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    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  eehnie on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:14 am

    PREVIEW OF CHANGES IN THE COMBAT FLEET OF THE RUSSIAN NAVY 2018-2027

    As explained before, Russia has been doing a process of reduction of the fleet since the end of the Soviet Union. Russia has been selecting the best mix of ships to keep from the fleet of the Soviet Union while decommissioning the less modern and less useful ships. For it, Russia decommissioned a good amount of young ships, something that only makes sense in a process of reduction of the fleet (otherwise is a strong source of money loses).

    Taking into account the data of the last years, the process of reduction of the combat fleet is about to be finished. Still there is some early decommission. In overall terms it seems that Russia to begin the next stage of stability for its fleet.

    2016 Decommissions: Total = 5

    1 Project 667BDR Nuclear Submarine (commissioned 1979)
    1 Project 641B Conventional Submarine (commissioned 1982)
    1 Project 877 Conventional Submarine (commissioned 1984)
    1 Project 956 5000-10000 tons Warship (commissioned 1990)
    1 Project 12421 15-500 tons Warship (commissioned 2000, sale to Egypt)

    2016 Commissions: Total = 5

    2 Project 06363 Conventional Submarines
    2 Project 11356 1500-5000 tons Warship Frigates
    1 Project 12700 >500 tons Minesweeper

    2017 Decommisssions: Total = 3

    1 Project 667BDR Nuclear Submarine (commissioned 1980)
    1 Project 11351 1500-5000 tons Warship (commissioned 1991, Russian Coast Guard)
    1 Project 12411 15-500 tons Warship (commissioned 1987)

    2017 Commissions: Total = 2

    1 Project 11356 1500-5000 tons Warship
    1 Project 20380/20385 1500-5000 tons Warship

    2018 Decommisssions: Total = 6

    1 Project 1332 >500 tons Minesweeper (commissioned 1973)
    1 Project 956 5000-10000 tons Warship (commissioned 1991)
    4 Project 13000 15-500 tons Minesweeper (commissioned 1985, 1987, 1989, 1991)

    2018 Commissions: Total = 3

    1 Project 21631 500-1500 tons Warship
    1 Project 11711 >500 tons Amphibious ship
    1 Project 22350 5000-10000 tons Warship

    There is a good ballance between commissions and decommissions in this period, taking into account that the decommissions by reduction would have not a related commission:

    4 - Project 13000 15-500 tons Minesweeper (commissioned 1985, 1987, 1989, 1991) <------------------> Reduction
    1 - Project 641B Conventional Submarine (commissioned 1982) <---------------------------------------------> 1 - Project 06363 Conventional Submarine
    1 - Project 877 Conventional Submarine (commissioned 1984) <-----------------------------------------------> 1 - Project 06363 Conventional Submarine
    1 - Project 1332 >500 tons Minesweeper (commissioned 1973) <----------------------------------------------->1 - Project 12700 >500 tons Minesweeper
    1 - Project 956 5000-10000 tons Warship (commissioned 1991) <----------------------------------------------> 1 - Project 22350 5000-10000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 11351 1500-5000 tons Warship (commissioned 1991, Russian Coast Guard) <---------------> 1 - Project 11356 1500-5000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 956 5000-10000 tons Warship (commissioned 1990) <----------------------------------------------> 1 - Project 11356 1500-5000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 12421 15-500 tons Warship (commissioned 2000, sale to Egypt) <-------------------------------> 1 - Project 11356 1500-5000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 12411 15-500 tons Warship (commissioned 1987) <-------------------------------------------------> 1 - Project 20380/20385 1500-5000 tons Warship
    2 - Project 667BDR Nuclear Submarine (commissioned 1979, 1980) <---------------------------------------> Likely pending commissions
    Likely pending decommission <-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> 1 - Project 21631 500-1500 tons Warship
    Likely pending decommission <-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> 1 - Project 11711 >500 tons Amphibious ship

    The next stage for the Combat Fleet of the Russian Navy is a phase of stability. After a phase of reduction of the fleet the alone logical step is a phase of stability. A country does not decommission young ships to build inmediately big amounts of new ships. This is a bad business. In the following years, Russia will likely do a number of commissions very close to the number of decommissions. And this number will be low because Russia has a this point very low number of old ships.

