Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Share
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5611
    Points : 5715
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:02 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Is it because it's a different time now & there's no Stalin & Beria anymore to shoot/send them to GULAG for slow completion of orders? What would make them better? New equipment? More qualified management, personnel & yards?  

    Oh solution is simple: give contracts to shipyards who get results. Right now they give out contracts based on tradition. Shipyards in Kaliningrad and one in St. Pete should have been liquidated by now given their performance.

    Look at Pella: first Naval vessel ever and it's out on time. Take away contracts from shitty shipyards and give it to them.

    Find others like them and repeat the process. And build ship classes in more than one shipyard.
    avatar
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 211
    Points : 213
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:46 pm

    What about capital ships that can be built only in big drydocks like in Nikolaev, now in Ukraine? To build them & req. infrastructure also takes many years. If they didn't have to build all those new icebreakers, do u think the new warships could be there sooner?
    OTH, RF has her nuclear triad & can do w/o big surface fleet, especially now as the Chinese Navy will keep JMSDF & USN busy in W. Pac. & possibly elsewhere!
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5557
    Points : 5598
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Militarov on Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:19 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:What about capital ships that can be built only in big drydocks like in Nikolaev, now in Ukraine? To build them & req. infrastructure also takes many years. If they didn't have to build all those new icebreakers, do u think the new warships could be there sooner?
    OTH, RF has her nuclear triad & can do w/o big surface fleet, especially now as the Chinese Navy will keep JMSDF & USN busy in W. Pac. & possibly elsewhere!

    Even if they somehow suddenly got access to all the required infrastructure to build capital ships they would need time to develop many technologies from scratch. So capital ships would still be on fairly long stick. But seems that in few shipyards infrastructure is being slowly renewed and new shipyard is being built so that will be covered though next decade hopefully.

    Well... i wouldnt look at China as much of an ally tbh Smile
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5611
    Points : 5715
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:58 am

    .
    Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

    Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

    Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

    Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1420
    Points : 1421
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:40 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:.
    Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

    Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

    Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

    Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

    I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
    Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5611
    Points : 5715
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:49 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.
    Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

    Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

    Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

    Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

    I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
    Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".

    No, Super Gorshkov would only be good investment if they were building Gorshkovs en masse. But they are not. They aren't even building any, they are just finishing old order placed in bygone era.

    It's been years since they even placed order for a frigate, let alone laid one down. Something is seriously wrong here. Ukrainian engine excuse no longer flies since it's been resolved.

    They have Gorshkov project up and running. They should be building more of them instead of chasing yet another pie in the sky like Super Gorshkov. How many decades until they get first Super Gorshkov built let alone delivered? Their entire fleet will rust away by then.

    And when I say missile ship I mean stuff like Buyans and Karakurts.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5557
    Points : 5598
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Militarov on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:01 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.
    Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

    Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

    Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

    Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

    I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
    Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".

    Super Gorshkovs wouldnt be capital ships tho.
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1420
    Points : 1421
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:18 pm

    Dude, i am not saying they should stop building Gorshkovs, it's just that the SG could also be built, it should take less time and money to build than it would take to build the Lider, while also being able to fulfill the role of both Destroyer and Cruiser, a good investment IMO.

    Yea, those are Corvettes.
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3204
    Points : 3327
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:30 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.
    Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

    Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

    Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

    Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

    I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
    Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".

    No, Super Gorshkov would only be good investment if they were building Gorshkovs en masse. But they are not. They aren't even building any, they are just finishing old order placed in bygone era.

    It's been years since they even placed order for a frigate, let alone laid one down. Something is seriously wrong here. Ukrainian engine excuse no longer flies since it's been resolved.

    The monetarist lunatics are running the asylum in Russia. Every penny needs to be pinched. Because other interested parties
    have first dibs on these pennies. As usual, Russia and Russians are at the bottom of the list for consideration.

    People on this board for the most part can't read or understand Russian. So they do not see the insanity of the zero deficit
    mafia in Russia. The notion of running a deficit at all is turned into some sort of end of the world scenario for Russia. They
    are actually depleting reserve funds to achieve zero deficits. Reserve funds are not for balancing budgets, they are for
    crisis situations.

