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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

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    medo

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  medo on Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:47 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:The only thing missing from here is the word Mig. Russia could have easily deployed Mig-29SMT and Mig-31BM and show cased them. And there is even the possibility of even armed yak-130 being show cased using weapons out of range of anti air guns. I know mig 29K  was used but media and forums only remember the mig-29k running out of fuel and crashing into the sea. Just about Everything else apart from iskander has been used.

    Russia will not send Yak-130 to Syria as they are still only trainers in RuAF academies. MiG-29K was used in Syria, but they had a problem in not having enough pilots experienced with carrier operations and that was the reason, why they were not used in full capabilities and why they modernized and send Su-33 to Syria. MiG-31BM is compatible with Sukhois, but it is clear air defense interceptor and most probably RuAF doesn't want to escalate situation too much and Su-30SM and Su-35 could do this job as well. On the other hand Su-27SM3 is multirole fighter with the same equipment as Su-30M2 and they want to test N001VEP radar in real combat specially in air to ground modes to prove that export Su-30MK2 are capable fighter-bombers in real combat. Maybe they will later replace Su-27SM3 with Su-30M2.

    On the other hand it is really interesting, that they didn't send MiG-29SMT as it is multirole fighter. Most probably there is a problem, that MiG-29SMT doesn't have intra flight data link like Sukhois and MiG-31, but only simple ground to air control data link as old MiG-29 fighters and could not work with full capabilities inside network with Sukhois in Syria. Only newer MiG-29K and MiG-35 got those data link capabilities and are fully compatible with network. But RuAF still succesfully works with Syrian AF, which use MiG-21, MiG-23 and Su-22 jets so MiG-29SMT could work well in Syria.








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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:47 pm

    Agreed but still you would think due to increased interest in equipment being used in Syria that Russia would use other equipment to get countries interested in it also. The yak wouldn't take much to adapt to combat role. I think yak -130 would be doing better in sales if it made a combat missions in Syria. Mig-31BM could be used for escort for Tu-160, Tu-95, Tu-22M, freeing up the Su-30 & Su-35, and it would be good experience for pilots etc.
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Regular on Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:11 pm

    I also think that YAK-130 could do wonders in Syria.
    I can't find exact video, but I've seen some training videos where they YAK did fake bombing runs on bridges and factories in Russia and it looks very advanced.
    Here's promo from YAK
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B31plwTpFK8
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    medo

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  medo on Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:42 am



    True, Yak-130 could be very useful jet in Syria. On the photo we could see Yak-130 armed fith 4 KAB-500Kr TV guided bombs. It is equipped with satelitte navigation and modern FCS computer, so it could use classical bombs with high precision as well. I don't know, if basic Yak-130 trainer is equipped with data link. I know, that upgraded Yak-130 got data link and SOLT-25 in the nose and this version would be even more useful in Syria. Maybe RuAF should upgrade few Yak-130 with SOLT-25 and data link and send them in Syria to test them and compare with Su-25.
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    medo

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  medo on Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:47 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:Agreed but still you would think due to increased interest in equipment being used in Syria that Russia would use other equipment to get countries interested in it also. The yak wouldn't take much to adapt to combat role. I think yak -130 would be doing better in sales if it made a combat missions in Syria. Mig-31BM  could be used for escort for Tu-160, Tu-95, Tu-22M,  freeing up the Su-30 & Su-35, and it would be good experience for pilots etc.

    I think Russia doesn't want to escalate situation in Syria too much as MiG-31BM could not be used against terrorists on the ground like Su-30SM or Su-35, but could be seen only as a treat to USAF. I think they will rather increase the number of Su-30SM and Su-35 that send MiG-31BM there.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:58 am

    I highly agree with above suggestion. Then Russia can sit back and watch the orders for the aircraft roll in especially African, South and central American countries and some Asian countries. And even some Syrian pilots could be trained to use them. Its very surprising that Mig-21 is still operating considering the amount of flying hours they have put in and age of the aircraft. Testament to soviet engineering

    As for the Mig-31BM Russia bringing them to Syria can easily be justified as like I said for escorting duties and protect airspace for Russian troops and assad government. I believe that the USA and Russia have resumed there flight safety agreement and at the end of the day Russian airforce has been invited into Syria unlike the coalition so Russia can what it wants. Russia has the right to protect its forces and aircraft

    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:27 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:I highly agree with above suggestion. Then Russia can sit back and watch the orders for the aircraft roll in especially African, South and central American countries and some Asian countries. And even some Syrian pilots could be trained to use them. Its very surprising that Mig-21 is still operating considering the amount of flying hours they have put in and age of the aircraft. Testament to soviet engineering

    As for the Mig-31BM Russia bringing them to Syria can easily be justified as like I said for escorting duties and protect airspace for Russian troops and assad government. I believe that the USA and Russia have resumed there flight safety agreement and at the end of the day Russian airforce has been invited into Syria unlike the coalition so Russia can what it wants. Russia has the right to protect its forces and aircraft
    No point in using the Mig-31 in Syria. It is an end of an era plane and their remaining flight hours are much too valuable protecting Russia to waste in Syria. It is nor that there is any export customer, the only two countries that could use it are probably Canada and Australia so forget that even if more were made.

