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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

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    mnrck

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  mnrck on Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:16 pm

    There are six missiles for four targets?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:34 pm


    VOLUME WARNING!!! Exclamation

    Drone footage of Kalibr launch

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:51 pm

    From a couple of hours ago.

    The Spectator Index‏ @spectatorindex

    BREAKING: US-led coalition official says air incident prevention hotline between the US and Russia in Syria has been reactivated

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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:20 pm

    mnrck wrote:

    There are six missiles for four targets?

    No, video shows just 4 missiles hitting 4 targets.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  franco on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:25 pm

    calm wrote:
    mnrck wrote:

    There are six missiles for four targets?

    No, video shows just 4 missiles hitting 4 targets.

    There are reports that 6 missiles were launched by the Navy.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:44 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:New round of presents for the beardies.
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    C'mon man, we are not supposed to post explicit pornography here, kids might be watching!!!  lol1
    I'm sorry I couldn't help it. Go ahead and ban me mods, it was worth it. lol1 russia

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:16 am

    JohninMK wrote: From a couple of hours ago.

    The Spectator Index‏ @spectatorindex

    BREAKING: US-led coalition official says air incident prevention hotline between the US and Russia in Syria has been reactivated


    None of that information have been said by Russian government.
    Only when confirmed will be truth. US military likes to play tricks from
    time to time. It will not make sense Russia restoring any hotline ,when Americans
    continues to shot down drones and planes of Syria.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  eehnie on Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:49 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote: From a couple of hours ago.

    The Spectator Index‏ @spectatorindex

    BREAKING: US-led coalition official says air incident prevention hotline between the US and Russia in Syria has been reactivated


    None of that information have been said by Russian government.
    Only when confirmed will be truth. US military likes to play tricks from
    time to time. It will not make sense Russia restoring any hotline ,when Americans
    continues to shot down drones and planes of Syria.

    Is only intoxication.

    mnrck

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  mnrck on Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:12 pm

    franco wrote:
    calm wrote:
    mnrck wrote:

    There are six missiles for four targets?

    No, video shows just 4 missiles hitting 4 targets.

    There are reports that 6 missiles were launched by the Navy.
    So the others must be hitting elsewhere. Or not.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:35 pm

    mnrck wrote:
    franco wrote:
    calm wrote:
    mnrck wrote:

    There are six missiles for four targets?

    No, video shows just 4 missiles hitting 4 targets.

    There are reports that 6 missiles were launched by the Navy.
    So the others must be hitting elsewhere. Or not.

    Footage wasn't published that is all

    What you see in these videos is taken from observation drones, not targeting cameras

    There were probably no observation drones on other sites

    Russian military never publishes material from targeting cameras (helicopters being exception)
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    BKP

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  BKP on Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:49 am

    Well, this is a bit, uh, debatable, I'd say. Courtesy J. Bezos and the CIA, aka: Business Insider

    Here's how an air war between Russia and the US in Syria would go down

    Alex Lockie
    Jun. 23, 2017, 3:07 PM

    After the US downed a Syrian jet making a bombing run on US-backed forces fighting ISIS,Russia threatened to target US and US-led coalition planes West of the Euphrates river in Syria.

    But while Russia has some advanced surface-to-air missile systems and very agile fighter aircraft in Syria, it wouldn't fare well in what would be a short, brutal air war against the US.
    The US keeps an aircraft carrierwith dozens of F/A-18E fighters aboard in the Mediterranean about all the time and hundreds of F-15s and F-16s scattered around Turkey, Qatar, and Jordan.

    According to Omar Lamrani, a senior military analyst at Stratfor, a geopolitical analysis firm, Russia has "about 25 planes, only about ten of which are dedicated to air superiority (Su-35s and Su-30s), and against that they’ll have to face fifth-gen stealth fighters, dozens of strike fighters, F-15s, F-16s, as well as B-1 and B-52 bombers. And of course the vast US Navy and pretty much hundreds of Tomahawks."
    "Russians have a lot of air defenses, they’re not exactly defenseless by any means," Lamrani told Business Insider, "But the US has very heavy air superiority." Even though individual Russian platforms come close to matching, and in some ways exceed the capability of US jets, it comes down to numbers.

    So if Russia did follow through with its threat, and target a US aircraft that did not back down West of the Euphrates in Syria, and somehow managed to shoot it down, then what?
    "The US coalition is very cautious," said Lamrani. "The whole US coalition is  on edge for any moves from Russia at this point."

    Russia has great air-to-air fighters that could give US jets lots of problems, but not many of them.

    Lamrani also said that while F/A-18Es are more visible and doing most of the work, the US keeps a buffer of F-22 stealth jets between its forces and Russia's. If Russia did somehow manage to shoot down a US or US-led coalition plane, a US stealth jet would probably return fire before it ever reached the base.

