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    Military Aviation Industry: News

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    eehnie

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  eehnie on Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:34 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    This aregument is not serious. If you want to go this way, the work on the replacement of the MiG-25/31 started in the 70s.

    Just better to read what the head of MiG said. And to pay attention.
    What kind of work has been ongoing since 2010 for MiG-41 then? 8 years for what exactly? 

    I pay much attention to what high-level executives and officials say, that is the problem when they say things that (apparently) do not make sense. I was not there so have to rely in what has been disclosed, cannot know what the guy was thinking on. What part of these statements should I believe? (Tarasenko @ ARMY 2017):

    “[The development] is at the stage of finalizing the image of the plane. It will be a gradual transition from MiG-31 to PAK DA,”
    --> So the preliminary design is almost ready [2017]. It will be similar to MiG-31? Or is he meaning that MiG-31 will be substituted progressively?

    The plane, however, will not be just a modernization of MiG-31, it will be an entirely new machine, having “the ability to operate in space, new weapons, new speeds, new operational range,” Tarasenko told Zvezda TV channel on Tuesday.
    --> So their proposal will be similar to MiG-31 but above and beyond in terms of capabilities. Confirmed it will operate in space, faster and longer ranged than MiG-31

    “It will be an entirely new plane, where entirely new technologies to operate in the Arctic zone will be utilized. This plane will safeguard the whole border of our homeland. Later, the project will become unmanned,” TASS quoted Tarasenko as saying.  

    “We’re shaping our technical offer, so that the customer would make a decision on the need to develop the plane. … According to our internal estimates, we should make it to the serial development in 2025,” Tarasenko told RT.
    --> MiG is preparing a technical offer to MoD with which they can be ready for series by 2025. Does this proposal include engines that actually exist and can fly to space or Mach 4? Would really love to know those

    So, development has not even been approved by MoD [2017], Bondarev said the R&D for the plane would not start before 2019 but we should believe it is going to be ready for commissioning in 2025, is that?

    From Slyusar @ARMY 2018

    - The life cycle of the MiG-31 was nearing completion in the next 10 years he will be replaced by the new fighter-interceptor MiG-41, it is the same PACK of DP. At what stage of implementation is the project?

    We are at the stage of research. She will answer all the questions – what the car needs, what is the concept of engagement, what characteristics it must have, what problems to solve which we have scientific and technical potential, allowing these challenges to provide answers. This is a job for a few years.
    --> So the preliminary design will still go on for some years [the words preliminary design are not mentioned here and more clear statements say the contrary], if I understand correctly. It thought it was almost ready by 2017...

    - There will be a new glider?
    - We are working on a new concept, Yes. And the creation of this aviation system plan to use new technologies and materials.
    - Have plans to increase performance in speed, range, ability to work in space?
    Everything will be from the tasks to depend on. I will say in space to fly and fly into space.
    --> Unclear what the plane will do, this will be the result of the preliminary design

    - Assuming optimistic scenario, when you may receive this machine?
    - It has to be logically synchronized with the completion of the scheduled resource of the MiG-31. By this time you will need a new car to develop – we are talking about the turn of 2030.
    --> Now we are gone to 2030. [To understand well this part is necessary to take into account that in the case of the combat aircrafts, the prototypes seem ordered by and delivered to the Russian Armed Forces, unlike in the case of the auxiliary aircrafts, where the procedure is different. 2025 can be refered to delivery of the prototype for the first fly, and 2030 to delivery of serial production, like has been more clearly expressed in other cases.] But still irrelevant [relevant, but unclear], since they don't know what they will offer and much less what the MoD will say [this would be absurd].

    As said, this is the beginning of the preliminary development for the plane. We don't know yet what the plane will do and much less when it will be commissioned. [the parts that are more clearly understandable, marked in green, must not be disturbed by more unclear statements. Also you missed other more clear interviews]

    Being serious no-one can expect to have full information of what the UAC achieved this year. It would reach easily the US Secretary of Defense.

    Taking into account that you are asking, I marked in red what I think you are understanding wrongly from the quotes. And in green what you maybe understanding correctly. Including also some comment (mine) in blue and between [].

    Also this article also offers important and clear additional information, bolded in green:

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201808171309-o5u6.htm
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftvzvezda.ru%2Fnews%2Fopk%2Fcontent%2F201808171309-o5u6.htm

    The fifth generation MiG-41 fighter is being created in Russia

    Alexander Peshkov

    13:09 08/08/2018

    In the Russian aircraft corporation "MiG" are going to create a fifth-generation MiG-41, said the company's CEO Ilya Tarasenko.

