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    Russian Navy: Status & News #4

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    Singular_Transform
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:29 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:

    Slow would be an understatement for that project.
    It's a gigantic disaster, where it takes about a decade to induct a single unit. What a Face

    It's neither a good enough SSGN nor an pure SSN. Worst of both worlds is what it is. Russians were better off to keep building Oscar II and Akula III.
    They'd have more units right now instead of... one.


    I think you miss the point.

    Up to the Kazan / Prince Vladimir all sub has been finished, not manufactured.
    The shipyard had reactor/sonar/valve trains and so on for the first yassen and for the first three Borei (from the half finishedOscar-ii subs).

    In the CCCP they had a four years lead time for subs, means that they had in the shipyard at the dissolution of CCCP five-six full set of sonar,reactor, main parts for nuclear submarines.

    So, the Kazan is special, because it will be the first nuclear sub manufactured by Russia, not manufactured by CCCP and finished by Russia : ).
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:05 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:

    Slow would be an understatement for that project.
    It's a gigantic disaster, where it takes about a decade to induct a single unit. What a Face

    It's neither a good enough SSGN nor an pure SSN. Worst of both worlds is what it is. Russians were better off to keep building Oscar II and Akula III.
    They'd have more units right now instead of... one.


    I think you miss the point.

    Up to the Kazan / Prince Vladimir all sub has been finished, not manufactured.
    The shipyard had reactor/sonar/valve trains and so on for the first yassen and for the first three Borei (from the half finishedOscar-ii subs).

    In the CCCP they had a four years lead time for subs, means that they had in the shipyard at the dissolution of CCCP five-six full set of sonar,reactor, main parts for nuclear submarines.

    So, the Kazan is special, because it will be the first nuclear sub manufactured by Russia, not manufactured by CCCP and finished by Russia : ).

    I'd go for the more realistic option. Build what you know instead of venturing into the wild like that. Maybe future proves me wrong.
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:33 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:............

    I'd go for the more realistic option. Build what you know instead of venturing into the wild like that. Maybe future proves me wrong.

    Had they known about impending financial meltdown I am sure they would have stuck with Oscars and Akulas for a bit longer. They would have done many things differently.

    But future is great unknown. Cool
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:51 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:

    I'd go for the more realistic option. Build what you know instead of venturing into the wild like that. Maybe future proves me wrong.

    ?

    An akula/oscar should take longer than a yassen.

    They had to redeisng best part of the equipment I presume to be affordable ,and manufacutrable.

    Additionaly the problem isn't the difference between the akula/yassen.
    The first yassen was designed/manufactured 50-70% in the CCCP.
    The problem is they had to rebuild the whole supply chain .
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:06 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:An akula/oscar should take longer than a yassen.

    I'm pretty sure they could build 1 Akula and 1 Oscar between 2000 and 2014 (before Ukraine went rogue), if not some more. The last Oscar II came off the pipeline in 1999, I know it was a USSR hull, but still the production line was free.
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:27 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:An akula/oscar should take longer than a yassen.

    I'm pretty sure they could build 1 Akula and 1 Oscar between 2000 and 2014 (before Ukraine went rogue), if not some more. The last Oscar II came off the pipeline in 1999, I know it was a USSR hull, but still the production line was free.

    They had two Oscar-2 kit waiting final assy, they used up the parts for the two Borey.

    One full kit of yassen was in kit as well, waiting final assy.

    So, no , even with ukraine they needed huge amount of effort,time and money to rebuild the supply chain.

    We talk about companies went bankrupt/disappeared decades ago.

    50-80% of the submarine should be manufactured by tier 1 or 2 suppliers, based on my previous experience of power plant manufacturing.
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:46 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:They had two Oscar-2 kit waiting final assy, they used up the parts for the two Borey.

    One full kit of yassen was in kit as well, waiting final assy.

    So, no , even with ukraine they needed huge amount of effort,time and money to rebuild the supply chain.

    We talk about companies went bankrupt/disappeared decades ago.

    50-80% of the submarine should be  manufactured by tier 1 or 2 suppliers, based on my previous experience of power plant manufacturing.

    Interesting info, thx. Have they at least expanded shipbuilding capacity for boomers?
    Is the yard over at Vladivostok capable of making SSN, SSGN or SSBN?
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:55 pm

    You guys lack knowledge.

    There is an Oscar being built in Sevmash. It is of a modified design. The name is Belgorod, last time I checked it was 85% ready.

    By the way, the smaller Severodvinsk carries 32 Onyx versus the larger Oscar that carries 24 Granits.
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:03 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:You guys lack knowledge.

    Not really, no. Just discussing the facts of slow production of RuN's SSNs, SSGNs and so on.

    TheArmenian wrote:There is an Oscar being built in Sevmash. It is of a modified design. The name is Belgorod, last time I checked it was 85% ready.

    We knew that, but thanks.
    A conversion of a late-1992 hull for special missions, irrelevant to my chat with S_T (post 1999 stuff).
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Singular_Transform on Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:19 am

    TheArmenian wrote:You guys lack knowledge.