    At that point the Russians would have a moment to think very critically if they wanted to engage with the full might of the US Air Force after the eye-for-an-eye shoot downs.
    If US surveillance detected a mass mobilization of Russian jets in response to the back-and-forth, the US wouldn't just wait politely for Russians to get their planes in the sky so they can fight back.

    Instead, a giant salvo of cruise missiles would pour in from the USS George H. W. Bush carrier strike group, much like the April 7 strike on Syria's Sharyat air base. But this time, the missiles would have to saturate and defeat Russia's missile defenses first, which they could do by sheer numbers if not using electronic attack craft.

    Then, after neutering Russia's defenses, the ships could target the air base, not only destroying planes on the ground but also tearing up the runways, so no planes could take off. At this point US and Coalition aircraft would have free reign to pass overhead and completely devastate Russian forces.

    Russia would likely manage to score a couple intercepts and even shoot down some US assets, but overall the Russian contingent in Syria cannot stand up to the US, let alone the entire coalition of nations fighting ISIS.
    Russia also has a strong Navy that could target US air bases in the region, but that would require Russia to fire on Turkey, Jordan, and Qatar, which would be politically and technically difficult for them.

    This scenario of a hypothetical air war is exceedingly unlikely. Russia knows the numbers are against them and it would "not [be] so easy for the Russians to decide to shoot down a US aircraft," according to Lamrani.

    And Russia wouldn't risk so much over Syria, which is not an existential defense interest for them, but a foreign adventure to distract from Russia's stalled economy and social problems, according to Anna Borshchevskaya, an expert on Russia’s foreign policy in the Middle East at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

    "Russia is not a great power by most measures, like GDP, population, living standard," Borshchevskaya told Business Insider. "Russia has steadily declined. It’s still a nuclear power, but not world power."

    In Syria, "a lot of what Putin is doing is about domestic policies," said Borshchevskaya, and to have many Russian servicemen killed in a battle with a US-led coalition fighting ISIS wouldn't serve his purposes domestically or abroad.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/us-russia-air-war-syria-2017-6


    Last edited by BKP on Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Skandalwitwe

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Skandalwitwe on Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:11 am

    ^Rolling Eyes

    It's hard to bear reading such arrogant and self-delusional nonsense. Those jerks obvoiusly never heard of Russia's EW capabilities which are 'eye-watering' acoording to high-brass Gen. Ben Hodges. They also seem to have endless confidence in that 'stealth' myth created for the gullible masses. Or Russia's great diversity of fearsome anti-ship missiles...and you can continuefurther. Of course the few Russian AD assets currently present (the few decent Syrian ones too) can be overwhelmed with sheer numbers along with the small Air Force detachment - but how would that look like after loosing a possibly unbearable amount of their own junk?

    Seriously I believe we in the west need a good endless repeated bitch-slap in our stupid faces. That unjustified sense of superiority needs a major adjustment and Syria could be the place.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:57 pm

    Russia does not need to shoot down US aircraft, it could simply force them out of Syrian airspace... if they refuse they can then threaten to attack various US targets around the world... BTW still not sure how the US would take down an S-400 and S-300V system... they talk about outnumbering the Russian aircraft but what happens when the US fleet in the Med notice 30-40 Onyx missiles approaching at supersonic speed... is the US prepared to lose a whole carrier group just to defend their terrorists?

    There are plenty of US bases in the region that would be very vulnerable to cruise missile attack too...

    Arrogant and over confident are the main features of the current US administration... and they are in charge of the US forces.

    Will Turkey help the US?


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:48 pm

    BKP wrote:Well, this is a bit, uh, debatable, I'd say. Courtesy J. Bezos and the CIA, aka: Business Insider
    ..................


    Buddy just post a link next time for any WaPo/Business Insider/Tyler Rogoway releted crap

    We all know exactly what they write and there's no need to post the whole thing here

    All their shit is nearly identical, they most likely have template
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  kvs on Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:08 pm

    Skandalwitwe wrote:^Rolling Eyes

    It's hard to bear reading such arrogant and self-delusional nonsense. Those jerks obvoiusly never heard of Russia's EW capabilities which are 'eye-watering' acoording to high-brass Gen. Ben Hodges. They also seem to have endless confidence in that 'stealth' myth created for the gullible masses. Or Russia's great diversity of fearsome anti-ship missiles...and you can continuefurther. Of course the few Russian AD assets currently present (the few decent Syrian ones too) can be overwhelmed with sheer numbers along with the small Air Force detachment - but how would that look like after loosing a possibly unbearable amount of their own junk?

    Seriously I believe we in the west need a good endless repeated bitch-slap in our stupid faces. That unjustified sense of superiority needs a major adjustment and Syria could be the place.

    The problem is that they drink their own koolaid and really believe that Russia is like some 3rd world push over. This makes the US and NATO extremely
    dangerous and you see this in Killary's BS plans to "put Russia in its place in Syria". The best solution for that is to do what Russia is doing Syria: messing
    up NATO plans on a large scale and demonstrating the weapons and capacity to do it. At least then there is some information flow which undermines NATO
    delusions. The generals that Killary was going to use to put Russia in its place don't seem all that cocky given the response to the suspension of the deconfliction
    hotline.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:20 pm

    They mention Russia's stalled economy and social problems.

