Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Share
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2065
    Points : 2083
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:25 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Lider destroyer construction will start no earlier than 2025 so in the meantime my guess it's Gorshkovs all the way

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201707291055993360-russia-destroyer-nuclear/

    Let's hope that also includes the Super-Gorshkov. Wink

    Even standard ones would be more than enough, they really need to get their act together.

    Standard Gorshkovs are for maintaining current capability or slightly improving it which should be enough for now. Super Gorshkovs and Liders are for significant expansion.

    But you need to sort out maintaining before you even try expanding.

    Well it currently take 11 years between laying down and commissioning a Gorshkov. As if it is a 100,000 ton, nuclear-powered CV lol1
    Even if they cut that at half, they'll still end up with with four (4) of these light destroyers by 2025. All in the northern fleet.

    Slow is an understatement. Makes the Type 45 look good.

    Maybe it's time Russia starts ordering the hulls from Korea, tow them to Vladivostok to finish them up. That is a if they want a proper fleet and not a collection of patrol boats, corvettes, light frigates and OPVs in 2030. When Udaloys and Sovs will be long gone (in smoke possibly pirat ).
    avatar
    Kimppis

    Posts : 318
    Points : 324
    Join date : 2014-12-23

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:05 am

    You mean 4 by 2020? They have already launched 2. It really shouldn't take longer than that. If they'll commission Gorshkov this year and Kasatonov in 2018. The construction of Golovko and Isakov didn't start that much later and they can probably improve the pace atleast a bit.

    It certainly will be much closer to 2020 than 2025. I think they were talking about a mininum of 6 by 2025.

    And as PapaDragon has said numerous times, the years before 2010 (or even 2012) simply don't exist when it comes to Russia's naval construction. They don't count.

    Why would refurbished Sovs and Slavas be 'long gone' in 2030? They'll last until 2030-35. I think that's the plan.
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2065
    Points : 2083
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:13 am

    Kimppis wrote:You mean 4 by 2020? They have already launched 2.

    But laid down only 4 in total. So if they lay down a 5th early next year, it won't be till 2024 till it's commissioned (assume a ~6 years gap, which is way optimistic given their current pace of 11 years). I'm not aware if they've progressed that much.

    Kimppis wrote:Why would refurbished Sovs and Slavas be 'long gone' in 2030? They'll last until 2030-35. I think that's the plan.

    Udaloys and Sovs should be gone by 2030. If they value their men and cash. The "Slavas" are only three boats to begin with, and they will be present, as Russia seems to be unable to build heavy destroyers and cruisers anymore. They already struggle with the frigates and light destroyers.
    avatar
    Kimppis

    Posts : 318
    Points : 324
    Join date : 2014-12-23

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:23 am

    Yes? So 6 Gorshkovs by 2025, not 4?

    Why would they need to do that? Those ships aren't even that old. I thought it was obvious that (some) of them are going to last until 2030.

    My crystal ball:

    2030:

    2 Improved Kirovs
    2 Liders
    6 Super-Gorshkovs
    4 Gorshkovs
    +
    4 Slavas and Sovs (to be replaced by Liders by 2035, the 2 last Liders will replace Kirovs by 2040-45)
    = 18 ships

    Something like that LOL.
    Doesn't look bad at all. Even with a slightly smaller number of newer vessels (if that list sounds too optimistic).
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2065
    Points : 2083
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:31 am

    Kimppis wrote:Yes? So 6 Gorshkovs by 2025, not 4?

    A 5th by the end of 2024 and 6th by late 2025. But they need to lay them down right now, in yearly succession.

    Kimppis wrote:Why would they need to do that? Those ships aren't even that old. I thought it was obvious that (some) of them are going to last until 2030.

    Their engines are quite old. I doubt they'll make it to 2030.

    Kimppis wrote:My crystal ball:

    2030:

    2 Improved Kirovs

    Agreed.

    Kimppis wrote:2 Liders

    I'm gonna go with 1 (+1 in construction).

