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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

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    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:28 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:Wtf did that T-72B just survive a TOW to the hull? You know they could have totally spotted that goat molester after he shot if they had some infantry on watch. Why wasn't the T-72B moving after it got hit? Maybe the TOW did penetrate, it probably didn't hit the auto loader.
    In very general terms, and putting aside airpower in this case, the history of Arab battlefield defeats is a history of failure to properly use tanks. IDF should have been wiped out at "Valley of Tears" by Syrians, but they inflicted crushing defeat due to superior skills. It was same for Egyptians towards end of 1973 war when they could not withstand General Tal and his tank brigade. Why they have not learnt these very hard and bitter lessons is a mystery, tho SAA have shown great skills using tanks in urban warfare, so they have the ability, but.....

    Tanks have no business in this kind of warfare. Badly concealed tanks even less. They're throwing direct fire with those tanks instead of clearing out nests, we have talked about this. They just don't have the time to properly learn as this war is dragging on and SA needs to be 100% 100% of time.

    calm
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:43 pm

    Strike on SAA position, mistake.

    #Syria #Aleppo Hamza Soud Hamza & Fatma Hassan Ahmed Olba Martyred as #RuAF #Russia Mistakenly Hit #Zahra W/ 4 Cluster Raids & Other Missile

    wo parts of a rocket that hit #Zahra town which belongs allegedly to #RuAF

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:53 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:Wtf did that T-72B just survive a TOW to the hull? You know they could have totally spotted that goat molester after he shot if they had some infantry on watch. Why wasn't the T-72B moving after it got hit? Maybe the TOW did penetrate, it probably didn't hit the auto loader.

    First hit was probably a graze and the crew went out to avoid potential cook off instead of conducting BDA. Then idiot TC gets inside and tried probably to conduct BDA and Counterfire.

    Enter second TOW hit. Which amounted to same result and TC getting out (end of the video). It's simply idiots too scared to conduct actual basic battle tasks.

    Seems so. I can't blame him, he's fighting the war not me.


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:54 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:Wtf did that T-72B just survive a TOW to the hull? You know they could have totally spotted that goat molester after he shot if they had some infantry on watch. Why wasn't the T-72B moving after it got hit? Maybe the TOW did penetrate, it probably didn't hit the auto loader.
    In very general terms, and putting aside airpower in this case, the history of Arab battlefield defeats is a history of failure to properly use tanks. IDF should have been wiped out at "Valley of Tears" by Syrians, but they inflicted crushing defeat due to superior skills. It was same for Egyptians towards end of 1973 war when they could not withstand General Tal and his tank brigade. Why they have not learnt these very hard and bitter lessons is a mystery, tho SAA have shown great skills using tanks in urban warfare, so they have the ability, but.....

    Well yeah the Arabs make a lot of mistakes in war fighting. Not a lack of courage, but lack of tactics and military education, and sometimes even common sense.

    Project Canada
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Project Canada on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:20 am

    VladimirSahin wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:Wtf did that T-72B just survive a TOW to the hull? You know they could have totally spotted that goat molester after he shot if they had some infantry on watch. Why wasn't the T-72B moving after it got hit? Maybe the TOW did penetrate, it probably didn't hit the auto loader.
    In very general terms, and putting aside airpower in this case, the history of Arab battlefield defeats is a history of failure to properly use tanks. IDF should have been wiped out at "Valley of Tears" by Syrians, but they inflicted crushing defeat due to superior skills. It was same for Egyptians towards end of 1973 war when they could not withstand General Tal and his tank brigade. Why they have not learnt these very hard and bitter lessons is a mystery, tho SAA have shown great skills using tanks in urban warfare, so they have the ability, but.....

    Well yeah the Arabs make a lot of mistakes in war fighting. Not a lack of courage, but lack of tactics and military education, and sometimes even common sense.

    Makes me wonder how Arabs defeated the Persians and Byzantines in the 600s..,

    JohninMK
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:52 pm

    calm wrote:Strike on SAA position, mistake.

    wo parts of a rocket that hit #Zahra town which belongs allegedly to #RuAF
    Is this the tail fin of a Russian missile/rocket/bomb?

    PapaDragon
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:56 pm


    Russia plans to build second runway at Hmeim and expand Tartus port infrastructure

    http://twower.livejournal.com/2038200.html

    Militarov
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Militarov on Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:13 pm

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Something special tonight.

    T72B/89

    T-72B/89? T-72B 1989?

    Yes, obr.1989g

    calm
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:27 pm

    ZU-23-2 23mm autocannon with Ammunition in Hmeymim AB ready to airdrop for SAA garrison in Deir-Ezzor.



    Putin Orders Sending Mobile Hospitals to Assist Residents of Syria's Aleppo

    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201611291047967338-russia-syria-aleppo-field/


    Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered sending mobile field hospitals to Aleppo in order to provide immediate medical assistance, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Tuesday.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered sending mobile field hospitals to provide immediate medical assistance to residents of Syria's embattled city of Aleppo and its neighborhoods, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Tuesday. "The president has ordered the Defense ministry and the Emergencies Ministry to send mobile hospitals to provide medical assistance to residents of Aleppo and nearby settlements," Peskov told reporters. According to Peskov, the Defense Ministry will send a special medical unit equipped with a multipurpose hospital for 100 patients, which has a children ward, while the Emergencies Ministry will send a mobile field hospital for 50 patients, which can also provide ambulatory treatment for some 200 people per day.

    OminousSpudd
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  OminousSpudd on Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:27 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Something special tonight.

    T72B/89

    T-72B/89? T-72B 1989?

    Yes, obr.1989g
    Ah, I see. Thanks.

