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Good photoshop though 
....that's how it should like with the new engines
....that's how it should like with the new engines+80
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PAK-FA, T-50: News #4
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
Points : 3057
Join date : 2011-08-08
Location : Terra Australis
ATLASCUB- Posts : 1154
Points : 1158
Join date : 2017-02-13
PapaDragon wrote:TheArmenian wrote:It is a photo shop.
Sorry.
Fuck
Posting photoshopped images should be permaban offense...
You jumped on the gun good
Serrated nose gave it away tho...
PapaDragon- Posts : 13264
Points : 13306
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
ATLASCUB wrote:PapaDragon wrote:TheArmenian wrote:It is a photo shop.
Sorry.
Fuck
Posting photoshopped images should be permaban offense...
You jumped on the gun good
Serrated nose gave it away tho...
My bad for hoping that that Russian arms industry would be capable of not being totally incompetent all the time.
Should have known better, joke is definitely on me...
Tingsay- Posts : 183
Points : 185
Join date : 2016-12-09
Yeah, I got fooled at Keypublishing forum too lol
Neutrality- Posts : 888
Points : 906
Join date : 2015-05-02
Even if that is a shop, it's probably very close to the final product.
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
Points : 3057
Join date : 2011-08-08
Location : Terra Australis
Some rumours/speculations from the Ru net...
The initial batch of 12 will consist of 10 x aircraft with the 117 engine + 2 with the new Izd-30 engines. The bulk of the order will be handed over in 2019. The ones with the 117 engines will be re-engined with the new engines later on when the Izd-30 enters serial production. The initial batch will be used for further tests to work out SOP's and tactics for operational use
The initial batch of 12 will consist of 10 x aircraft with the 117 engine + 2 with the new Izd-30 engines. The bulk of the order will be handed over in 2019. The ones with the 117 engines will be re-engined with the new engines later on when the Izd-30 enters serial production. The initial batch will be used for further tests to work out SOP's and tactics for operational use
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
Points : 3057
Join date : 2011-08-08
Location : Terra Australis
T-50-2 with the new engine from a different perspective
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
Points : 1584
Join date : 2012-08-05
Age : 26
Location : Varna, Bulgaria
How many hours at full thrust flight does it take to determine if a jet engine is safe?
GarryB- Posts : 38923
Points : 39419
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
My bad for hoping that that Russian arms industry would be capable of not being totally incompetent all the time.
Yeah, those incompetent fools are just useless aren't they, because everyone is making engines with 18 tons thrust, not to mention 5th gen fighters...
...useless bastards...
Or it could just be sour grapes from a frustrated SOB on the internet who just wants to see something better than what is rammed down his throat every day from the US propaganda machine...
PapaDragon- Posts : 13264
Points : 13306
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
GarryB wrote:..............
...useless bastards...
Or it could just be sour grapes from a frustrated SOB on the internet who just wants to see something better than what is rammed down his throat every day from the US propaganda machine...
Yes Garry, sour grapes, that must be it.
It's propaganda that forces Russian arms industry to drag their asses. Just like it's some NATO superweapon that is zapping Russian satellites upon launch, right? Because that was just posted as an excuse.
And silly me for thinking they might have done something right for a change.
Best course of action from now on: shit on Russia preemptively until you have proof that they done something right for a change.
Dr.Snufflebug- Posts : 1108
Points : 1106
Join date : 2017-12-27
Some of you guys need to chill a bit, methinks.
I was the author of that photoshopped picture, back at the Keypublishing forums.
Now, what I did was simply to combine a bunch of totally legit things that we've seen so far. Let me run you through them...
Saturn 30 serrated nozzle, on the Sukhoi Su-57LL engine testbed (formerly T-50-2/#52), first seen in 2017:
Su-35S-style anti-glare black stuff around the cockpit area, first seen in the very same, above Su-57LL in 2017:
Serrated nose/radome, on the original T-50-2/#52 (first seen in 2011):
Covered (non-bare metal Flanker style) engine pods, first seen in T-50-6 (and then in all subsequent ones):
Digital splinter camouflage, first seen in T-50-9:
New, reduced contrast splinter camouflage, first seen on T-50-11 (#511, in 2017):
That last picture obviously being my starting point when I photoshopped in all the other things. Yet, all I basically did with my photoshopping was to add 1+1+1+1 - because you can see where this is going, with all these incremental and back-and-forth things. So that's basically it, my photoshop was an attempt to envision the serial model, combining all the things they've tested back in the prototypes. Russian aerospace engineering tends to be highly non-linear, it doesn't follow an alpha-beta-version pattern chronologically, but it goes back and forth like crazy. When the eventual serial model finally hits the shelves, you'll see what I mean. I'm almost willing to bet that it won't be too far from my earlier photoshop excercise.
