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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

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    ATLASCUB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  ATLASCUB on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:15 am

    What's the latest prototype flying? 11?

    Austin

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Austin on Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:56 am

    In the network published a photo of the secret "Product 30" for the Su-57


    In the web there were photos of the new engine for the Russian fighter of the 5th generation of the Su-57 (PAK FA).

    The new jet engine has the factory designation "Product 30". It was developed by NPO Saturn in almost ten years. Such an impressive time is due to the fact that this is not a modernization of any of the existing engines in aviation, but a completely new unit. It uses completely new design solutions, some are unique, not having world analogues.




    "Product 30" significantly exceeds the engine AL-41F1, which is on the plane PAK FA at the moment. Its non-flexural traction is 11000 kgf versus 8800 kgf for the AL-41F1. On the afterburner - 19000 kgf against 15000 kgf. There are other differences: higher reliability, economical fuel consumption, increased overhaul interval, cost of operation.

    Flight tests of the Su-57 with new engines should begin before the end of 2017.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:27 am

    So what is it? Al41 with Izd30 nozzle or whole Izd30?
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:39 am

    How are we suppose to know for sure Very Happy

    Austin's article says it's Izd 30

    jaguar_br

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  jaguar_br on Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:44 pm

    What about this pictures?






    Allegedly the nozzle of a Iz-30


    From aviaforum.ru
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:56 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:How are we suppose to know for sure Very Happy

    Austin's article says it's Izd 30

    Through comparison with the Al41. I checked pictures of it and they look very similar aside from some pipe layout.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:48 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Through comparison with the Al41. I checked pictures of it and they look very similar aside from some pipe layout.

    Doesn't prove they're the same....unless your a engineer familiar with the Al-41 I doubt you could say for sure


    jaguar_br wrote:What about this pictures?




    Allegedly the nozzle of a Iz-30


    From aviaforum.ru

    Said to be an early prototype of the Izd 30 nozzle
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:36 am

    jaguar_br wrote:What about this pictures?

    From an AL-41F1S (Su-35S) if I am not mistaken.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  jaguar_br on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:20 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    jaguar_br wrote:What about this pictures?

    From an AL-41F1S (Su-35S) if I am not mistaken.

    So there are plans/experiment/projects for a low-observable nozzle for the Su-35S?
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:52 pm

    jaguar_br wrote:So there are plans/experiment/projects for a low-observable nozzle for the Su-35S?

    I doubt it. I think they simply used the nozzle from a Su-35S and serrated the petal tips to trial it for RCS improvements?

    For comparison:

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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:27 pm

    Well the low observable tube on the F-35 just has serrated edges so doesn't that make this serrated edge model the stealthy one?

    wilhelm

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:24 pm

    So, It's official.
    The Izd-30 has flown in the Su-57.
    Pic in the link below.

    http://uacrussia.ru/ru/press-center/news/sostoyalsya-pervyy-polet-letayushchey-laboratorii-t-50-s-dvigatelem-2-go-etapa
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:13 pm

    wilhelm wrote:So, It's official.
    The Izd-30 has flown in the Su-57.
    Pic in the link below.

    http://uacrussia.ru/ru/press-center/news/sostoyalsya-pervyy-polet-letayushchey-laboratorii-t-50-s-dvigatelem-2-go-etapa

    Well this will blow some specific minds  Cool

    Attached image, not necessarily one in question:

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  ATLASCUB on Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:50 am

    Nice. They put the engine on an old prototype?

    chicken

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  chicken on Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:10 am

    Is it just me or is the new engine shorter?

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  ATLASCUB on Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:17 am

    chicken wrote:Is it just me or is the new engine shorter?

    Not just you....yeah it's shorter.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:05 pm

    Izd 30 is noticeably less smoky on full afterburner during takeoff. That's a signature of a high tech engine delivering full combustion Very Happy

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    Kimppis

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Kimppis on Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:27 pm

    B-b-but Gorenburg told us that it won't be ready before 2027?

    And many Western publications proclaimed that Russia can't develop new engines? Certainly not anytime soon. Massive delays. How is this possible?

    (I'm not an expert on engine development, but there's no way it's going to take another 10 years to become fully operational, right? Su-57 is already flying with one, ffs.)

    Project Canada

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Project Canada on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:29 pm

    Kimppis wrote:
    (I'm not an expert on engine development, but there's no way it's going to take another 10 years to become fully operational, right? Su-57 is already flying with one, ffs.)

    The West will always find another excuse like what they did with Olympics to get Russia banned. Russia needs and should retaliate hard.
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    MC-21

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  MC-21 on Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:32 pm

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    Luq man

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Luq man on Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:37 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Izd 30 is noticeably less smoky on full afterburner during takeoff.  That's a signature of a high tech engine delivering full combustion  Very Happy


    Afterburner is not engaged during this take-off. But the no smoke observation is a positive sign for good quality.
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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Isos on Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:48 pm


    Afterburner is not engaged during this take-off. But the no smoke observation is a positive sign for good quality.

    Maybe the engine was not working hahaha

    They could reduce the price of the engine making more of them for future su-30 and su-35. So that maintenance of Su-57-30-35 will be the same and it will be simplier and faster.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:36 pm

    Luq man wrote:Afterburner is not engaged during this take-off. But the no smoke observation is a positive sign for good quality.

    Day-um... why didn't I notice that.... Oh well, I'll put it down to a long day at work...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:25 pm

    MC-21 wrote:

    OK folks, now we have new engine that is quite a bit shorter than old one. Here is a pic of airframe with covered engines. Once they put new engine in airframe like this one only thing that will be sticking out will be tip of the nozzle.

    So one more nail in the coffin of the old ''Russia cannot into stealth'' fairytale.




    Someone cold draw how the whole thing will fit now that we have both covers and engine size.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:44 am

    Absolutely great progress Very Happy . Now the T-50 has a much higher T/W ratio than the F-22 or any other fighter being designed.

    BTW is it possible for a serrated round nozzle to be made as stealthy as an f-22's flattened nozzle?

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