    KiloGolf
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:37 pm

    Greeks Refuse EU Demand to Stop Russian Fuel Tankers


    Russian naval destroyer Smetlivy is docked at the port of Piraeus where it will take part in an event
    connected with the Russian-Greek year of culture near Athens, Greece, Oct. 30, 2016. Source: Reuters


    Dimitrios Velanis, the special advisor on Russian relations to the Greek prime minister, told Russian news agency RIA Novosti that Greece will not take any action against Russia should Russian tankers carrying fuel for the country’s air forces in Syria travel through Greek territorial waters.

    We know that Russian planes bomb terrorists, and not the Syrian people, unlike what is written in several Western news sources. To say that Russia is attacking peaceful ideals is 100 percent false. The Western media does not portray what is really happening, and similarly there is plenty of propaganda against Russia. But the Greek people understand this,”

    On Friday Nov. 25 a source in the Greek Ministry of Defense reported that Russian Navy ships may be able to refuel in Greek ports.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/greece-permit-transit-russian-tankers/ri17879

    If that's no wink-wink I don't know what it is. Give em hell boys.

    Militarov
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Militarov on Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:54 pm



    EDIT: November 26th Aleppo allegedly

    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:00 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    EDIT: November 26th Aleppo allegedly

    Southeastern Aleppo.

    Militarov
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Militarov on Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:04 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    EDIT: November 26th Aleppo allegedly

    Southeastern Aleppo.

    Is it me btw or that barrel looks abit... roasted?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  crod on Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:44 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    EDIT: November 26th Aleppo allegedly

    Southeastern Aleppo.

    Is it me btw or that barrel looks abit... roasted?

    Not sure if it's the background horizon but it looks slightly curved - suspect it's a trick of the eye. Damn thing will ruin some bearded scumbag's breakfast all the same! Looks Aleppo is curtains now for them. early xmas present for one and all attack sniper thumbsup

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:48 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    EDIT: November 26th Aleppo allegedly

    Southeastern Aleppo.

    Is it me btw or that barrel looks abit... roasted?

    toasted and chipotle southwest russia

    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:13 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    EDIT: November 26th Aleppo allegedly

    Southeastern Aleppo.

    Is it me btw or that barrel looks abit... roasted?

    Yes it's done. They've pretty much fired over 2000 rounds in half a month from Nayrab to Sheikh Lutfi (Russians really nailed that one well), them rats fought like crazy for Syriatel heights then found out that the real push was at Hanano and Owija.


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Militarov on Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:40 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    EDIT: November 26th Aleppo allegedly

    Southeastern Aleppo.

    Is it me btw or that barrel looks abit... roasted?

    Yes it's done. They've pretty much fired over 2000 rounds in half  a month from Nayrab to Sheikh Lutfi (Russians really nailed that one well), them rats fought like crazy for Syriatel heights then found out that the real push was at Hanano and Owija.


    Havent seen barrel in such a bad shape since...well... 1999. when guys fired 6000 20mm shells though M55 for one night:


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:56 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    EDIT: November 26th Aleppo allegedly

    Southeastern Aleppo.

    Is it me btw or that barrel looks abit... roasted?

    Yes it's done. They've pretty much fired over 2000 rounds in half  a month from Nayrab to Sheikh Lutfi (Russians really nailed that one well), them rats fought like crazy for Syriatel heights then found out that the real push was at Hanano and Owija.


    Havent seen barrel in such a bad shape since...well... 1999. when guys fired 6000 20mm shells though M55 for one night:


    Barrel replacement would be pretty simple wouldn't it? They can always meltdown, recast, and recycle the old barrel.

    Militarov
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Militarov on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:06 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:EDIT: November 26th Aleppo allegedly

    Southeastern Aleppo.

    Is it me btw or that barrel looks abit... roasted?

    Yes it's done. They've pretty much fired over 2000 rounds in half  a month from Nayrab to Sheikh Lutfi (Russians really nailed that one well), them rats fought like crazy for Syriatel heights then found out that the real push was at Hanano and Owija.

    Havent seen barrel in such a bad shape since...well... 1999. when guys fired 6000 20mm shells though M55 for one night:

    Barrel replacement would be pretty simple wouldn't it? They can always meltdown, recast, and recycle the old barrel.

    Fairly simple yes. However its not that common to wear out howtizer barrel at least not today, back in WW1 and WW2 it was more likely. So spare barrels are not produced on wide scale.

    Melting down and recasting is not very plausible, such recycled materials are used for other purposes as it will never be of the same quality as it was originally.

    calm
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:11 pm

    +

    On the same day, one year apart, Russia gets its revenge and stops Turkey at the gates of al-Bab.
    https://elijahjm.wordpress.com/2016/11/27/on-the-same-day-one-year-apart-russia-gets-its-revenge-and-stops-turkey-at-the-gates-of-al-bab/

    On the 24th of November 2015, Turkey shot down a Russian Sokhoi Su-24 over the Turkish-Syrian border causing the death of one of the two parachuted pilots while trying to hit the ground. On the same day, a year later, a Syrian Air Force jet hits a Turkish military convoy two kilometres from the northern Syrian city of al-Bab, killing three Turkish soldiers. The Turkish aggressive move toward Russia had come after the destruction of hundreds of oil tankers used by the “Islamic State” (ISIS) to transport oil from Syria and Iraq to Turkey.

    The Syrian Air Force (SyAF) activity is directly linked, coordinated and ordered by a common military operations room, headed by a Russian General, so as to avoid friendly fire or incidents. Russia coordinates most of the air traffic with the US-led coalition activities over Syria for the same purposes. The Russian command needs to assure the safeguard of its military naval and ground force with artillery and air protection since it is operating in various locations and cities over the Syrian geography. Therefore, every air strike, reconnaissance or drone sorties must be agreed and approved before anything takes off. Faisal al-Miqdad, the Syrian deputy Foreign Minister clearly said: “This event took place on Syrian land. Turkey should only blame itself”.