At least this guy gets it.
I was the author of that photoshopped picture, back at the Keypublishing forums.
Now, what I did was simply to combine a bunch of totally legit things that we've seen so far. Let me run you through them...
Saturn 30 serrated nozzle, on the Sukhoi Su-57LL engine testbed (formerly T-50-2/#52), first seen in 2017:
Su-35S-style anti-glare black stuff around the cockpit area, first seen in the very same, above Su-57LL in 2017:
Serrated nose/radome, on the original T-50-2/#52 (first seen in 2011):
Covered (non-bare metal Flanker style) engine pods, first seen in T-50-6 (and then in all subsequent ones):
Digital splinter camouflage, first seen in T-50-9:
New, reduced contrast splinter camouflage, first seen on T-50-11 (#511, in 2017):
That last picture obviously being my starting point when I photoshopped in all the other things. Yet, all I basically did with my photoshopping was to add 1+1+1+1 - because you can see where this is going, with all these incremental and back-and-forth things. So that's basically it, my photoshop was an attempt to envision the serial model, combining all the things they've tested back in the prototypes. Russian aerospace engineering tends to be highly non-linear, it doesn't follow an alpha-beta-version pattern chronologically, but it goes back and forth like crazy. When the eventual serial model finally hits the shelves, you'll see what I mean. I'm almost willing to bet that it won't be too far from my earlier photoshop excercise.
Neutrality wrote:Even if that is a shop, it's probably very close to the final product.
At least this guy gets it.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13264
Points : 13306
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Some of you guys need to chill a bit, methinks.
I was the author of that photoshopped picture, back at the Keypublishing forums..............
Nicely done, cool skillz
Small request: add a notice or watermark next time, you know just for those of us more easily excitable
Isos- Posts : 11296
Points : 11266
Join date : 2015-11-07
Even if that is a shop, it's probably very close to the final product.
It depends.T-10 and su-27 were very different. Rafale is also different from the first test rafale. Now that they tested some of them they can still improve the design. Or The computer assisted design that t-10 didnt have but t 50 had is very good but it's still possible that they change something.
Dr.Snufflebug- Posts : 1108
Points : 1106
Join date : 2017-12-27
PapaDragon wrote:Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Some of you guys need to chill a bit, methinks.
I was the author of that photoshopped picture, back at the Keypublishing forums..............
Nicely done, cool skillz
Small request: add a notice or watermark next time, you know just for those of us more easily excitable
It's not my fault that one of your users lifted it off Keypub without mentioning the source. I made it pretty clear that it was a PS job, and on top of that I'm pretty known thereabouts in general for my PS jobs.
I am however glad that this little thing of mine received so much attention. As you can see in my post above, none of the things I threw into that PS job were actually fantasy inventions of mine -- oh no, they are all real, and all have showed up in various T-50 prototypes over the years. Including the serrated nose. So, yeah, what I said above, basically.
GarryB- Posts : 38923
Points : 39419
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Best course of action from now on: shit on Russia preemptively until you have proof that they done something right for a change.
Yeah, so just keep doing what you are doing... we need another Kilogolf here to remind us who the enemy is...
Funny that I call you on being a whiny little bitch and your response is that you wish to continue being the worst sort of fanboi... the 14 year old everything has to happen now or it is junk sort of fanboi.
You must be a real
to be around at christmas time.... 
It's not my fault that one of your users lifted it off Keypub without mentioning the source. I made it pretty clear that it was a PS job, and on top of that I'm pretty known thereabouts in general for my PS jobs.
Don't take it personally... what you did was not much different from an artists impression of what a newer model will look like.
Anyone who took that two and added two of their own and came up with four... well that is their problem.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13264
Points : 13306
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
GarryB wrote:Best course of action from now on: shit on Russia preemptively until you have proof that they done something right for a change.
Yeah, so just keep doing what you are doing... we need another Kilogolf here to remind us who the enemy is...
You mean like singlehandedly keeping treads about Russian Coast Guard, Icebreakers and Vostochnii Spaceport alive (even though barely anybody seems to give a shit about those) or post news about Russian Space Programe, Syrian War, Borei and Yasen subs, Crimean Bridge, etc... ?
As for KiloGolf, just because he doesn't post rosy fairytale bullshit about some fictional crap that Russia is supposedly building (hint: they don't) like that retard ehenia makes him an ''enemy''?
Enemy of what exactly?
KiloGolf is Greek. You are from New Zealand and that troll pisshead spammer is from Spain. I will take Kilo's opinion about Russia over yours any day of the week.