    At the end of the day, Russian military procurement is facing a variant of the absence of funds back in the early 2000s. It
    is not as bad, but as you note, it is not all that mild either.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1505
    Points : 1505
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:48 pm

    That has nothing to do with it. It has more to do with not knowing what they want and what is resolved or not. Gorshkovs took forever thanks to the air defense system. Now the shipyards say this or that about a new class of ship.  The money is already available, and out of $40B in 1 year, it isn't a problem financially. It entirely based upon USC and their bullshit.  Now MoD doesn't know what they want. Only certain thing they want is the corvettes.

    This has been evident for a very, very long time.

    Some of you need to stop this hysterical bullshit of money this and that when it has nothing to do with it.  First off, throwing money around at an issue will cause same effect in US MiC. Expensive sub par shit.  As per Shoygu in recent past, only 40% of finances available from SAP2020 has been spent, and that is something since we are coming up to 2018.  I think that is because before ordering, they are really wanting to complete systems or end up with same bullshit.  This is obvious, you don't go and purchase a bunch of duds and then spend shit tons to fix it. They did this already with Su-35. F-35 is perfect example of this. My evidence of this is that the ships were laid down even in a small budget era compared to now or even in near future. Yet during the two biggest spending periods of 2015 and 16, not a hull laid down. So it really isn't money. It is definitely something else.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5611
    Points : 5715
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:22 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:Dude, i am not saying they should stop building Gorshkovs, it's just that the SG could also be built, it should take less time and money to build than it would take to build the Lider, while also being able to fulfill the role of both Destroyer and Cruiser, a good investment IMO.

    Yea, those are Corvettes.

    Nothing wrong with building Super Gorshkov but they are not building anything at all. Not a single ship above corvette.

    There is a supposed delay on account of AA missiles but it also makes no sense. It takes 3 years to reach a phase in construction where AA missiles are being installed. It takes much less than that to resolve problem with those missiles. So why aren't they ordering more frigates?

    They have 4 under construction for North Fleet. They should order at least 4 more for Pacific. It would be enough to plug a gap. Instead nothing. Not a single one for years and by the looks of it nothing for years to come. Not even announcement.



    As for zero deficit policy reasons​ are simple:  they can't go into deficit yet because the moment they do all their "friends" like China and India will run away screaming. Russia may not care but for others deficit is red alert (wether right or wrong is besides the point)

    Once Nord Stream 2 and Turk Stream are up and running and Ukraine is unplugged from gas transit after 2019 it will be different story. But they aren't there yet.
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1420
    Points : 1421
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:06 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:Dude, i am not saying they should stop building Gorshkovs, it's just that the SG could also be built, it should take less time and money to build than it would take to build the Lider, while also being able to fulfill the role of both Destroyer and Cruiser, a good investment IMO.

    Yea, those are Corvettes.

    Nothing wrong with building Super Gorshkov but they are not building anything at all. Not a single ship above corvette.

    There is a supposed delay on account of AA missiles but it also makes no sense. It takes 3 years to reach a phase in construction where AA missiles are being installed. It takes much less than that to resolve problem with those missiles. So why aren't they ordering more frigates?

    They have 4 under construction for North Fleet. They should order at least 4 more for Pacific. It would be enough to plug a gap. Instead nothing. Not a single one for years and by the looks of it nothing for years to come. Not even announcement.

    How odd, as soon as the Turbine issue was resolved they should have placed new orders, could it be because there considering the Super-Gorshkov to replace it or is it the defense-budget being cut in 2018??
    But that's stupid, either way they need more frigates, and i haven't heard of new Grigorovich orders either.

    Hmm.... i am leaning towards Mikes theory, the MoD is most likely simply waiting for the Gorshkov to work first before ordering more.
    Not sure about Grigorovich, then again they only restarted construction back in June this year.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1505
    Points : 1505
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:50 pm

