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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

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    Militarov

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Militarov on Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:42 pm

    Pierre Sprey wrote:

    What will be the primary fighter then ? The F-35 is supposed to be

    Fighter yes, multirole fighter. It wont be main AD tool as long as there are other platforms in existence.
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    Pierre Sprey

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:44 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Pierre Sprey wrote:

    So the US's main AD fighters for the foreseeable future are a discontinued model and a 4th gen ?

    Yes? And?

    Fighter is not a cellphone model to be "discontinued". Certain fighters production ceased 35 years ago and they still fly.

    And Russian main fighter in same role is MiG-31BM. Discontinuned, legacy platform from late 70s. So?

    Papadragon wrote this horse shit : There will be no Su-57 for carriers because by the time they build a carrier (unlikely to even happen) that can launch it Su-57 will be ready for decommission.

    I was responding to that horse shit.

    I think its likely that Russia will have a nuclear carrier by the 2030's. Russia already has the 6th biggest economy, 5th most foreign exchange reserves ect. By then, the multipolar world will be in full swing and Russia will be doing comparatively better than anyone thinks.


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    Militarov

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Militarov on Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:58 pm

    Pierre Sprey wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Pierre Sprey wrote:

    So the US's main AD fighters for the foreseeable future are a discontinued model and a 4th gen ?

    Yes? And?

    Fighter is not a cellphone model to be "discontinued". Certain fighters production ceased 35 years ago and they still fly.

    And Russian main fighter in same role is MiG-31BM. Discontinuned, legacy platform from late 70s. So?

    Papadragon wrote this horse shit : There will be no Su-57 for carriers because by the time they build a carrier (unlikely to even happen) that can launch it Su-57 will be ready for decommission.

    I was responding to that horse shit.

    I think its likely that Russia will have a nuclear carrier by the 2030's. Russia already has the 6th biggest economy, 5th most foreign exchange reserves ect. By then, the multipolar world will be in full swing and Russia will be doing comparatively better than anyone thinks.



    Judging by how things are at this moment... in the 30s.. maybe, i dont think it will be ready during the 20s. IF carrier happens at all, they do have wish to make it, but there are many limitations at this point.

    But as you might imagine, if carrier lets say enters service in 2040s... i dont think PAK-FA will get navalised either. It will be by that time fairly old platform, something else will possibly emerge by then, possibly in form of lighter fighter Russia is talking about for last 10 years.

    Navalised Su-57 could happen, but that quite alot depends on shipbuilding.
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    Pierre Sprey

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:14 am

    Predicting an epically douchey article on the su 57 to appear at The Warzone 3...2...1
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    kvs

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  kvs on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:04 am

    The "Russia can't do technology" chauvinists and their fellow travelers are the real joke. There is no basis for this
    "theory". It is pure wishful thinking. During WWII the USSR was not stalled in terms of technology and Nazi Germany
    utterly failed to field anything to give itself supremacy. Note how the routine revisionist talking points invoke
    General Winter and "human wave" attacks (which were only seen during the Korean war and were a Chinese tactic).
    Anyone with a functional IQ and basic awareness would know that Russia today is more advanced vs. the USA than
    the USSR was wrt to Nazi Germany.

    Bitching about carriers or other crap that Russia does not need does not prove Russian inferiority. It proves the mental
    inferiority of those doing the bitching. Yapping about conventional systems when the real threat is nuclear attack is
    pure inanity. Russia is clearly succeeding in developing and deploying systems (submarines, rockets and warheads) that are critical
    for the task of countering NATO nuclear aggression. Russia does not have 3rd world colonies to cover with protection
    rackets like the USA. Anyone who thinks that Russia needs a fleet of aircraft carriers is detached from reality.

    In case it is not clear enough: Russia will have no need for carriers since it will not need to deploy to South America,
    Africa and South-East Asia. Russia can reach the strategically relevant Middle East and Central Asia without carriers.
    It is also self-evident it has the necessary naval assets to assert itself in the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. American
    aircraft carriers do nothing to negate this. Russian project 636.3 submarines are capable of destroying US carrier groups.
    A detail utterly missed by the RPG players polluting these threads.
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    Pierre Sprey

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:01 am

    ^Russia is the only nation certified to bring man to the Intl Space station.