    But why the Syrian city of al-Bab?

    When Turkey shot down the Russian jet, the aim was to humiliate Russia and push it out of its comfort zone, knowing that Moscow would think carefully before stepping up a full military escalation against Ankara. On the same day, Turkish President Recep Tayyib Erdogan ran to NATO for protection and refuge. The Russian President Vladimir Putin limited his reaction to hitting Turkey proxies in Syria hard, followed by economic sanctions and much more aggressive support to the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. He agreed to help the Syrian Army retake Aleppo and decided to stand and face the United States of America at all costs in Bilad al-Sham. Putin considered the Turkish action not an Erdogan miscalculated adventure but rather a coordinated act of war with the US. Two main strong elements stand out:

    Russia coordinates air traffic control with the US, informing the military command of its schedule and presence over specific areas.
    It took 17 seconds for the Turkish Air Force to see the Russian Su-24 on its border, ask for orders from the military chain of command and from then via the highest political leadership for the anti-air missile to be launched. This is not a record by military means but impossible to achieve unless previous orders were in place given way ahead.
    Nevertheless, the night of the coup-d’Etat against Erdogan allowed Russia to return the hit to the US by informing Erdogan – via Iran – of the plan to kill him. The premises he was spending some holidays in were supposed to be bombed. But the thirty minutes warning were enough to save Erdogan’s life, and, in consequences, caused the failure of the coup that should have been ignited from the Incirlic military Air base, where US officers are established. The Turkish President accused the US administration indirectly, who in turn strongly contested the Turkish reaction in jailing most officers “friendly of the US”.

    This event warmed up the Turkish-Russian relationship which had dramatically cooled. In Putin’s eyes, the US, not Erdogan, paid the price (even if not fully) of its involvement in the Su-24 incident.

    Turkey responded to the Russian favour by recalling thousands of fighters from Aleppo to the borders to start a military campaign aiming to dismantle the US plan to divide Syria and create a Kurdish state from the Syrian north east, Al-Hasaka, to the Syrian north west, Afrin.

    Dismantling the US plan was convenient for:

    Turkey by preventing a Kurdish state along its borders. This state, apart form the long-lasting Turkish struggle with the Kurds, would also foil the Turkish dream to annexe part of Syria or impose its agenda on Damascus at the end of the war.
    Russia wanted to hit back at the US for the Su-24. The Russian plan is to establish a long-lasting presence in Syria without having to share the territory with its old US enemy. Therefore, the unity of Syria has become valuable for Putin.
    Damascus was happy to teach the Kurds a lesson following al-Hasaka events. The government of Syria and the Kurds were always on good terms, supporting Syrian cities under siege, i.e. Aleppo, Nubl and Zahra’. Nevertheless, the US pressure on the Kurds was greater than the long-standing relationship with Damascus. Nevertheless, the Kurds, as a minority, have dream “since forever” about having a Federation for themselves.
    All of the above created a convenient environment for many players in favour of the Turkish advance toward Jarablus and disturbing the US plans in the north of Syria. Nevertheless, the Turkish President was not content with contering the Kurdish plan but wanted to expand further, even without Russia closing its eyes to what he was doing.

    Turkey allowed regional countries to generously finance and supply Qaidat al-Jihad and Syrian rebels with weapons to initiate major attacks against the Syrian Army and keep it busy within a limited geographical sector, mainly around Aleppo. As soon as Russia and its allies pushed forces toward ISIS occupied territories at al-Tabqa, the jihadists and rebels attacked rural Homs and south Aleppo, forcing Damascus to recall all forces engaged on that front to defend positions under attack.

    Recently, jihadists and rebels carried out two major attacks on Aleppo under the banner of “breaking the siege” of the eastern surrounded part of the city. The “Aleppo Epic Battle” and the “Abu Omar Saraqeb” second battle caused months of full engagement for over 25.000 members of the Syrian Army, and around 8500 of all of their allies ground forces (Iraqi militia, Iranian advisors and their Afghan and Pakistani militia). Additionally, the Lebanese Hezbollah decided to inject 2500 of its elite Ridwan force in Aleppo and leave these in the city. The two attacks failed to achieve their objective in that part of Syria but succeeded in giving enough time for Turkey to advance toward al-Bab city and make the Syrian Army less keen to distribute forces around multiple fronts.

    Damascus didn’t officially agree with the Russian-Turkish understanding over Jarablus because Syria mistrusted the Turkish leader and wanted to maintain a good relationship with the Kurds. Moscow never agreed with Ankara to expand its military presence for controlling the triangle Jarablus-Manbij-al-Bab or even to go to Raqqah.

    The presence of Turkish forces at the door of al-Bab represented a strategic menace to the Syrian Army based in Aleppo from its eastern gate. The presence of Turkish forces and their proxies at 2 km from al-Bab triggered an understanding where ISIS would pull forces from the city without a fight, as was the case in Jarablus. Ankara is trying to insinuate that the intention of its forces to enter al-Bab aim is to stop the Kurdish federation.

    But neither Damascus not Russia will tolerate the Turkish control of al-Bab. The Russians delivered a squad of Su-24M2, deployed the anti-air missiles S-300 and S-400 and encouraged the Syrian President to impose new rules of engagement (ROE) and red lines on Turkey for the first time since the creation of the two states.

