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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 17, 2018 10:57 am

    It was a genuine multirole aircraft... which the MiG-25 never was... but to suggest it was a better interceptor than a MiG-25 is ridiculous...

    It was not ideal against small manouverable fighters but had plenty of engine power and lots of missiles... add a gun and improve the missiles a bit and you have an excellent fighter/bomber.

    It would be an OK interceptor, but not in the same game as the MiG-25.

    Comments about the F-4 being used as a strike bomber are interesting... it reminded me of the old British Buccaneer... a carrier based plane that was derided as being subsonic, yet with a bucket of instant sunshine under each wing at low level if was faster than an F-16 and could fly further... and could do so from an aircraft carrier...


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    Swede55

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    Pak-fa

    Post  Swede55 on Fri May 18, 2018 6:37 am

    Yes, the Buccaneer was awesomely efficient.
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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Hole on Fri May 18, 2018 10:59 am

    How did we get from the Su-57 to the Buccaneer? unshaven
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri May 18, 2018 1:49 pm

    Hole wrote:How did we get from the Su-57 to the Buccaneer? unshaven

    Don't have a clue. Here is fresh photo of I-30 engine test to get things back on track. Also every Su-57 should get that red stripe, it look awesome thumbsup





    New engine is tiny in comparison to old one, once it's up and running it will do wonders.

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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Hole on Fri May 18, 2018 4:59 pm


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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 19, 2018 1:33 am

    Well actually while many in the west think of the F-35 as being a stealthy F-16/Harrier jump jet all rolled in to one, I think of it as a stealthy Bucc... which will be something the Su-57 will come up against repeatedly in its future no doubt...


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    JohninMK

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  JohninMK on Mon May 21, 2018 11:40 pm

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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Fri May 25, 2018 3:26 pm



    We need more news about this guy here... the Russians test and test the Izd. 30 and say NOTHING about it! Very Happy
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    JohninMK

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  JohninMK on Fri May 25, 2018 3:53 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    We need more news about this guy here... the Russians test and test the Izd. 30 and say NOTHING about it! Very Happy
    Its classified.
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Fri May 25, 2018 4:35 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    LMFS wrote:
    We need more news about this guy here... the Russians test and test the Izd. 30 and say NOTHING about it! Very Happy
    Its classified.
    Therefore the smile...
    F-119 data remains classified until today so imagine Izd.30
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri May 25, 2018 6:09 pm

    Shoigu: Su-57 struck terrorists in Syria with cruise missiles

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    zg18

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  zg18 on Fri May 25, 2018 8:37 pm





    https://twitter.com/WaelAlRussi/status/1000079234335956992
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Fri May 25, 2018 8:45 pm

    zg18 wrote:

    Just saw it on Twitter... great!

    It seems a Kh-59MK2, quite new weapon and launched from rear weapons bay. This means this rear bay is also capable for big air to ground ordnance. This doubles the ground attack capacity of the F-35 with notably superior kinematics too. thumbsup

    I have the suspicion that the T-50s were in Syria for longer than stated and were only removed when it was leaked or allowed to leak their presence there. This would have been a good test of their stealth on the one hand and a warning to hot heads on the other, what do you think?
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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Hole on Fri May 25, 2018 9:07 pm

    The were deployed without special hangars like the planes of some other countries.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri May 25, 2018 9:16 pm

    LMFS wrote:.....

    I have the suspicion that the T-50s were in Syria for longer than stated and were only removed when it was leaked or allowed to leak their presence there. This would have been a good test of their stealth on the one hand and a warning to hot heads on the other, what do you think?

    I would bet that 2 of them were there for a while and that news broke when second paid arrived and got filmed. They were all pulled out afterwards.

    As for this missile strike, this is officially first time we got to see bomb bay doors open.

    If it can hold 2 of these missiles in one internal bay than it means that it can carry 4 cruise missiles and 2 AA missiles all internally.

    Not bad at all. thumbsup


    Hole wrote:The were deployed without special hangars like the planes of some other countries.

    They are designed to operate in East European/Siberian weather. Compared to that Syrian desert is factory environment.
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Fri May 25, 2018 9:59 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    If it can hold 2 of these missiles in one internal bay than it means that it can carry 4 cruise missiles and 2 AA missiles all internally.

    Not bad at all. thumbsup
    Exactly.

    Forgot to say, but given it can supercruise it not doubles but multiplies by four times the bombing rate of a F-35... not to talk of stand-off range and survivability... it is only me or is this a massive advantage on the Russian side???
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    ZoA

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  ZoA on Sat May 26, 2018 11:50 am

    No way it can fit 4 Kh-59MK2 in that thing. Maybe 2 can fit, but my guess is most probably single heavy missiles like Kh-59 occupies entire central bay, so in addition to it it can carry only 2 more short range a-a missile in side bays for self defence.

    If they want to fit 4 bombs / missile in central bay they will most lilly use Kh-38 that are much shorter and could fit in.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat May 26, 2018 2:46 pm

    ZoA wrote:No way it can fit 4 Kh-59MK2 in that thing. Maybe 2 can fit, but my guess is most probably single heavy missiles like Kh-59 occupies entire central bay, so in addition to it it can carry only 2 more short range a-a missile in side bays for self defence.

    If they want to fit 4 bombs / missile in central bay they will most lilly use Kh-38 that are much shorter and could fit in.

    They definitely fit, have you even seen the video?

    Missile is designed from the get go to fit into weapons bay, one pair of missiles per bag, four total.