    Its the only nation other than the US with its own fully functioning global positioning system (GLONASS)

    It has the fastest jet in service today

    Its the only other nation with a 5th gen jet going into service under its own power (J-20 is a Mig 1.44 Im sorry)

    But yeah. Lacks the technology.

    Russia could do supercarriers no problem.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:45 am

    Consider that US exceptionalists considered that a rocket engine using oxygen-rich pre-burners on a closed cycle was an impossibility.  The hot gaseous oxygen would burn thru the engine walls and the oroblems were so formidable they could not be solved.

    Kuznetsov (who had no prior experience with engine building) created the NK-15/33 in the late 60s/early 70s and achieved what the exceptionalists said could not be done.

    Just one little example where the "ignorant" and "backwards" Rusky slavs outperformed the seppo trash.  Lets the stupid Murican cunts delude themselves with their spiteful arrogance.  It will only bite them in the arse.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:07 am

    Pierre Sprey wrote:^Russia is the only nation certified to bring man to the Intl Space station.

    Its the only nation other than the US with its own fully functioning global positioning system (GLONASS)

    It has the fastest jet in service today

    All of these things are legacy Soviet accomplishments​, none of it was achieved in modern day Russia


    Pierre Sprey wrote:Its the only other nation with a 5th gen jet going into service under its own power (J-20 is a Mig 1.44 Im sorry)

    MiG or not, J-20 is up and running and definitely under it's own power


    Pierre Sprey wrote:But yeah. Lacks the technology.

    Technology is there, they lack people in charge who are not complete morons like Trampoline Man


    Pierre Sprey wrote:^Russia could do supercarriers no problem.

    They have as much chances of doing this in next couple of decades as they have chances of successfully completing the most basic space project under Rogozin (AKA no chances whatsoever the fuck no way in hell)
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:19 am

    J-20 is in heavy question of capability, especially since India said they were able to spot it on radar of Su-30MKI from quite the distance while it flew (J-20) in Tibet.

    It also uses modified AL-31 engines.

    Anyway, all this is nothing. We are fighting over what? what was said by somebody that doesn't make the decisions. Instead gave indication that Su-57 may not be massed produced as is because of newer technology coming out. So what? That is good cause it means Russia should concentrate putting money into that instead.

    I personally think it will end up replacing T-10 design. But it wont be same jet in its current configuration.

    If it doesnt, then you guys can bitch. Papadragon thinks everyone in Russia is stupid, but that is also far from the truth. Borisov and the likes were rather very intelligent people.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:22 am

    https://vpk.name/news/221402_lipeck_vyihodit_na_5e_pokolenie_skoro_poluchit_pervyie_su57.html

    Lipetsk goes to 5th generation soon will get the first su-57

    The head of the Lipetsk aviation center, Lieutenant-General Yuri Sushkov today shared with reporters information about the renewal of the aircraft fleet. The General, soon Lipetsk aviatsentr will receive the fighter of the 5th generation su-57.

    Noted that the pilots of the Lipetsk first master piloting fighters of this type after test pilots from the 929 th glits, the Ministry of defense to them.Chkalov. State flight test centre in Akhtubinsk.

    Yuri Sushkov:

    Akhtubinsk — research test centre, who will check the aircraft, its combat survivability and then will recommend in the air force. We get it after them.

    Russian zamglavkoma videoconferencing (commander of the Russian air force) Lieutenant General Yudin called Lipetsk pilots the best pilots of Russia, performing combat tasks of the Ministry of defense of the Russian Federation, including in Syria.

    Su-57, which will be delivered to Lipetsk equipped with engines of the so-called first stage. While tests of the latest fighter jets with engines of the second stage has already begun.

