagate antagonists, and to allow the US deep state blow off some butt hurt.

    FIrst thing first. .Tomawacks missiles are very very very easy to shutdown ,
    if you have good intelligence and know the path they are flying. THis is because they are very slow flying missiles. So Russia trains a lot to shutdown
    subsonic missiles like tomahacks with combat planes and verba manpads.

    You can easily shutdown them with planes if you know their direction their
    trajectory. take a look how any planes can easily chase them.



    that said , this is 80's technology. They are only good against third world nations but will not have a chance against a country like Russia with all their defenses there. not a chance. For sure the terrorist in homs ,had gps antennas courtesy of NATO to help the guidance of the missiles.

    However they can penetrate any place if fired by surprise attack in big numbers and the air defenses not activated. somewhere i read , Syria S-200s takes 5 minutes to be ready before used. So in that valuable time ,missiles can enter in a surprise attack. Probably the 23 missiles ,that penetrated Syria were the first ones fired but once the defenses started ,they began to be intercepted.

    Syria navy himself intercepted Obama missile attack in 2013 ,where 4 tomahacks were intercepted.

    My best guess is US will continue firing cruise missiles ,using more chemical fake attacks of the CIA , and could fire them from the persian gulf.  So Russia will do good to upgrade Syrian air defenses in Homs and the logistics in IRAQ to warn Syria whenever another attack start.

    The ideal defenses to target cruise missiles are mobile launchers ,
    like Pantsirs and Tors. Cruise missiles will not defeat Syria air defenses,
    because they have mobile defenses.

    Russia supersonic missiles in the other hand can't be defeated by planes or manpads, they fly too fast. and is much more complicated. The Kalibrs missiles Russia use ,they can be configured for supersonic speed at the expense of less range.

    The cruise missiles were supposed to neutralize the base and today is being operational again by Syrian airforce. Laughing

    So they are over rated. They will have no chance to penetrate a country like Russia,China,IRAN with control of all its territory with proper defenses. Venezuela could be turned into an impenetrable zone too ,it have a big land. by Syria only having about 35% control of its territory ,it have significantly decreased its capability to create air defenses that are deep in territory. Ideally it will have been if Syria had air defenses deployed on all its borders. but they do not control the borders with most of its neighbors.
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    Post  franco on Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:34 pm

    Reported Syrian losses to the US cruise missile attack;

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2539567.html
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    Post  zorobabel on Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:11 pm

    Syria will be the place where the 21st century's fate as a unipolar or multipolar order will be decided. If the US can bring down Assad and force Syria into the sphere of Saudi Arabia and Gulf Arab extremism, the West will have gained at least another 2-3 decades of unfettered imperialism.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:26 pm

    zorobabel wrote:Syria will be the place where the 21st century's fate as a unipolar or multipolar order will be decided. If the US can bring down Assad and force Syria into the sphere of Saudi Arabia and Gulf Arab extremism, the West will have gained at least another 2-3 decades of unfettered imperialism.

    Nope...
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    Post  eehnie on Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:22 pm

    franco wrote:Reported Syrian losses to the US cruise missile attack;

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2539567.html

    Then Syria lost:

    6 Su-22
    3 MiG-23
    1 Su-6 (partially)
    1 M-600 iranian surface-surface system
    some artillery pieces

    It seems not a big damage
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    Post  Vann7 on Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:58 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    franco wrote:Reported Syrian losses to the US cruise missile attack;

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2539567.html

    Then Syria lost:

    6 Su-22
    3 MiG-23
    1 Su-6 (partially)
    1 M-600 iranian surface-surface system
    some artillery pieces

    It seems not a big damage

    Look infowars.com

    No idea if truth but The Syrian army is saying they knew of the attacks days before they happened. So they moved their planes from their bases and others too. So probably those planes were broken and did not fly and were left there for distraction.  

    But there is conflicting reports about whether or not US told Russia
    about the attacks before they happened. You have infowars saying they warned Russia 30 minutes before they happen ,but read somewhere
    that Russia denied this.

    What is clear now ,however is that Americans fake war against terrorist in Syria is over ,they no longer are hiding their intentions ,that are in an undeclared war against Syria.. using as pretext the "chemical attacks".

    Is also know clear that the Trump administration was lying when told it
    was going to allow Assad to remain in power. All that was a distraction.
    To later say.. oh we wanted to peace but this chemical incident changed us.
    So it was a lie. The Russian defense ministry says , the attacks were planned weeks earlier. Because those missiles had to be programmed the flight path long before and it was a complex process. That it will have been impossible
    for Trump to order in just 48 hours an attack on that base ,unless the missiles had previously the data a weak earlier the flight path to attack.

    So Trump knew he was going to attack Syria and still REx came to say in
    Turkey just 2 days earlier of the attack that.. "Assad will stay" bla bla bla.. it was a lie. he was acting as if US was going to restore relation with Russia.perhaps it was done ,to mislead Russia and Syria about the intentions of American warships near their coast.



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    Post  auslander on Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:56 pm

    cry

    “Two suicide bombings in Baghdad.12 people died in a blast, many wounded…”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhL5jJ6ua_A
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    Post  Vann7 on Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:08 am

    Since the attack on Syria , is looks like officially the cooperation is over
    between Syria-Russia and US. And they not allowing American planes to fly anywhere close their positions. Reports already about Syrian army firing
    at an american drone flying close to their base.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/report-syrian-army-attacks-us-drone-northeastern-syria/ri19508

    Forcing it to leave.

    in other news.. there are contradictory reports of whether or not
    US warned Russia about the attacks. My bet is they didn't.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:05 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    in other news.. there are contradictory reports of whether or not
    US warned Russia about the attacks. My bet is they didn't.
    The Russians would have had to have been given at least 30 minutes warning as that was the flight time from the destroyers location off Crete.

    The US would have had to have said what the target was because if the Russians had seen the launch of that number of missiles with no idea of where they were headed (at them?) all hell would have let loose.
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    Post  calm on Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:14 am

    Rebel assault on Zuwayqat front was stopped dunno

    Syrian War: News #12 - Page 11 C8-Cut6XsAAwgO5
    Syrian War: News #12 - Page 11 C8-CvKdXsAABUQP
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:20 am

    AFAIK the US said there was an attack, but they didn't say what was being attacked.
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    Post  franco on Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:50 am

    Read that Graham told a TV show that Al Queda absorbing the other Syrian rebels was a good thing as it should dilute the radicalism of Al Queda. Suspect
    Did anyone else hear this? dunno
    I'm afraid I don't care enough to do a search... plus he just raises my blood pressure to hear him or McCain talk. No

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