    Kimppis wrote:6 Super-Gorshkovs
    4 Gorshkovs

    4 more Gorshkovs is doable by then. I'd put 1 more Super Gorshkov (+3 in construction)


    Kimppis wrote:+
    4 Slavas and Sovs (to be replaced by Liders by 2035, the 2 last Liders will replace Kirovs by 2040-45)

    I'd put 3 Slavas there, which previously mentioned Super Gorshkovs can replace together with 2 Liders.
    The Kirovs could possibly stay active through 2040.
    avatar
    Kimppis

    Posts : 318
    Points : 324
    Join date : 2014-12-23

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:39 am

    You mean 8 Gorshkovs and 1 Super-Gorshkov in service?

    Because I thought they wouldn't order any additional (standard) Gorshkovs after the first 4. But I have no idea to be honest...
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2065
    Points : 2083
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:56 am

    Kimppis wrote:You mean 8 Gorshkovs and 1 Super-Gorshkov in service?

    Because I thought they wouldn't order any additional (standard) Gorshkovs after the first 4. But I have no idea to be honest...

    Yeah they could have 8 Gorshkov by 2030, plus a Super-G if they expand ship building capacity by 2025 (God know where and how). If they don't order more than those 4 then.. I don't have a baseline to project anything.
    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2607
    Points : 2645
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:23 pm

    Plans now are for 4 Gorskhovs and then 10 Super Gorskhovs.

    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10535
    Points : 11012
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  George1 on Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:48 pm

    franco wrote:Plans now are for 4 Gorskhovs and then 10 Super Gorskhovs.


    Super Gorshkov will be of destroyer class undoubtedly


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2607
    Points : 2645
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:00 pm

    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:Plans now are for 4 Gorskhovs and then 10 Super Gorskhovs.


    Super Gorshkov will be of destroyer class undoubtedly

    Difficult to say, could depend on the role of the ship. A frigate designation in Russia is actually a "Guard ship". Hence a corvette like 20380 is designated a Guard ship also. But as per size, the Sovremenny Class destroyers displace 7940 tonnes full load.
    avatar
    Kimppis

    Posts : 318
    Points : 324
    Join date : 2014-12-23

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:14 pm

    Gorshkov: light destroyer
    Super-Gorshkov: medium destroyer
    Lider: heavy destroyer
    Smile

    So atleast 4 + 10 + 8 = 22. Looks good!

    But I really think they need to order more Grigorovich sized vessels. Proper frigates, just like the Chinese Type 054A-class. Atleast 20 of those. Although I noticed many of their heavier (mostly upcoming) "corvettes" are basically light frigates. 24 VLS, that's not a corvette, that's almost a frigate (a good thing, obviously).
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5432
    Points : 5536
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:34 pm

    Kimppis wrote:.......

    But I really think they need to order more Grigorovich sized vessels. Proper frigates, just like the Chinese Type 054A-class. Atleast 20 of those. Although I noticed many of their heavier (mostly upcoming) "corvettes" are basically light frigates. 24 VLS, that's not a corvette, that's almost a frigate (a good thing, obviously).  

    You are right about Grigorevich class, now with engine issues resolved this class has become viable agan but are also getting long in the tooth.

    What they need to do is to give them Steregushi/Gremashi/Derzkii "treatment"

    They need an upgrade but one that does not make too many changes and gets done fast. They need to keep the hull and propulsion intact and make changes to upper part of the ship to trim down radar signature, add another UKSK set and update sonars, radar and weapons with off-the-shelf products (Palash and maybe even Redut if it doesn't break the bank)


    Also there is one important thing to remember when discussing Gorshkov class frigates: we have no idea what their actual build time under current conditions is because nobody has managed to clock it properly yet.

    Think about it:

    -construction started in 2006 during zero military financing
    -had God knows how many bureaucratic delays in the early days (remember Ivan Gren?)
    -Ukrainian engine problems as usual
    -standard development problems on top of all that (like Redut performance)

    Second vessel had similar issues. Those issues are now pretty much resolved but it will not be until third ship is completed that we will know how much actual time is required to build Gorshkov class frigate.

    Just something to keep in mind when throwing timeframes around.
    avatar
    Benya

    Posts : 528
    Points : 532
    Join date : 2016-06-05
    Location : Budapest, Hungary

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Benya on Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:14 pm

    Kimppis wrote:Gorshkov: light destroyer
    Super-Gorshkov: medium destroyer
    Lider: heavy destroyer
    Smile

    So atleast 4 + 10 + 8 = 22. Looks good!

