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    Military Aviation Industry: News

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    GarryB

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:19 am

    I can't see the MiG-31 being state of the art by 2024.... by then they will need to have a replacement in sight and I would suggest that no model PAK FA will do the job.

    A lighter cheaper stealthy fighter makes sense... whether the Russians can get the UAE to pay for it or they have to pay for it themselves is another matter.

    The UAE certainly made the Pantsir from a capable but basic system into a very capable system with their funding and demands that things be much improved...


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:01 pm

    GarryB wrote:I can't see the MiG-31 being state of the art by 2024.... by then they will need to have a replacement in sight and I would suggest that no model PAK FA will do the job.

    A lighter cheaper stealthy fighter makes sense... whether the Russians can get the UAE to pay for it or they have to pay for it themselves is another matter.

    The UAE certainly made the Pantsir from a capable but basic system into a very capable system with their funding and demands that things be much improved...

    UAE's contribution to the Pantsir was the S2 model, which is extensively used by Russia now.  After various tests in Syria, Russia is upgrading it themselves.  UAE only had the initial contribution.  Now the rest is done by Russia.  Although, I imagine the UAE will be interested in further iterations and upgrades.

    On that note though, being tight lipped about the MiG deal with UAE may not be a good thing, since it is possibly just paperwork agreements and nothing else.

    MiG-31 will have to be eventually replaced, but with what? I don't know. I imagine Sukhoi may design it and Mikoyan may build it. I don't know.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:23 am

    UAE's contribution to the Pantsir was the S2 model, which is extensively used by Russia now. After various tests in Syria, Russia is upgrading it themselves. UAE only had the initial contribution. Now the rest is done by Russia. Although, I imagine the UAE will be interested in further iterations and upgrades.

    The Russian AF was happy with a 12km range Pantsir and was not putting any more money into the design.

    The UAE demanded upgrades of all radar and sensor systems and new missiles with new boosters to extend range to 20km.

    Without the UAE (demands and money) the Pantsir system would be fairly ordinary...

    MiG-31 will have to be eventually replaced, but with what? I don't know. I imagine Sukhoi may design it and Mikoyan may build it. I don't know.

    Yeah and get Polikarpov to design a new trainer...

    WTF would Sukhoi know about designing interceptors? Their best work... Su-15 was pretty ordinary compared with the MiG-25 and MiG-31 and the Su9 and Su-11 even more ordinary.

    The replacement for the MiG-31 will be a MiG... or possibly a Tupolev variant of the Tu-160M2... Smile


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:30 am

    Good luck then having Mikoyan get the contract. UAC is taking full control and merging the two corporations by end of this year.

    As for the Pantsir, it would have been upgraded with or without UAE in the end. UAE just speed up the process and funding, so it was good on them for that.

    Although, with the Finance ministry of Russia wanting to decrease defense spending and increase the interior forces (FSB, National Guard, etc) spending, then who knows what will happen now.
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    George1

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:15 am

    Production and repair of aviation and industrial engines at PJSC "Kuznetsov"

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2887602.html


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    GarryB

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:47 am

    Good luck then having Mikoyan get the contract. UAC is taking full control and merging the two corporations by end of this year.

    If MIG can't do it because it is being merged with Sukhoi then how can Sukhoi able to do it as they would be being merged with MiG wouldn't they?

    As for the Pantsir, it would have been upgraded with or without UAE in the end. UAE just speed up the process and funding, so it was good on them for that.

    No it would not.

    As I explained the Russian AF was happy with the standard model Pantsir with 12km range missiles and 2A72 single barrel cannon.

    The UAE demanded the new versions of the 2A38M cannon with longer life and better accuracy and the new rocket boosters for the missiles to extend range to 20km, and it demanded all new sensors instead of upgrades for all sensors because of the increase in missile range.

    The result is a much better system that the Russian AF never would have demanded.

    The Russian Army will likely adopt a version of it to replace Tunguska and the navy will use a version of it as well to replace Kashtan-M (though of course with Gatling guns rather than the twin barrel guns).

    The Russian Army just upgraded Tunguska and the Navy upgraded Kashtan when the original Pantsir was available...

    Regarding funding, the MiG-41 or what ever they call the replacement for the MiG-31 is pretty much guaranteed because the Aerospace Defence forces and the Air Force will fund it.

    The Pantsir seems to have a life of its own with the SM models having a range of 40km which is quite astounding.


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:20 pm

    Pantsir is seeing upgrades from its service in Syria. So yes, it would have obtained upgrades with or without UAE.  Upgrades were shown at Army 2017

    Plus, forgot to also mention that they are still working on the hypersonic missiles for Pantsir.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:49 am

    Like I said, without UAE money actually paying for new sensors and new missiles and systems the Air Force would not have spent the money.

    As far as they were concerned a 12km range missile system was good enough because it was for use against cruise missile attack on an S-300 or S-400 battery

    The system wont detect low flying cruise missiles at much more than 8-12 km anyway, so they would definitely have not spent money on 20km range missiles.

    For the Army and Navy however the extra range is a bonus as it keeps threats like attack helos beyond ATGM missile range, or in the case of the navy it starts hitting incoming anti ship missiles earlier so over a specific time period it can kill more threats, which is good for mass attacks.

    In many ways you could say the same thing about the Su-30MKI keeping Sukhoi on their toes and working on state of the art systems and equipment which ultimately benefited the Su-35 and PAK FA.

    Obviously combat experience can be further applied to improve systems in ways no obvious to a developer... just making it easier to operate or maintain, or better able to move on the battlefield or easier to wash down or whatever.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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