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    Russian Economy General News: #8

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    KiloGolf
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:54 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:And I'm not uninformed regarding my hostility. You guys proven yourselves to be incompetent. Only reason why quasi Nazis like golden dawn has any kind of popularity as no one else want to pay taxes but wants gib me dats and overtly cucked politicians who instantly throw away campaign promises as soon as they win.

    You're assuming and lumping up because you lack information and clarity, and you are OT as well. None of what you're trying to say is relevant.
    Talking about a year's Russian defense budget is big money, even if spread along a decade or a half.
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    miketheterrible
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:17 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:And I'm not uninformed regarding my hostility. You guys proven yourselves to be incompetent. Only reason why quasi Nazis like golden dawn has any kind of popularity as no one else want to pay taxes but wants gib me dats and overtly cucked politicians who instantly throw away campaign promises as soon as they win.

    You're assuming and lumping up because you lack information and clarity, and you are OT as well. None of what you're trying to say is relevant.
    Talking about a year's Russian defense budget is big money, even if spread along a decade or a half.

    No, it really isnt. Better inform yourself better about total of Russia's economic system.80B  is 3% in 1 year. A decade of sap2020 is overl $300B. That's money. So please go talk to your locals about economics here, cause your lack of knowledge isn't impressing anyone. Maybe a lot for Greece to bail themselves out and help pay off their imf loan.

    Why I mentioned the informed racism is simply because it is a reminder to you of where you come from and why your opinions are easily discarded.


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    KiloGolf
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:22 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:No, it really isnt. Better inform yourself better about total of Russia's economic system.80B  is 3% in 1 year. A decade of sap2020 is overl $300B. That's money. So please go talk to your locals about economics here, cause your lack of knowledge isn't impressing anyone.

    I don't think 3% of one's GDP is a negligible number.
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    miketheterrible
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:25 pm

    Maybe 1 year maybe, far more is lost in corruption. Broken up by 5 years? Far more pissed away on gambles.
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:27 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Maybe 1 year maybe, far more is lost in corruption. Broken up by 5 years? Far more passed away on gambles.

    I also don't think it's the right thread to bring up the Soviet and post-Soviet Russia, as being arguably the best example of what you just posted.
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:52 pm

    What are you on? It was of recent years Russia blew more money or lost in corruption and schemes. A trillion+.

    Sucks but whatever is happening now is to prevent the same mishaps in the future.
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:00 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:What are you on? It was of recent years Russia blew more money or lost in corruption and schemes. A trillion+.

    Sucks but whatever is happening now is to prevent the same mishaps in the future.

    I'm not opposed to the Russian economic policy at all. It's the right way to go If you ask me.
    As we speak the Gulf economies suffer budget deficits of declared 10-20% and undeclared probably near 30-40%. Now that's corruption right there. Russia was fast in 2015 and 2016 to draft realistic budgets that will only gain them money if oil stays above $40.
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:13 am

    Austin wrote:CBR Chief seems to be extremely opposed to QE  and Morgan Stanley calls her the most Orthodox Economist of developing Europe

    I think what CBR can do is try to implement QE on experimental basis , Print 5 trillion Roubles and lend it directly to Russian Government at say 3 % interest rate and let Government only invest in Infrastructure Projects in Russia .....Any project that can give good returns to Government , be it railways roads airports bridges etc.

    5 trillion roughly translates  to ~ $80 billion not a small amount and not big either.

    Fed QE failed because 98 % of the money just went into market into inflating stock prices but into into infra project , Thats why DT is coming with 1 Trillion USD QE for funding infra projects

    Nobody is calling for QE in Russia. QE is not a 5% interest rate. QE is Pancho Villa money printing, full stop.

    This cunt and her backers are diverting the discussing into the non-issue of QE. The issue is that 10.5% is bad for
    Russia's economy, full stop.
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:22 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:What are you on? It was of recent years Russia blew more money or lost in corruption and schemes. A trillion+.

    Sucks but whatever is happening now is to prevent the same mishaps in the future.