    For the period between 2018-2027, these are the ships that I expect to go to decommission and/or scrapping:

    1 - Project 641B Conventional Submarine (1 captured to Ukraine)
    1 - Project 1134B 5000-10000 tons Warship
    4 - Project 1204 15-500 tons Warship
    1 - Project 61/01090 1500-5000 tons Warship
    4 - Project 1171 >500 tons Amphibious Ships
    7 - Project 266 >500 tons Minesweeper (2 captured to Ukraine)
    2 - Project 775 >500 tons Amphibious Ship
    3 - Project 1176 15-500 tons Amphibious Ship (2 of them early decommission of ships ruined in the Coast Guard)
    1 - Project 697 15-500 tons Minesweeper
    1 - Project 1259 15-500 tons Minesweeper (early decommission

    It means 22 decommissions by age and 3 early decommissions by reduction. More decomissions and/or scrapping would be negative.

    This is what can be expected for the period 2018-2027. It is logical then, a reduction of the budget for the Russian Navy in the new program.

    This is the complete list of ships under construction updated. It includes the ships not completed, which construction can be stopped, but have not been scrapped. Some of the ships can be to export:

    By generic role:

    64 - Warships:
    1 - Project 1135 1500-5000 tons Warship (1 of them not-completed)
    1 - Project 1234 500-1500 tons Warship (1 of them not-completed)
    4 - Project 1124 500-1500 tons Warship (4 of them not-completed)
    6 - Project 12411/12417/12418/1241RE 15-500 tons Warship
    1 - Project 1144 >10000 tons Warship (1 of them not-completed)
    1 - Project 1239 500-1500 tons Warship (1 of them not-completed)
    3 - Project 11540 1500-5000 tons Warship (2 of them not-completed)
    1 - Project 11356 1500-5000 tons Warship
    2 - Project 11660/11661 1500-5000 tons Warship (1 of them not-completed)
    9 - Project 20380/20385 1500-5000 tons Warship
    7 - Project 21631 500-1500 tons Warship (1 of them not-completed)
    5 - Project 22350 5000-10000 tons Warship
    11 - Project 22800 500-1500 tons Warship
    6 - Project 22160 1500-5000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 12300 15-500 tons Warship
    2 - Project 20386 1500-5000 tons Warship
    2 - Project 23550 5000-10000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 23560 >10000 tons Warship
    0 - Project 23000 Aircraft Carrier Warship

    36 - Submarines:
    1 - Project 671 RTM Nuclear Submarnie (1 of the not-completed)
    6 - Project 949/09852 Nuclear Submarine (5 of them not-completed)
    8 - Project 636/06363/877/08773 Conventional Submarine (2 of them not-completed)
    1 - Project 945 Nuclear Submarine (1 of them not-completed)
    6 - Project 971 Nuclear Submarine (6 of them not-completed)
    2 - Project 677 Conventional Submarine
    5 - Project 955 Nuclear Submarine
    6 - Project 885/08851 Nuclear Submarine
    1 - Project 09851 Nuclear Special Submarine

    9 - Amphibious:
    1 - Project 1171 >500 tons Amphibious Ship (1 of them not-completed)
    1 - Project 12322 >500 tons Amphibious Ship (1 of them not-completed)
    6 - Project 21820 15-500 tons Amphibious Ship
    1 - Project 11711 >500 tons Amphibious Ship

    23 - Minesweepers:
    3 - Project 266 >500 tons Minesweeper (3 of them not-completed)
    4 - Project 1265 15-500 tons Minesweeper (1 of them not-completed)
    1 - Project 12660 >500 tons Minesweeper (1 of them not-completed)
    6 - Project 10750 15-500 tons Minesweeper
    2 - Project 12255 15-500 tons Minesweeper (1 of them not-completed)
    7 - Project 12700 >500 tons Minesweeper

    132 - Ships under construction (35 of them not-completed) Some maybe to export.

    The list is far longer than the needs in the short and mid term, but also this long list of ships under construction is part of the strategy of Russia, that only would need to increase the rythm of production in case of problems. The slow rythm of production and commission of new ships is part of the military strategy of Russia, this is not a consequence of bad management or lack of efficiency like some people want to say.

    It is in the interest of Russia to complete the also the ships which construction has not been completed, in order to avoid loses.