GarryB wrote:....Funny that I call you on being a whiny little bitch and your response is that you wish to continue being the worst sort of fanboi... the 14 year old everything has to happen now or it is junk sort of fanboi....
Classy...
You make Reddit moderators look good
Oh and I suppose you hear about latest hit by the spammer: apparently Russians are already building nuclear destroyers in secret. Yup, that got posted by that clown and you still haven't deleted that crap. Good job mod, really keeping the quality on the up and up...
GarryB wrote:....You must be a real
Christmas ain't for another week so I'm cool....
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
Points : 7341
Join date : 2016-11-07
Kilo also posts blatantly stupid and bullshit stuff that I called him out on, particularly nonesense in economics. Regarding the shit flinging you and almost everyone else does in the Navy thread (you are guilty too) degrades this forums as well.
So don't try to act as if you are innocent.
You can post amazing stuff, but also get aggitated rather easy and then go on a tirade. I know, I'm no better.
So don't try to act as if you are innocent.
You can post amazing stuff, but also get aggitated rather easy and then go on a tirade. I know, I'm no better.
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
Points : 1584
Join date : 2012-08-05
Age : 26
Location : Varna, Bulgaria
One more subtle western propaganda point about the T-50 is that it somehow "loses too much energy" when turning at high speed, due to it being supermaneuverable.
In effect they're claiming that it sucks at energy maneuverability.
I find this extremely counterintuitive, since the T-50 has the best T/W ratio in the world, and because TVC improves it further. One could argue that it has too much drag, but the T-50 is extremely streamlined.
I for one have to say your saying BS here. Its been a few weeks since the Izd.30 entered testing. If anything, work is going ahead of schedule.
In effect they're claiming that it sucks at energy maneuverability.
I find this extremely counterintuitive, since the T-50 has the best T/W ratio in the world, and because TVC improves it further. One could argue that it has too much drag, but the T-50 is extremely streamlined.
My bad for hoping that that Russian arms industry would be capable of not being totally incompetent all the time.
I for one have to say your saying BS here. Its been a few weeks since the Izd.30 entered testing. If anything, work is going ahead of schedule.
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3699
Points : 3679
Join date : 2016-04-08
KomissarBojanchev wrote:One more subtle western propaganda point about the T-50 is that it somehow "loses too much energy" when turning at high speed, due to it being supermaneuverable.
In effect they're claiming that it sucks at energy maneuverability.
I find this extremely counterintuitive, since the T-50 has the best T/W ratio in the world, and because TVC improves it further. One could argue that it has too much drag, but the T-50 is extremely streamlined.
My bad for hoping that that Russian arms industry would be capable of not being totally incompetent all the time.
I for one have to say your saying BS here. Its been a few weeks since the Izd.30 entered testing. If anything, work is going ahead of schedule.
Only area you can call them incompetent on is the naval area they are doing fairly well with the army and Airforce.
Isos- Posts : 11296
Points : 11266
Join date : 2015-11-07
One more subtle western propaganda point about the T-50 is that it somehow "loses too much energy" when turning at high speed, due to it being supermaneuverable.
In effect they're claiming that it sucks at energy maneuverability.
I find this extremely counterintuitive, since the T-50 has the best T/W ratio in the world, and because TVC improves it further. One could argue that it has too much drag, but the T-50 is extremely streamlined.
They make their fighters supermanoeuvrable so that they have the advantage on the first turn and lunch their missiles. They don't expect their sukhoi to fly around a target for 10 minutes and play with it like most poeple think ... western fighters are very manoeuvrable too russian are not stupid.
Once it lunches a missile the target will have to use evasive actions and the sukhoi will have time to get in a better position again and even use guns. Its all about tactics and pilot. A mig 21 could easily shot down a su 57 if it is badly piloted.
What you see on shows is made by test pilots who have a lot of experience. Don t expect every pilot beung that good.
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
Points : 1584
Join date : 2012-08-05
Age : 26
Location : Varna, Bulgaria
Isos wrote:One more subtle western propaganda point about the T-50 is that it somehow "loses too much energy" when turning at high speed, due to it being supermaneuverable.
In effect they're claiming that it sucks at energy maneuverability.
I find this extremely counterintuitive, since the T-50 has the best T/W ratio in the world, and because TVC improves it further. One could argue that it has too much drag, but the T-50 is extremely streamlined.
They make their fighters supermanoeuvrable so that they have the advantage on the first turn and lunch their missiles. They don't expect their sukhoi to fly around a target for 10 minutes and play with it like most poeple think ... western fighters are very manoeuvrable too russian are not stupid.