    But I really think they need to order more Grigorovich sized vessels. Proper frigates, just like the Chinese Type 054A-class. Atleast 20 of those. Although I noticed many of their heavier (mostly upcoming) "corvettes" are basically light frigates. 24 VLS, that's not a corvette, that's almost a frigate (a good thing, obviously).  

    Well, Gorshkovs are not much bigger (both in size and weight)  than Neustrashimiy-class frigates, but their weaponry is not equivalent to a destroyer's armament, so they are good as guided missile frigates (FFG).

    Super Gorshkovs would be great for destroyer duties, so they could be classified as guided missile missile destroyers (DDG).

    Liders on the other hand should be classified as nuclear guided missile cruisers (CGN) as they would fall in the bracket between Kirovs and Slavas in terms of weaponry, size and weight
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10535
    Points : 11012
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:17 pm

    News of domestic non-nuclear underwater shipbuilding

    As reported by the news agency RIA Novosti, Admiralty Shipyards JSC (St. Petersburg, part of USC) expects that contracts for the construction of two more non-nuclear submarines of Project 677 (code Lada) will be concluded in 2018. This was announced in an interview with RIA Novosti, the general director of the enterprise, Alexander Buzakov.

    The head submarine of the project 677 Lada - St. Petersburg - is being tested in the Northern Fleet. In a different degree of construction there are two more submarines of this project - Kronstadt and Velikie Luki.

    "We are waiting for the third and fourth (ships - ed.) To appear in the SPV program (state arms program - ed.). And next year we will be able to conclude contracts for these two submarines," Buzakov said.

    According to him, after the Admiralty Shipyards complete the construction of a series of submarines of Project 636.3 for the Pacific Fleet, the main project for the replenishment of the non-nuclear submarine fleet of Russia will be Project 677.

    "I think that there will be a dispute as to what the engine should be, either it will be a diesel-electric installation or a VNEU (an air-independent power plant), provided that this facility is already tested, and only then the Navy and the Ministry of Defense will decide on the construction of the following While everything is in the process, our designer CDB MT "Rubin" is working in this direction, "the head of the enterprise said.

    Buzakov also noted that the test of the air-independent power plant will not be conducted on the submarines "Kronstadt" and "Velikie Luki", as well as on the next two ships. "They will definitely be without VNEU, maybe it will be tested at some of the subsequent ships of this project," he added.

    Also, according to him, Admiralty Shipyards JSC plans to lay two more diesel-electric submarines of Project 636.3 for the Pacific Fleet in 2019. He recalled that on July 28 the first two submarines of this project were laid-Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and Volkhov. According to him, the submarine "Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky" will be launched in 2019 and in the same year will be delivered. "Volkhov" will be launched on the water in the spring of 2020 and will be handed over to the fleet by the end of the year.

    "The third submarine is called Magadan, the fourth is Ufa, they will be delivered simultaneously in 2021, with a small gap, we will lay them in 2019. Accordingly, one will be lowered in 2020, the other in 2021. The fifth The boat is called "Mozhaysk", the sixth boat the Navy still did not give the name, both boats will be delivered in 2022. Accordingly, one will be lowered in 2021, the other - in 2022, "Buzakov said.

    Earlier it was reported that the contract for the construction of a series of six submarines of Project 636.3 for the Pacific Fleet was signed between the Russian Defense Ministry and the Admiralty Shipyards in September 2016. Under the terms of the contract, the first ship will be handed over to the customer in 2019, the construction of the entire series is scheduled to be completed in 2022.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2781767.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5432
    Points : 5536
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:19 am

    Buzakov also noted that the test of the air-independent power plant will not be conducted on the submarines "Kronstadt" and "Velikie Luki", as well as on the next two ships. "They will definitely be without VNEU, maybe it will be tested at some of the subsequent ships of this project," he added.


    I don't get it. I thought that air-independent propulsion was main selling point of these Lada subs.

    If they are not getting AIP then what is their advantage over Kilo class? Genuinely asking.

    Wouldn't it make more sense to build more Kilos then?