    Taking into account the role of the ships to be decommissioned, the ships with most advanced status of production, and the most likely models for a well balanced distribution of the Russian fleet, my estimation (finding a minimum) for the construction of new combat ships would be of 23 new combat ships until the end of 2027, 2.556 per year on average. The question is which of these 132 ships can be part of the around 23 combat ships that Russia can finish and commission until the end of 2027.

    To finish the construction of the first unit of a new project is very important in order to assure the capability/hability in the production of the following ships of the project. To do it for projects avoiding redundances is even more important still, becomes key. It means, that between the ships under construction is sure to see the commission before the end of 2025 of the fist unit of the following projects:

    1 - Project 23560 >10000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 09851 Nuclear Special Submarine
    1 - Project 12300 15-500 tons Warship

    Also it is important for Russia to assure that the country is able to build modern combat ships of every cathegory. The alone cathegory out until now would be Aircraft Carriers. Russia is developing a project under the State Armament Program 2011-2020, that must be finished by 2020, Russia expects to finish the upgrading of its shipyards by 2020, and the order and begin of construction of the first unit of the Project 23000 (the timeline to present new projects finish by the end of 2018 and this is the alone project over 70000 tons known until now) is likely to be done under the State Armament Program 2018-2027:

    1 - Project 23000 Aircraf Carrier Warship

    In order to have these new projects included in the current new armament generation, it would be good to have them finished by 2025. Otherwise the new generation would have some hole. The timeline can be tight but possible for the Aircraft Carrier, and would be comfortable for the rest.

    Between all the list, these 4 combat ships are those which construction is the most important for Russia in the period 2018-2027, because its production, in adition to the military capabilities of the ships, will provide to Russia the hability to build new more modern projects of ships and even new types of ships that Russia produced not until now.

    Taking into account these 4 combat ships, the likely pending commissions and decommissions, the expectable decommissions, and taking into account that the small amphibious ships and minesweepers likely will be directed to export, the rest until 23 likely would be:

    1 - Project 885 Nuclear Submarine
    1 - Project 955 Nuclear Submarine
    1 - Project 22350 5000-10000 tons Warship
    2 - Project 20380/20385 1500-5000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 11356 1500-5000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 11711 >500 tons Amphibious Ship
    1 - Project 21820 15-500 tons Amphibious Ship
    7 - Project 12700 >500 tons Minesweeper
    4 - Likely New order >500 tons Amphibious Ships

    Then, unles some of these new ships go to export, the most likely scheme of replacement for the period 2018-2027 would be:

    2 - Project 1176 15-500 tons Amphibious Ship <--------------------> Reduction
    1.- Project 1259 15-500 tons Minesweeper <--------------------> Reduction
    1 - Project 697 15-500 tons Minesweeper <--------------------> Reduction
    Likely pending commission <-----------------------> 1 - Project 885 Nuclear Submarine
    Likely pending commission <-----------------------> 1 - Project 955 Nuclear Submarine
    1 - Project 1204 15-500 tons Warship <----------------------------> Likely pending decommission
    1 - Project 1171 >500 tons Amphibious Ship <--------------------> Likely pending decommission
    1 - Project 641B SSK Conventional Submarine  <-----------------------> 1 - Project 09851 Special Nuclear Submarine
    1 - Project 1134B 5000-10000 tons Warship <-------------------------> 1 - Project 22350 5000-10000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 1204 15-500 tons Warship <----------------------------> 1 - Project 12300 15-500 tons Warship
    2 - Project 1204 15-500 tons Warship <----------------------------> 2 - Project 20380/20385 1500-5000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 61/01090 1500-5000 tons Warship <----------------------> 1 - Project 11356 1500-5000 tons Warship
    1 - Project 1171 >500 tons Amphibious Ship <--------------------> 1 - Project 11711 >500 tons Amphibious Ship
    1 - Project 1171 >500 tons Amphibious Ship <--------------------> 1 - Project 1171 >500 tons Amphibious Ship
    1 - Project 1171 >500 tons Amphibious Ship <--------------------> 1 - Project 12322 >500 tons Amphibious Ship
    1 - Project 1176 15-500 tons Amphibious Ship <--------------------> 1 - Project 21820 15-500 tons Amphibious Ship
    3 - Project 266 >500 tons Minesweeper <------------------------------> 3 - Project 266 >500 tons Minesweeper
    4 - Project 266 >500 tons Minesweeper <------------------------------> 4 - Project 12700 >500 tons Minesweeper
    2 - Project 775 >500 tons Amphibious Ship <--------------------> 2 - Likely new order >500 tons Amphibious Ship
    Not linked to decommissions <----------------------> 1 - Project 23560 Over 10000 tons Warship
    Not linked to decommissions <----------------------> 1 - Project 23000 Aircraf Carrier Warship