    What easily discredits the article is such nonsense. I mean, what social problems? So far, the country is far more stable than western nations like US. Add to that, the economy is growing this year, so what exactly has been "stalled"?

    If they try to even use Navalny 2% as a social instability in the country, I would laugh my ass off.

    As for economics, it is economics of scale. Russian goods are cheaper than they are in the west, thus cost for production is lower, meaning generally Russians get paid accordingly. Add in public medical care and public university and it makes the US system seem far more costly than what the average American makes.

    Then again, all of this debate is worthless. Such articles are only written for their own people, not Russians. Although I doubt their own people even believe it seeing as western msm is lowest in its history in viewers and faith in their reliability.
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    BKP

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  BKP on Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:40 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Buddy just post a link next time for any WaPo/Business Insider/Tyler Rogoway releted crap

    We all know exactly what they write and there's no need to post the whole thing here

    All their shit is nearly identical, they most likely have template

    Yes, ordinarily I would agree with that. But this is something new, or, at least, I haven't personally seen anything like it yet. So, I thought it noteworthy enough in that regard to post it in full.

    As what kvs' post hints at, It makes one wonder who this is aimed at and for what purpose. Is this part of the attempt to psychologically prep the American people for war against Russia? How often in the past have simplified and erroneous military assessments been used to convince a domestic population that war will be easy? Well, a lot.  

    Hopefully there are more sober minds in positions of actual control who see this for what it is. As a starting point they can remember how many planes the US lost over Iraq, a country with incomparably lesser capability than Russia.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:51 pm

    From the amateurs report.. above..



    Then, after neutering Russia's defenses, the ships could target the air base, not only destroying planes on the ground but also tearing up the runways, so no planes could take off. At this point US and Coalition aircraft would have free reign to pass overhead and completely devastate Russian forces.



    Bombing Russia military base? lol1

    If they do that. it will be green light for Russia to strike ANYTHING!!!!!!!
    and that means ANYTHING will be valid. If americans becomes so fools to think their air superiority numbers in the region ,will be able to force Russia to capitulate and abandon Syria
    they are so dead wrong..

    First the Amazon expert? completely ignore something called Public Opinion , and International opinion and People support. If Donald Trump orders the bombing of Russia military base..
    even if Russia shut down their hostile planes invading Syria illegally. it will be a dead sentence
    for his seat..

    Because if American Pentagon become so fool to attack Russia military base which they can do
    if wants to commit suicide ,and kill hundreds of Russian soldiers? Shocked

    Then this will be officially a World War 3. and Russia will have a Justification for sinking all Americans aircraft carriers or warships in the mediterranean sea? So what will the "Amazon experts" will do if Russia defend itself , after US attack its military base , and Russia manage to sink their aircraft carrier and several warships?

    Russia retaliations can also be to attack Romania nato base in retaliation.. with a tactical nuke.
    Because again here is Tit for tat.. Americans kills Russian soldiers overwhelming their defense..
    yes thats possible.. But Russia retaliation will make it way way way way way more expensive for Americans . Because Russia will start hitting the top military hardware of americans. ie..
    Sink nuclear submarines , warships .aircraft carriers near Syria.

    So americans will have to take a deep breath and take a decision if they want to go with Russia to a full scale nuclear war ,risking their own nation existence in a Russian relation. So will American crazies will risk a full scale war with Russia in defend of ISIS and Alqaeda?

    Highly unlikely.
    What will happen after ..
    after a major escalation with hundreds of Russians killed in a act of war ,and then later Russia retaliate and kill hundreds of sailors in a aircraft carrier.. then you will see..

    1) A major civil war with United States ,90% of population demanding Impeachment of Trump and MATIS.. with jews and muslims radicals being the only ones supporting Trump. who cares nothing about US being destroyed.
    2)Russian ciitizens fully united 98% of them behind their President.
    3) then a major world wide emergency meeting at united nations ..demanding United states to Abandon Syria ,blaming them for the escalation of the conflict and for supporting terrorism..
    4) Russia will be seen as the only legitimate force in Syria and NATO will be demanded to abandon Syria...

    This is why is extremely Important for Russia to get world public opinion on their side.
    Because this is what will make the BIG difference ,between containment of a military confrontation between US and Russia..

    And while US and Russia start emergency meetings at UN ,for ending their limited war..

    Russia will start using tactical nukes in all the Rebels zones that US and NATO Controls.. sending a message to NATO that Russia is ready to escalate with the use of Nuclear weapons.

    So what could happen after Americans start a very dangerous limited direct war with Russia.killing hundreds of soldiers? because they can do it ,if use all its airforces and commit suicide?