    Look at the photos from the missile and then look at photos of underside of the Su-57. They fit perfectly.



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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Sat May 26, 2018 3:54 pm

    ZoA wrote:No way it can fit 4 Kh-59MK2 in that thing. Maybe 2 can fit, but my guess is most probably single heavy missiles like Kh-59 occupies entire central bay, so in addition to it it can carry only 2 more short range a-a missile in side bays for self defence.

    If they want to fit 4 bombs / missile in central bay they will most lilly use Kh-38 that are much shorter and could fit in.
    Agree with PapaDragon.

    All weapons designed for Su-57 are 420 x 40 x 40 cm. The MK2 has even recessed sections to accommodate wings and tail surfaces.
    The bays are 4.5 x 1 m, so it most probably can carry 4. No sense in designing the missile so carefully to stay within that 40 x 40 cm section if you are just going to carry one in a 1 m wide bay.
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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Isos on Sat May 26, 2018 5:00 pm

    The bays are 4.5 x 1 m, so it most probably can carry 4. No sense in designing the missile so carefully to stay within that 40 x 40 cm section if you are just going to carry one in a 1 m wide bay.

    Kh-38 are 4.2 x 0.31m and larger with wings so it can't carry more than 4 too just like kh-59 unless they make it smaller to have 3 per bays.

    They will need to work on weapons too. They have long range kh'59, smaller range kh-35U and they need a new kh-25/38 class misslle. And gliding bombs.
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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Sat May 26, 2018 6:08 pm

    Isos wrote:Kh-38 are 4.2 x 0.31m and larger with wings so it can't carry more than 4 too just like kh-59 unless they make it smaller to have 3 per bays.

    They will need to work on weapons too. They have long range kh'59, smaller range kh-35U and they need a new kh-25/38 class misslle. And gliding bombs.
    Yes, aprox. 40 cm section appears to be the upper limit of what can be carried inside the bay, 3 x 31 cm + folding wings does not fit, besides clearances are needed.

    They have the -59, 35, 38, Groms, -58, KAB250 and 500... they are doing it properly, developing the weapons together with the carrier AFAIK thumbsup

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  marcellogo on Sat May 26, 2018 6:19 pm

    Isos wrote:
    The bays are 4.5 x 1 m, so it most probably can carry 4. No sense in designing the missile so carefully to stay within that 40 x 40 cm section if you are just going to carry one in a 1 m wide bay.

    Kh-38 are 4.2 x 0.31m and larger with wings so it can't carry more than 4 too just like kh-59 unless they make it smaller to have 3 per bays.

    They will need to work on weapons too. They have long range kh'59, smaller range kh-35U and they need a new kh-25/38 class misslle. And gliding bombs.

    0.31m+ 0.31m+ 0.31m= 0.93m i.e. by a narrow margin but they can fit, just need to carry the central one a little forward so that the wings didn't add to the total width...
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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Isos on Sat May 26, 2018 6:34 pm

    marcellogo wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    The bays are 4.5 x 1 m, so it most probably can carry 4. No sense in designing the missile so carefully to stay within that 40 x 40 cm section if you are just going to carry one in a 1 m wide bay.

    Kh-38 are 4.2 x 0.31m and larger with wings so it can't carry more than 4 too just like kh-59 unless they make it smaller to have 3 per bays.

    They will need to work on weapons too. They have long range kh'59, smaller range kh-35U and they need a new kh-25/38 class misslle. And gliding bombs.

    0.31m+ 0.31m+ 0.31m= 0.93m i.e. by a narrow margin but they can fit, just need to carry the central one a  little forward so that the wings didn't add to the total width...

    yeah but you can't just put them with only few cm between them. When released they could touch one another and destroy the aircraft. And that's if you don't take the wing into account. They have wingspan of 1.14 m.

    Wiki page says they have folding wings but yet it still adds some cm to the width so you still can't put 3 per bays.

    The best solution is to use the design of kh-59mk2.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat May 26, 2018 8:05 pm

    Isos wrote:
    marcellogo wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    The bays are 4.5 x 1 m, so it most probably can carry 4. No sense in designing the missile so carefully to stay within that 40 x 40 cm section if you are just going to carry one in a 1 m wide bay.

    Kh-38 are 4.2 x 0.31m and larger with wings so it can't carry more than 4 too just like kh-59 unless they make it smaller to have 3 per bays.

    They will need to work on weapons too. They have long range kh'59, smaller range kh-35U and they need a new kh-25/38 class misslle. And gliding bombs.

    0.31m+ 0.31m+ 0.31m= 0.93m i.e. by a narrow margin but they can fit, just need to carry the central one a  little forward so that the wings didn't add to the total width...

    yeah but you can't just put them with only few cm between them. When released they could touch one another and destroy the aircraft. And that's if you don't take the wing into account. They have wingspan of 1.14 m.

    Wiki page says they have folding wings but yet it still adds some cm to the width so you still can't put 3 per bays.

    The best solution is to use the design of kh-59mk2.

    In that case why did they make them so thin? Just make them wider with bigger payload and range.

    They fit side by side no problem.
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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Isos on Sat May 26, 2018 9:10 pm

    They can also carry them on the wings. They have 500+ range and they are stealth missile so they shouldn't increase su-57s rcs. They will launch them far away from the target and before than a potential interception happen.

    Btw su-57 is supposed to be able to carry 4 kh-58 so it should be able to carry 4 kh-59 too.

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