    That would:
    - Keep stable the combat ship fleet of Russia (in 300 ships).
    - Keep stable the balance between the sips of different roles.
    - Cover the replacement of the oldest ships (with 50 years old by 2027).
    - Reinforce the overall strenght of the fleet.
    - Assure that Russia is able of producing by 2025 modern ships of every type of combat ship. http://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p25-state-armament-program-2018-2025#208063
    - Avoid the early retirement of more young ships.
    - To keep stable the human force of the Russian Navy, that would continue in the same level, with the reduction of its fleet of auxiliary ships that is not finished still.

    Is this over optimistic? No, the alone ship that can have a narrow timeline would be the Aircraft Carrier, but the low need on other types of ships in this period helps to do a bigger effort on this project. It is about to attend priorities.

    New orders of ships under the State Armament Program 2018-2027? Taking into account the previous analysis, is likely to see new orders of:
    Aircraft Carrier Warship (Project 23000, likely as commented)
    >500 tons Amphibious ships (Project 11711 or the project of the next generation)
    And maybe more

    Modernization of current ships? Yes. Upgrade to the new types of missiles and to make them multirole if possible.

    Modernization of the older projects in order to finish the last units under construction? Yes.

    It is possible that Russia can afford to finish the construction of more ships in 2018-2027? Maybe, specially between the ships currently launched. Less important than the modernization of current ships.

    Design and development of new types of ships? Limited to ships for the next generation after 2025 because for the current generation would generate redundancies. Those most directly inspired by the Russian Maritime Doctrine of 2015 would be the main options:
    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p50-state-armament-program-2018-2025#211922
    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p50-state-armament-program-2018-2025#211924


    Last edited by eehnie on Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:08 pm; edited 16 times in total
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:36 am

    Priboi (Mistralski) update:
    ..the ship is clearly intended for defence purposes to protect the extensive coastline along the Arctic Ocean, or in the Black Sea and along the chain of Kuril Islands. The ship is not designed to travel across oceans, and this is where the 6,000 mile range comes from.
    See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/
    From the horse's mouth:
    https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont
    Modernization of 2 CGNs will still take less time than building 5–6 new FFGs or 10 corvettes, which won't have NP. The Leader class is still on paper but very far from becoming tangible. Time will tell!
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Militarov on Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:00 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Priboi (Mistralski) update:
    ..the ship is clearly intended for defence purposes to protect the extensive coastline along the Arctic Ocean, or in the Black Sea and along the chain of Kuril Islands. The ship is not designed to travel across oceans, and this is where the 6,000 mile range comes from.
    See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/
    From the horse's mouth:
    https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont
    Modernization of 2 CGNs will still take less time than building 5–6 new FFGs or 10 corvettes, which won't have NP. The Leader class is still on paper but very far from becoming tangible. Time will tell!

    Some people on this forum have proof that Leader is being built already, stop spreading anti-Russian propaganda please.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:00 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Priboi (Mistralski) update:
    ..the ship is clearly intended for defence purposes to protect the extensive coastline along the Arctic Ocean, or in the Black Sea and along the chain of Kuril Islands. The ship is not designed to travel across oceans, and this is where the 6,000 mile range comes from.
    See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/
    From the horse's mouth:
    https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont
    Modernization of 2 CGNs will still take less time than building 5–6 new FFGs or 10 corvettes, which won't have NP. The Leader class is still on paper but very far from becoming tangible. Time will tell!

    Some people on this forum have proof that Leader is being built already, stop spreading anti-Russian propaganda please.

    "Now the deadline for laying the head "Leader" has been postponed already in 2025, which means that under the new State Program of 2018-2027, this issue will not receive significant funding. At one time there were even rumors that the "Leader" was simply deleted from the painting of GPV-2027, but then it was decided to allocate "some money to support the project."

    This is nothing new, I already knew all of this.