    And speaking of Kilos, how good really are they when compared to AIP subs? I know they call them Black Holes but how deserved is that name?
    avatar
    TheArmenian

    Posts : 1715
    Points : 1872
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:12 am

    The project 677 submarines are more efficient than the Kilos. They are smaller and need a smaller crew. At the same time they have better sensors (sonars etc,), can go a bit faster etc. etc.

    And yes, the Kilos are some of the quietest submarines in service today.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16536
    Points : 17144
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:52 pm

    I don't get it. I thought that air-independent propulsion was main selling point of these Lada subs.

    If they are not getting AIP then what is their advantage over Kilo class? Genuinely asking.

    The Ladas were described as SSN quality vessels with conventional propulsion.... in other words very very capable sensors and weapons, but cheaper to operate and quieter when running in electric mode.

    They were very much short range Pikes (ie west calls Akula) for coastal use near Russian harbours without the high speed or endurance of the nukes.

    The new batteries they were supposed to be fitted with greatly extends their endurance beyond that of the Kilos, while the AIP was going to extend that advantage even further.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5432
    Points : 5536
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:42 pm

    I get it, thanks!!! thumbsup

    So it would mean that that massive delay in design and testing phase was due to problems with something other than propulsion?

    Also now that they are ordering Ladas I assume that problems are ironed out and that they will become go-to platform for non nuclear subs like Kilo is now?

    Edit: I checked complement on wiki and it says that it's down to 34 from 52 on Kilo, this is pretty damn good, great in fact!
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5538
    Points : 5579
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Militarov on Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:33 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Buzakov also noted that the test of the air-independent power plant will not be conducted on the submarines "Kronstadt" and "Velikie Luki", as well as on the next two ships. "They will definitely be without VNEU, maybe it will be tested at some of the subsequent ships of this project," he added.


    I don't get it. I thought that air-independent propulsion was main selling point of these Lada subs.

    If they are not getting AIP then what is their advantage over Kilo class? Genuinely asking.

    Wouldn't it make more sense to build more Kilos then?

    And speaking of Kilos, how good really are they when compared to AIP subs? I know they call them Black Holes but how deserved is that name?

    I personally dont think they should start with Ladas untill AIP is ready, beats the point. Rather build 2 more Kilos till Ladas together with AIP are available.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5432
    Points : 5536
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:35 am

    Militarov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Buzakov also noted that the test of the air-independent power plant will not be conducted on the submarines "Kronstadt" and "Velikie Luki", as well as on the next two ships. "They will definitely be without VNEU, maybe it will be tested at some of the subsequent ships of this project," he added.


    I don't get it. I thought that air-independent propulsion was main selling point of these Lada subs.

    If they are not getting AIP then what is their advantage over Kilo class? Genuinely asking.

    Wouldn't it make more sense to build more Kilos then?

    And speaking of Kilos, how good really are they when compared to AIP subs? I know they call them Black Holes but how deserved is that name?

    I personally dont think they should start with Ladas untill AIP is ready, beats the point. Rather build 2 more Kilos till Ladas together with AIP are available.

    Well IF they are that much superior AND IF they can be built at similar speed THEN it would make sense

    Otherwise you are right, they should stick with Kilos for a while more
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5538
    Points : 5579
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Militarov on Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:42 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Buzakov also noted that the test of the air-independent power plant will not be conducted on the submarines "Kronstadt" and "Velikie Luki", as well as on the next two ships. "They will definitely be without VNEU, maybe it will be tested at some of the subsequent ships of this project," he added.


    I don't get it. I thought that air-independent propulsion was main selling point of these Lada subs.

    If they are not getting AIP then what is their advantage over Kilo class? Genuinely asking.

    Wouldn't it make more sense to build more Kilos then?

    And speaking of Kilos, how good really are they when compared to AIP subs? I know they call them Black Holes but how deserved is that name?

    I personally dont think they should start with Ladas untill AIP is ready, beats the point. Rather build 2 more Kilos till Ladas together with AIP are available.

    Well IF they are that much superior AND IF they can be built at similar speed THEN it would make sense

    Otherwise you are right, they should stick with Kilos for a while more

    Majority of that equipment can be retrofitted to Kilos, so still, rather build Kilo revision till Lada comes in full configuration.