    It was obvious when recently Putin signed the decree regarding the strategy of the Navy till 2030. That was this year they signed it. I guarantee you they are now working out a plan for a system that is standardized to start building. They may be determining if it is Super Gorshkov or not as an example. Right now, they got what they want in a design and development in corvettes, but not on frigates and higher. They may see where they want to go when Gorshkov is fully ready. The media hypes about the "cut in spending" but what most fail to realize that the supposed amount to be spent was pre determined years ago. In this case, Austin posted it in the defense budget thread. And he was correct in the amount (almost) as he pointed out it will be 2.8% of GDP but from what Johnin posted in the economics thread, it is 2.9%. So it will be roughly 2.7T rubles. Which let me remind you is over $40B USD in current exchange rate, and pre 2014, was $80B USD (brings into perspective, as ruble cost wouldn't have changed). So they are still spending a lot more than you think. A single Gorshkov takes years to build, and not the entire cost is thrown up front. Its and it doesn't cost $1B to build one. If it was money issues, frigates that are cheaper would still be build (Grigorovich) but in this case, they are only building those for India. So there is a whole other thing happening. Maybe, just maybe they are going with a new design. Something between Gorshkov and Grigorovich? Maybe something they can build at multiple shipyards and shares many components with Grigorovich and the various Corvettes? Who knows what is going on. But we get hints based upon recent events, and the signing of the decree till 2030 for the navy is the biggest one - they were unsure till recently what they wanted/needed.

    T-47

    Posts : 211
    Points : 215
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  T-47 on Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:41 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:they are only building those for India

    AFAIK that plan was cancelled. MoD wants those ships stay in RuN. No Indian Grigorovich so far.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1690
    Points : 1730
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Respective Russian Corvette

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:05 am

    I hope this is  ot journo fantasy an if its true then wow. Below its not Leader bu river-sea corvette Smile))





    The Navy will receive a "people's" corvette

    A unique ship will not only be multifunctional, but also quite cheap



    The ships of a small displacement created for the Russian Navy will operate both in the far ocean zone, and close to the coast and even on rivers. On board the novelty is hidden a whole arsenal of missile, torpedo and antisubmarine weapons, more suitable for the cruiser. The newest corvettes will be able to inflict massive missile strikes on coastal targets, combat aircraft carriers, hunt for submarines, and provide fire support to the naval landing force. But the main advantage of the ship, the project of which was developed by the Krylov Scientific Research Center, is its low cost.

    The corvette will cost the military seamen a little more than a small rocket ship (MRK) of the "Buyan" type. Therefore, the project has already received an informal name "people's" and "budget." According to its characteristics, the novelty seriously exceeds the MRK. According to experts, a new corvette is needed for the Russian Navy. It is a good option to get for a relatively small amount of money a fleet of shock ships with great potential and unique characteristics.

    As "Izvestia" was told in the General Staff of the Navy, the draft of the new corvette has already been preliminarily studied and received positive reviews.

    "A new corvette is an attempt to create a small displacement ship, but with very powerful and multifunctional armament," Valentin Belonenko, representative of the Krylov Scientific Center, told Izvestia. - At the same time, he can operate in the far sea, coastal zones or even in the estuaries of large rivers. At high "sea" sides the ship has a very small draft. In its motion lead water jet engines, which increases maneuverability in small water areas.

    In appearance, the ship is similar to the atomic destroyer "Leader" project 23560. This ship should replace the heavy nuclear cruisers such as "Peter the Great". The chopped lines of the hull, the pyramidal hanging superstructure, the complete absence of antennas and the armament put into the below-deck space. All of these are elements of Stealth stealth technology. However, unlike the older brother, the corvette has an order of magnitude smaller displacement.

    At the same time on its board are 24 universal launchers 3S-14 for the launch of long-range cruise missiles Caliber and anti-ship Onyx. This is more than on ships with a similar displacement of the type "Buyan-M" or "Karakurt." And little less than the "Leader".

    The corvette also has a powerful air defense system. These are 16 long-range guided missiles and 32 are small ones. In addition, the newest universal 100 mm automatic artillery A-190 stands on board. Two 30 mm six-barrel rapid-fire cannons AK-630 and one twelve-barrel cannon "Duet". To combat enemy submarines installed torpedo tubes "Packet-NK" caliber 324 mm. Detection of submarines is carried out by means of a hydroacoustic complex with antennas in the nose bulb, under the keel and extended, towed behind the stern of the ship, and also with the help of the Ka-27 helicopter. For its basing in the stern superstructure there is a hangar.


    "Compared to the Buyans and the Karakurts, the new corvette has serious advantages," the military historian Dmitry Boltenkov told Izvestia. - He has a powerful air defense system, a large number of strike complexes. The ship is more universal. It is such a ship that is now required by the Russian Navy. In case of their construction on each fleet it is possible to create a strong numerous shock group from new corvettes.

    At present, five small missile ships of the project Buyan-M are part of the Russian Navy. Another seven are in varying degrees of readiness. Also, the Main Command of the Navy ordered a series of 18 more advanced "Karakurts".

