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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

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    JohninMK
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:02 pm

    airstrike wrote:Four newly-delivered Russian Su-35S jets deployed to Syria

    http://defense-watch.com/2016/11/22/four-newly-delivered-russian-su-35s-jets-deployed-syria/

    Keep up, George1 beat you to that news by over 2 hours. Very Happy

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:13 pm

    EU enters parallel universe Smile WTF so waters are under EU jurisdiction not int routes?


    Exclusive: Russian tankers defy EU ban to smuggle jet fuel to Syria - sources


    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-fuel-exclusive-idUSKBN13H1T8


    By Guy Faulconbridge and Jonathan Saul | LONDON
    Russian tankers have smuggled jet fuel to Syria through EU waters, bolstering military supplies to a war-torn country where Moscow is carrying out air strikes in support of the government, according to sources with knowledge of the matter.

    At least two Russian-flagged ships made deliveries - which contravene EU sanctions - via Cyprus, an intelligence source with a European Union government told Reuters. There was a sharp increase in shipments in October, said the source who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter.

    A separate shipping source familiar with the movements of the Russian-flagged vessels said the ships visited Cypriot and Greek ports before delivering fuel to Syria.

    The Russian defence and transport ministries did not initially respond to requests for comment. The defence ministry later said EU sanctions on fuel supplies to Syria could not be applied to the Russian air group in that country.

    A spokeswoman for EU foreign affairs and security policy said the implementation of EU restrictions lay with member states. "We trust that competent authorities are complying with their obligation to ensure respect of the restrictive measures in place and to pursue any circumvention attempts," she added.

    Greece's foreign ministry referred questions to the shipping ministry, which was not immediately available to comment.

    The Cypriot government said its authorities had not approved the docking of any Russian tankers carrying jet fuel bound for Syria. "We would welcome any information that may be provided to us on any activity that contravenes U.N. or EU restrictive measures," the Cypriot foreign ministry added.

    Syria's civil war, which began in 2011, has become a theatre for competing global powers, with Russia and Iran supporting President Bashar al-Assad, and the United States, Gulf Arab and European powers backing rebels who want to depose him.

    Russia changed the course of the conflict in favour of Assad's government last year when it intervened with air strikes. Moscow says it targets only Islamic State militants and other jihadist fighters.

    EU Council Regulation 1323/2014, introduced two years ago, bans any supply of jet fuel to Syria from the EU territories, whether or not the fuel originated in the European Union.

    Over one two-week period in October, Russian tankers delivered 20,000 metric tonnes of jet fuel to Syria - worth around $9 million at today's world prices - via the European Union, according to the EU government intelligence source.

    "The jet fuel shipments from these vessels have played a vital role in maintaining Russian air strikes in the region," said the source. "This points to a sustained Russian build-up of resources needed to support their military operation and ambitions in Syria."

    Some of the shipped fuel also went to the Syrian military, helping to "keep Assad's air assets operational", the source added.

    The shipping source and a third person, an intelligence consultant specialising in the Mediterranean area, also said the fuel was likely intended for Russian and Syrian military use.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  par far on Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:21 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    George1 wrote:According to the web-site forums.airforce.ru, four new Su-35S (red hull numbers from "50" to "53"), transmitted VKS Russia in November 2016 and from 12 to 15 November flew from Komsomolsk on-Amur in the European part of Russia on November 21, made a flight to the airbase Hmeymim in Syria.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2272938.html

    my guess: in factoiry they fixed all flaws pointed by military and now retesting in field conditions.



    What flaws did they have?

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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:10 pm

    par far wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    George1 wrote:According to the web-site forums.airforce.ru, four new Su-35S (red hull numbers from "50" to "53"), transmitted VKS Russia in November 2016 and from 12 to 15 November flew from Komsomolsk on-Amur in the European part of Russia on November 21, made a flight to the airbase Hmeymim in Syria.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2272938.html

    my guess: in factoiry they fixed all flaws pointed by military and now retesting in field conditions.



    What flaws did they have?

    Shougi did not specify talking about need to fix some flaws Smile

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:15 am



    The london Cabalist mafia trying to get more sanction on Russia for supplying fuel to
    Syria.. lol1 How much idiocy , none of this people still get it , that the Syrian war is over
    ,that Assad will not go and that their sponsored terrorist will be wiped from Syria completely.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:03 am

    Rally in support to Russian military operation in Syria held outside embassy in London

    More:
    http://tass.com/world/914218


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  zorobabel on Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:12 am

    After today's events, I can only call this an epic troll: http://tass.com/politics/914403 - "Moscow hopes Turkey learned a lesson from last year’s downing of Russian jet"

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  MonkeymodelBananaRepublic on Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:30 pm

    Does anyone have a good handle on the game that is being played out here?

    From what I can make out:

    US is fighting for influence/control over iraq as a puppet state but iraq has increasingly been falling into orbit of iran and russia. Iraq is trying to play these two groups off against one another and against kurds

    syria is solidly in russia camp (has been for 40 + years)

    turkey was solidly in US camp for decades but following downing russian jet they have had second thoughts? US picked up on this when ergon stopped following US orders and tried to kiss and make up with russia - so they launched a real coup attempt to remove him from power and replace him with someone who follow orders or to at least scare him into line. russia tipped him off, saved his butt effectively, now he is playing US and russia off against one another so he can have some independance to attack turks to stop his own country from fragmenting

    Kurds in turkey, iraq, syria are all same religion and secular but hate each others guts. They are playing russia and US off against one another for support to fight terrorists and assad (depending on how brave they feel) - so they can form their own country.