    Whilst the Mig-21's service is pretty outstanding it is possible that similar vintage Western aircraft would still be in service were it not for the 'replace to get the profit' mentality of western MICs. Think Super Etendard, F-5 and A-4 Skyhawk many of which are being deliberately killed off.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  ult on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:38 am

    Su-27SM bombload...







    Last edited by ult on Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:44 am

    Agreed that the Mig -31BM has no real export customers only country possibly would be Algeria replacing it's mig-25 but even that would probably only be around 12 aircraft. But it's more for pilot experience.

    The amount of sorties the Mig -21 has performed under combat conditions is incredible. You mention western aircraft in a comparison but I disagree because even if western airforce had these still in service no western aircraft have been pushed to the lengths the Mig -21 have done in Syria. No western country would face a 6 year long war on its own soil with sanctions against it and proxy war with many terrorists funded by rich countries and providin training weapons Intel and a large group of developed countries formed into coalition against it. With only two countries helping it.

    I also wondered if Russia still had stock of Mig-21 parts and anyone still trained on maintenance etc to help support Syrian mig-21 but I am guessing it would be slim.
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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:39 pm

    Right out of the box! First time we have knowingly seen 9K333 "Verba" Russia latest MANPAD in Syria

    par far

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  par far on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:34 am

    calm wrote:Right out of the box!  First time we have knowingly seen 9K333 "Verba" Russia latest MANPAD in Syria



    Why do they need those for? Just testing?
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    medo

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  medo on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:46 am

    par far wrote:
    calm wrote:Right out of the box!  First time we have knowingly seen 9K333 "Verba" Russia latest MANPAD in Syria



    Why do they need those for? Just testing?

    Real combat testing of Verba MANPAD against small drones with very small radar and IR signature.
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    medo

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  medo on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:50 am

    ult wrote:Su-27SM bombload...






    Excellent video. I wonder if this precision strike is done by this Su-27SM3 with unguided bomb? If yes, than it is very precise. But there is still a possibility, that this was done by guided bomb. Anyway bombload of Su-27SM3 looks great. 30 bombs, most probably FAB-100 under 5 hardpoints. With such precision 30 bombs mean 30 targets.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:41 pm

    Tonight, the Russian calculations of the latest portable air defense missile system "Verba" destroyed the hijackers of the terrorists "Hayat Tahrir ash Sham" ("Jebhat An-Nusra" *), which was used to correct the fire of militants in Damascus, including the block with the Russian embassy.

    Recall that in order to ensure security and compliance with the ceasefire in the zone of de-escalation in the area of ​​East Huti since July 24, 2 checkpoints and 4 observation posts were exhibited. Military officers of the Russian Federation military police with specially trained units of government forces of the Syrian Arab Republic are on duty at these posts.

    In addition, to ensure security and prevent provocation using unmanned aerial vehicles, which are often used by the fighters "Hayat Tahrir Al-Sham", since August 2, over East Guta, a no-fly zone has been declared for all types of aircraft regardless of their belonging. At the same time, calculations of the latest systems of MANPADS "Verba" were deployed at the two checkpoints and put on alert duty.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2768365.html



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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:53 pm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:00 am

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:07 am

    Thing is the Yak-130 doesn't have the pilot protection the SU-25 does which is a major requirement for a CAS.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:14 pm

    The yak -130 isn't intended as CAS but a light multi role. And could easily launch/attack enemy targets outside of anti air guns and manpad
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  eehnie on Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:40 pm

    Russia needs the current production of Yak-130 to replace their own L-39.

    For Russia it makes not sense to send Yak-130 to Syria, because it means a delay in their own procurement, and a need to keep longer time the L-39. It makes a lot more sense for Russia to send their old L-39 to Syria at the rythm of the replacement by Yak-130 in the own fleet. It is a well known aircraft in Syria and has also an application as Fighter Ground Attack.

    It is very likely to see important numbers of Russian L-39 coming to Syria to help restoring the Syrian Air Force.

    Also the Be-12 would be useful for Syria.
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    medo

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  medo on Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:22 pm

    eehnie wrote:Russia needs the current production of Yak-130 to replace their own L-39.