    A squadron of the Syrian Air Force, followed by a protection escort, raided a Turkish military convoy at the door of al-Bab on the morning of the 24th of November, killing 3 Turkish soldiers. Russia was on alert, ready to launch its missiles in case of any Turkish reaction. That was the second Syrian-Turkish confrontation since the last month. The first took place over the Syrian-Turkish borders when two F-16s violated Syrian air space. These were confronted by four MIGs who locked their missiles on the Turkish jets. The F-16 scan radar informed the F-16 pilots who received instructions to return to base. Syria imposed it sovereignty over its air space for the first time. Russia won’t tolerate any further violation and Ankara’s F-16 are no longer permitted in the sky over Syria.

    This is exactly what the newly elected US President Donald Trump meant when he declared he has no intention to fight Assad, because this means confronting Putin who is determine to keep Syria united and defend the Syrian regime.

    When hitting Turkish soldiers on Syrian territory, Damascus is not provoking Ankara because it had never given the permission to send that army onto Syrian soil. In consequences, the idea of Turkey pushing forces even toward Raqqah is no longer a pushover, because Damascus and Moscow have not said their last word to Turkey and the US.

    Since Trump said he has no intention of triggering a nuclear war or a third World War, the partition of the north of Syria is no longer as easily imposed compared with during Obama administration. Therefore, the future of Syria depends on how Trump-Putin understanding is imposed on all parties. Either that, or the war will proceed even more violently.

    Erdogan is weaker than ever in relation to Iraq and Syria: he failed to impose his will regarding participation in the attack against the capital of the caliphate, Mosul, or even the smaller city of Talafar. And today he can’t materialise his dream to annex Aleppo, and his forces are stopped at the gates of al-Bab. If he continues toward Raqqah there is a huge risk: he will have to face a superpower: Russia.

    par far
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  par far on Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:00 pm

    calm wrote:+

    On the same day, one year apart, Russia gets its revenge and stops Turkey at the gates of al-Bab.
    https://elijahjm.wordpress.com/2016/11/27/on-the-same-day-one-year-apart-russia-gets-its-revenge-and-stops-turkey-at-the-gates-of-al-bab/

    On the 24th of November 2015, Turkey shot down a Russian Sokhoi Su-24 over the Turkish-Syrian border causing the death of one of the two parachuted pilots while trying to hit the ground. On the same day, a year later, a Syrian Air Force jet hits a Turkish military convoy two kilometres from the northern Syrian city of al-Bab, killing three Turkish soldiers. The Turkish aggressive move toward Russia had come after the destruction of hundreds of oil tankers used by the “Islamic State” (ISIS) to transport oil from Syria and Iraq to Turkey.

    The Syrian Air Force (SyAF) activity is directly linked, coordinated and ordered by a common military operations room, headed by a Russian General, so as to avoid friendly fire or incidents. Russia coordinates most of the air traffic with the US-led coalition activities over Syria for the same purposes. The Russian command needs to assure the safeguard of its military naval and ground force with artillery and air protection since it is operating in various locations and cities over the Syrian geography. Therefore, every air strike, reconnaissance or drone sorties must be agreed and approved before anything takes off. Faisal al-Miqdad, the Syrian deputy Foreign Minister clearly said: “This event took place on Syrian land. Turkey should only blame itself”.

    But why the Syrian city of al-Bab?

    When Turkey shot down the Russian jet, the aim was to humiliate Russia and push it out of its comfort zone, knowing that Moscow would think carefully before stepping up a full military escalation against Ankara. On the same day, Turkish President Recep Tayyib Erdogan ran to NATO for protection and refuge. The Russian President Vladimir Putin limited his reaction to hitting Turkey proxies in Syria hard, followed by economic sanctions and much more aggressive support to the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. He agreed to help the Syrian Army retake Aleppo and decided to stand and face the United States of America at all costs in Bilad al-Sham. Putin considered the Turkish action not an Erdogan miscalculated adventure but rather a coordinated act of war with the US. Two main strong elements stand out:

    Russia coordinates air traffic control with the US, informing the military command of its schedule and presence over specific areas.
    It took 17 seconds for the Turkish Air Force to see the Russian Su-24 on its border, ask for orders from the military chain of command and from then via the highest political leadership for the anti-air missile to be launched. This is not a record by military means but impossible to achieve unless previous orders were in place given way ahead.
    Nevertheless, the night of the coup-d’Etat against Erdogan allowed Russia to return the hit to the US by informing Erdogan – via Iran – of the plan to kill him. The premises he was spending some holidays in were supposed to be bombed. But the thirty minutes warning were enough to save Erdogan’s life, and, in consequences, caused the failure of the coup that should have been ignited from the Incirlic military Air base, where US officers are established. The Turkish President accused the US administration indirectly, who in turn strongly contested the Turkish reaction in jailing most officers “friendly of the US”.

    This event warmed up the Turkish-Russian relationship which had dramatically cooled. In Putin’s eyes, the US, not Erdogan, paid the price (even if not fully) of its involvement in the Su-24 incident.

    Turkey responded to the Russian favour by recalling thousands of fighters from Aleppo to the borders to start a military campaign aiming to dismantle the US plan to divide Syria and create a Kurdish state from the Syrian north east, Al-Hasaka, to the Syrian north west, Afrin.

    Dismantling the US plan was convenient for:

    Turkey by preventing a Kurdish state along its borders. This state, apart form the long-lasting Turkish struggle with the Kurds, would also foil the Turkish dream to annexe part of Syria or impose its agenda on Damascus at the end of the war.
    Russia wanted to hit back at the US for the Su-24. The Russian plan is to establish a long-lasting presence in Syria without having to share the territory with its old US enemy. Therefore, the unity of Syria has become valuable for Putin.
    Damascus was happy to teach the Kurds a lesson following al-Hasaka events. The government of Syria and the Kurds were always on good terms, supporting Syrian cities under siege, i.e. Aleppo, Nubl and Zahra’. Nevertheless, the US pressure on the Kurds was greater than the long-standing relationship with Damascus. Nevertheless, the Kurds, as a minority, have dream “since forever” about having a Federation for themselves.
    All of the above created a convenient environment for many players in favour of the Turkish advance toward Jarablus and disturbing the US plans in the north of Syria. Nevertheless, the Turkish President was not content with contering the Kurdish plan but wanted to expand further, even without Russia closing its eyes to what he was doing.