    I'm not opposed to the Russian economic policy at all. It's the right way to go If you ask me.
    As we speak the Gulf economies suffer budget deficits of declared 10-20% and undeclared probably near 30-40%. Now that's corruption right there. Russia was fast in 2015 and 2016 to draft realistic budgets that will only gain them money if oil stays above $40.

    that is because Russians are smart people. Middle eastern Gulf camel jockeys not so much. While corruption is a problem, there are people in high places all the way down to common person in Russia whom is fighting it and wanting to fight it, with FSB running that behind the scenes. The gulf nations? People at top are as corrupt as an Italian politician, but the people below are just ignorant and dumb so they don't care (their corrupt as well as the their government hands them money so they don't end up as savage terrorists against the royalty).
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:48 am

    miketheterrible wrote:that is because Russians are smart people. Middle eastern Gulf camel jockeys not so much.  While corruption is a problem, there are people in high places all the way down to common person in Russia whom is fighting it and wanting to fight it, with FSB running that behind the scenes. The gulf nations? People at top are as corrupt as an Italian politician, but the people below are just ignorant and dumb so they don't care (their corrupt as well as the their government hands them money so they don't end up as savage terrorists against the royalty).

    An example is Kuwait, they will introduce a VAT of 6% first time in their history, while they are increasing gas prices to about 12 cents on the dollar from 10. The locals are angry and now they are contemplating of taxing foreign residents (read infidels) more than locals, on anything that is taxed. Yet nobody in the 'civilized world' is crying apartheid here. This is just in yesterday by the way.
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  zg18 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:26 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:What are you on? It was of recent years Russia blew more money or lost in corruption and schemes. A trillion+.

    Sucks but whatever is happening now is to prevent the same mishaps in the future.

    I'm not opposed to the Russian economic policy at all. It's the right way to go If you ask me.
    As we speak the Gulf economies suffer budget deficits of declared 10-20% and undeclared probably near 30-40%. Now that's corruption right there. Russia was fast in 2015 and 2016 to draft realistic budgets that will only gain them money if oil stays above $40.

    Russia was able to whiter oil price collapse primarily due to letting ruble freely float ie. letting markets determine the value vs dollar. Gulf nations can`t do that for several reasons, their population living standards rest on subsidies and except energy they are importers of food & goods, lack of diversified economy - if any non-oil linked economy - means decoupling from dollar equals to hyperinflationary collapse. They are in the same trap as Soviet Union was in the eighties, even deeper.
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:20 am

    zg18 wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:What are you on? It was of recent years Russia blew more money or lost in corruption and schemes. A trillion+.

    Sucks but whatever is happening now is to prevent the same mishaps in the future.

    I'm not opposed to the Russian economic policy at all. It's the right way to go If you ask me.
    As we speak the Gulf economies suffer budget deficits of declared 10-20% and undeclared probably near 30-40%. Now that's corruption right there. Russia was fast in 2015 and 2016 to draft realistic budgets that will only gain them money if oil stays above $40.

    Russia was able to whiter oil price collapse primarily due to letting ruble freely float ie. letting markets determine the value vs dollar. Gulf nations can`t do that for several reasons, their population living standards rest on subsidies and except energy they are importers of food & goods, lack of diversified economy - if any non-oil linked economy - means decoupling from dollar equals to hyperinflationary collapse. They are in the same trap as Soviet Union was in the eighties, even deeper.

    The USSR was not a banana republic and was way more self sufficient than Russia is today. What you describe is
    classical banana republic economies, which these Middle Eastern oil/gas exporters are. They depend on a single
    commodity for most of their GDP. Since they have to import most everything else they cannot handle a large
    forex drop.

    Russia demonstrated in 2014 and 2015 that it is not a banana republic dependent on oil as claimed
    by NATO propagandists. Russia was slammed by financial sanctions, an oil price collapse and then devaluation of
    the ruble. The latter offset the oil price drop, but that demonstrates that the Russian oil sector is essentially
    self-sufficient and does not depend on imports of technology, services (know-how) and its costs are primarily in
    rubles. The oil industry is not a simple one like growing potatoes. It requires a high level of industrial and
    engineering development. It is also capital intensive so financing is available in spite of the sanctions.

    Over the last two years the financial sanctions induced a $200 billion retirement of loans by the Russian business
    sector (not the government sector). That a lot of money in ruble terms. So Russian companies did not go under
    due to the sanctions but unloaded their liabilities. This goes against the NATO propaganda narrative.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  Austin on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:26 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Austin wrote: $80 billion not a small amount and not big either.

    It's as much as Russia spent on defense in 2015.
    So that particular amount is very high for Russia, be it it's in rubles or USD.

    Not really , Russia 2015 defence spending is around ~ 3 trillion roubles

    What I was thinking was 5 trillion rouble in 5 years or 1 trillion per year
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  zg18 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:53 pm

    kvs wrote:

    The USSR was not a banana republic and was way more self sufficient than Russia is today.   What you describe is
    classical banana republic economies, which these Middle Eastern oil/gas exporters are.   They depend on a single
    commodity for most of their GDP.   Since they have to import most everything else they cannot handle a large
    forex drop.  