    Still poor Enhiee the guy must be in the fetal position right now. If only I had it in me to feel an ounce of pity.


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:17 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    "Now the deadline for laying the head "Leader" has been postponed already in 2025, which means that under the new State Program of 2018-2027, this issue will not receive significant funding. At one time there were even rumors that the "Leader" was simply deleted from the painting of GPV-2027, but then it was decided to allocate "some money to support the project."

    This is nothing new, I already knew all of this.

    Still poor Enhiee the guy must be int he fiddle position right now. If only I had it in me to feel an ounce of pity.


    Well IMHO this is just logical : first access denial - via MRKs or subs + later  aviation (new GUZR + Kh50) ,then thinking about representing Russian flag on far and away oceans. Helicopter carriers IMHO will mostly have ASW function long  Northern Route.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  eehnie on Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:11 pm

    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_23560.htm

    This database includes not projects of ships that reached not the construction phase. As example you will not find still in the database the Project 23000, the Project Priboi, the Project Lavina, the Project Kalina, the project Husky, the Project 22500,...

    After looking about every project, I found no-one case in the database where they say a project reached the prodction phase, but is not right. My experience is that their work is right in overall terms and I found not a mistake of the importance of whicht you are accusing them of. For me the source is reliable in overall terms, unlike your word. And is one of the bests, if not the best.

    If you want to dispute the source, you can try to find in the database one case more where the database says that a project reached the production phase but is not true.



    Last edited by eehnie on Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:09 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:35 pm

    Any project can exist on paper/computer file or in the heads of interest groups/designers for many years before they materialize or, in many cases, cancelled/curtailed. That's what happened to US Seawolf SSN (only 3 built) & Enterprise class CVN (only 1 built):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawolf-class_submarine
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(CVN-65)
    The list is very long:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cancelled_ships_of_the_United_States_Navy
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Abandoned_military_projects_of_the_United_States

    The USSR had many cancelled project as well:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Abandoned_military_aircraft_projects_of_the_Soviet_Union
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovetsky_Soyuz-class_battleship
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_1153_Orel
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_aircraft_carrier_Ulyanovsk

    If it makes u feel good about those projects we r discussing, hold ur breath & pray they r not cancelled before u grow old!
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Militarov on Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:03 am

    eehnie wrote:http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_23560.htm

    This database includes not projects of ships that reached not the construction phase. As example you will not find still in the database the Project 23000, the Project Priboi, the Project Lavina, the Project Kalina, the project Husky, the Project 22500,...

    After looking about every project, I found no-one case in the database where they say a project reached the prodction phase, but is not right. My experience is that their work is right in overall terms and I found not a mistake of the importance of whicht you are accusing them of. For me the source is reliable in overall terms, unlike your word. And is one of the bests, if not the best.

    If you want to dispute the source, you can try to find in the database one case more where the database says that a project reached the production phase but is not true.

    Drop dead.
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    George1

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    navy construction plan

    Post  George1 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:16 am

    The ship's composition of the Russian Navy (combat ships of 1-2 rank, NK - from 2,000 tons full) on 01-02.02.2018





    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/182204.html
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:57 am

    Some1 wrote that "the Baltic & Black Seas r lagoons" & therefore won't need big fleets. I don't agree. They both support deployments to the Med. Sea & occasionally to the Indian Ocean.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-baltic-fleet-will-get-new-missile-corvette-and-bombers-2017-5
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-defence-baltic-sweden/russia-beefs-up-baltic-fleet-amid-nato-tensions-reports-idUSKCN12Q1HB
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet#Additions_of_ships_to_the_Fleet

    Between the 2 seas, the internal waterways r not deep for most of them & that's why 5 SSKs so far went around Europe to its new base in the BSF: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91-261_%C2%AB%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%C2%BB#%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B1%D0%B0
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Deep_Water_System_of_European_Russia
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91-237_%C2%AB%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%83%C2%BB#%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B1%D0%B0
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91-262_%C2%AB%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%9E%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%C2%BB#%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B1%D0%B0
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91-265_%C2%AB%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%C2%BB#%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B1%D0%B0
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91-268_%C2%AB%D0%92%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%C2%BB#%D0%98%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B1%D1%8B

    The Belomorkanal is also too small for the NF to reinforce the Baltic Fleet w/o going around Scandinavia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sea%E2%80%93Baltic_Canal