    Meanwhile it became known that the airfield Besovets in Karelia within the framework of the rearmament program got another batch of new fighters of the 4++ generation su-35S. We are talking about the five latest aircraft to the 159th fighter aviation regiment. According to some reports, the aircraft made a flight from Komsomolsk-on-Amur, with several intermediate landings – at military airfields Novosibirsk and Perm regions. Officially, the information about these regions of the intermediate landing with refueling is not currently confirmed. A total of Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft plant (Knaaz) has until the end of the year to take 10 su-35S.
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    Pierre Sprey

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:24 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Pierre Sprey wrote:^Russia is the only nation certified to bring man to the Intl Space station.

    Its the only nation other than the US with its own fully functioning global positioning system (GLONASS)

    It has the fastest jet in service today

    All of these things are legacy Soviet accomplishments​, none of it was achieved in modern day Russia


    Pierre Sprey wrote:Its the only other nation with a 5th gen jet going into service under its own power (J-20 is a Mig 1.44 Im sorry)

    MiG or not, J-20 is up and running and definitely under it's own power


    Pierre Sprey wrote:But yeah. Lacks the technology.

    Technology is there, they lack people in charge who are not complete morons like Trampoline Man


    Pierre Sprey wrote:^Russia could do supercarriers no problem.

    They have as much chances of doing this in next couple of decades as they have chances of successfully completing the most basic space project under Rogozin (AKA no chances whatsoever the fuck no way in hell)

    You seem to be all tied up with some personality politics. Which is kinda horse shit. We can look at more substantive evidence to determine if post Soviet Russia can build supercarriers.

    This right here is the biggest nuclear powered ice breaker in the world. Built by post Soviet Russia.



    This right here is a carrier deck system designed and integrated into a Kiev class ship by post Soviet Russia.



    You can be a dick and laugh. But India has been using this carrier. They did some bitching and groaning about the cost and a few problems. But the thing is in service and works. There are no major problems. It does work despite all the BS that gets said about it. India shows up at the Malabar exercises and does carrier ops with the US. I think the USA and the western propagandists always had a bone to pick with this carrier too. So its probably better than its reputation implies. The US didn't want Russia to be building India carriers.

    Remember this is India we are talking. Its a early developing country. They aren't exactly experts at using modern military equipment. See what they managed to do with one of their top nuclear subs. Yet this carrier works.

    So to tie it back in- yes. Russia will need a naval su 57 because it will have a new carrier by the mid 2030's




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    AMCXXL

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  AMCXXL on Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:01 am

    Pierre Sprey wrote:Here is a table showing the failed and cancelled su 57 vs the F-35


    Nonsense, you cannot compare Su-57 with F-35
    The Su-57 is the counterpart of F-22 by size, capacity and performance
    The Su-57 has not the definitive engine so the real performance is still not known
    F-35: length 15,5m wingspan: 10,5m weigth: 22,5 tn
    F-22: length 19m wingspan: 13,5m weigth: 30 tn
    Su-57; length: 22m wingspan:14m weigth: 35tn



    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201807141553-85bx.htm

    Lipetsk Air Center will receive Su-57 fighters one of the first in the army
    "In the near future we will get a new aircraft - Su-57, which is designed to gain dominance in the air,"  the head of the air center Yuri Sushkov told reporters.

    Fighters of the fifth generation of Su-57 in the near future will go to the disposal of experts of the Lipetsk Air Center, which will receive these aircrafts among the first in the army. The head of the air center Yuri Sushkov told journalists about it.
    "In the near future we will get a new airplane - Su-57, which is designed to gain dominance in the air," said Lieutenant-General.
    Sushkov added that today the air center in Lipetsk is equipped with the best airplanes - Su-35 and Su-30SM.
    The Lieutenant-General also recalled that the Lipetsk Air Center is the foremost connection of the Russian military aviation space, fulfilling the most important and responsible tasks of the army command
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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Isos on Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:54 am

    Russia could do supercarriers no problem.

    The issue is more capacities to build it and money. Not the technology.

    They could have an army with 10 000 t-14, 1000 su-57 in theory and a 20 kuznetsov carriers in theory.
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    George1

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:01 pm

    Russia’s Su-57 plane tests onboard systems for 6th-generation fighter jet — source

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1013337
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    Pierre Sprey

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:47 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Russia could do supercarriers no problem.