    I never said USSR was banana republic, Soviet Union needed lower ruble and it could not deliver primarily due to political reasons. Gorbachev sold "perestroika" but he in reality didn`t have the balls to make real reforms.
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  Rmf on Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:25 pm

    Austin wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Austin wrote: $80 billion not a small amount and not big either.

    It's as much as Russia spent on defense in 2015.
    So that particular amount is very high for Russia, be it it's in rubles or USD.

    Not really , Russia 2015 defence spending is around ~ 3 trillion roubles

    What I was thinking was 5 trillion rouble in 5 years or 1 trillion per year
    you cant print wealth , you only transfer it from poor to rich who use that money first when its most potent, and you lose middle class.... any printing is actually making people poorer invisibly, sometimes you can print little bit if increased goods in circulation and population increase, but thats tiny % and economy isnt growing.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:17 am

    Rosneft privatization deal is completed — Kremlin

    More:
    http://tass.com/economy/917512


    MOSCOW, December 7. /TASS/. The deal on privatization of shares in Russian oil major Rosneft is completed, Chief Executive Officer of the company Igor Sechin reported to Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday.

    "Igor Sechin reported to Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin that the privatization deal for 19.5% shares in Rosneft was completed," press secretary of the President Dmitry Peskov said. "A consortium of Glencore and Qatar’s sovereign fund has become the strategic investor," Peskov added.

    "The budget of the Russian Federation will receive 10.5 bln euro from the deal," Peskov said.

    Deal of the year


    Putin said Rosneft privatization is the largest deal of the year on the global energy market, the press secretary noted.

    Russian government approves documents on privatization of 19.5% of Rosneft

    "Vladimir Putin called it the largest deal on the global energy market in 2016," Peskov said.

    "President Putin congratulated Sechin and all those related to the transaction with success and noted that the deal was completed on the upward trend of oil prices," the press secretary added.


    The deal was made in the most successful time when oil prices are rising, Putin said at the meeting Sechin showed by Rossiya 24 TV Channel.

    "The deal was made on the upward trend of oil prices; accordingly this influences on the company value and time is highly successful in this sense," the president said.

    Сonversion of privatization earnings

    Putin instructed to perform phased conversion of revenues from Rosneft privatization into rubles in order to avoid exchange rate fluctuations, Peskov said.

    "The President noted a huge amount of currency [from the sale of Rosneft shares - TASS] will come to the country soon and an appropriate phased conversion system should be provided," Peskov said.

    "The President asked [Rosneft CEO Igor] Sechin to work out an appropriate conversion action plan in cooperation with the Government, the Finance Ministry, and the Central Bank," he added. Rosneft privatization deal should not lead to ruble fluctuations on currency market, according to Putin.

    Government will continue holding controlling stake in Rosneft, Putin said.

    Rosneft will consult with the Central Bank to develop the tactics in order to avoid market volatility outbreaks when converting currency from sales of the stake in the oil company, press service of the regulator told TASS on Wednesday. "The case in point is consultations of Rosneft with the Bank of Russia to work out such tactics during currency conversion, which will help to avoid short-term volatility outbreaks on the currency market," press service of the Bank of Russia said.
    Rosneft held talks with over 30 potential investors

    According to Sechin, Rosneft hold talks with more than 30 potential investors in the course of preparation of its 19.5% stake for sale.

    "We held commercial negotiations with over 30 companies, funds, institutional investors, sovereign funds and financial institutions of Europe, the US, Middle East, and Asia-Pacific nations," Sechin said.

    "The consortium becoming the Rosneft shareholder was created by Qatar’s sovereign fund and Glencore trading company, our long-term partner. Each of consortium members has 50%," Sechin said.

    Sechin added Consortium will pay for Rosneft shares by own and borrowed funds. Rosneft will set up joint venture in production sphere with the consortium participants.

    The deal is strategic, with additional agreements, he noted. Rosneft selling price is the highest possible, he added.

    Growing capitalization


    In general, Rosneft held talks with over 30 potential investors during preparations for selling a 19.5% stake. "We held commercial talks with over 30 companies, funds, professional investors, sovereign funds, financial institutions from the countries of Europe, America, Middle East, Asia Pacific," he concluded.

    "I am confident high quality of attracted investors and Rosneft’s transition to a new dividend payment standard approved as 35% by the government will definitely lead to growth of company’s capitalization. According to our estimates, the price of the stake owned by the government, despite sale, will grow approximately by 80 bln rubles ($1.3 bln)," Sechin said.