    -Americans will lose all aircraft carriers and warships near Syria used to attack Russia.
    -Russian might end losing the military base and a couple of warships.. or maybe not since Russia electronic warfare is superior and americans cruise missiles very weak.
    -A major civil war in American ,of hundreds of millions , that will destroy US economy and crash the dollar ,demanding the impeachment of Trump.
    -Russian citizens 99% of them fully united with Russia.. no civil war.
    -Syria recovering 100% of its territory in just a day , after Russia start using tactical nukes on
    ISIS and ALqaeda and all NATO backed terrorist.
    and probably depending on the continuation of the scalation ,that Americans continues attacking Russia. All military bases of Americans near Russia destroyed with Aegis.
    -Major defections from the Pentagon and US military.

    and the most devastating thing of all..
    - United States isolated from the world. No one supporting their actions in Syria. the international pressure will be so high that Washington DC ,will be unable to hold power for longer if continue their illegal war on Syria and Russia.

    This is why im saying is far ,far more important public Opinion ,than a million man standing army. or a hundreds of warships. Because if You have a public opinion overwhelmingly in your favor ,then Russian citizens will overwhelmingly unite behind the President.  But if a Government have overwhelmingly negative support from Society.. then it will be like Egypt revolution or like Ukraine revolution,or a major defections from the military.

    A civil armed war , against a government can cause far more destruction in a country . than a nuclear submarine throwing all its nukes on that nation. because it will cover every single building and city of United States. then to restore order will be IMPOSIBLE. and the the white house will need to start a war against its own citizens.  Cool

    So the Amazon experts show us , US airplane numbers.. but Russia will show americans, here is ,you got a wonderful armed civil war nation wide that you will NOT recover. and with thousands of defenctions from the US army ,navy , and airforce. because they all know their country started the war with Russia ,and their government is supporting ISIS and Alqaeda to over run an entire nation.  So Russia don't need to destroy all American planes or warships. to win. it not even needs to use nukes on US territory.. all that Russia needs to do is provoke
    a Full scale civil war ,nation wide. demanding the entire government to step down.
    And americans will go to the streets at the moment they see they illegally provoked Russia into a war and the military ended with a broken nose.  

    It was Public Opinion ,with massive public protest what ended the Vietnam war . the Syrian war will be stopped by Public Unrest or by TRump stopping it ,that he will like to do it. but have hands tied. to do.

    So all things said. Even when there is an increase in violence and hostilities by Americans against Syria. it was still better Trump than CLinton. Because Trump feels respect for Russia and Putin.. while Clinton is a maniac women ,that you can't talk , and will have been impossible
    to deescalate a war once it start.

    So NATO is only testing Russia , tried to break their will in Syria. But if a major military confrontation start.. between US and RUssia. with planes shotdown from both sides.
    i have no doubts , Trump will be able to stop it ,and finally TRump convince the Pentagon that a continuation of the war in Syria will only mean a full scale war with Russia and that is not worth of it. in the end Putin will win. and Americans will end with a broken nose in Syria. They will have to retreat because they don't have any support from the American population to help ISIS or Alqaeda , or to start a war with Syria and Russia ,when Russia is defending a legitimate nation and Americans are only defending Saudi Arabia backed terrorist.

    Russia have the world public opinion in Syria and not even Trump is very enthusiastic about Pentagon alliance with ISIS.So Putin do have big chance to prevail in Syria if hold positions.and continue advancing. and americans will need to sooner or later leave Syria or else face major
    civil unrest.

    United States Huge Problem in Syria .is that it cant justify its actions..
    because...
    1)IS violating International laws.
    2) Is violating US constitution ,of aggression on a sovereign nation Syria that
    have not attacked United States.
    3)IT can't justify starting a world war 3 in Syria in support of terrorism.

    So Trump will have to retreat ,or else , he risk a full scale civil war nation wide with riots in every single city after Russia sink an aircraft carrier in self defense, that will destroy the nation economy. Cool

    So from one point of view. If Pentagon listens ,what the Amazon "Experts" says. It will only
    accelerate the liberation of Syria .because NATO can't stop Russia from nuking their backed
    terrorist and neither can justify a war on Russia if Russia is bombing what all its population see as terrorist. US can't justify a world war 3 with Russia, in defend of muslim terrorist ,that american citizens care no shit about them. and if American soldiers die. it will be their fault for
    helping terrorist. That will be the average thinking of every American citizen. Cool

    But for all this to happen.. Russia needs to be very proffessional in all they do ,never sound hostile against Americans. and continue destroying US image in Syria of what they doing there.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Regular on Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:51 pm

    Fact still stands- numbers are not on russian side. But now it comes to who has more sense
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    BKP

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  BKP on Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:14 pm

    ^ Yes, but as others have basically said, to look at it that way is to hew to an artificially constrained view. If this thing goes full-blown, all those launching areas from which the US/NATO numerical advantage would arise would themselves come under Russian missile attack--airfields, carriers, whatever. And US/NATO capability in AD isn't as advanced as Russia's. Carriers are sitting ducks. The author of that article assumes Russia wouldn't dare attack airfields in Turkey or the GCCs. Lol, why not? If planes and/or missiles are being prepped there to attack the Russian force in Syria, I would assume the opposite to be true.