    How they want it to navigate on rivers would e interesting. But if true then a great day for RN.
    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 838
    Points : 856
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:40 am

    Already discussed this previously in http://www.russiadefence.net/t4811p275-russian-naval-shipbuilding-industry-news, starting at post 286 by Austin.

    This new pic does at least confirm the short-range AA is in two VLS on heli deck level.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1690
    Points : 1730
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:45 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:Already discussed this previously in http://www.russiadefence.net/t4811p275-russian-naval-shipbuilding-industry-news, starting at post 286 by Austin.

    This new pic does at least confirm the short-range AA is in two VLS on heli deck level.

    check vid in in this link for details pls. Snd thanks for info!

    Nasr Hosein

    Posts : 8
    Points : 10
    Join date : 2017-09-13
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Nasr Hosein on Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:03 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.
    Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

    Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

    Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

    Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

    I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
    Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".

    I have a question, if there are plans for a "Super Gorshkov", then would this ship be classified as a Frigate or Destroyer? Whatever the case, would the advent of a "Super Gorshkov" mean that there wouldn't be any Lider Class Destroyers? Because as far as I am aware, the design for Lider Class Destroyers have been approved and all related tasks will commence in the coming time. Also, when there is a "Super Gorshkov", would that mean that the Admiral Groshkov Class Frigates  (current ones), be discontinued by the time the sixth frigate has been built and handed over for trials before commissioning?
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1420
    Points : 1421
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:40 pm

    Nasr Hosein wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.
    Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

    Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

    Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

    Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

    I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
    Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".

    I have a question, if there are plans for a "Super Gorshkov", then would this ship be classified as a Frigate or Destroyer? Whatever the case, would the advent of a "Super Gorshkov" mean that there wouldn't be any Lider Class Destroyers? Because as far as I am aware, the design for Lider Class Destroyers have been approved and all related tasks will commence in the coming time. Also, when there is a "Super Gorshkov", would that mean that the Admiral Groshkov Class Frigates  (current ones), be discontinued by the time the sixth frigate has been built and handed over for trials before commissioning?

    Definitely a Destroyer at this point.
    Think of it as a cheaper Lider in a sense, the Lider is more a capital ship with all the bells and whistles, while the SG is more a guided missile ship.
    Unlikely, even if the SG becomes a reality, the Russian navy trying to get the best bang for there buck will still most likely focus on Frigates, besides they still have a crippling need for new Frigates.
    Then again, who knows, they might focus on an upgraded Grigorovich-class instead.

    T-47

    Posts : 211
    Points : 215
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  T-47 on Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:24 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Definitely a Destroyer at this point.
    Think of it as a cheaper Lider in a sense, the Lider is more a capital ship with all the bells and whistles, while the SG is more a guided missile ship.
    Unlikely, even if the SG becomes a reality, the Russian navy trying to get the best bang for there buck will still most likely focus on Frigates, besides they still have a crippling need for new Frigates.
    Then again, who knows, they might focus on an upgraded Grigorovich-class instead.

    Super Gorshokov is just extended version of Gorshkov, so if they managed to smooth Gorshkov production. SG will come out just fine, it only needs a bigger yard to build.

    Nasr Hosein

    Posts : 8
    Points : 10
    Join date : 2017-09-13
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Nasr Hosein on Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:03 am

    T-47 wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Definitely a Destroyer at this point.
    Think of it as a cheaper Lider in a sense, the Lider is more a capital ship with all the bells and whistles, while the SG is more a guided missile ship.
    Unlikely, even if the SG becomes a reality, the Russian navy trying to get the best bang for there buck will still most likely focus on Frigates, besides they still have a crippling need for new Frigates.
    Then again, who knows, they might focus on an upgraded Grigorovich-class instead.

    Super Gorshokov is just extended version of Gorshkov, so if they managed to smooth Gorshkov production. SG will come out just fine, it only needs a bigger yard to build.

    Speaking of "bigger yards", I have searched (unsuccessfully) for information regarding any intent or plans by Russia to expand its shipbuilding industry to facilitate building large combat ships like Destroyers, Aircraft Carriers and Cruisers. Are there such plans in the foreseeable future?
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1420
    Points : 1421
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:14 am

    Nasr Hosein wrote:
    T-47 wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Definitely a Destroyer at this point.
    Think of it as a cheaper Lider in a sense, the Lider is more a capital ship with all the bells and whistles, while the SG is more a guided missile ship.
    Unlikely, even if the SG becomes a reality, the Russian navy trying to get the best bang for there buck will still most likely focus on Frigates, besides they still have a crippling need for new Frigates.
    Then again, who knows, they might focus on an upgraded Grigorovich-class instead.