    Photo: Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

    According to Tarasenko, this project has been conducted for a long time, and soon the aircraft will be presented to the public.

    "No, this is not a mythical project, a project for the MiG long-standing, now we are intensively conducting these works under the auspices of the UAC and will soon present them to the public," he said.

    Tarasenko stressed that the project is in the stage of experimental and scientific work.

    Earlier in an interview with the television company "Star" Tarasenko said that the fifth-generation aircraft will be built on a two-engine scheme .

    According to him, the long-range interception aircraft complex will be built using low-visibility technology, will be able to work in near space.
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    LMFS

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  LMFS on Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:00 am

    eehnie wrote:
    - The life cycle of the MiG-31 was nearing completion in the next 10 years he will be replaced by the new fighter-interceptor MiG-41, it is the same PACK of DP. At what stage of implementation is the project?

    We are at the stage of research. She will answer all the questions – what the car needs, what is the concept of engagement, what characteristics it must have, what problems to solve which we have scientific and technical potential, allowing these challenges to provide answers. This is a job for a few years.
    --> So the preliminary design will still go on for some years [the words preliminary design are not mentioned here and more clear statements say the contrary], if I understand correctly. It thought it was almost ready by 2017...

    They are doing basic or preliminary research on the features that a MiG-41 should have. No news of proposal submittal to MoD between interviews last year and this one, plus comments from Bondarev that development will only start 2019 the soonest. If you read what Slyusar says above, he is referring, very clearly, to the basic features of the plane, which constitute the result of the preliminary development.
    --> Now we are gone to 2030. [To understand well this part is necessary to take into account that in the case of the combat aircrafts, the prototypes seem ordered by and delivered to the Russian Armed Forces, unlike in the case of the auxiliary aircrafts, where the procedure is different. 2025 can be refered to delivery of the prototype for the first fly, and 2030 to delivery of serial production, like has been more clearly expressed in other cases.] But still irrelevant [relevant, but unclear], since they don't know what they will offer and much less what the MoD will say [this would be absurd].
    Serial deliveries in mid twenties reported by several media, then Tarasneko saying "we should make it to the serial development in 2025”, so what he means? First flight? This is being serious?
    If you have a better argument I am happy to hear it, but making up things does not qualify as that.

    Slyusar is saying explicitly that they have some years work to define the plane's capabilities. So this is not closed yet, even when they can certainly have a certain idea of what they may want to propose. But before closing the proposal and submitting it to the MoD they have to thoroughly check the scientific and technical potential in every involved field and how it results in capabilities, basic design and layout of the plane, costs and schedule etc., otherwise I could myself prepare the proposal with anything I would fancy MiG-41 doing. And of course they don't know what MoD will think of the proposal in terms of costs, deadline and capabilities according to their priorities at the time it will be evaluated.


    As said, this is the beginning of the preliminary development for the plane. We don't know yet what the plane will do and much less when it will be commissioned. [the parts that are more clearly understandable, marked in green, must not be disturbed by more unclear statements. Also you missed other more clear interviews]

    Being serious no-one can expect to have full information of what the UAC achieved this year. It would reach easily the US Secretary of Defense.

    Taking into account that you are asking, I marked in red what I think you are understanding wrongly from the quotes. And in green what you maybe understanding correctly. Including also some comment (mine) in blue and between [].

    Also this article also offers important and clear additional information, bolded in green:

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201808171309-o5u6.htm
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftvzvezda.ru%2Fnews%2Fopk%2Fcontent%2F201808171309-o5u6.htm

    The fifth generation MiG-41 fighter is being created in Russia

    Alexander Peshkov

    13:09 08/08/2018

    In the Russian aircraft corporation "MiG" are going to create a fifth-generation MiG-41, said the company's CEO Ilya Tarasenko.

    Photo: Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

    According to Tarasenko, this project has been conducted for a long time, and soon the aircraft will be presented to the public.

    "No, this is not a mythical project, a project for the MiG long-standing, now we are intensively conducting these works under the auspices of the UAC and will soon present them to the public," he said.

    Tarasenko stressed that the project is in the stage of experimental and scientific work.

    Earlier in an interview with the television company "Star" Tarasenko said that the fifth-generation aircraft will be built on a two-engine scheme .

    According to him, the long-range interception aircraft complex will be built using low-visibility technology, will be able to work in near space.