    Anyhow, I'm not even predicting an outcome, except to say it would get dire pretty fast. And it wouldn't be any kind of cakewalk for US/NATO.


    Last edited by BKP on Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:22 pm

    [quote="Vann7"]From the amateurs report.. above..



    Then, after neutering Russia's defenses, the ships could target the air base, not only destroying planes on the ground but also tearing up the runways, so no planes could take off. At this point US and Coalition aircraft would have free reign to pass overhead and completely devastate Russian forces.



    Bombing Russia military base? lol1

    If they do that. it will be green light for Russia to strike ANYTHING!!!!!!!
    and that means ANYTHING will be valid. If americans becomes so fools to think their air superiority numbers in the region ,will be able to force Russia to capitulate and abandon Syria
    they are so dead wrong..

    First the Amazon expert? completely ignore something called Public Opinion , and International opinion and People support. If Donald Trump orders the bombing of Russia military base..
    even if Russia shut down their hostile planes invading Syria illegally. it will be a dead sentence
    for his seat..

    Because if American Pentagon become so fool to attack Russia military base which they can do
    if wants to commit suicide ,and kill hundreds of Russian soldiers? Shocked

    Then this will be officially a World War 3. and Russia will have a Justification for sinking all Americans aircraft carriers or warships in the mediterranean sea? So what will the "Amazon experts" will do if Russia defend itself , after US attack its military base , and Russia manage to sink their aircraft carrier and several warships?

    Russia retaliations can also be to attack Romania nato base in retaliation.. with a tactical nuke.
    Because again here is Tit for tat.. Americans kills Russian soldiers overwhelming their defense..
    yes thats possible.. But Russia retaliation will make it way way way way way more expensive for Americans . Because Russia will start hitting the top military hardware of americans. ie..
    Sink nuclear submarines , warships .aircraft carriers near Syria.

    So americans will have to take a deep breath and take a decision if they want to go with Russia to a full scale nuclear war ,risking their own nation existence in a Russian relation. So will American crazies will risk a full scale war with Russia in defend of ISIS and Alqaeda?

    Highly unlikely.
    What will happen after ..
    after a major escalation with hundreds of Russians killed in a act of war ,and then later Russia retaliate and kill hundreds of sailors in a aircraft carrier.. then you will see..

    1) A major civil war with United States ,90% of population demanding Impeachment of Trump and MATIS.. with jews and muslims radicals being the only ones supporting Trump. who cares nothing about US being destroyed.
    2)Russian ciitizens fully united 98% of them behind their President.
    3) then a major world wide emergency meeting at united nations ..demanding United states to Abandon Syria ,blaming them for the escalation of the conflict and for supporting terrorism..
    4) Russia will be seen as the only legitimate force in Syria and NATO will be demanded to abandon Syria...

    This is why is extremely Important for Russia to get world public opinion on their side.
    Because this is what will make the BIG difference ,between containment of a military confrontation between US and Russia..

    And while US and Russia start emergency meetings at UN ,for ending their limited war..

    Russia will start using tactical nukes in all the Rebels zones that US and NATO Controls.. sending a message to NATO that Russia is ready to escalate with the use of Nuclear weapons.

    So what could happen after Americans start a very dangerous limited direct war with Russia.killing hundreds of soldiers? because they can do it ,if use all its airforces and commit suicide?

    -Americans will lose all aircraft carriers and warships near Syria used to attack Russia.
    -Russian might end losing the military base and a couple of warships.. or maybe not since Russia electronic warfare is superior and americans cruise missiles very weak.
    -A major civil war in American ,of hundreds of millions , that will destroy US economy and crash the dollar ,demanding the impeachment of Trump.
    -Russian citizens 99% of them fully united with Russia.. no civil war.
    -Syria recovering 100% of its territory in just a day , after Russia start using tactical nukes on
    ISIS and ALqaeda and all NATO backed terrorist.
    and probably depending on the continuation of the scalation ,that Americans continues attacking Russia. All military bases of Americans near Russia destroyed with Aegis.
    -Major defections from the Pentagon and US military.

    and the most devastating thing of all..
    - United States isolated from the world. No one supporting their actions in Syria. the international pressure will be so high that Washington DC ,will be unable to hold power for longer if continue their illegal war on Syria and Russia.

    This is why im saying is far ,far more important public Opinion ,than a million man standing army. or a hundreds of warships. Because if You have a public opinion overwhelmingly in your favor ,then Russian citizens will overwhelmingly unite behind the President.  But if a Government have overwhelmingly negative support from Society.. then it will be like Egypt revolution or like Ukraine revolution,or a major defections from the military.

