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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:36 am

    NATO and the US should examine the Russian mission to Syria as a model they would greatly benefit from copying.

    The efficient use of forces and equipment and weapons to minimise costs while maximising effectiveness is an example to countries around the world about how such things should be done.

    People talk about cruise missiles and cheap dumb bombs, but the revelation for me has been their ability to put special forces in the front lines to find targets and pass that information to those planning missions to allow accurate attacks to be taken place from what is pretty much medium altitude out of the range of MANPADS.

    If we remember in Kosovo some of the complaints were inaccuracies of the ability to attack ground target because of minimum operating height restrictions on NATO aircraft.

    It seems that Russian recon and C4ISTAR assets have gone from almost non-existent in Georgia in 08, to very effective in Syria... a transformation.

    With regard to sending Yak-130s to Syria, I would think its usefulness would be limited and the risk of getting expensive little trainers shot down would be too high.

    Using dumb cheap weapons means getting into the line of fire... return fire from 12.7mm, 14.5mm, 23mm, 30mm, 57mm and other calibre guns not to mention rockets and missiles supplied by who knows means such a mission is rather risky.

    Fitting them with G&T bomb aiming systems and targeting pods and dropping cheap simple dumb bombs from safe altitudes might be worth it... having to use expensive laser guided bombs from standoff range to keep them out of small arms range... well it just makes their use expensive or less safe.

    On the other hand getting a justification to reopen Su-25UB production in Russia could allow for new build aircraft that could be modified to further improve performance... and would be excellent in COIN type operations without being too expensive.


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    medo

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  medo on Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:40 am

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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:47 am

    ^
    Why is there no video on ZvezdaTV youtube channel?
    They always post it and delete it, and post it and delete, multiple times. I have no idea why they are doing that. But with every single part up till now they have don that.

    I just want 1080/720p. Laughing


    par far

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  par far on Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:23 pm

    calm wrote:^
    Why is there no video on ZvezdaTV youtube channel?
    They always post it and delete it, and post it and delete, multiple times. I have no idea why they are doing that. But with every single part up till now they have don that.

    I just want 1080/720p.  Laughing



    This is a very heart warming video, this is the difference between the Americans and Russians. Americans just want destruction, death and chaos. The Russians want life, order and peace. More videos like this is needed to show the world, what peace and love means.


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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:08 am

    par far wrote:This is a very heart warming video, this is the difference between the Americans and Russians. Americans just want destruction, death and chaos. The Russians want life, order and peace. More videos like this is needed to show the world, what peace and love means.

    Just look at that little girl at 1:10

    That man holding her is a MP commander in Aleppo, from Chechen unit.
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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:09 am

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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:24 pm


    This looks more like bastion(it is launched from here last year).

    same place, couple of months ago

    S300V4










    Tartus and Latakia Russian fortresses.
    There is one Pantsir in Tartous port, and maybe something else.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:56 pm

    [quote="calm"]
    calm wrote:New S300/400 in Syria

    This looks more like bastion(it is launched from here last year).

    same place, couple of months ago

    S300V4


    Tartus and Latakia Russian fortresses.
    There is one Pantsir in Tartous port, and maybe something else.

    Very interesting location, not quite on a straight line between Tartus and Hama and high in the mountains giving potentially really good radar range.

    Perfect spot for a SAM if indeed it is one.
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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:55 pm

    Russians in Rastan pocket. Face to Face with rebels during negotation.



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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:09 pm

    getoverit wrote:Can you plebs talk about something other than L-39 and focus more on facts , we lurkers come here for information and lately , what a waste of time; Arguments, insults and L-39 come on children

    All the best

    Me I have been trying to get him to stop lol I am more than happy to chat about other things you will see multiple times I've mentioned that this thread is about Russia's involvement in Syria not scrapping but eehnie has a bee in his bonnet about it lol. I have refused to mention it from now on if it's mentioned again it won't be by me
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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:05 pm

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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:17 pm

    The Russian Navy fired several cruise missiles towards the Isis positions in central Syria last night. targeted the Islamic State installations inside the terrorist group’s stronghold of ‘Uqayrbat

    https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/article/russian-navy-fires-cruise-missiles-towards-isil-held-central-syria-report/

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:19 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:The Russian Navy fired several cruise missiles towards the Isis positions in central Syria last night. targeted the Islamic State installations inside the terrorist group’s stronghold of ‘Uqayrbat

    https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/article/russian-navy-fires-cruise-missiles-towards-isil-held-central-syria-report/

    Must be scary when buildings suddenly explode around you with non of the advance warning from the sound of jets. More please!
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:05 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:The Russian Navy fired several cruise missiles towards the Isis positions in central Syria last night. targeted the Islamic State installations inside the terrorist group’s stronghold of ‘Uqayrbat

    https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/article/russian-navy-fires-cruise-missiles-towards-isil-held-central-syria-report/

    Must be scary when buildings suddenly explode around you with non of the advance warning from the sound of jets. More please!

    Agreed no chance to take any action I think it's great Russia has a chance to test them in combat although it would have been nice to test iskander and FOAB looooool against the scum.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:09 am

    Iskander proved its worth in Georgia...

    And regarding the FOAB... there is still time... Smile


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    nomadski

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  nomadski on Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:05 am


    @calm

    Good post about negotiations . Must be done where possible . But if they keep on fighting . Like the hard core terrorists . Then is it better to close the jaws of death and trap them . And annihilate them . Or allow them escape through narrow gap . So they retreat to more confined geographical area ? There , they can be annihilated en masse .

