Syrian War: News #11

Modernized Tiger E. They would have been better off copying Tiger B with a few reactive plates here and there.

NATzO is supposed to kick Russia's a** with this crap. Technicolor delusion of the hubris rotted mind.

PapaDragon wrote:

calm wrote:ISIS vid from fighting in northern Syria: Destroyed Leopard 2A4s. Performance of German MBT vs ATGM rather mediocre.

Hardly a surprise.

No ERA tiles, no active protection. Just steel and power of advertising.

What were they expecting?

Plus they have A4s, first major armor improvements were performed on A5s.

auslander wrote:Modernized Tiger E. They would have been better off copying Tiger B with a few reactive plates here and there.

ERA on something like Tiger? What are you trying to do, kill everyone in it?

These Leopard 2A4 tanks seem to have a tendency to burn and blow their turrets just like the Ukrainian T-64s.

It's the way they use it. Turkish forces make same mistakes over and over again. Now give them Armata tank and result will be the same. I am inclined to believe that there are only few armed forces in the world that can pull off combined warfare especially against insurgency.

Militarov wrote:

auslander wrote:Modernized Tiger E. They would have been better off copying Tiger B with a few reactive plates here and there.

ERA on something like Tiger? What are you trying to do, kill everyone in it?

No B model or JT was penetrated from the front in combat operations. Front, sides and rear will take ERA. Face hardened armor of varying thickness but more than thick enough to do the job. Of course, one also has the size of the beast and the slight change in armor concept and enhancements over the last 70 odd years. What struck me was the side profile of the Leo turret sans ERA is more than passing similar to the first Tiger, both Henschel and Porsche models. Krupp made the turrets, don't remember if Krupp designed them or assisted in the design. Turret was asymmetrical.

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

calm wrote:ISIS vid from fighting in northern Syria: Destroyed Leopard 2A4s. Performance of German MBT vs ATGM rather mediocre.

Hardly a surprise.

No ERA tiles, no active protection. Just steel and power of advertising.

What were they expecting?

Plus they have A4s, first major armor improvements were performed on A5s.

Actually it's not true, these tanks are totally different from the storage Leo2A4 that Poland got, they were overhauled in 2005 and 2008 in two batches, one of those included a whole new FCS and detection module as well as a new TIS for the TC. For the rest looking at the positions where the Leopards were hit there's 0 difference made. M60T equipped with ERA got hit and disabled on the front with total penetration and wounded seriously the gunner and the loader, gunner took a direct hit. ERA wouldn't do jack, the issue is the glorious Idea to have the rack exposed that much. While the Autoloader is sometimes a liability for Legacy Soviet tanks, it is also, in many ways the best feature, Autoloader is seated deep and there's little chance it gets penetrated on level attacks. Western tanks, while allowing the crew to escape more or less in one piece, also kill the fighting ability of the vehicle, as much of the ammunition is stored in the RTU racks. This also works if the crew is airtight in doctrine, this means that they will scrupulously respect the process, pick round, punch blast door shut, load, fire, punch blast door open, pick round etc.

This gets really difficult in heavy load combat, especially when using the tank as a mobile armored pillbox. Some times people will simply keep the shutter open in all circumstances as to minimize delay. Well they know they shouldn't now.

Last point, one tank was blown by Air Attack (Mangled hull, Charred Turret), one was blown by Metis-M (almost not burn marks). BTW there's one indicator of the very big liability that is the Front hull rack, you can see it detonated after airstrike and the hull was ripped apart. The other issue rests with the rack and shutter that doesn't seem to work properly, one tank was hit and burnt to crisp without turret separation. That tank was the one that was attacked by ATGM before the actual Suicide attacks occurred.

Leopard is a massive target and has massive flat surfaces. It is begging to get an ATGM in the face.



1:54 in video, blood of Gunner/Loader in the rack rest is visible.

Salt required but interesting if true:

Turkish forces to allow Syrian Army to liberate Al-Bab: report

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/turkish-forces-allow-syrian-army-liberate-al-bab-report/

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-surrenders-hard-fought-points-liberated-in-deir-ezzor/

Another reason is apparently a big storm will hit tomorrow preventing close air support and lowering visibility immensely, which assists the ISIS suicide bombers and vehicles in getting close without being detected. The SAA is expecting a major attack at that point. It will present the best opportunity for the ISIS to take the airfield so they will probably be throwing all into it.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

calm wrote:ISIS vid from fighting in northern Syria: Destroyed Leopard 2A4s. Performance of German MBT vs ATGM rather mediocre.

Hardly a surprise.

No ERA tiles, no active protection. Just steel and power of advertising.

What were they expecting?

Plus they have A4s, first major armor improvements were performed on A5s.

Actually it's not true, these tanks are totally different from the storage Leo2A4 that Poland got, they were overhauled in 2005 and 2008 in two batches, one of those included a whole new FCS and detection module as well as a new TIS for the TC. For the rest looking at the positions where the Leopards were hit there's 0 difference made. M60T equipped with ERA got hit and disabled on the front with total penetration and wounded seriously the gunner and the loader, gunner took a direct hit. ERA wouldn't do jack, the issue is the glorious Idea to have the rack exposed that much. While the Autoloader is sometimes a liability for Legacy Soviet tanks, it is also, in many ways the best feature, Autoloader is seated deep and there's little chance it gets penetrated on level attacks. Western tanks, while allowing the crew to escape more or less in one piece, also kill the fighting ability of the vehicle, as much of the ammunition is stored in the RTU racks. This also works if the crew is airtight in doctrine, this means that they will scrupulously respect the process, pick round, punch blast door shut, load, fire, punch blast door open, pick round etc.