    There is an Oscar being built in Sevmash. It is of a modified design. The name is Belgorod, last time I checked it was 85% ready.

    By the way, the smaller Severodvinsk carries 32 Onyx versus the larger Oscar that carries 24 Granits.

    There was three by wiki, two of them ended up as Borei donor.

    The onyx actually half as big as the granit, I think the Orel will have two or three times more Onyx than Granit ( anyone has actual number of missiles after the upgrade? )
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:33 am

    Onyx is about 2.5 ton and Granit is about 7 ton so no you cannot compare them that easily.

    The Onyx has a combined rocket/ramjet engine like the kh-31 or Brahmos, the Granit is a jet powered missile... the Onyx is much smaller but also much more efficient in design.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Singular_Transform on Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:Onyx is about 2.5 ton and Granit is about 7 ton so no you cannot compare them that easily.

    The Onyx has a combined rocket/ramjet engine like the kh-31 or Brahmos, the Granit is a jet powered missile... the Onyx is much smaller but also much more efficient in design.


    Both of them ramjet powered.

    I think based on the open literacy the main difference between the two rocket is the computer / guidance system.

    I think the Granit was designed around the required caclulation capacity , and either the computer mass driven the size of the rocket, or the computer cost dirive it.


    Quite good data about the missile/airborne /space computers here:
    http://www.computer-museum.ru/english/argon.htm
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:36 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Onyx is about 2.5 ton and Granit is about 7 ton so no you cannot compare them that easily.

    The Onyx has a combined rocket/ramjet engine like the kh-31 or Brahmos, the Granit is a jet powered missile... the Onyx is much smaller but also much more efficient in design.


    Both of them ramjet powered.

    I think based on the open literacy the main difference between the two rocket is the computer / guidance system.

    I think the Granit was designed around the required caclulation capacity , and either the computer mass driven the size of the rocket, or the computer cost dirive it.


    Quite good data about the missile/airborne /space  computers here:
    http://www.computer-museum.ru/english/argon.htm

    There is no way that the weight of the missile reflects of the weight of any onboard computer. The ignorance is breathtaking.
    The USSR had LSI and VLSI components during the manufacturing period of this missile. It did not use vacuum tubes.

    The primary reason for the weight difference is the size of the warhead: 250 kg on the Onyx and 750 kg on the Granit. Gravity
    does matter for such missiles and the payload calculations are similar to rockets. But there is some air lift advantage although much
    smaller than in conventional aircraft or hypersonic gliders.
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Singular_Transform on Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:33 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Onyx is about 2.5 ton and Granit is about 7 ton so no you cannot compare them that easily.

    The Onyx has a combined rocket/ramjet engine like the kh-31 or Brahmos, the Granit is a jet powered missile... the Onyx is much smaller but also much more efficient in design.


    Both of them ramjet powered.

    I think based on the open literacy the main difference between the two rocket is the computer / guidance system.

    I think the Granit was designed around the required caclulation capacity , and either the computer mass driven the size of the rocket, or the computer cost dirive it.


    Quite good data about the missile/airborne /space  computers here:
    http://www.computer-museum.ru/english/argon.htm

    There is no way that the weight of the missile reflects of the weight of any onboard computer. The ignorance is breathtaking.
    The USSR had LSI and VLSI components during the manufacturing period of this missile. It did not use vacuum tubes.

    The primary reason for the weight difference is the size of the warhead: 250 kg on the Onyx and 750 kg on the Granit. Gravity
    does matter for such missiles and the payload calculations are similar to rockets. But there is some air lift advantage although much
    smaller than in conventional aircraft or hypersonic gliders.

    Best part of the open literature about the construction of these missiles doesn1t worth anything regards the internal construction of them.

    Fact: The Argon-16 has similar age like the Granit, and it is around 70kg without cooling and sensors.

    The Granit needs more calculation power than the Soyuz or Progress, and has more antennas.

    We know that the CCCP satellite sizes was defined by the electronic, due to cooling and so on.


    So, I think the missile was designed to fulfil certain minimal computational tasks ( mainly about synchronise the pack ) , and the computer was defined based on the 70s capability for this task, and after all of that they designed the minimum size rocket around this computer/sensor suite.


    Actually, the Granit was cross-link with the RORSAT . It was a very high priority, expensive programme.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Honesroc on Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:01 am

    Anyone come across the 2016 year-in-review video featuring naval acquisitions yet?
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:10 pm

    Russian Navy Starts Operating Newest Krabik-BM Hydrography System

    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/russia/201701031049211940-russia-navy-hydrography-system/


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  hoom on Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:37 pm

    Apparently there is a bunch of ship re-numbering going on http://charly015.blogspot.co.nz/2016/12/cambios-en-los-numerales-de-las.html
    Is there some logical reason for this? Its kinda odd that historically Russia/Soviets have tended to do this fairly frequently vs being quite rare with Western navies.
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Benya on Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:18 pm

    Russia’s Northern Fleet to receive two polar stations in 2017 - Kotelny & Alexandra Land Islands

    Two polar stations will be set up on Arctic islands for Russia’s Northern Fleet this year, Northern Fleet Commander Vice-Admiral Nikolai Yevmenov said.