    The issue is more capacities to build it and money. Not the technology.

    They could have an army with 10 000 t-14, 1000 su-57 in theory and a 20 kuznetsov carriers in theory.

    Money wont be an issue in 10 years. It isn't now. Its just that Russia is being super conservative and is planning for the monetary reset of the world economy. After the reset, the haves and have nots will not be determined by how close you are to the US empire. It will be determined by sheer productivity and savings. The Ruble wont get pushed around like it does now, despite Russia's strong macro economic data compared to productivity boat anchors like the UK , Canada or any of these dual debtors with no reserves

    Russia has the 6th biggest economy by PPP. And the proof that PPP is the accurate number is the fact that Russia also has the 5th most foreign exchange reserves, 5th most gold (more than China) 5th most billionaires and top 5 trade surplus. Russia is just being very conservative. It has no net debt and the lowest debt in the G20. The highest central bank reserves/GDP in the world.

    Its never going to compete with China in consumer goods MFG or high precision MFG like Germany. Russia's strength is big projects. Civil nuclear, space, military hardware, infrastructure.


    Its funny how in the 90's, China was supposed to overtake Russia in the non western military arms market. And the space market. Then it was supposed to in the early 2000's. And even now, we hear the same tropes about China overtaking Russia these sectors. Russia has been integrating its Soviet strengths into corporate entities. And they keep progressing.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:51 pm

    Pierre Sprey wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Russia could do supercarriers no problem.

    The issue is more capacities to build it and money. Not the technology.

    They could have an army with 10 000 t-14, 1000 su-57 in theory and a 20 kuznetsov carriers in theory.

    Money wont be an issue in 10 years. It isn't now. Its just that Russia is being super conservative and is planning for the monetary reset of the world economy. After the reset, the haves and have nots will not be determined by how close you are to the US empire. It will be determined by sheer productivity and savings. The Ruble wont get pushed around like it does now, despite Russia's strong macro economic data compared to productivity boat anchors like the UK , Canada or any of these dual debtors with no reserves

    Russia has the 6th biggest economy by PPP. And the proof that PPP is the accurate number is the fact that Russia also has the 5th most foreign exchange reserves, 5th most gold (more than China) 5th most billionaires and top 5 trade surplus. Russia is just being very conservative. It has no net debt and the lowest debt in the G20. The highest central bank reserves/GDP in the world.

    Its never going to compete with China in consumer goods MFG or high precision MFG like Germany. Russia's strength is big projects. Civil nuclear, space, military hardware, infrastructure.


    Its funny how in the 90's, China was supposed to overtake Russia in the non western military arms market. And the space market. Then it was supposed to in the early 2000's. And even now, we hear the same tropes about China overtaking Russia these sectors. Russia has been integrating its Soviet strengths into corporate entities. And they keep progressing.

    This I agree with.

    Money makes no difference during war. Exchange rates and what not go out the window. And things are changing quite quickly on international trade arena and USD will be getting battered sooner than later.

    Russia is really hardening its position economically for the right reasons. At that point, they will go hard on military procurement and development for right reasons too.
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:30 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:
    Nonsense, you cannot compare Su-57 with F-35
    The Su-57 is the counterpart of F-22 by size, capacity and performance
    The Su-57 has not the definitive engine so the real performance is still not known
    F-35: length 15,5m wingspan: 10,5m weigth: 22,5 tn
    F-22: length 19m wingspan: 13,5m weigth: 30 tn
    Su-57; length: 22m wingspan:14m weigth: 35tn



    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201807141553-85bx.htm

    Lipetsk Air Center will receive Su-57 fighters one of the first in the army
    "In the near future we will get a new aircraft - Su-57, which is designed to gain dominance in the air,"  the head of the air center Yuri Sushkov told reporters.

