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    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun May 05, 2019 2:25 am


    They need Navy they are actually capable of building and supporting and without having to wait several decades to even get halfway there.

    This means missile ships, corvettes and frigates.

    Karakurts for missile ships. You always need padding.

    Gorshkovs for corvettes. Reasons are obvious.

    Derzkii/Mercury for frigates.

    Steregushi has the equipment but short range. Gremashi has equipment and range but is overstuffed.

    Then you have Mercury. Has equipment (AA system, anti-ship missiles, full anti-sub package, helicopter/missile container depending on need, speedboats), has range, has better propulsion (and local one) and plenty of room for whatever comes up down the road including drones.

    The moment they put Mercury in the water and confirm it it floats they should discontinue other two and fully switch to Mercury class.


    And most importantly: these ships can be built in more than one shipyard.


    Look at Karakurts and Bykovs: they are fastest growing ship classes precisely because you have more than one shipyard on the job. And you can get benefits of having competition between shipyards this way and reward good ones with more contracts.

    No wonder UEC is fuming over Pella. They are making them look bad by bringing attention to their incompetence. It would be even better if they gave Pella contract for corvette like Mercury. Direct competition.

    Nuclear destroyers or (God forbid) carriers will be built exclusively by one shipyard, it will be crazy slow, costs wil skyrocket as always, there will be no oversight because it will be too big to fail in case of carrier (which it will) and in they end they will only have handful of them at best after insane amount of time. Just look at Kirovs for reference.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun May 05, 2019 3:08 am

    They need to be able to build and maintain and upgrade and overhaul and dock large ships, which means lots of infrastructure... a place to make them is just the start... they need somewhere to berth them and support them when they are not operational... and that means civilian ships as well as military ones.

    They don't need enormous numbers of big ships but they do need some.

    I say name the new CVN Vladimir Putin... and Putin can be entering NATO waters for the next 50-60 years... hahahaha.
    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo on Sun May 05, 2019 4:03 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    franco wrote:Probably includes non combat vessels also. During that same period of the 80 fighting vessels, there have been about 100 support vessels arrive also. Another factor that confuses the situation is the difference between a ship and a boat. Half those vessels on the list mentioned would be classified as a ship, while the rest are boats suitable for harbour and inshore operations only.  

    The first ten are related to submarines, the second 10 are actual surface combatants and the last 60 are not worth mentioning.  

    Let's arrive to 30 adding all the Buyan, that started the Kalibr revolution and the Ivan Gren.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue May 14, 2019 4:58 pm

    Construction of warships of the ocean and far sea zone for the Russian Navy as of May 1, 2019

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 22 76131_original
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    Gazputin

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    Post  Gazputin on Wed May 15, 2019 8:57 am

    Russia is probably best in nuke subs
    surface fleet ... making there ships have insane firepower for their size .... I'd do the same

    what is wrong with you people ? .... their strategy is utterly logical and brilliant ....
    to me - lots of nuke SSGNs .... and lots of small widely distributed missile ships ... a no-brainer

    meanwhile USA/NATO masturbate on the "high seas" "surface fleet domination " ... wasting endless money
    seriously ..... stop watching CNN and the BBC .....

    what amazes me about you dumb-arses is that you are cheer-leadering for exactly what the USA wants ...
    they want Russia to bankrupt itself .... trying to be bigger wankers than the USA ......

    you guys are so dumb .... seriously ... you are in the wrong century

    and lets face it ... the biggest wankers in the history of the world are the "US-of-A"
    a bunch of total twats ..... like most of you



    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed May 15, 2019 2:26 pm

    A blue water fleet can be sent anywhere on the globe and can ensure Russian interests are respected.

    They don't need thousands of ships and 20 CVNs... they could do it with two CVNs and perhaps 4-6 20K ton nuke powered destroyer/cruisers, plus maybe 24 mixed fleet of Gorshkov Frigate/Destroyer.. with maybe 6 of the current models and the remaining 18 with nuke propulsion and a 7K ton displacement and more missiles and bigger sensors.

    A couple of helicopter landing ships... 2 based on the modified Ivan Gren and perhaps 2 based on an enlarged nuclear powered Mistral type vessel with better weapons and more helos and they would be pretty much right for 1-2 surface groups that could operate anywhere on the planets oceans to ensure Russian interests (military and commercial) can't be ignored.

    It is not perfect.... note how ineffective the US was in the Georgian conflict in 2008, but equally how effective US naval power was in Serbia and Kosovo and ineffective Russia was in that situation.

    Having a decent modern carrier group does not make Russia omnipotent or all powerful, but it gives them a say in situations where otherwise no one would normally listen.

    If they had the Kuznetsov and a Kirov class ship and a couple of Udaloys off the coast of Venezuela right now doing exercises with the Venezuelan navy, the US would be having a fit but what they would not be doing is talking about an invasion.

    Why would countries like Venezuela trade with Russia or China if they can't protect them from illegal regime change from the US?

    Why would anyone trade with them?

    Why do you think China is building up a Navy... they are doing so for the same reason and it has nothing to do with being tough on the internet, or to fight Russia... it is about securing sea lanes of communication and trade because America and Britain wont do it for them... except for a very heavy price of compliance and doing what they are told.... they don't like that and neither does Russia. In the EU the British and French want the choice to say no even if in the case of Britain they will never say no, but the rest have no spine at all.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Wed May 15, 2019 4:41 pm

    In the Kosovo war the bases in Italy were effective. There were even studies done by western "think tanks" that showed how ineffective the carriers were compared to the land bases.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed May 15, 2019 4:50 pm

    Hole wrote:In the Kosovo war the bases in Italy were effective. There were even studies done by western "think tanks" that showed how ineffective the carriers were compared to the land bases.