    For Russia it makes not sense to send Yak-130 to Syria, because it means a delay in their own procurement, and a need to keep longer time the L-39. It makes a lot more sense for Russia to send their old L-39 to Syria at the rythm of the replacement by Yak-130 in the own fleet. It is a well known aircraft in Syria and has also an application as Fighter Ground Attack.

    It is very likely to see important numbers of Russian L-39 coming to Syria to help restoring the Syrian Air Force.

    Also the Be-12 would be useful for Syria.

    No, Yak-130 is not replaceing L-39, but is further step from L-39 to modern multirole jets. Also, they still need L-39 between Yak-52 and Yak-130. Next year RuAF academies will start receiving SR-10 jet trainers, which will actually replace L-39. For restoration of Syrian AF after war, it will be better to buy new build SR-10 trainers than old L-39. Don't forget that RuAF have old basic trainer L-39C and not light attack trainers L-39ZO or L-39ZA, which Syrian AF have. L-39C are really old now and they don't have much flying hours left. Maybe they could give them for spare parts.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:31 pm

    If I am correct the Russians use L-39C which wasn't really used for dedicated ground attack I think only the ZA and ZO and few more modern models had a decent capability and most are way past their life. The sole 2 reasons to field a few yak -130 is to combat test it and to show case it to potential buyers Russia won't be selling its L-39 it uses ones in not so good shape for target testing and unmanned aircraft tests. L-39 in Syrian airforce is being used out of necessity not because it's ideal it's used in strafing runs using gun pods and rocket pods it has no armour and a lot slower than other aircraft in service in Syria. At least yak -130 can attack targets out of enemy reach
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:34 pm

    Sorry I was typing this on my mobile while you must have posted but in my post it backs up what you stated

    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:41 pm

    Aldin @aldin_ww 1h1 hour ago

    #Russia AF Mi-28UB to be sent to Syria for a testing purposes.
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    medo

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  medo on Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:56 am

    calm wrote:

    What a contrast. Italy build monuments to Russian soldiers, while Poland and some other eastern states are destroying them.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  eehnie on Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:26 am

    medo wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Russia needs the current production of Yak-130 to replace their own L-39.

    For Russia it makes not sense to send Yak-130 to Syria, because it means a delay in their own procurement, and a need to keep longer time the L-39. It makes a lot more sense for Russia to send their old L-39 to Syria at the rythm of the replacement by Yak-130 in the own fleet. It is a well known aircraft in Syria and has also an application as Fighter Ground Attack.

    It is very likely to see important numbers of Russian L-39 coming to Syria to help restoring the Syrian Air Force.

    Also the Be-12 would be useful for Syria.

    No, Yak-130 is not replaceing L-39, but is further step from L-39 to modern multirole jets. Also, they still need L-39 between Yak-52 and Yak-130. Next year RuAF academies will start receiving SR-10 jet trainers, which will actually replace L-39. For restoration of Syrian AF after war, it will be better to buy new build SR-10 trainers than old L-39. Don't forget that RuAF have old basic trainer L-39C and not light attack trainers L-39ZO or L-39ZA, which Syrian AF have. L-39C are really old now and they don't have much flying hours left. Maybe they could give them for spare parts.

    I saw not news about the adoption or about orders of this aircraft (that lost at the time the contest for basic trainer vs the Yak-152). Do you have some link to official statements? (something above of the logical self promotion of the company that produces the SR-10)

    Waiting to some link, my view about it is different, from what I saw until now. At the time of the call for the constests for new trainer aircrafts, the model of the future Russian pilot training system was exposed, and it was clearly divided in 2 phases, with one future basic trainer (winner Yak-152) and one future advanced trainer (winner Yak-130).

    Today, the introduction of the Yak-130 started, but has not been completed. In order to make not differences between the trainer program of every student the advanced phase of the training is divided between the L-39 and the Yak-130, with the L-39 used before because is smaller and less powerful. But it means not a change in the plan of the initial 2 training phases.

    And in 2018 or 2019, when the procurement of the Yak-152 be enough, also the basic phase of the training progran will be likely divided by the same way between the Yak-52 and the Yak-152. And neither it will mean a new phase in the training program of the future Russian pilots, despite to train in 4 different aircrafts during some years.

    But, even if you would be right, something that I doubt seriously, the procurement of Yak-130 to Syria would also delay the procurement of Yak-130 to Russia. The current order of aircrafts has not been completed, it means Russia finnished not still its own procurement. New Yak-130 and Yak-152 will come to the Russian training schools. It will mean likely a reduction of the oldest aircrafts. The Yak-52 has not value for combat operations. but what better to do for Russia with the exceeding L-39s?


    Last edited by eehnie on Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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