    To me, all of this means more or less the following: we want to create a MiG-41 long range interceptor which will be up to date as per 5G design rules, which means it will include considerations for signature management. We work on the base of a two engine plane with a very high operative ceiling. We have been thinking about this new plane for a while, would like to present soon the results of our work.

    I can agree on what MiG would like to do. I cannot agree on that automatically meaning with 100% certainty that the plane will be stealth, operating in space with lasers, hypersonic and what not and in 2025. Don't know how can I make it clearer
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    George1

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:10 pm

    The situation at the Kazan Helicopter Plant

    The Tatarstan web resource "Real Time" under the heading "Yuri Pustovgarov:" Now the military accounts for about half of all helicopters being assembled at the KHZ. " The leadership of the KHP promises to transfer the labor collective at the end of the year to a 7-day working week "published an interview with Louise Ignatieva with the managing director of JSC" Kazan Helicopter Plant "(KHP, part of the JSC "Russian Helicopters") Yuri Pustovgarov.



    The International Forum "Army-2018" that was completed yesterday in the Kubinka suburb near Moscow left a double impression: on the one hand, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed state contracts for 132 billion with federal holdings for the next few years, and on the other hand, the Tatarstan enterprises as it were, from perspective projects. Does the KHP have prospects for increasing contracts with the Russian Defense Ministry? This was in an interview with the managing director of the Kazan Helicopter Plant, Yuri Pustovgarov.

    "The second novelty is the policeman "Ansat"

    - Yuri Leonidovich, what new did you bring to the show for the military?

    - We demonstrate the known and reliable Mi-17 helicopters, but in a new guise. Model Mi-17V-5 is a new export modification, which is made in accordance with the requirements of foreign customers. It has composite blades, an X-shaped control screw and is equipped with modern navigation systems that allow you to fly at night and defend against missiles. To date, KHP, part of the holding "Helicopters of Russia", produced more than 11 thousand helicopters of this family. And the second novelty is the policeman Ansat. It is designed for patrolling and guarding the terrain. Unlike previous modifications, it is equipped with various devices that help to work in the complex for law enforcement and perform rescue functions.

    I can say that this year the KHP forwarded the next batch of five Mi-8MTV-5 military transport helicopters with the newest on-board defense complex within the framework of the state defense order ahead of schedule. The equipment successfully passed the necessary tests and was accepted by the military representation of the Ministry of Defense of Russia. The vehicles under the control of the helicopter crews have already arrived at their permanent deployment sites and have begun to fulfill the tasks for their intended purpose. These helicopters have a new system for creating passive interference. Also, places have been prepared for the installation of an onboard defense complex, which provides protection for the helicopter from the use of missiles with homing heads in the infrared radiation range. Military transport helicopter Mi-8MTV-5-1 is a new version of the Mi-8MTV-5 helicopter, improved taking into account the combat experience of the models of this family. This year, deliveries of several more shipments of helicopters are planned, which are at different stages of production. In accordance with the state defense order of 2018, the Helicopters of Russia expects to supply about new helicopters, including Mi-8 type aircraft.

    - Do you need more Ansats to the military department?

    - For the RF Ministry of Defense, we supply training Ansats for training pilots. Already today, 50 aircraft are flying and in service. In the training center of the Ministry of Defense, they are flying cadets, cars have a good raid, hours of work, and everyone praises this helicopter.

    "This is a terrible military secret"

    - At the end of this year, the KHP should present a prototype of a heavy Mi-38 helicopter ...

    "No, we have to start certification flights, and we'll start them."

    - Then at what stage is this preparatory work?

    "It's a terrible military secret (laughs)." Well, look! When the first production car rolls out, then a show is made of it. And this one is at work. Above it still work and work. Therefore, from this show there will definitely not be any.

    - How much is the Ministry of Defense loading the KHP?

    - At present, the military accounts for about half of all helicopters assembled at the KHP. The rest is made under export contracts. I believe that 50 to 50 is the ideal ratio for the financial stability of the enterprise.

    - Is it possible to say that in the future military orders will increase taking into account the supply of Mi-38?

    "We have a good plan, which is connected with the Mi-38 and Ansat." But for stability it is necessary to stand on two legs, and not on one leg. It would be ideal if there were 50 to 50. We will try to stick to this line.

    - Rosaviatsiya (Federal Air Transport Agency) is discussing with the leaders of flight schools the possibility of updating the fleet of obsolete Mi-8 with the supply of light Ansat helicopters ...