    Turkey allowed regional countries to generously finance and supply Qaidat al-Jihad and Syrian rebels with weapons to initiate major attacks against the Syrian Army and keep it busy within a limited geographical sector, mainly around Aleppo. As soon as Russia and its allies pushed forces toward ISIS occupied territories at al-Tabqa, the jihadists and rebels attacked rural Homs and south Aleppo, forcing Damascus to recall all forces engaged on that front to defend positions under attack.

    Recently, jihadists and rebels carried out two major attacks on Aleppo under the banner of “breaking the siege” of the eastern surrounded part of the city. The “Aleppo Epic Battle” and the “Abu Omar Saraqeb” second battle caused months of full engagement for over 25.000 members of the Syrian Army, and around 8500 of all of their allies ground forces (Iraqi militia, Iranian advisors and their Afghan and Pakistani militia). Additionally, the Lebanese Hezbollah decided to inject 2500 of its elite Ridwan force in Aleppo and leave these in the city. The two attacks failed to achieve their objective in that part of Syria but succeeded in giving enough time for Turkey to advance toward al-Bab city and make the Syrian Army less keen to distribute forces around multiple fronts.

    Damascus didn’t officially agree with the Russian-Turkish understanding over Jarablus because Syria mistrusted the Turkish leader and wanted to maintain a good relationship with the Kurds. Moscow never agreed with Ankara to expand its military presence for controlling the triangle Jarablus-Manbij-al-Bab or even to go to Raqqah.

    The presence of Turkish forces at the door of al-Bab represented a strategic menace to the Syrian Army based in Aleppo from its eastern gate. The presence of Turkish forces and their proxies at 2 km from al-Bab triggered an understanding where ISIS would pull forces from the city without a fight, as was the case in Jarablus. Ankara is trying to insinuate that the intention of its forces to enter al-Bab aim is to stop the Kurdish federation.

    But neither Damascus not Russia will tolerate the Turkish control of al-Bab. The Russians delivered a squad of Su-24M2, deployed the anti-air missiles S-300 and S-400 and encouraged the Syrian President to impose new rules of engagement (ROE) and red lines on Turkey for the first time since the creation of the two states.

    A squadron of the Syrian Air Force, followed by a protection escort, raided a Turkish military convoy at the door of al-Bab on the morning of the 24th of November, killing 3 Turkish soldiers. Russia was on alert, ready to launch its missiles in case of any Turkish reaction. That was the second Syrian-Turkish confrontation since the last month. The first took place over the Syrian-Turkish borders when two F-16s violated Syrian air space. These were confronted by four MIGs who locked their missiles on the Turkish jets. The F-16 scan radar informed the F-16 pilots who received instructions to return to base. Syria imposed it sovereignty over its air space for the first time. Russia won’t tolerate any further violation and Ankara’s F-16 are no longer permitted in the sky over Syria.

    This is exactly what the newly elected US President Donald Trump meant when he declared he has no intention to fight Assad, because this means confronting Putin who is determine to keep Syria united and defend the Syrian regime.

    When hitting Turkish soldiers on Syrian territory, Damascus is not provoking Ankara because it had never given the permission to send that army onto Syrian soil. In consequences, the idea of Turkey pushing forces even toward Raqqah is no longer a pushover, because Damascus and Moscow have not said their last word to Turkey and the US.

    Since Trump said he has no intention of triggering a nuclear war or a third World War, the partition of the north of Syria is no longer as easily imposed compared with during Obama administration. Therefore, the future of Syria depends on how Trump-Putin understanding is imposed on all parties. Either that, or the war will proceed even more violently.

    Erdogan is weaker than ever in relation to Iraq and Syria: he failed to impose his will regarding participation in the attack against the capital of the caliphate, Mosul, or even the smaller city of Talafar. And today he can’t materialise his dream to annex Aleppo, and his forces are stopped at the gates of al-Bab. If he continues toward Raqqah there is a huge risk: he will have to face a superpower: Russia.


    Great article and a lot of details in it, some things that I did not even know.

    Godric
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Godric on Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:35 pm

    par far wrote:
    calm wrote:+

    On the same day, one year apart, Russia gets its revenge and stops Turkey at the gates of al-Bab.
    https://elijahjm.wordpress.com/2016/11/27/on-the-same-day-one-year-apart-russia-gets-its-revenge-and-stops-turkey-at-the-gates-of-al-bab/

    On the 24th of November 2015, Turkey shot down a Russian Sokhoi Su-24 over the Turkish-Syrian border causing the death of one of the two parachuted pilots while trying to hit the ground. On the same day, a year later, a Syrian Air Force jet hits a Turkish military convoy two kilometres from the northern Syrian city of al-Bab, killing three Turkish soldiers. The Turkish aggressive move toward Russia had come after the destruction of hundreds of oil tankers used by the “Islamic State” (ISIS) to transport oil from Syria and Iraq to Turkey.

    The Syrian Air Force (SyAF) activity is directly linked, coordinated and ordered by a common military operations room, headed by a Russian General, so as to avoid friendly fire or incidents. Russia coordinates most of the air traffic with the US-led coalition activities over Syria for the same purposes. The Russian command needs to assure the safeguard of its military naval and ground force with artillery and air protection since it is operating in various locations and cities over the Syrian geography. Therefore, every air strike, reconnaissance or drone sorties must be agreed and approved before anything takes off. Faisal al-Miqdad, the Syrian deputy Foreign Minister clearly said: “This event took place on Syrian land. Turkey should only blame itself”.