    Fighters of the fifth generation of Su-57 in the near future will go to the disposal of experts of the Lipetsk Air Center, which will receive these aircrafts among the first in the army. The head of the air center Yuri Sushkov told journalists about it.
    "In the near future we will get a new airplane - Su-57, which is designed to gain dominance in the air," said Lieutenant-General.
    Sushkov added that today the air center in Lipetsk is equipped with the best airplanes - Su-35 and Su-30SM.
    The Lieutenant-General also recalled that the Lipetsk Air Center is the foremost connection of the Russian military aviation space, fulfilling the most important and responsible tasks of the army command
    Not wanting to be a dick but I think this is inaccurate

    F-22 was designed for air superiority
    F-35 is a multirole fighter covering all rest of the roles for USAF/USN/USMC and including air superiority for the unfortunate allies that don't have anything better
    Su-57 is a multi-role fighter covering both A2A and A2G roles. Therefore comparable both to F-22 and F-35. It is bigger than F-35 but since US has no other strike fighter in their roadmap they are directly equivalent in their roles.

    Empty weight of F-22 19,7 T
    Su-57 18,5 T
    F-35C > 15 T

    MTOW F-35 > 70.000 lb

    Length Su-57 < 20 m

    Frontal area
    Su-57 9,47 m²
    F-22 9,25 m²
    F-35A 8,12 m²
    F-16 < 5 m²

    F-35 is short as a light fighter but heavy and thick as a heavy one.
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    Pierre Sprey

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:51 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:
    Pierre Sprey wrote:Here is a table showing the failed and cancelled su 57 vs the F-35


    Nonsense, you cannot compare Su-57 with F-35
    The Su-57 is the counterpart of F-22 by size, capacity and performance
    The Su-57 has not the definitive engine so the real performance is still not known
    F-35: length 15,5m wingspan: 10,5m weigth: 22,5 tn
    F-22: length 19m wingspan: 13,5m weigth: 30 tn
    Su-57; length: 22m wingspan:14m weigth: 35tn



    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201807141553-85bx.htm

    Lipetsk Air Center will receive Su-57 fighters one of the first in the army
    "In the near future we will get a new aircraft - Su-57, which is designed to gain dominance in the air,"  the head of the air center Yuri Sushkov told reporters.

    Fighters of the fifth generation of Su-57 in the near future will go to the disposal of experts of the Lipetsk Air Center, which will receive these aircrafts among the first in the army. The head of the air center Yuri Sushkov told journalists about it.
    "In the near future we will get a new airplane - Su-57, which is designed to gain dominance in the air," said Lieutenant-General.
    Sushkov added that today the air center in Lipetsk is equipped with the best airplanes - Su-35 and Su-30SM.
    The Lieutenant-General also recalled that the Lipetsk Air Center is the foremost connection of the Russian military aviation space, fulfilling the most important and responsible tasks of the army command

    Yes we certainly can and will. For all intents and purposes, the F-35 is "the jet". The F-22 is discontinued at 160ish functioning copies with a 40% availability rate. dunno

    What ? Do you feel sorry for the F-35 pilots ?

    And man has this engine issue ever been blown out of proportion lately. Mostly by the propagandists. The su 57 is still a formidable and serviceable fighter with these engines.

    Im on F16.net trying to straighten out the propaganda mess there on the su 57
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:18 am

    https://vpk.name/news/221828_voiskovyie_ispyitaniya_su57_nachnutsya_v_2019_godu.html

    Military tests of su-57 will start in 2019

    The defense Ministry told the newspaper that the first latest fighter test pilots-instructors. The initial task will be to test the weapon systems of the aircraft and radar stations. There will also be launches of aircraft weapons.

    According to the results of military trials of military experts will develop a program of training, will be a guide on tactical ways to maximize the use of flight opportunities onboard equipment and armament of the latest machines.

    Then in the Lipetsk centre will begin training pilots of combatant squadrons and aviation regiments.

    According to the former commander of the 4th army of VVS and PVO Valery Gorbenko in Lipetsk will actually start fighting exploitation of the fighter. Test pilots will inform the instructor comments concerning the construction and operation of the aircraft on which the instruction will be subject to minor changes.

    The expert noted that usually at this stage starts serial production of military aircraft. He was confident that the admission to the training center prior to the beginning of deliveries of cars directly to the troops in a short time – only a few months.

    eulereix

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  eulereix on Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:24 pm

    Hello

    I am new at this forum and would like to ask a few questions ( maybe some one already answered, but I can not seem to find it), regarding T50/PAKFA/Su57 project.