    So, they both need bigger fleets for sustainability & flexibility; otherwise, the N. & Pac. Fleets will have to plug the gaps in the Med.& Red Seas & the Indian Ocean, like the CG Varyag did off Syria!

    https://pulaski.pl/en/russian-anti-access-area-denial-a2ad-capabilities-implications-for-nato/
    Rebuttal: http://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2018-.02-22/1_985_west.html?print=Y
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Kimppis on Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:07 pm

    Tsavo Lion, you link a lot of Western MSM BS about Russia and China for some reason, but this one is really good:

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Rebuttal: http://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2018-.02-22/1_985_west.html?print=Y

    Terms like A2/AD and hybrid warfare are indeed basically meaningless and "pseudo-scientific" concepts that are pure propaganda, "Gerasimov Doctrine" doesn't actually exist, etc. The author is on point. Although funnily enough he also criticizes the Color Revolution concept, which is very popular among Russophiles/anti-Americans: "At the same time, the followers of this concept, as a rule, diligently ignore the fact that no external influence will lead to a revolution if there are no internal prerequisites for it."

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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:29 pm

    He could also mention "private security companies" & Russian ChVK, i.e. mercenaries-dozens reportedly died earlier E. Ukraine & in Syria recently: https://www.google.com/search?q=mercenaries&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmoYb5n8TZAhVH4mMKHdxpA5sQ_AUICygC&biw=819&bih=510

    It's also ancient practice- the hired Greeks fought for Egypt & Persia, Celts for Greeks, the Swiss & Germans for other Europeans, the others for S. Africa, & in Asia & elsewhere:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary#Private_military_and_security_companies
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:45 am

    India to buy four upgraded Krivak III frigates for $3B
    http://www.janes.com/article/78204/india-to-buy-four-upgraded-krivak-iii-frigates-for-usd3-billion

    I'm sure they plan, as before, to build some more of their own as well!-
    On 12 October 2010, it was announced that the Yantar Yard at Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea had won a contract to construct three new warships for the Russian Navy. The construction of the frigates for the Russian Navy will be carried out in parallel with the construction of the same-type frigates for the Indian Navy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivak-class_frigate

    Project 11356P/M (Admiral Grigorovich)
    Six frigates of the Admiral Grigorovich-class were ordered [3 delivered] for the Black Sea Fleet to be built by the Yantar Yard in Kaliningrad which is also building the Talwar-class for the Indian Navy. [6 delivered, 10 planned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talwar-class_frigate]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivak-class_frigate#Project_11356P/M_(Admiral_Grigorovich)

    Will any more of them be need in the RuN after the remaining 3 r delivered to the BSF?
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:22 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:He could also mention "private security companies" & Russian ChVK, i.e. mercenaries-dozens reportedly died earlier E. Ukraine & in Syria recently: https://www.google.com/search?q=mercenaries&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmoYb5n8TZAhVH4mMKHdxpA5sQ_AUICygC&biw=819&bih=510

    It's also ancient practice- the hired Greeks fought for Egypt & Persia, Celts for Greeks, the Swiss & Germans for other Europeans, the others for S. Africa, & in Asia & elsewhere:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary#Private_military_and_security_companies

    Please this shit is form France24, Business insider and Ukro-reich ! especially "died in Ukraine" . But never any proofs presented... BTW Academia has security guards or contractors never mercenaries. Interesting isnt it?
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  George1 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:48 am

    Construction of warships of the ocean and far sea for the Russian Navy as of 01.03.2018



    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/184140.html
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:10 pm

    Lights blue touch paper.

    In early 2010s the successes in Russian military buildup triggered an euphoria. It was characterized by calls to resume the production of missile-carrying trains, sea skimmers, air-cushioned ships and total upgrade of the fleet inherited from the USSR. However, it should be admitted now that the program had failed, expert Alexander Shishkin writes in the Vzglyad business newspaper.

    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/6006-russia-s-modernization-of-soviet-era-vessels-facing-problems-part-1.html
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:52 am

    Report from PJSC Shipyard "Severnaya Verf" (Under construction ships)

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3113976.html

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:16 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Lights blue touch paper.