    A civil armed war , against a government can cause far more destruction in a country . than a nuclear submarine throwing all its nukes on that nation. because it will cover every single building and city of United States. then to restore order will be IMPOSIBLE. and the the white house will need to start a war against its own citizens.  Cool

    So the Amazon experts show us , US airplane numbers.. but Russia will show americans, here is ,you got a wonderful armed civil war nation wide that you will NOT recover. and with thousands of defenctions from the US army ,navy , and airforce. because they all know their country started the war with Russia ,and their government is supporting ISIS and Alqaeda to over run an entire nation.  So Russia don't need to destroy all American planes or warships. to win. it not even needs to use nukes on US territory.. all that Russia needs to do is provoke
    a Full scale civil war ,nation wide. demanding the entire government to step down.
    And americans will go to the streets at the moment they see they illegally provoked Russia into a war and the military ended with a broken nose.  

    It was Public Opinion ,with massive public protest what ended the Vietnam war . the Syrian war will be stopped by Public Unrest or by TRump stopping it ,that he will like to do it. but have hands tied. to do.

    So all things said. Even when there is an increase in violence and hostilities by Americans against Syria. it was still better Trump than CLinton. Because Trump feels respect for Russia and Putin.. while Clinton is a maniac women ,that you can't talk , and will have been impossible
    to deescalate a war once it start.

    So NATO is only testing Russia , tried to break their will in Syria. But if a major military confrontation start.. between US and RUssia. with planes shotdown from both sides.
    i have no doubts , Trump will be able to stop it ,and finally TRump convince the Pentagon that a continuation of the war in Syria will only mean a full scale war with Russia and that is not worth of it. in the end Putin will win. and Americans will end with a broken nose in Syria. They will have to retreat because they don't have any support from the American population to help ISIS or Alqaeda , or to start a war with Syria and Russia ,when Russia is defending a legitimate nation and Americans are only defending Saudi Arabia backed terrorist.

    Russia have the world public opinion in Syria and not even Trump is very enthusiastic about Pentagon alliance with ISIS.So Putin do have big chance to prevail in Syria if hold positions.and continue advancing. and americans will need to sooner or later leave Syria or else face major
    civil unrest.

    United States Huge Problem in Syria .is that it cant justify its actions..
    because...
    1)IS violating International laws.
    2) Is violating US constitution ,of aggression on a sovereign nation  Syria that
    have not attacked United States.
    3)IT can't justify starting a world war 3 in Syria in support of terrorism.

    So Trump will have to retreat ,or else , he risk a full scale civil war nation wide with riots in every single city after Russia sink an aircraft carrier in self defense, that will destroy the nation economy. Cool

    So from one point of view. If Pentagon listens ,what the Amazon "Experts" says. It will only
    accelerate the liberation of Syria .because NATO can't stop Russia from nuking their backed
    terrorist and neither can justify a war on Russia if Russia is bombing what all its population see as terrorist. US can't justify a world war 3 with Russia, in defend of muslim terrorist ,that american citizens care no shit about them. and if American soldiers die. it will be their fault for
    helping terrorist. That will be the average thinking of every American citizen. Cool

    But for all this to happen.. Russia needs to be very proffessional in all they do ,never sound hostile against Americans. and continue destroying US image in Syria of what they doing there.



    Fact still stands- numbers are not on russian side. But now it comes to who has more sense


    It will be irrelevant.. because planes alone can't win wars.. and if the US military bomb Russia military base killing civilians and serviceman hundreds of them. then Russia can sink American warships and aircraft carriers in the zone. And it will be US the blame for it. it will be a retaliation. When you think about it.. the Syrian war in reality is a war against Russia.
    Is not Assad or not even IRAN , Pentagon main target. But Russia.Americans don't care a shit
    about the muslins the defend in Syria. It just a tool they use to bleed Russia. and nothing else.
    With the intention to defeat their military and damage Russia image ,in the world.
    But the image of who will be destroyed? in reality?  until now is US image the one very low there.  Again the Syrian war is not a war for defeat of Russian army. or Russia federation.
    Is a war to destroy Russia image ,and bleed its military and economy.

    So if Americans ends with an aircraft carrier destroyed and several warships . and end with a
    full scale civil war?  and Putin ends with full nation unity? then who will be the loser? and who is the winner?  To measure victory based only ,on who lose more military hardware is infantile.

    If US ends with a civil war based on their actions in Syria ..and Russia not.. then it will be a big
    win for Russia.  Aside.. that the battlefield in Syria is one of the worse places in the world
    for Russia to fight. because if far from borders. and Russia can be over run .for being far from its mighty airforce ,army. etc. So is understood that if americans wanted to commit suicide.
    they could overun RUssia military base easily.  but the same will be truth . If NATO try to fight Russia in Crimea .or in Donetsk or in georgia ,it will be overwhelmed by Russia navy ,airforce and army. and the black sea will be closed.  So that NATO can overwhelm Russia in Syria ,
    when All Border nations are hostile to Syria and Russia have no supply lines? indeed they can.
    if Russia dont use nukes they can. But the same is true for Russia. if NATO seeks to fight Russia in the artic for example ,or Crimea or Georgia or the caspian sea. then it will be them the ones over run.  This is because nato major powers is not prepared to fight in those zones ,with over extended supply lines.