    Correct

    Land based aviation was doing 99% of damage

    If USA tried to do anything with just carrier aircrafts they would still be at it (and hardly anyone here would have been too bothered over it)

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 16, 2019 8:59 am

    My point was that depending on the situation their carriers can provide options to countries that are not available to countries that don't have carriers.

    Even having x number of carrier groups the US Navy was impotent in Georgia, but Kosovo is not that much closer to the US, yet its distance from Russia and its close proximity to its EU allies meant it had decisive influence.

    For Russia it does not have allies it can depend on abroad so if it looked like the US was about to invade venezuela then there would be nothing they could actually do without an at sea carrier or large ships. With large ships and carriers however they can send those ships and a very serious message to the west.

    The west wont let Russia have its way unless Russia can back up words with force... they don't have to attack or invade anyone, but having naval forces that can defend themselves has value for Russia in international situations... but they sure don't need 10 CVNs and they don't need to be 100K ton carriers.

    If they can get slightly better numbers and fire power in a multi hull 45K ton ship then two of those would be fine.
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu May 16, 2019 9:17 am

    Hole wrote:In the Kosovo war the bases in Italy were effective. There were even studies done by western "think tanks" that showed how ineffective the carriers were compared to the land bases.

    It makes sense if you can get a land base close to the action but that is not always the case.  A carrier aircraft dropping bombs is just as effective as a land based one.  It is all about sortie generation rate. A carrier operating 200km from the target area can turn around fighters faster than a land base 1000km away.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu May 16, 2019 11:34 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Hole wrote:In the Kosovo war the bases in Italy were effective. There were even studies done by western "think tanks" that showed how ineffective the carriers were compared to the land bases.

    It makes sense if you can get a land base close to the action but that is not always the case.  A carrier aircraft dropping bombs is just as effective as a land based one.  It is all about sortie generation rate.  A carrier operating 200km from the target area can turn around fighters faster than a land base 1000km away.  

    Re-supplying a carrier is much more difficult and costly. Helicopters can bring some foods but what can supply it with 1t bombs and 4-5m missiles.

    Landing with not used bomb is risky also. If the deck is dammaged bye bye your air force.

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    Post  marat on Thu May 16, 2019 5:26 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Re-supplying a carrier is much more difficult and costly. Helicopters can bring some foods but what can supply it with 1t bombs and 4-5m missiles.

    Landing with not used bomb is risky also. If the deck is dammaged bye bye your air force.


    Yes, but it is more complicated and costly to "move" your air base 1000 km away from its location.
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu May 16, 2019 10:37 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Re-supplying a carrier is much more difficult and costly. Helicopters can bring some foods but what can supply it with 1t bombs and 4-5m missiles.

    Landing with not used bomb is risky also. If the deck is dammaged bye bye your air force.

    That is what transport helicopters with ramps are for.  The Caiman can deliver a spare M88 engine or ASMP-A internally, or sling 4t underneath.

    In the case of Libya, the MN leased C-2 Greyhounds to keep the CdG on station but the addition of Caiman in 2016 made that no longer necessary.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri May 17, 2019 12:05 am

    A CVN doesn't need to carry fuel for itself so its fuel tanks are for aviation fuel... it is also a reason why I argue with PD and others about the size of the carrier... a bigger carrier can carry a lot more aircraft but also a lot more fuel and munitions.

    The amount of fuel and munitions it carries will be limited by its capacity, but you can extend operational potential by carrying 60 planes instead of 90, and using the extra space for stores or helicopters to transfer munitions and fuel and equipment.

    All surface action groups will need support ships to provide fuel for their helicopters and ammo and food and fresh water and a thousand other things they need to provide normal operations... they will have quite a few dedicated large ships for the purpose.

    BTW having to support something is not a good reason to decide you don't need it or shouldn't have it...

    Having AWACS type aircraft operating from catapult systems means a transport aircraft could also land and take off from the ship if needed, but having a ship come along side and transfer by crane and pipe transfers of fuels is much faster and more efficient.

    Pallets of food and equipment could simply be placed on the deck of a carrier and moved inside via aircraft lifts using forklift type vehicles...
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:53 am

    Ship composition of the Russian Navy (warships of rank 1-2, NK - from 2000 tons full.) On 06/01/2019

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 22 79191_original

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 22 79381_original
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:41 am

    Statistics: the main ship of the Russian Navy as of 07/01/2019

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 22 93659_10
    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 22 94613_10

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/212313.html
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:39 pm

    Construction of warships of the ocean and far sea zone for the Russian Navy as of 27.07.2019

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 22 95874_10

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/212933.html
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:29 pm

    https://tass.com/defense/1074729/amp

    Russia will receive 6 submarines in 2020.

    Very good power up for their navy !
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:26 pm

    Construction of warships of the ocean and far sea zone for the Russian Navy on 09/01/2019

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 22 10318510

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/215585.html
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:33 pm

    Construction of warships of the ocean and distant sea zone for the Russian Navy on 10/01/2019

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/218939.html



    The naval composition of the Russian Navy (warships of the main classes) on 10/01/2019

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/219552.html

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