    But why the Syrian city of al-Bab?

    When Turkey shot down the Russian jet, the aim was to humiliate Russia and push it out of its comfort zone, knowing that Moscow would think carefully before stepping up a full military escalation against Ankara. On the same day, Turkish President Recep Tayyib Erdogan ran to NATO for protection and refuge. The Russian President Vladimir Putin limited his reaction to hitting Turkey proxies in Syria hard, followed by economic sanctions and much more aggressive support to the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. He agreed to help the Syrian Army retake Aleppo and decided to stand and face the United States of America at all costs in Bilad al-Sham. Putin considered the Turkish action not an Erdogan miscalculated adventure but rather a coordinated act of war with the US. Two main strong elements stand out:

    Russia coordinates air traffic control with the US, informing the military command of its schedule and presence over specific areas.
    It took 17 seconds for the Turkish Air Force to see the Russian Su-24 on its border, ask for orders from the military chain of command and from then via the highest political leadership for the anti-air missile to be launched. This is not a record by military means but impossible to achieve unless previous orders were in place given way ahead.
    Nevertheless, the night of the coup-d’Etat against Erdogan allowed Russia to return the hit to the US by informing Erdogan – via Iran – of the plan to kill him. The premises he was spending some holidays in were supposed to be bombed. But the thirty minutes warning were enough to save Erdogan’s life, and, in consequences, caused the failure of the coup that should have been ignited from the Incirlic military Air base, where US officers are established. The Turkish President accused the US administration indirectly, who in turn strongly contested the Turkish reaction in jailing most officers “friendly of the US”.

    This event warmed up the Turkish-Russian relationship which had dramatically cooled. In Putin’s eyes, the US, not Erdogan, paid the price (even if not fully) of its involvement in the Su-24 incident.

    Turkey responded to the Russian favour by recalling thousands of fighters from Aleppo to the borders to start a military campaign aiming to dismantle the US plan to divide Syria and create a Kurdish state from the Syrian north east, Al-Hasaka, to the Syrian north west, Afrin.

    Dismantling the US plan was convenient for:

    Turkey by preventing a Kurdish state along its borders. This state, apart form the long-lasting Turkish struggle with the Kurds, would also foil the Turkish dream to annexe part of Syria or impose its agenda on Damascus at the end of the war.
    Russia wanted to hit back at the US for the Su-24. The Russian plan is to establish a long-lasting presence in Syria without having to share the territory with its old US enemy. Therefore, the unity of Syria has become valuable for Putin.
    Damascus was happy to teach the Kurds a lesson following al-Hasaka events. The government of Syria and the Kurds were always on good terms, supporting Syrian cities under siege, i.e. Aleppo, Nubl and Zahra’. Nevertheless, the US pressure on the Kurds was greater than the long-standing relationship with Damascus. Nevertheless, the Kurds, as a minority, have dream “since forever” about having a Federation for themselves.
    All of the above created a convenient environment for many players in favour of the Turkish advance toward Jarablus and disturbing the US plans in the north of Syria. Nevertheless, the Turkish President was not content with contering the Kurdish plan but wanted to expand further, even without Russia closing its eyes to what he was doing.

    Turkey allowed regional countries to generously finance and supply Qaidat al-Jihad and Syrian rebels with weapons to initiate major attacks against the Syrian Army and keep it busy within a limited geographical sector, mainly around Aleppo. As soon as Russia and its allies pushed forces toward ISIS occupied territories at al-Tabqa, the jihadists and rebels attacked rural Homs and south Aleppo, forcing Damascus to recall all forces engaged on that front to defend positions under attack.

    Recently, jihadists and rebels carried out two major attacks on Aleppo under the banner of “breaking the siege” of the eastern surrounded part of the city. The “Aleppo Epic Battle” and the “Abu Omar Saraqeb” second battle caused months of full engagement for over 25.000 members of the Syrian Army, and around 8500 of all of their allies ground forces (Iraqi militia, Iranian advisors and their Afghan and Pakistani militia). Additionally, the Lebanese Hezbollah decided to inject 2500 of its elite Ridwan force in Aleppo and leave these in the city. The two attacks failed to achieve their objective in that part of Syria but succeeded in giving enough time for Turkey to advance toward al-Bab city and make the Syrian Army less keen to distribute forces around multiple fronts.

    Damascus didn’t officially agree with the Russian-Turkish understanding over Jarablus because Syria mistrusted the Turkish leader and wanted to maintain a good relationship with the Kurds. Moscow never agreed with Ankara to expand its military presence for controlling the triangle Jarablus-Manbij-al-Bab or even to go to Raqqah.

    The presence of Turkish forces at the door of al-Bab represented a strategic menace to the Syrian Army based in Aleppo from its eastern gate. The presence of Turkish forces and their proxies at 2 km from al-Bab triggered an understanding where ISIS would pull forces from the city without a fight, as was the case in Jarablus. Ankara is trying to insinuate that the intention of its forces to enter al-Bab aim is to stop the Kurdish federation.

    But neither Damascus not Russia will tolerate the Turkish control of al-Bab. The Russians delivered a squad of Su-24M2, deployed the anti-air missiles S-300 and S-400 and encouraged the Syrian President to impose new rules of engagement (ROE) and red lines on Turkey for the first time since the creation of the two states.