    So whenever you think about US vs Russia..war..
    you need to think about OBJECTIVES.. what are the real Goals..???
    NATO real goals in Syria is not Syria and not  even IRAN.. but Russia.
    And if they do not manage to Isolate Russia from Europe ,and EU continue buying natural gas from Russia and if NATO actions instead of demonizing Putin and provoking a civil war , do the opposite.. ???  and instead it is Americans that ends with the civil war? then who is the winner and who is the loser?  Putin goals is to defeat ISIS and discredit Americans. to divide American society and provoke a civil war.. and do it with the less casualties possible of its military.

    So isn't this things already happening? Putin major support and American elite divided?
    fighting each other.  Cool  Again How many combat jets ,here or there is meaningless.  If Russian 20 planes destroyed ,the will not send more ,BUT they will continue attacking from the caspian sea Americans. and causing them significanlt loses with warships destroyed. So in the end . is not numbers what matter but results. The Vietnam war is a perfect example of this. Americans won all the battles but lost the war.

    So all things said. is totally misleading and unfair to compare US and Russia military force,
    based on Syrian war.  Oh yeah.. Americans have dozens of nations allies next to Syria.. and Russia only IRAN .  A real comparison of which military individual force is stronger will be if Americans deploy all its military to Ukraine ,move all their tanks there. and try to invade
    Russia. Cool  And i guarrantee you , Americans will be wiped big time. Nukes or NOT.
    Russia military is way stronger than the american one. US force comes mostly from its large navy ,that is useless for land wars in Russia, and from its coalition of puppets.

    US deploy all its navy in crimea and will lose it all very fast. for concentrating its forces in that place. will be overwhelmed by Russian missile forces. and better protected airforce. So thats what is all about. This is why Ukraine will NEVER BE A NATO member. Not even if trump wanted it. it can't.. the Pentagon will not allow it. Why? Because Americans have no chance to defeat Russia fighting near its borders. Russia army will be unstoppable by NATO fighting on its main land.  This was clearly understood by Trump national security advisor. the man who makes Foreign Policy tactics for Pentagon ,in how to defeat Russia.

    he told. The US military have got it all wrong in the strategy about how to fight Russia.
    they have been focusing in how to get to the Russian door.. but not what to do next after that.
    In other words ,,focusing on its navy power but not on its Army power. how to advance once they step inside Russia territory? Cool  

    Russia have the most powerful army and airforce for territorial defense.
    and Americans have the most powerful navy and the most powerful projection too. and they compensate their weakness in missile forces and Army, with Europe that their armies are incredibly weak.  Germany only have like 200 tanks. france about the same. Russia have more artillery and missile forces than US and NATO combined.  Shocked

    And if NATO goes an invade Russia main land.. lets say aliens hihack their brains..
    Then Russia have the option to ask China help.. if there is a need for it.  Cool

    So to claim that US military is second to none in the world is false. In reality Russia is the most powerful army in the world and most powerful airforce for territorial defense. and Americans only advantage is deep waters navy and projection,drones and NATO ,that allows them to re-deploy their forces anywhere in the world. but once NATO arrive to Russian borders. but what they will do after they get to the door of Russia? mmmm,, Which foolish military force will dare to invade Russia with tanks?


    Syrian conflict is one when US have an advantage only thanks for its allies.. But if Turkey ,Jordan and ISrael were on the side of Russia. it will have been impossible for Americans to partition Syria. or even enter in any part of it. or train any rebel.. and this is what the Amazon "Experts" do not see. that The Power they attribute to Americans. is a collective force and not an individual one and is only based on politics limitations Russia have in the zone. That All countries at borders of Syria cooperate with Americans more.

    So this is why Ukraine can't be a NATO member. IMPOSSIBLE. Because if Russia attack
    Ukraine , then Poroshenko will activate the article of defense ,calling all other NATO nations
    to come in defense of Ukraine..to fight Evil Russia..  lol1

    I don't think any sane person in Europe will welcome to start a war with Russia right there
    at Russian borders. Not even McAin ,who is the most hater of Russia , he understand this well.
    He told it in a telephone leak conversation with a Russian prankster. that he told Ukraine possibilities to join NATO is small .and not possible for now. This is because Americans will not like to be in a defense trap. That if they don't help Ukraine. it will question the alliance purpose.
    and if they go and fight side by side Ukraine ,against Russia. it will be a major rape of their forces ,fighting Russia next to its borders. Russia is truly unstoppable today on its territory. even if All NATO combined invade Russia main land. Simply is not possible such a war. NATO will need to use hundreds of nuclear weapons to take down Russian air defenses. but this will be a totally different war. which will mean the total destruction of US by Russian nuclear forces.