Once it lunches a missile the target will have to use evasive actions and the sukhoi will have time to get in a better position again and even use guns. Its all about tactics and pilot. A mig 21 could easily shot down a su 57 if it is badly piloted.
What you see on shows is made by test pilots who have a lot of experience. Don t expect every pilot beung that good.
But what is the whole claim that the Su-57 loses more energy than an F-22 during high speed turns?
PapaDragon- Posts : 13264
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Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
....But what is the whole claim that the Su-57 loses more energy than an F-22 during high speed turns?....
Since people who made that claim neither piloted the aircraft in question nor had access to any useful data answer is obvious: entire claim is bullshit.
Isos- Posts : 11296
Points : 11266
Join date : 2015-11-07
But what is the whole claim that the Su-57 loses more energy than an F-22 during high speed turns?
Well, just claims ...
F-22 was badly f*cked by Rafale and there is a video proving it. Yet the yankees said it was flying with fuel tanks that never appeared on the video, the f 22 is not so stealth that we don t see part of it ... the US air force lied about that, don t expect some stupid pro US "experts" to have a partial point of view about their f 22 and pak fa a plane that never really showed what it is capable of but that clearly superior to su 35.
GarryB- Posts : 38923
Points : 39419
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
You mean like singlehandedly keeping treads about Russian Coast Guard, Icebreakers and Vostochnii Spaceport alive (even though barely anybody seems to give a shit about those) or post news about Russian Space Programe, Syrian War, Borei and Yasen subs, Crimean Bridge, etc... ?
Singlehandedly? You are too modest...
Your demands for heads to roll and people to be shot in the space threads is no better... you would have made Stalin proud with your short temper.
As for KiloGolf, just because he doesn't post rosy fairytale bullshit about some fictional crap that Russia is supposedly building (hint: they don't) like that retard ehenia makes him an ''enemy''?
Enemy of what exactly?
Someone who wants to do harm... in this case to Russia.
You don't want to see Russia succeed, you just want to bitch and moan at their failures.
And of course they will fail at things... those who never fail never do.
KiloGolf is Greek. You are from New Zealand and that troll pisshead spammer is from Spain. I will take Kilo's opinion about Russia over yours any day of the we
A Serb taking the moaning of a Greek over the explanations of a Kiwi or a Spaniard... yeah... sounds like a joke if ever I heard one.
Hitch your wagon to the bitching train for all I care... not my problem.
Oh and I suppose you hear about latest hit by the spammer: apparently Russians are already building nuclear destroyers in secret. Yup, that got posted by that clown and you still haven't deleted that crap. Good job mod, really keeping the quality on the up and up...
Why should I delete what Eehnie is posting when I haven't deleted your bitching either?
One more subtle western propaganda point about the T-50 is that it somehow "loses too much energy" when turning at high speed, due to it being supermaneuverable.
Funny, because in a dogfight you actually bleed if you are not manouverable enough... so they are claiming the new Russian stealth fighter is too manouverable... WTF would they know?
I for one have to say your saying BS here. Its been a few weeks since the Izd.30 entered testing. If anything, work is going ahead of schedule.
X2... I have never seen any quote or public estimate that the new engines would be installed on all new aircraft by now... he is just being bitchy.
Only area you can call them incompetent on is the naval area they are doing fairly well with the army and Airforce.
They are balancing a budget and a requirement with a set of resources and needs.
They have corvettes more potent than NATO destroyers but they are incompetent because they have no super carriers?
They are about to introduce hypersonic anti ship missiles compatible with all their UKSK equipped vessels but they don't know what they are doing?
Even if they had no navy at all it would make no difference, but they are incompetent... because internet fanbois like yourself and other say so.
But what is the whole claim that the Su-57 loses more energy than an F-22 during high speed turns?
What it is is clutching at straws.
We spent trillions of dollars on stealth fighters but the Su-57 seems to be better than either of them... so it has flaws that you can't easily prove don't exist.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13264
Points : 13306
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
GarryB wrote:You mean like singlehandedly keeping treads about Russian Coast Guard, Icebreakers and Vostochnii Spaceport alive (even though barely anybody seems to give a shit about those) or post news about Russian Space Programe, Syrian War, Borei and Yasen subs, Crimean Bridge, etc... ?
Singlehandedly? You are too modest...
Your demands for heads to roll and people to be shot in the space threads is no better... you would have made Stalin proud with your short temper....
Really? Too modest?
Fine, here is a suggestion, a thought experiment if you will:
How about I take a very long break from posting about Coast Guard, Icebreakers and Vostochnii Spaceport and we let that fluffer eehenie you like so much take over from me on those treads?
What do you say guys?
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