    A squadron of the Syrian Air Force, followed by a protection escort, raided a Turkish military convoy at the door of al-Bab on the morning of the 24th of November, killing 3 Turkish soldiers. Russia was on alert, ready to launch its missiles in case of any Turkish reaction. That was the second Syrian-Turkish confrontation since the last month. The first took place over the Syrian-Turkish borders when two F-16s violated Syrian air space. These were confronted by four MIGs who locked their missiles on the Turkish jets. The F-16 scan radar informed the F-16 pilots who received instructions to return to base. Syria imposed it sovereignty over its air space for the first time. Russia won’t tolerate any further violation and Ankara’s F-16 are no longer permitted in the sky over Syria.

    This is exactly what the newly elected US President Donald Trump meant when he declared he has no intention to fight Assad, because this means confronting Putin who is determine to keep Syria united and defend the Syrian regime.

    When hitting Turkish soldiers on Syrian territory, Damascus is not provoking Ankara because it had never given the permission to send that army onto Syrian soil. In consequences, the idea of Turkey pushing forces even toward Raqqah is no longer a pushover, because Damascus and Moscow have not said their last word to Turkey and the US.

    Since Trump said he has no intention of triggering a nuclear war or a third World War, the partition of the north of Syria is no longer as easily imposed compared with during Obama administration. Therefore, the future of Syria depends on how Trump-Putin understanding is imposed on all parties. Either that, or the war will proceed even more violently.

    Erdogan is weaker than ever in relation to Iraq and Syria: he failed to impose his will regarding participation in the attack against the capital of the caliphate, Mosul, or even the smaller city of Talafar. And today he can’t materialise his dream to annex Aleppo, and his forces are stopped at the gates of al-Bab. If he continues toward Raqqah there is a huge risk: he will have to face a superpower: Russia.


    Great article and a lot of details in it, some things that I did not even know.

    and Erdogan can't go running to America or Nato after his disparaging comments about the USA and Nato over the failed coup and his comments towards Nato he is a leader with very few friends

    par far
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  par far on Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:52 pm

    Godric wrote:
    par far wrote:
    calm wrote:+

    On the same day, one year apart, Russia gets its revenge and stops Turkey at the gates of al-Bab.
    https://elijahjm.wordpress.com/2016/11/27/on-the-same-day-one-year-apart-russia-gets-its-revenge-and-stops-turkey-at-the-gates-of-al-bab/

    On the 24th of November 2015, Turkey shot down a Russian Sokhoi Su-24 over the Turkish-Syrian border causing the death of one of the two parachuted pilots while trying to hit the ground. On the same day, a year later, a Syrian Air Force jet hits a Turkish military convoy two kilometres from the northern Syrian city of al-Bab, killing three Turkish soldiers. The Turkish aggressive move toward Russia had come after the destruction of hundreds of oil tankers used by the “Islamic State” (ISIS) to transport oil from Syria and Iraq to Turkey.

    The Syrian Air Force (SyAF) activity is directly linked, coordinated and ordered by a common military operations room, headed by a Russian General, so as to avoid friendly fire or incidents. Russia coordinates most of the air traffic with the US-led coalition activities over Syria for the same purposes. The Russian command needs to assure the safeguard of its military naval and ground force with artillery and air protection since it is operating in various locations and cities over the Syrian geography. Therefore, every air strike, reconnaissance or drone sorties must be agreed and approved before anything takes off. Faisal al-Miqdad, the Syrian deputy Foreign Minister clearly said: “This event took place on Syrian land. Turkey should only blame itself”.

    But why the Syrian city of al-Bab?

    When Turkey shot down the Russian jet, the aim was to humiliate Russia and push it out of its comfort zone, knowing that Moscow would think carefully before stepping up a full military escalation against Ankara. On the same day, Turkish President Recep Tayyib Erdogan ran to NATO for protection and refuge. The Russian President Vladimir Putin limited his reaction to hitting Turkey proxies in Syria hard, followed by economic sanctions and much more aggressive support to the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. He agreed to help the Syrian Army retake Aleppo and decided to stand and face the United States of America at all costs in Bilad al-Sham. Putin considered the Turkish action not an Erdogan miscalculated adventure but rather a coordinated act of war with the US. Two main strong elements stand out:

    Russia coordinates air traffic control with the US, informing the military command of its schedule and presence over specific areas.
    It took 17 seconds for the Turkish Air Force to see the Russian Su-24 on its border, ask for orders from the military chain of command and from then via the highest political leadership for the anti-air missile to be launched. This is not a record by military means but impossible to achieve unless previous orders were in place given way ahead.
    Nevertheless, the night of the coup-d’Etat against Erdogan allowed Russia to return the hit to the US by informing Erdogan – via Iran – of the plan to kill him. The premises he was spending some holidays in were supposed to be bombed. But the thirty minutes warning were enough to save Erdogan’s life, and, in consequences, caused the failure of the coup that should have been ignited from the Incirlic military Air base, where US officers are established. The Turkish President accused the US administration indirectly, who in turn strongly contested the Turkish reaction in jailing most officers “friendly of the US”.

    This event warmed up the Turkish-Russian relationship which had dramatically cooled. In Putin’s eyes, the US, not Erdogan, paid the price (even if not fully) of its involvement in the Su-24 incident.

    Turkey responded to the Russian favour by recalling thousands of fighters from Aleppo to the borders to start a military campaign aiming to dismantle the US plan to divide Syria and create a Kurdish state from the Syrian north east, Al-Hasaka, to the Syrian north west, Afrin.