    Can Su57 super cruise whith current engines? If it can, what speed is achieved,and is there any reliable source ?

    (there is a video from 2011 where Evgeny Marchukov and Ilja Fedorov claimed that the interim engines (izd 117) for T50 are capable of super cruise).

    I also remember interview with Sergey Bogdan, when he was test pilot for Su 35, where he said that he achieved M~1,2 (without afterburner) in clean configuration with 117s. So, it is naturally to assume that Su57 is even better. Of course we are all waiting for izd 30.

    Thanks



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    Militarov

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Militarov on Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:47 pm

    eulereix wrote:Hello

    I am new at this forum and would like to ask a few questions ( maybe  some one already answered, but I can not seem to find it), regarding T50/PAKFA/Su57 project.

    Can Su57 super cruise whith current engines? If it can, what speed is achieved,and  is there any reliable source ?

    (there is a video from 2011 where Evgeny Marchukov and Ilja Fedorov claimed that the  interim engines (izd 117) for T50 are capable of super cruise).

    I also remember interview with Sergey Bogdan, when he was test pilot for Su 35,  where he said that he achieved M~1,2 (without afterburner) in clean configuration with 117s. So, it is naturally to assume that Su57 is even better. Of course we are all waiting for izd 30.

    Thanks




    No reliable sources as of now.

    Allegedly in clean configuration Su-35S can supercruise but whats the point if you know what i mean. Also we dont have reliable source for that either, but its plausible.

    I assume that Su-57 probably can supercruise too at low supersonic in clean configuration with current engines too. But again there are no reliable sources for such claim just our personal opinions and expectations.

    With Izd. 30 its expected from Su-57 to be capable of low supersonic supercruising with load, most likely in A-A loadout.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  eulereix on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:49 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    eulereix wrote:Hello

    I am new at this forum and would like to ask a few questions ( maybe  some one already answered, but I can not seem to find it), regarding T50/PAKFA/Su57 project.

    Can Su57 super cruise whith current engines? If it can, what speed is achieved,and  is there any reliable source ?

    (there is a video from 2011 where Evgeny Marchukov and Ilja Fedorov claimed that the  interim engines (izd 117) for T50 are capable of super cruise).

    I also remember interview with Sergey Bogdan, when he was test pilot for Su 35,  where he said that he achieved M~1,2 (without afterburner) in clean configuration with 117s. So, it is naturally to assume that Su57 is even better. Of course we are all waiting for izd 30.

    Thanks




    No reliable sources as of now.

    Allegedly in clean configuration Su-35S can supercruise but whats the point if you know what i mean.  Also we dont have reliable source for that either, but its plausible.

    I assume that Su-57 probably can supercruise too at low supersonic in clean configuration with current engines too. But again there are no reliable sources for such claim just our personal opinions and expectations.

    With Izd. 30 its expected from Su-57 to be capable of low supersonic supercruising with load, most likely in A-A loadout.


    Militarov, thanks for the answer. I only mentioned clean configuration Su-35S as a comparison factor for Su-57 ( since it will carry missiles within internal weapon bays). So, izd.30 it is. Ok. Thanks.



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    AMCXXL

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  AMCXXL on Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:57 pm

    https://iz.ru/767944/aleksei-ramm-aleksandr-kruglov/su-57-idet-v-armiiu
    In early 2019, the Lipetsk 4th Combat Training Center (PSC) will receive two new production Su-57 aircraft.
    They will be tested by experienced test pilots, then commanders, pilots and technical personnel for winged vehicles will be trained in the center. Also, the "Aircraft Bible" will be created, which describes all the nuances of his work. According to military experts, the fact of the transfer of fighters to the air center of VKS indicates the imminent adoption of the first Russian fighter of the fifth generation for armament.

    Onboard systems for a fighter of the sixth generation will be tested on the Su-57
    As told Izvestia to the Defense Ministry, early next year, two serial Su-57 should be transferred to the 4th Center of Combat Training VKS.