    This map shows the location of the New Siberian Islands. New Siberian Islands usually refers to several island groups including the Anzhu Islands (including Kotelny), the Lyakhovsky Islands, and the De Long Islands in the Arctic Ocean between the Laptev Sea and the East Siberian Sea.

    "The Arctic zone is being explored. Two polar stations will be set up on Kotelny Island and the Alexandra Land Island this year," Yevmenov said at an enlarged meeting of the Defense Ministry’s board. According to the commander, the Northern Fleet has accomplished all assigned missions in 2016.


    Location of Alexandra Land Island

    "In 2016 , work has been carried out to provide the Arctic with all required supplies, explore it, prepare an aircraft carrier strike group for a long-distance voyage to the Mediterranean Sea and prepare our warships and submarines for missions," Yevmenov said.

    Russian Kola Composite Flotilla Commander Vice-Admiral Oleg Golubev said that one of the ships had passed the biggest number of hours at sea, thus, breaking the record.

    "The large antisubmarine warfare ship Vice-Admiral Kulakov has set a record, passing 294 days at sea over the year," Golubev said.

    © Copyright 2017 TASS. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


    New Russian military constructions on Island Alexandra Land in Franz Josef Archipelago

    Source: Arrow http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/january-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/4773-russia-s-northern-fleet-to-receive-two-polar-stations-in-2017-kotelny-alexandra-land-islands.html
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:18 am

    Benya wrote:Russia’s Northern Fleet to receive two polar stations in 2017 - Kotelny & Alexandra Land Islands






    Holy cow, Russia!
    Smart, bold move. Bravo russia
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  franco on Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:34 pm

    Two Coastal Defense units to be created to cover the Northern Regions;

    http://izvestia.ru/news/656353

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    Russian Navy Fleet 2017

    Post  humphuy on Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:42 am

    Russian Navy Fleet 2017

    0:53 : Admiral Gorshkov class Frigate Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Gorshkov
    2:45 :Smolnyy or Smol'nyy (Russian Смольный) class of training ships
    3:21 : Oscar II class Submarine
    3:41 : Kuznetsov class Aircraft Carrier
    3:47 : Pyotr Velikiy Russian battlecruiser - Kirov Class
    4:08 : Sukhoi Su-33
    4:24 : Tarantul Class Chuvashiya (ex R-2) Corvettes
    4:25: Sovremennyy Class Admiral Ushakov
    4:45 : Admiral Grigorovich Class Frigate
    4:58 : Udaloy Class Destroyer Admiral Chabanenko
    5:45 : Mi-54
    7:58 :Buyan-M Class Corvette
    8:43 : Ropucha Class landing ship
    9:48 : Gepard Class Corvette
    10:16: Nanuchka Class Corvette
    Steregushchiy
    and more ....

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Honesroc on Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:24 pm


    0:53 : Admiral Gorshkov class Frigate Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Gorshkov
    2:45 :Smolnyy or Smol'nyy (Russian Смольный) class of training ships
    3:21 : Oscar II class Submarine
    3:41 : Kuznetsov class Aircraft Carrier
    3:47 : Pyotr Velikiy Russian battlecruiser - Kirov Class
    4:08 : Sukhoi Su-33
    4:24 : Tarantul Class Chuvashiya (ex R-2) Corvettes
    4:25: Sovremennyy Class Admiral Ushakov
    4:45 : Admiral Grigorovich Class Frigate
    4:58 : Udaloy Class Destroyer Admiral Chabanenko
    5:45 : Mi-54
    7:58 :Buyan-M Class Corvette
    8:43 : Ropucha Class landing ship
    9:48 : Gepard Class Corvette
    10:16: Nanuchka Class Corvette
    Steregushchiy
    and more ....

    Pretty obvious that's not the Kuznetsov. Not sure why INS Vikramaditya is in there...

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  humphuy on Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:34 pm

    I'd go for the more realistic option. Build what you know instead of venturing into the wild like that. Maybe future proves me wrong.
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:30 am

    General Alexander Dvornik announced that the Southern Military District will receive 3 warships during 2017:
    -Frigate Admiral Makarov
    -Buyan-M class missile ship Vishny Volchek
    -Scout (spy) ship Ivan Khurs

    Also, it will receive additional BAL and BASTION coastal anti-ship missile systems.
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:26 am

    Frigate "Admiral Butakov". Without changes.


    The destroyer "Bespokoynyy" (620) and the LST "Ivan Gren" (135)


    "Neustrashimyy" (712) and the frigate "Admiral Makarov" (799)


    LST "Peter Morgunov" look out for "Istomin." The second arrow points to the recently "released in People" housing frigate.


    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2442617.html


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