    - For the first time I hear that Rosaviatsiya is engaged in this. Such negotiations are our competence, and we conduct them not only with schools, but also with higher educational institutions and with training centers.

    Now a large group of medical "Ansatov" is born. Their number will be so great that today they simply do not have pilots. There is a question of training in piloting. To do this, we will have to strain very hard in the coming year and create an actually new training center. We need to create both simulators and support systems for operation. And it is quite possible that within the framework of the program for the development of sanitary aviation, a number of agreements will be concluded with the operators and with some of the civil aviation establishments. I know that this work is on. It will be compulsory. Without this, the helicopter can not live.

    - Did you manage to optimize the cost of the Ansat helicopter?

    - Now the optimization work is in full swing.

    "Only two people know: one is there, one is here"

    - In connection with the program of medical "Ansatov", the participation of 34 regions of the Russian Federation was discussed and it was assumed that the number of regions would increase, and accordingly, the KHP will have the opportunity to increase production ...

    - It was not discussed. We are talking only about the formation of this program, the primary documents have been issued, instructions have been given, and there are no final documents for 34 regions. There is only a document establishing who will perform this function. Now we are preparing economic and financial decisions on the launch of this program. This program will take at least 2-3 years. Then it should have continuation. We hope that for 5-6 years we will have a firm order under this program.

    - I would like to ask one more "secret" question. Now we talked with your Indian colleagues (we are talking about the leading Indian aircraft building corporation Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, HAL exhibited several models of its own helicopters at the exhibition.) Representatives told that by September 15, the Ministry of Defense of India should be agreed price of the contract with Russia.

    - There are no Indian colleagues with whom you can discuss this.

    "So those are the ones who know ..."

    - No one knows. Only two people know: one is there, one is here. But when they meet ....

    - And about September 15, you say something?

    - Absolutely incomprehensible date, is not tied to anything. The next date - see when there will be big visits ... As I know, on September 15, no one is going to visit anyone.

    - When will the KHP leave the part-time workweek? Here Ulan-Ude aircraft works in full force. And why are you not?

    - According to my signed order, in September we will move to full working week. Come to the plant on Friday - you will see that our parking lot is crowded with cars: the part-time work week has not affected all employees. And at the end of the year, you will have to work 7 days a week.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3321816.html
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    eehnie

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  eehnie on Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:31 am

    LMFS

    1.- I would like to see the link where Bondarev said it, because in the following news he said explicitly the MiG-41 is under development, between other interesting and clear things also bolded in green.

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201712201159-ipn8.htm
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftvzvezda.ru%2Fnews%2Fopk%2Fcontent%2F201712201159-ipn8.htm

    The Russian interceptor MiG-41 will become the fastest fighter in the world
    Vadim Kolesnikov 12:04 12/12/2017
    The head of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security, Viktor Bondarev, said that the new long-range intercept aircraft complex will be represented.
    Российский перехватчик МиГ-41 станет самым быстрым истребителем в мире
    Photo: Alexey Ivanov / TRK Zvezda
    The MiG-41, a long-range long-range intercept aircraft complex - PAC DP, [color=#009900]will be the fastest fighter in the world and will be able to deal with hypersonic missiles, Senator Viktor Bondarev told Interfax.

    [b]"It is assumed that the MiG-41 will be the fastest in the world, the most invisible for radars. It will be able to withstand not only standard low-maneuverable threats like cruise missiles, bombers, drones, but also threats from hypersonic missiles, "
    said the former commander of the Russian Air Force.

    According to him, the range of PAK DP is laid in the range from 700 to 1500 kilometers. The armament will be the R-37 air-to-air missile, as well as the next-generation missiles.

    "The MiG-41 is under development. About his admission to the troops to speak prematurely, but most likely it will not be until 2025, "added Bondarev.

    It is assumed that the MiG-41 should replace the MiG-31 interceptor, whose service life expires in 2028.

    Recall, in mid-December, the general designer of the United Aircraft Corporation Sergei Korotkov said that the work on the establishment of PAK DP may begin as early as next year.

    At the moment there is a process of discussing the technical assignment for the aircraft between the developer of RAC "MiG" and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. It is not excluded that the future interceptor will be able to perform tasks in near space . ■

    Viktor Nikolaevich Bondarev (Russian: Виктор Николаевич Бондарев; born December 7, 1959, in Voronezh, USSR) is a Colonel General[1] and former Commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces (1 August 2015 - 26 September 2017)[/quote]

    Are you confused with the words bolded in blue? Even these words would have a different meaning of what you said because in the point 4 of this message, bolded also in blue, you will see the same person saying that the creation of the MiG-41 was continuing.