    So to defeat Russia on its mainland, you need a hitler like numbers invasion. with many millions soldiers and learn to evade missiles and artillery falling on your head. is not even possible to imagine an strategy that could work for such a war.. lol1


    Russia can only be defeated when All its giant land captured. every inch of it. imagine what kind of army you need for that. Something never seen in history. and hope China
    does comes to Russia help. Smile

    So the American goals in Syria are in reality weakening Russia image in the world ,isolating it from Europe and forcing Russia to submit to NATO.. so good luck with that. Even if all Russian
    forces over run in Syria, they can continue hitting non stop american forces in Syria with their
    Longe Range bombers across IRAN. with meter accuracy. it will be incredibly expensive
    for americans to hold any inch of territory for long in Syria. No


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:13 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:31 pm

    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/270739-west-media-russia-collapse-war/

    The ending of the article is another great example of russophrenia. Yeah, Russia is not a world power, even though they're supposed to have their agent in the White House and they are very succesfully intervening and winning a conflict quite far away from their borders, overseas. At the same time that intervention is comparatively cheap.

    Come on. If that doesn't make Russia a major world power, more powerful than all the other countries except USA and China, then I don't know what does. Russia doesn't even border Syria, ffs. -.- But yeah, let me guess... She's simply looking at nominal GDP and military spending, which are extremely valid measurements when it comes to Russia at the moment. Not.

    RUSSIA HAS NOT STEADILY DECLINED VS THE WEST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SEE THAT BS. ITS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. COMPARE RUSSIA OF 2000 TO TODAY'S RUSSIA. RUSSIA IS ONE OF THE EMERGING COUNTRIES THAT IS CATCHING UP, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Is she comparing Russia to the Soviet Union? Well, in this case: don't, obviously. When it comes to living standards... Overall, Russia living standards are actually the 3rd highest among the countries that have a population of over 100 million. Russia is also the only BRICS country which has a Very High Human Development Index. So... uhh...

    Not having same kind of power projection capabilities and military bases around the world (in this case, in the Middle East) as the US does not make Russia weak. Russia is a land power. Even the Soviets didn't have those type of priorities, those type of capabilities. Does that mean that the USSR was not a great power? Does that mean China is not a great power? Jesus...

    How many of those russophobic cunts believed that Russia could directly and very effectively intervene in Syria before they actually did it? Yeah, thought so. So shut the fuck up.

    Of course, for geographical and logistical reasons numbers are not on Russia's side in the region. Everyone must realise that. But the whole scenario is ridiculous. The US and Russia don't want to fight against each other, period. The first half of the article isn't that bad, actually. Even then, Russia is not defenceless even in Syria, as the article points out, and Russia can hit US forces elsewhere, like in the Baltics.

    But yeah, that "distracting population away from the domestic problems" is such BS, and so obvious propaganda 101. You can do you better than that. The Syria operations effect on the population has been very modestly positive at best. Russians don't care that much about Syria, but of course, at the same time it has increased Russias prestige and the operations has not been costly. And I have to repeat: what social problems? What on earth is she talking about? Navalny?? Laughing Laughing Laughing Sums the Western MSMs Russia coverage and her "analysis" perfectly. Totally living in their own reality. Keep it up. Rolling Eyes


    Last edited by Kimppis on Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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    auslander

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  auslander on Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:10 pm

    You do understand the article you linked is two years old, 30.06.15?
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Isos on Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:05 pm

    Such scenario would allow Russia to attack any US base in europe, and the most important the Radars of the ABM in Poland and Romania.

    The counter attack would last 2 or 3 days.

    It's doubtfull that Turkey tries to help them. If US attack first that means no NATO help at least not from Turkey (which hates US today because of the coup d'etat) and most UE countries try to be independent ince Trump and won't follow US in a war with Russia. The fight would occure on their soil and the best way for them to survive would be to be neutral. Russia wouldn't attack them in such scenario because Russia want good relations with them.
    For the baltic states it would be different, it's a very easy target and they have lot of US facilities, troops. They would be probably taken and a pro russian gov would be put in power.


    BTW the article is total bullshit. They have maybe 2 F-22 out their and much less fighters than suggested. The thing is that their are lot of pro US countries in the same bases and the Americans still think they are their soldiers.

    The carrier is probably followed by a SSN and their are 2 grigorovitch frigates and 1 new build imp kilo class aremed with Kalibrs and oniks that have it on their radar screens. And don't forget the Su-34/24/30 which are designed for anti shipping roles. If the attack with tomahawk failes ...
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:19 pm

    auslander wrote:You do understand the article you linked is two years old, 30.06.15?

    Yes... and? Did you read it? The term is still valid... Just saying. "Russophrenia - a condition where the sufferer believes Russia is both about to collapse, and take over the world." Actually, things have gotten even more riiculous since then.

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