    The best possible scenario for terrorist . Is to occupy as large geographical area and do hit and run . The worst for them is to occupy small area and do set battle . It is the reverse situation for regular army . So it makes sense to allow them a retreat . So they can be collected in one area . There destroyed at once . Keep the gaps open .



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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:08 pm

    nomadski wrote:
    @calm

    Good post about  negotiations . Must be done where possible . But if they keep on fighting . Like the hard core terrorists . Then is it better to close the jaws of death and trap them . And annihilate them . Or allow them escape through narrow gap . So they retreat to more confined geographical area ?  There , they can be annihilated en masse .

    The best possible scenario for terrorist . Is to occupy as large geographical area and do hit and run . The worst for them is to occupy small area and do set battle . It is the reverse situation for regular army . So it makes sense to allow them a retreat . So they can be collected in one area . There destroyed at once . Keep the gaps open .
    In a 'normal' civil war there can be 'stay-behinds' that are then able to conduct a guerilla campaign. It doesn't look like this will be possible for ISIS, either, certainly out of the Euphrates valley, there is no chance of living off the land or the local population are not sympathetic to their cause. You could imagine the response if the Government put a price on their heads.

    By far the best solution, for the rest of the people in the Middle East and beyond is to just execute them as murderers etc on the spot. Especially the foreigners amongst them (majority?) who just came to wreak havoc on Syrians for fun.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:35 pm

    GarryB wrote:Iskander proved its worth in Georgia...

    And regarding the FOAB... there is still time... Smile

    I really want them to use FOAB. 

    I know it's completely unnecessary and total waste and overkill but I want to see it going off so bad.

    Can you imagine the porn??? pwnd
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:27 am

    I can imagine the western headlines.... thousands of schools and hospitals in Syria destroyed by evil Putin in a shallow and empty show of strength...

    And then they find it was actually the Americans that dropped the MOABs and then it is the bronzed US gods spreading peace and democracy and showing the bad guys (ie Putin) how it is done by the big boys.


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    nomadski

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  nomadski on Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:14 pm

    @johninmk

    It is a calculation . The most efficient way to dispose of them . I agree about this situation being abnormal . In normal war with normal soldier , once they are surrounded , and death is imminent , then most would surrender . But the psychology here is different . They believe wrongly that they will go to paradise . And they fight to the death . But so goes the narrative . But I think that human nature being what it is , that many will try to save themselves , faced with death . So they react in the normal way in psychological way . Or so I believe . The only real difference is about them being relatively lightly armed foot soldiers who essentially participate in guerrilla tactics .

    If we assume that essentially most will refuse to surrender or retreat . Then what you say is right . Despite their dispersion locking down much needed heavy equipment and armour and artillery . Then they have to be destroyed where they stand . But if what I say is right . That a big portion will choose to retreat if not surrender . Then allowing a retreat into a confined space . Will allow freeing up of heavy equipment . And form a more efficient killing machine at the end .

    So if we draw a graph of number who surrendered versus time . We soon see what the trend is . And if it is worth waiting or not . If graph flattens out . With no new numbers surrendering or retreating . Then it is time to close the gap . And despite the cost , finish them off where they stand . A calculation .

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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:38 am

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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:27 pm


    mnrck

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  mnrck on Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:02 pm

    calm wrote:
    respekt
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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:41 pm

    3 RQ21A not 2

    Chart exhibit of VKS 2017 SAM(#Pantsir-S1/2?)"kills" in Syria @ "Syrian War"pt. of Army-2017."Take with a pinch of salt" disclaimer applies.


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    franco

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  franco on Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:50 pm

    With the adoption of the military-political decision to provide Syria with military assistance, the primary task of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation was the deployment of a control system ensuring the creation of a grouping of troops on the territory of that state and the subsequent effective management of its actions.

    To this end, a three-level management system was built. It included the combat command group of the Russian Defense Ministry, the command of the grouping of troops in Syria and the operational groups of advisers on tactical directions.

    The work of the combat command group is organized around the clock by duty shifts at the National Defense Management Center. It consists of representatives of all central bodies of military command.

    The main tasks of the combat command group are the collection and assessment of the situation data, analysis of the decisions made by the command of the group and the planned further actions.

    Every day the duty shift prepares and presents to the Minister of Defense and the Chief of the General Staff a report on the current situation.

    Such a system of work allows the leadership of the Ministry of Defense to constantly own the situation and react quickly to its changes.

    In addition, through the combat command group, the interaction of the leadership of the Russian Defense Ministry with officials of the US defense ministries, the secretariat of the UN Secretary-General's Special Envoy for Syria in Geneva and Damascus, representatives of the Russian Federation in the Task Groups of the international support group of Syria, the Center for Rapid Response to Violations the regime for the cessation of hostilities in Geneva, as well as with representatives of other international organizations.

    This allows us to promptly organize the elaboration and coordination of military and political issues, exchange views on the current situation and conduct humanitarian actions in the Syrian settlements.

    For direct management in the territory of Syria, a management system has been deployed that ensures coordinated actions of the aviation group of the Russian Air Force, formations of government troops, the Republican Guard, self-defense units and people's militia.

    The composition of the formed and deployed at the Syrian airfield Khemeymim command post, the grouping of troops included representatives of the central bodies of military command and military districts.

    To control the troops, the operational composition of the command post of the grouping is divided into functional groups and centers.

    Special features of the deployment of the command post of the troop grouping and the organization of the communication system will be devoted to individual speeches in the framework of our conference.

    In addition, in order to exchange information about the air situation and to eliminate incidents involving the use of combat aircraft, the command of the group organized interaction with the US operations center in Jordan, the air traffic control center in Qatar, the Turkish Air Force control center and the Israeli command center.

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