    Just my personal opinion tho, ofc.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16536
    Points : 17144
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:06 am

    There is only so much you can upgrade an old design before the returns are diminished to the point where it is not worth the money.

    The sensors and propulsion and weapons of the Lada were state of the art next gen type stuff... they were always going to be ambitious and to take time to get right.

    The point is not just to get any old subs into service... I am sure even a Foxtrot could be built in record time too... building Kilos now means being stuck with them for 30 years... they wont age as well as the Ladas will... personally I would prefer to see them spend money on Ladas now and leave Kilos for export.

    The higher automation on board the Ladas will reduce crewing pressure and maximise the number of vessels at sea at any one time... which maximises its performance advantage.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 192
    Points : 194
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:21 pm

    The 12 ships of the Lider class, a proposed 17,000-ton destroyer, could easily replace the existing cruisers and destroyers of the fleet, but there is little indication that the Kremlin plans to lay these ships down, much less complete them in a reasonable timeframe. Russia’s recent economic crisis has made naval construction an ever harder sell. Moreover, the seizure of Crimea cut off the possibility of foreign acquisition, primarily the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, although at some point Russia could perhaps consider buying ships from China. ..
    Russia’s navy is in bad shape, and Russia is in no shape to rebuild it. In the foreseeable future, Russia should commit to naval projects that it absolutely requires, and that it does well. This mostly means a nuclear submarine flotilla capable of posing a deterrent threat, and a small surface fleet tasked with managing routine maritime maintenance operations.
    https://warisboring.com/the-russian-navy-is-in-a-death-spiral/
    Well, "small surface fleet" can also project power ashore with LACMs, as already demonstrated. Yes, importing ships from the PRC is possible- the USSR had some of its ships & helos built in Poland & the Russian Empire got a few of her big ships built abroad as well.
    Also, could those icebreakers Russia has now that are idle in winter be modified for naval roles & sent South to fill gaps, if need be? In a crisis, I think so!


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 611
    Points : 615
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:23 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    The 12 ships of the Lider class, a proposed 17,000-ton destroyer, could easily replace the existing cruisers and destroyers of the fleet, but there is little indication that the Kremlin plans to lay these ships down, much less complete them in a reasonable timeframe. Russia’s recent economic crisis has made naval construction an ever harder sell. Moreover, the seizure of Crimea cut off the possibility of foreign acquisition, primarily the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, although at some point Russia could perhaps consider buying ships from China. ..
    Russia’s navy is in bad shape, and Russia is in no shape to rebuild it. In the foreseeable future, Russia should commit to naval projects that it absolutely requires, and that it does well. This mostly means a nuclear submarine flotilla capable of posing a deterrent threat, and a small surface fleet tasked with managing routine maritime maintenance operations.
    https://warisboring.com/the-russian-navy-is-in-a-death-spiral/
    Well, "small surface fleet" can also project power ashore with LACMs, as already demonstrated. Yes, importing ships from the PRC is possible- the USSR had some of its ships & helos built in Poland & the Russian Empire got a few of her big ships built abroad as well.
    Also, could those icebreakers Russia has now that are idle in winter be modified for naval roles & sent South to fill gaps, if need be?
    In a crisis, I think so!

    Soviets had ships built in member states for economic reasons they had to spread the economics around to better support the union. If they just focused it all on Russia the USSR would have collapsed much sooner than it did.

    I don't think Russia will purchase any ships from china there was talk about them buying some frigates to go with the Mistrals because they could not build the ships fast enough, so that made sense really.

    This article tho doesn't take into account the Russians are starting from bottom to top etc they will not lay down any Liders for a long long time they don't even have a decent amount of frigates built yet.

    the problem for Russia's navy right now is not that there is no money it's their ship builders take FOREVER to finish ships that should not take half as long as they do.

    This is a problem with the industry, not the fact they cannot afford it, Some shipyards can get ships out in a reasonable amount of time but those are few and far between in Russia right now.
    avatar
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 192
    Points : 194
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:37 pm

    Is it because it's a different time now & there's no Stalin & Beria anymore to shoot/send them to GULAG for slow completion of orders? What would make them better? New equipment? More qualified management, personnel & yards?

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:30 am