    The selling price of the stake in Rosneft is maximum possible, he noted. "The concluded transaction is a market one, based on stock prices of Rosneft. The selling price is a maximum possible from our point of view with a minimal discount, offered by the investor as 5% of exchange prices on December 6," Sechin said.

    More:
    http://tass.com/economy/917512

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:44 am

    Looks like after safe of 19.5 % of stake , Government will still own 55 % stake in Rosneft.

    19.5 % owned by BP
    5 % free float share perhaps this means in stock market
    19.5 % with Glencore + Qatar fund

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:06 am

    https://www.rt.com/business/369554-rosneft-biggest-privatization-deal/

    Sechin informed Putin about the closing of the share package sale and said that the Russian state budget will receive more than a trillion rubles ($17.5 billion) from this deal, and the acquisition of the Russian Bashneft oil company by Rosneft in October. Shocked


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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:49 am

    How can Bank of Japan can simply go on buying its own govt bonds when its public debt has risen to 250 % of GDP and growing ?

    Its almost like a perpetual motion machine.

    Even the inflation is zero in close to negitive range ?

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/core-inflation-rate


    What magic formulae has Japan invented of looting its people indefinately without worrying about Inflation or Credit Rating ?

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:41 pm

    Will a Modi-style clampdown on black money work in Russia?

    http://in.rbth.com/blogs/tatar_straits/2016/11/11/will-a-modi-style-clampdown-on-black-money-work-in-russia_646575

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  whir on Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:37 pm

    Austin wrote:Will a Modi-style clampdown on black money work in Russia?
    Forcing people to put their saving into banks is only going to foster poverty in the next economic downturn.
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:30 pm

    Austin wrote:Will a Modi-style clampdown on black money work in Russia?

    http://in.rbth.com/blogs/tatar_straits/2016/11/11/will-a-modi-style-clampdown-on-black-money-work-in-russia_646575

    didn't work for India: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-07/indian-economy-crashes-modis-black-money-theory-collapses
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  kvs on Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:51 pm

    whir wrote:
    Austin wrote:Will a Modi-style clampdown on black money work in Russia?
    Forcing people to put their saving into banks is only going to foster poverty in the next economic downturn.

    +1000

    These "black" money crackdowns are retarded. That money will circulate in the economy regardless. So there
    is zero justification for making it "clean". Of course, I am ignoring the obvious pretext: tax collection. Putin will
    be sorely disappointed that such crackdowns will not bring more money in the long and medium run. But I am
    sure he is aware of this since it was on his watch that taxes were reduced substantially which resulted
    in more tax revenue and not less.
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  Singular_Transform on Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:55 pm

    kvs wrote:
    whir wrote:
    Austin wrote:Will a Modi-style clampdown on black money work in Russia?
    Forcing people to put their saving into banks is only going to foster poverty in the next economic downturn.

    +1000

    These "black" money crackdowns are retarded. That money will circulate in the economy regardless. So there
    is zero justification for making it "clean". Of course, I am ignoring the obvious pretext: tax collection. Putin will
    be sorely disappointed that such crackdowns will not bring more money in the long and medium run. But I am
    sure he is aware of this since it was on his watch that taxes were reduced substantially which resulted
    in more tax revenue and not less.


    Black money = untaxed money = higher inflation = low level of living for the masses
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #8

    Post  kvs on Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:11 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    whir wrote:
    Austin wrote:Will a Modi-style clampdown on black money work in Russia?
    Forcing people to put their saving into banks is only going to foster poverty in the next economic downturn.

    +1000

    These "black" money crackdowns are retarded.  That money will circulate in the economy regardless.   So there
    is zero justification for making it "clean".   Of course, I am ignoring the obvious pretext: tax collection.   Putin will
    be sorely disappointed that such crackdowns will not bring more money in the long and medium run.   But I am
    sure he is aware of this since it was on his watch that taxes were reduced substantially which resulted
    in more tax revenue and not less.


    Black money = untaxed money = higher inflation = low level of living for the masses

    Where did you pull the "untaxed money = higher inflation" equality from? Perhaps you could provide some references
    for this profound equation.

    You do know that the government spends tax money, do you? So obviously it contributes to inflation.

    As an aside, black money =/= counterfeit money. It is money that hides from taxes. So there is obviously
    nothing wrong with it. And this discussion, trolled by Austin, is brain dead since Russia's black economy has
    been shrinking since 2000:

    https://www.rt.com/business/siluanov-shadow-economy-gdp-055/

    http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/issues/issues30/

    It was under 20% in 2013. In 1999 it was over 44% of the economy.

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