    Lipetsk Aviation Center is engaged in the development and implementation of new methods of combat use of aircraft systems. Here, the flying and engineering and technical personnel of combat units are retrained to pilot new types of aircraft. Earlier in the center, multifunctional fighters Su-30SM and Su-35S were ridden.

    There is a two-stage system for adopting new aircraft in the air defense system:
    -First serial copies are received by the 929 State Flight Test Center of the Ministry of Defense (GLITS), which is located in the city of Akhtubinsk in the Astrakhan Region. This stage will be completed before the end of this year.
    -After that, the Su-57 will be transferred to the Lipetsk Air Center.
    Pilot instructors will first work at the 4th Combat Training Center with the Su-57. They will check the operation of the weapons system, radar stations, and conduct training launches of aviation weapons. Based on the results of the tests, they will have to formulate a combat training program, develop tactical techniques that will make the most effective use of flight characteristics, capabilities of airborne equipment and weapons of new aircraft.
    -Only after that in Lipetsk will begin training pilots of the regimental regiments and squadrons.


    In Akhtubinsk, testers will conduct research flights on critical regimes. That is, determine when the aircraft can fall into a tailspin, with what maximum speed and overload it can perform maneuvers safely for the pilot. In the course of these tests, once again check the strength of the Su-57 airframe designs.

    Based on the results of the running of the Su-57, a flight operation manual (RLE) will be prepared. This set of reference materials and instructions is called the Aircraft Bible. The pilot should know this document almost by heart and strictly observe it. The manual, in particular, describes the scheme of the pilot's actions in the event of a particular incident or emergency situation. The leadership's knowledge has repeatedly saved pilots in critical situations.

    Adoption of a new aircraft is a complex multi-stage process, which has a clear order and it must be observed, Izvestia was told by test pilot Hero of Russia Roman Taskaev.

    "At first the planes pass the stage of preliminary tests," the expert said. - The developer is responsible for it. At this stage, the aircraft is run by civilian test pilots with the involvement of military aviation specialists. Then the machine is given a VCS.

    In the 4th Combat Training Center, the Su-57's combat operation will actually begin, the former commander of the 4th Air Force and Air Defense Army, Hero of Russia, Lieutenant-General Valery Gorbenko told Izvestia.

    - According to the recommendations of test pilots, minor corrections will be made to the instructions for piloting and combat use. The pilots will also inform their instructors about the design and operation of the aircraft itself. Usually at this stage, a serial production of new cars begins, - he explained.

    According to the expert, the process of receiving the Su-57 in other parts of the VCS can take place in parallel. He is sure that only a few months will pass from admission to the pulp and paper plant before the delivery of the aircraft to the aviation units.[/b]
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:00 pm

    eulereix wrote:Hello

    I am new at this forum and would like to ask a few questions ( maybe  some one already answered, but I can not seem to find it), regarding T50/PAKFA/Su57 project.

    Can Su57 super cruise whith current engines? If it can, what speed is achieved,and  is there any reliable source ?

    (there is a video from 2011 where Evgeny Marchukov and Ilja Fedorov claimed that the  interim engines (izd 117) for T50 are capable of super cruise).

    I also remember interview with Sergey Bogdan, when he was test pilot for Su 35,  where he said that he achieved M~1,2 (without afterburner) in clean configuration with 117s. So, it is naturally to assume that Su57 is even better. Of course we are all waiting for izd 30.

    Thanks



    The unofficial information available by now would point the PAK-FA to be capable of low-supersonic cruise with the current engines, similarly to Su-35 and considering that the frontal area is little smaller, weight is higher and dry thrust also slightly higher.

    With Izd. 30 it would be expected to supercruise at speeds similar to those of F-22 if the dry thrust of the new engines meets the claimed value (ca. 110 kN)
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    Pierre Sprey

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:08 am

    My take on the one famous pic that shows some engine face. Its just like the YF-23 which had better all aspect stealth than the F-22. The famous pic gives the illusion that you are looking head on and therefore looking straight at an engine. But in fact, you are not. Its on an angle. So you are looking down the nacle at an angle which you could also do on the YF-23 and spot some engine face.


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