    In early 2010s the successes in Russian military buildup triggered an euphoria. It was characterized by calls to resume the production of missile-carrying trains, sea skimmers, air-cushioned ships and total upgrade of the fleet inherited from the USSR. However, it should be admitted now that the program had failed, expert Alexander Shishkin writes in the Vzglyad business newspaper.

    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/6006-russia-s-modernization-of-soviet-era-vessels-facing-problems-part-1.html

    Well Vzglyad is more like "bloggers digest" - no own news just digested and commented from other sources. End ths expert is AFAIK just a nave engineer nobody who runs any industrial activity.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:58 pm

    Construction of warships of the ocean and far sea for the Russian Navy as of 04/01/2018

    Information was used from reports of the Ministry of Defense of Russia, information agencies, press services of shipyard enterprises; from factory newspapers; from websites, blogs and forums on naval, military and military-industrial topics.



    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/186716.html
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:42 pm

    Question for George: after Ivan Gren commision next month, can we expect decomissions of some Aligator LSTs from 1960s?
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:29 am

    verkhoturye51 wrote:Question for George: after Ivan Gren commission next month, can we expect decommissions of some Aligator LSTs from 1960s?

    i have no idea.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  eehnie on Thu May 17, 2018 4:58 am

    http://tass.com/defense/1004641

    Russian shipbuilders to present designs of new aircraft carrier by yearend

    Military & Defense May 16, 20:32 UTC+3

    If one of the designs is approved, the experimental design work on the new aircraft carrier may begin in 2019, the source said

    MOSCOW, May 16. /TASS/. The United Ship-Building Corporation will present several finalized preliminary designs of a new domestic aircraft carrier to the Defense Ministry by the end of this year, a source in the defense sector told TASS on Wednesday.

    If one of the designs is approved, the experimental design work on the new aircraft carrier may begin in 2019, the source said.

    "The United Ship-Building Corporation has been instructed to submit its finalized proposals [on the new aircraft carrier] to the Defense Ministry for examination by the end of the year. One of the versions envisage, in particular, building an aircraft carrier with a displacement of 75,000 tonnes," the source said.

    If one of the designs is approved, "the ship’s technical designing and the preparation of the design documentation may begin from 2019 and the aircraft carrier may be laid down in 2021-2022 and its construction will last about 10 years, according to preliminary estimates," the source explained.

    Russia’s state armament program for 2018-2027 stipulates "initial financing" under the new carrier’s program.

    The United Ship-Building Corporation did not comment for TASS on the information provided by the source.

    The Russian Navy currently operates the sole medium-size oil-fueled aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov (the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser according to the domestic classification). As the Russian Navy stated before, the fleet expects to get a cutting-edge nuclear-powered aircraft carrier with a displacement of no less than 70,000 tonnes by late 2030.

    The Krylov State Research Center earlier designed and unveiled a preliminary design of an aircraft carrier for foreign customers, which was also offered for the domestic Navy. Project 23000 was named Storm. Its sketch design suggests the aircraft carrier will displace 80,000-90,000 tonnes and feature a combined powerplant (both the nuclear reactor and the gas turbine engine). The carrier’s air group is expected to comprise up to 60 aircraft.

    To compare this with previous news:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p75-state-armament-program-2018-2027#217671
    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p75-state-armament-program-2018-2027#217835

    that were deleted from this topic by George1 and called pollution:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7201p50-discussion-about-construction-or-not-of-ac-destroyers-cruisers-for-runavy#217889
    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7201p50-discussion-about-construction-or-not-of-ac-destroyers-cruisers-for-runavy#218000

    The pollution was instead in the insults of the people that were allowed by him and GarryB to insult me because of exposing a lot of reality in this forum and this topic.

    You was full wrong George1 only rest to you to recognize it.

    The reality always comes to put the wrong arguments in the right place.

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Austin on Thu May 17, 2018 10:09 am

    Vladimir Putin discussed the problems of rearmament of the Navy

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3201649.html

    As Ivan Safronov writes in the article "Cephalopod" surfaced in Bocharov Creek , published in the newspaper Kommersant , on Wednesday, in the presence of President Vladimir Putin, military and industry representatives discussed the problems of cooperation of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), because of which the deadlines execution of the state defense order. The military repeatedly raised this issue at internal meetings, but the situation remained almost unchanged. The president's intervention is designed to prevent similar problems in the implementation of the new state armament program until 2027, in which trillions of rubles are allocated for the development of the Navy.