    Super Gorshokov is just extended version of Gorshkov, so if they managed to smooth Gorshkov production. SG will come out just fine, it only needs a bigger yard to build.

    Speaking of "bigger yards", I have searched (unsuccessfully) for information regarding any intent or plans by Russia to expand its shipbuilding industry to facilitate building large combat ships like Destroyers, Aircraft Carriers and Cruisers. Are there such plans in the foreseeable future?

    The Russian MoD has already made there intentions clear for the creation of Carriers, project Lavina proves this.
    That said, as usual planning and implementation has been schizophrenic to say the least.
    Overall, looking at the situation, Corvettes have been going well, Frigates are being resolved, destroyers are in planning and so are Carriers.
    As for Cruisers, i don't think so, the Lider and SG would probably be more than enough.
    The big question is, whether the Russians are interested in Cruise Missile Submarines (SLCMs), i can easily see a Borei-class variant for that.
    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 838
    Points : 856
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:16 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Overall, looking at the situation, Corvettes have been going well, Frigates are being resolved, destroyers are in planning and so are Carriers.
    As for Cruisers, i don't think so, the Lider and SG would probably be more than enough.

    Personally, I think the traditional Western classification of Corvette/Frigate/Destroyer/Cruiser is so archaic as to be useless.  Lider @ 17,500T (?) is being touted as a "Destroyer", yet the old Kara Class "Cruisers" were only 9,700 full load.  I much prefer the old Soviet style of functional designations like Small/Large Anti-Submarine Ship,  Rocket Cruisers, Heavy Nuclear-Powered Guided Missile Cruiser, or Heavy Aviation Cruiser.  

    While on this subject, do the Russians still use officially use such a designation system, or have they "conformed" to the banal western practice?
    avatar
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3261
    Points : 3367
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:48 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Overall, looking at the situation, Corvettes have been going well, Frigates are being resolved, destroyers are in planning and so are Carriers.
    As for Cruisers, i don't think so, the Lider and SG would probably be more than enough.

    Personally, I think the traditional Western classification of Corvette/Frigate/Destroyer/Cruiser is so archaic as to be useless.  Lider @ 17,500T (?) is being touted as a "Destroyer", yet the old Kara Class "Cruisers" were only 9,700 full load.  I much prefer the old Soviet style of functional designations like Small/Large Anti-Submarine Ship,  Rocket Cruisers, Heavy Nuclear-Powered Guided Missile Cruiser, or Heavy Aviation Cruiser.  

    While on this subject, do the Russians still use officially use such a designation system, or have they "conformed" to the banal western practice?

    Yes they mostly still use the Soviet designation system. There have been some changes

    Buyan is a MAK (small artillery ship)
    Buyan-M is a MRK (small missile ship)
    Stereguschyj is a Malyj SKR (small patrol vessel)
    Lider is an Eskadrennyj minonosets (destroyer; or literally 'squadron torpedo-layer' which is the historical Russian name and use for these ships dating back to the turn of the 20th century.. still used, and during the Soviet period too).

    On the other hand Gorshkov and Grigorovich class vessels are of type fregat (frigate). In Soviet times you didn't have this term and they would have been given a more functional designation such as small anti-submarine ship or patrol vessel. However times and technologies have changed and this new definition has been introduced; and it makes more sense because ships of this size or larger (and some smaller ones) are these days fully multirole and can be used for air-defence coverage, for anti-sub duties, for missile strikes against both land and sea targets, for anti-piracy patrols, etc...

    T-47

    Posts : 211
    Points : 215
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  T-47 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:32 pm

    Nasr Hosein wrote:
    Speaking of "bigger yards", I have searched (unsuccessfully) for information regarding any intent or plans by Russia to expand its shipbuilding industry to facilitate building large combat ships like Destroyers, Aircraft Carriers and Cruisers. Are there such plans in the foreseeable future?

    No offense but you need to increase your googling skill. Giving you a head start, type "Zvezda shipyard" and read what Rogozin said about it.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:15 am