    Dismantling the US plan was convenient for:

    Turkey by preventing a Kurdish state along its borders. This state, apart form the long-lasting Turkish struggle with the Kurds, would also foil the Turkish dream to annexe part of Syria or impose its agenda on Damascus at the end of the war.
    Russia wanted to hit back at the US for the Su-24. The Russian plan is to establish a long-lasting presence in Syria without having to share the territory with its old US enemy. Therefore, the unity of Syria has become valuable for Putin.
    Damascus was happy to teach the Kurds a lesson following al-Hasaka events. The government of Syria and the Kurds were always on good terms, supporting Syrian cities under siege, i.e. Aleppo, Nubl and Zahra’. Nevertheless, the US pressure on the Kurds was greater than the long-standing relationship with Damascus. Nevertheless, the Kurds, as a minority, have dream “since forever” about having a Federation for themselves.
    All of the above created a convenient environment for many players in favour of the Turkish advance toward Jarablus and disturbing the US plans in the north of Syria. Nevertheless, the Turkish President was not content with contering the Kurdish plan but wanted to expand further, even without Russia closing its eyes to what he was doing.

    Turkey allowed regional countries to generously finance and supply Qaidat al-Jihad and Syrian rebels with weapons to initiate major attacks against the Syrian Army and keep it busy within a limited geographical sector, mainly around Aleppo. As soon as Russia and its allies pushed forces toward ISIS occupied territories at al-Tabqa, the jihadists and rebels attacked rural Homs and south Aleppo, forcing Damascus to recall all forces engaged on that front to defend positions under attack.

    Recently, jihadists and rebels carried out two major attacks on Aleppo under the banner of “breaking the siege” of the eastern surrounded part of the city. The “Aleppo Epic Battle” and the “Abu Omar Saraqeb” second battle caused months of full engagement for over 25.000 members of the Syrian Army, and around 8500 of all of their allies ground forces (Iraqi militia, Iranian advisors and their Afghan and Pakistani militia). Additionally, the Lebanese Hezbollah decided to inject 2500 of its elite Ridwan force in Aleppo and leave these in the city. The two attacks failed to achieve their objective in that part of Syria but succeeded in giving enough time for Turkey to advance toward al-Bab city and make the Syrian Army less keen to distribute forces around multiple fronts.

    Damascus didn’t officially agree with the Russian-Turkish understanding over Jarablus because Syria mistrusted the Turkish leader and wanted to maintain a good relationship with the Kurds. Moscow never agreed with Ankara to expand its military presence for controlling the triangle Jarablus-Manbij-al-Bab or even to go to Raqqah.

    The presence of Turkish forces at the door of al-Bab represented a strategic menace to the Syrian Army based in Aleppo from its eastern gate. The presence of Turkish forces and their proxies at 2 km from al-Bab triggered an understanding where ISIS would pull forces from the city without a fight, as was the case in Jarablus. Ankara is trying to insinuate that the intention of its forces to enter al-Bab aim is to stop the Kurdish federation.

    But neither Damascus not Russia will tolerate the Turkish control of al-Bab. The Russians delivered a squad of Su-24M2, deployed the anti-air missiles S-300 and S-400 and encouraged the Syrian President to impose new rules of engagement (ROE) and red lines on Turkey for the first time since the creation of the two states.

    A squadron of the Syrian Air Force, followed by a protection escort, raided a Turkish military convoy at the door of al-Bab on the morning of the 24th of November, killing 3 Turkish soldiers. Russia was on alert, ready to launch its missiles in case of any Turkish reaction. That was the second Syrian-Turkish confrontation since the last month. The first took place over the Syrian-Turkish borders when two F-16s violated Syrian air space. These were confronted by four MIGs who locked their missiles on the Turkish jets. The F-16 scan radar informed the F-16 pilots who received instructions to return to base. Syria imposed it sovereignty over its air space for the first time. Russia won’t tolerate any further violation and Ankara’s F-16 are no longer permitted in the sky over Syria.

    This is exactly what the newly elected US President Donald Trump meant when he declared he has no intention to fight Assad, because this means confronting Putin who is determine to keep Syria united and defend the Syrian regime.

    When hitting Turkish soldiers on Syrian territory, Damascus is not provoking Ankara because it had never given the permission to send that army onto Syrian soil. In consequences, the idea of Turkey pushing forces even toward Raqqah is no longer a pushover, because Damascus and Moscow have not said their last word to Turkey and the US.

    Since Trump said he has no intention of triggering a nuclear war or a third World War, the partition of the north of Syria is no longer as easily imposed compared with during Obama administration. Therefore, the future of Syria depends on how Trump-Putin understanding is imposed on all parties. Either that, or the war will proceed even more violently.

    Erdogan is weaker than ever in relation to Iraq and Syria: he failed to impose his will regarding participation in the attack against the capital of the caliphate, Mosul, or even the smaller city of Talafar. And today he can’t materialise his dream to annex Aleppo, and his forces are stopped at the gates of al-Bab. If he continues toward Raqqah there is a huge risk: he will have to face a superpower: Russia.


    Great article and a lot of details in it, some things that I did not even know.

    and Erdogan can't go running to America or Nato after his disparaging comments about the USA and Nato over the failed coup and his comments towards Nato he is a leader with very few friends


    Very true, Erdogan was an idiot for trying to remove Assad. Assad never did anything to Turkey and Assad kept the Kurds away from Turkey and Syria had good relationship with Turkey for so long(there were minor things but for Turkey, Assad was better than the Kurds or the deceiving Zionists).

    Erdogan was tricked by the AngloZionists to help them destroy Syria and Iraq and Ahmet Davutoğlu knew this(Ahmet Davutoğlu wanted friendly relationships with Turkey's neighbours, Russia, Iran and China(Erdogan destroyed good relations with China by doing the dirty work of US and by targeting the Uyghurs in China) while having Turkish influence on them) and this was the reason that Ahmet Davutoğlu resigned.

    PapaDragon
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:54 pm


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

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