    Opening the meeting, Vladimir Putin recalled that the Navy is "the most important factor in the country's military, economic security, maintaining strategic parity" and "in general, a significant tool for ensuring our national interests." The latter included, in particular, the actions of ships and submarines that struck during the military operation in Syria strikes on positions of the militants with cruise missiles of the "Caliber" type from the waters of the Mediterranean and Caspian seas. "We will continue to equip the Navy with the latest systems of weapons, communications, reconnaissance and target designation." As before, the quality requirements, the deadlines for fulfilling the tasks of the state defense order should remain the most stringent, "the president said, recognizing" problematic issues "with both the creation of new equipment and the repair of the already delivered equipment. Then the meeting continued in a closed mode for the press:

    The main topic of the meeting was the execution of the state defense order by enterprises that are part of the USC cooperation, two sources of Kommersant in the shipbuilding industry and an official close to the leadership of the Defense Ministry say. The military is concerned about the negative statistics of the failure of the terms of contracts for the supply of ships and submarines, provided timely advance and payment, one of the interlocutors of Kommersant admits.

    For this reason, not only high-ranking military officers (acting Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, Deputy Minister for Armaments Yuri Borisov, Navy Commander Vladimir Korolyov, etc.) were summoned to Sochi and the industry leadership (OSK President Alexei Rakhmanov and acting Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov), but the managers of the enterprises of the shipbuilding industry - Sevmash, Severnaya Verf, Zvezda and TsKB of marine engineering Rubin.

    Re-equipment of the Navy was one of the priorities of the previous state program of armaments: in 2011-2020, the fleet planned to allocate about 4.7 trillion rubles, of which almost half were to go for serial purchases of new weapons and equipment. However, by early 2018, only three of the eight strategic nuclear submarines of Project 955 Borei (the standard carrier of the Bulava ICBM) and one of the seven multi-purpose submarines of Project 885 Yasen (carrier of cruise missiles) were introduced into the Navy. The situation was no better with combat surface ships: according to the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, the Navy received only four frigates and eleven corvettes (of 15 and 35 ordered accordingly) during this time. According to the interlocutor of "Kommersant" in the industry, in part the problems are objective:

    In February, March and May, during the conference calls, Sergei Shoigu criticized USC enterprises, accusing them of disrupting the terms of their obligations under contracts, but, according to the Kommersant source, the situation did not improve, so the discussion reached the presidential level. Meanwhile, in the new state armament program until 2027 (about 4 trillion rubles in the part of the Navy) there are extremely important projects that can not be "shifted to the right" under any circumstances, the source of Kommersant in the department continues, - the construction of strategic nuclear submarines " Borey B, multi-purpose submarines of the fifth generation of the Husky type (carrier of hypersonic missiles Zirkon), non-nuclear submarines Kalina. Under special control, according to "Kommersant", there are projects of underwater drones such as "Cephalopod" and "Status-6"

    According to the expert of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Konstantin Makienko, USC has a number of old problems, which it is unlikely to solve in the existing model of the industry management. But you can try to focus on projects that are key to the country's defense capability (strategic and multi-purpose nuclear submarines) or are already launched into the series, the expert believes.
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    LMFS

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  LMFS on Thu May 17, 2018 2:42 pm

    I have read that the productivity of Russian shipyards is 20% of international mean value... from the values in Austin's post and notwithstanding the issue with the engines, the situation seems a complete disaster...

    Any idea, why all those problems? Have they already solved them for GPV 2027?
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Hole on Thu May 17, 2018 4:15 pm

    A lot has to do with politics and the Navy not knowing what it wants.

    You start building a ship and than someone comes and tells you: "Stop using this or that component, because it´s foreign" or part of your suppliers stops delivering items because you are in Russia... Well, that´s not good for productivity.

    Then look at the Steregutschij. Series production in the first yard was accelerating, then comes the Navy and wants the ships with cruise missiles. The yard stops production, the ship is redesingned and the production starts over again. But years are lost. Same with the Gren. First the Navy wants six vessels, mostly for coastal and littoral areas. But it should be well armed. Than they change their mind, reduce the weapon load, just to save a few bucks. Then Medveded/Serdukhov come along and decide, that the Mistral will be bought. The production is stopped for years.

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    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

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