This gets really difficult in heavy load combat, especially when using the tank as a mobile armored pillbox. Some times people will simply keep the shutter open in all circumstances as to minimize delay. Well they know they shouldn't now.

Last point, one tank was blown by Air Attack (Mangled hull, Charred Turret), one was blown by Metis-M (almost not burn marks). BTW there's one indicator of the very big liability that is the Front hull rack, you can see it detonated after airstrike and the hull was ripped apart. The other issue rests with the rack and shutter that doesn't seem to work properly, one tank was hit and burnt to crisp without turret separation. That tank was the one that was attacked by ATGM before the actual Suicide attacks occurred.

Leopard is a massive target and has massive flat surfaces. It is begging to get an ATGM in the face.



1:54 in video, blood of Gunner/Loader in the rack rest is visible.

From what i recall A4s that were revorked to A5 and A6 standards were cut open and additional armor inserts were welded and then sealed again. I am not sure if such thing was performed on Turkish A4s i highly doubt.

Plus Turks are using them like moving pileboxes, equally bad as Syrians did during fist year of the war.

Pictures of turks losses in syria

https://imgur.com/a/7Yrny

Reconciliation up to 1140 settlements and 104 armed groups either in reconciliation or maintaining non-fighting truces with the Syrian government.

As a side note have read in the past couple of weeks in various locations that ~200 former rebels have joined the Desert Hawks and ~2300 former rebels have joined the SAA. This in addition to those local militiamen absorbed into the NDF.



http://www.geopolmonitor.com/russia-open-new-reconciliation-center-syria/

higurashihougi wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Hardly a surprise.

No ERA tiles, no active protection. Just steel and power of advertising.

What were they expecting?

Steel and some empty spaces. Leo 2AXX relies on spaced armour rather than ERA.

At least it is much better than M1 Abrams, which is completely naked.

franco wrote:https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-surrenders-hard-fought-points-liberated-in-deir-ezzor/

Another reason is apparently a big storm will hit tomorrow preventing close air support and lowering visibility immensely, which assists the ISIS suicide bombers and vehicles in getting close without being detected. The SAA is expecting a major attack at that point. It will present the best opportunity for the ISIS to take the airfield so they will probably be throwing all into it.

It seems like the SAA again recaptured some key area in the cemetery.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/scores-terrorists-killed-syrian-army-takes-fight-isis-deir-ezzr/

According to a military source in Deir Ezzor, the Syrian Arab Army advanced at least 400 meters through the cemetery, forcing the Islamic State terrorists to withdraw from several points after suffering a number of casualties. Among the points captured by the Syrian Arab Army on Sunday was the strategic cemetery hill, which overlooks the Deir Ezzor Bus Station.

Leopard 2A4 has a composite front armour (Titanium was used with Tungsten inserts). The problem, again, is that the Area where the tanks were hit have between 80 to 300 mm thickness and were hit flat. Even with add on panels the thickness goes to 200/420mm flat. This means that ANY Soviet ATGM WILL. FUCK. THEM. UP. Even the Yugo improved Malyutka-B/M will go through and hit the rack. Abrams is marginally better in thickness, rack flat is 120mm, Side armour is about 400 max vs 350 mm for the A4. Really nothig to write home about against Konkurs. This is why I'm literally going nuts and am asking myself, WTF Saddam where are the ATGM's son?

So relax and enjoy the shitshow.

Up to 20 TOW missiles recently captured by Syrian Army from terrorist rebels in 
Damascus eastern ghouta. 



https://southfront.org/govt-forces-seize-at-least-12-tow-missiles-en-route-to-eastern-ghouta/

calm wrote:Turkish army and FSA captured Tel Rehal, Kharabishah, pro-Assad forces: Khan Hfirah and Diriyah - to meet soon

Irony & sarcasm will be really thick really soon...

No, let's squeeze the Kurds in between, there is still some space.  

calm wrote:
No, let's squeeze the Kurds in between, there is still some space.  

https://glav.su/files/messages/2017/01/23/4239059_91110e2fa764c77e1940a79a5baed0b3.jpg

BREAKING NEWS: First photo of Turkish and Kurdish forces linking up outside Al Bab:



https://lygsbtd.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/dirty-hippies.jpg?w=655&h=282

First confirmed kill of a T-90A ever:
Video showing T-90 burning after hit by #ISIS #ATGM in Khanasser area.
Why fire comes from only one hatch, while the second also open? Brning is not a tank, but something on the it.

https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/823622993679155202

^
No,  Fatemiyoun Brigade T-90, Khanaser.
https://twitter.com/SyrianMilitary/status/823629526714433536

What I'm surpised at is why the **** did the syrian tank crew abandon the tank if it was largely undamaged. God, are these tankists cowards or what? They constantly complain how they need more T-90s, but abandon perfectly repairable machines to the enemy.

Fuckin monkeys.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:What I'm surpised at is why the **** did the syrian tank crew abandon the tank if it was largely undamaged. God, are these tankists cowards or what? They constantly complain how they need more T-90s, but abandon perfectly repairable machines to the enemy.

Fuckin monkeys.

Crew was Iranian.

And you do leave a tank if you suffer mobility kill and need to retreat, they do that everywhere if situation forces you onto such move.