    2.- Obviously the design is not closed, and will not be closed until the approval of the testing results of the of the prototypes. After the approval of the Preliminary Desing, habitually begins the Technical Project, that allows to the construction of prototypes and their testing for a definite approval of the Ministry of Defense and the adoption/commission of the armament. Obviously a Preliminary Design is not a finished design, but is something serious enough to allow a public presentation of the project.

    At this point, taking into account the reports about both projects, the MiG-41-PAK-DP can be in approximately the same stage of development than the Tu-PAK-DA.

    3.- I would like to see the link to the words that you assigned to Tarasenko about serial (explicitly) production by 2025.

    4.- The work on this project has been impulsed by the Ministry of Defense since the begin.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t3335p175-mig-41-new-interceptor#225356
    https://militaryarms.ru/voennaya-texnika/aviaciya/mig-41/
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmilitaryarms.ru%2Fvoennaya-texnika%2Faviaciya%2Fmig-41%2F

    ...
    05/04/2018
    ...
    Earlier this year, Vice President of the Russian United Aircraft Corporation Sergei Korotkov told reporters that work on the creation of a new MiG-41 fighter was continuing.  According to him, this will be a new generation machine that will replace the MiG-31 high-altitude fighter interceptor developed in the mid-1970s.  Also Korotkov said that in the creation of a new car, not only designers OKB im.  Mikoyan, but also representatives of other enterprises of the national defense industry.

    Developments are carried out in accordance with the assignment that was prepared by the Russian Ministry of Defense, that is, no work is initiated on initiative (and it has often happened in the past) it is not. The military really needs a new aircraft to replace the deserved MiG-31.

    Sergei Korotkov: Vice President and General Designer of the Russian United Aircraft Corporation. Previously was head of MiG (predecessor of Tarasenko).
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    LMFS

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  LMFS on Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:22 pm

    @eehnie:

    I posted the sources I had. Mind you, they are almost all very vague and that alone should tell you there are more questions than answers about this project.

    Not doubting it will be eventually developed, just very wary that we are talking about a project where only preliminary work at a small scale is being executed (which is quite ok but points to a very early stage) and many extraordinary claims with doubtful substance are spread for PR reasons. We will have news in 2019 I guess.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:34 am

    I'd say wait till 2020 before we get much news.

    Reason why, is that will be about the right time we learn of adjustments made in sap 2027 program and the requirements.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:30 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I'd say wait till 2020 before we get much news.

    Reason why, is that will be about the right time we learn of adjustments made in sap 2027 program and the requirements.

    especially that international and economic situation might look slightly differently then today
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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:48 pm

    I have seen the date 2028 mentioned quite a bit as the date the MiG-31 needs to start to be replaced, and certainly a lot of new technologies and materials need to be mastered before the MiG-41 could be in service.

    They have the new types of radar which would be critical for stealthy use, not to mention high temperature aluminium for non hot areas and likely titanium alloys for hot areas on the air frame, and of course new generation likely variable cycle jet engines... perhaps incorporating turbojets and ramjets, perhaps with a pulse jet method of operation to increase thrust, but ramjets could certainly be used for fight at speeds of mach 4.2.

    Scramjets would be needed to fly faster than this but would not be needed for only Mach 4.2.

    Ramjets are not brand new technology... a pulse ramjet would be interesting....

    Of course in terms of weapons.... new missiles developed from S-400 (big and small) as well as S-500 for super long range air to air as well as air to space use are likely future developments too.
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    George1

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  George1 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:30 am

    The situation at PJSC "Kazan Helicopter Plant"

    Alexander Mladenov, the editor of the Bulgarian magazine AERO, told our blog that he recently visited JSC Kazan Helicopter Plant (KVZ) and got acquainted with the situation of the enterprise, this plant in 2016-2017 was the strongest in the Russian helicopter construction industry due to a drop in export sales of Russian helicopters . However, now the future of the company looks in a slightly more optimistic tone. It is noted that the production cycle for helicopters of the Mi-8/17 families is 12 months, for Ansat - eight months, and for the Mi-38 - 14 months.



    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3333805.html
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    LMFS

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  LMFS on Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:56 am

    Proposal to increase the speed of existing helicopters:

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5540996

    Maybe has to do with the modified rotor and blades designed for the PSV?

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