    Neither syria, iraq, iran, turkey want to see a kurdistan or 3 exist so oppose it. But russia and US dont mind a kurdistan? Israel has been flying and supplying kurds for 3 years at least - dont mind supporting them to prolong muslims killing each other instead of jews

    If this is the case, now that the end is in sight for the iraq campaign against ISIS and assad has given approval for iraq PMU to enter syria to help kill ISIS - does this mean iraq and syria might be moving to push back against the kurds along with turkey? This would seem to be in the best interest of all 3 countries (iraq, syria, turkey)

    Could that be why turkey has encroached on these countries sovereignty as opposed to idea of turkey still having idea of wanting to rule middle east. I am sure turkey president knows no way russia/iran would ever let that happen and they dont want to get into a direct fight with them after seeing what they can do last 2 years and how luke-warm US can be when it feels things are not fast and easy (e.g. Libya, Iraq 1, Iraq 2). Does this sound about right?   unshaven    

    If this is the players objectives and how they are going about achieving themit might make it easier to understand what is going on in the battle-field. It makes my head spin to read in the newspapers each week the changing in support from one side to another.  dunno

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:18 pm

    MonkeymodelBananaRepublic wrote:Does anyone have a good handle on the game that is being played out here?

    From what I can make out:

    US is fighting for influence/control over iraq as a puppet state but iraq has increasingly been falling into orbit of iran and russia. Iraq is trying to play these two groups off against one another and against kurds

    syria is solidly in russia camp (has been for 40 + years)

    turkey was solidly in US camp for decades but following downing russian jet they have had second thoughts? US picked up on this when ergon stopped following US orders and tried to kiss and make up with russia - so they launched a real coup attempt to remove him from power and replace him with someone who follow orders or to at least scare him into line. russia tipped him off, saved his butt effectively, now he is playing US and russia off against one another so he can have some independance to attack turks to stop his own country from fragmenting

    Kurds in turkey, iraq, syria are all same religion and secular but hate each others guts. They are playing russia and US off against one another for support to fight terrorists and assad (depending on how brave they feel) - so they can form their own country.

    Neither syria, iraq, iran, turkey want to see a kurdistan or 3 exist so oppose it. But russia and US dont mind a kurdistan? Israel has been flying and supplying kurds for 3 years at least - dont mind supporting them to prolong muslims killing each other instead of jews

    If this is the case, now that the end is in sight for the iraq campaign against ISIS and assad has given approval for iraq PMU to enter syria to help kill ISIS - does this mean iraq and syria might be moving to push back against the kurds along with turkey? This would seem to be in the best interest of all 3 countries (iraq, syria, turkey)

    Could that be why turkey has encroached on these countries sovereignty as opposed to idea of turkey still having idea of wanting to rule middle east. I am sure turkey president knows no way russia/iran would ever let that happen and they dont want to get into a direct fight with them after seeing what they can do last 2 years and how luke-warm US can be when it feels things are not fast and easy (e.g. Libya, Iraq 1, Iraq 2). Does this sound about right?   unshaven    

    If this is the players objectives and how they are going about achieving themit might make it easier to understand what is going on in the battle-field. It makes my head spin to read in the newspapers each week the changing in support from one side to another.  dunno
    Not a bad summary but you forgot to mention the US's prime objective of removing Assad and barely mentioned those strategic buddies, Saudi/Qatar/Israel.

    Above all else, since WW2 all the wars in the Middle East have been about resources. In that case of the Israeli/Arab wars it was about land, all the others are about oil/gas.

    Governments have been replaced by the US, with its vassals, in Iraq a couple of times and in Iran for that reason alone when there was any risk to the US$. To understand what is behind this you have to know the benefit to the US of having the US$ as the World's reserve currency. It is this, they create $ at zero cost and use them to buy things around the world. So, in this case, all the oil they have been purchasing since WW2 has effectively been free. This will continue to be so whilst the US$ is used as the currency for oil. Note that before they were overthrown both Saddam and Ghaddafi were starting to sell oil in Euros and for gold, that soon stopped when their countries descended into their planned chaos. Syria was next.

    This is the fundamental reason why the US has such a strong interest in Syria. Not only does Syria have significant reserves on and off shore but it also lies across the best gas pipe route from the west side of the Gulf to Europe. It is of vital strategic concern to the US that a European competitor to Russian gas is created. Without it there is a real risk that Russia will start selling oil/gas to Europe in Roubles or gold which would be a US$ disaster.

    Its the pipelines dear boy, the pipelines.

    calm
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  calm on Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:56 pm

    Russian carrier jets flying from #Syria, not Kuznetsov
    http://www.janes.com/article/65775/russian-carrier-jets-flying-from-syria-not-kuznetsov

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  medo on Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:07 pm

    calm wrote:Russian carrier jets flying from #Syria, not Kuznetsov
    http://www.janes.com/article/65775/russian-carrier-jets-flying-from-syria-not-kuznetsov

    From such picture it is also very hard to distinguish between Su-33 and Su-30SM although Su-33 most probably have more dark blue tones, so I think they actually are Su-33. It make sense to use Hmeimim air base for Su-33 as well as they are nearer to the front and could carry more armament and they could still return to carrier when needed. There is absolutely more fuel and armament for Su-33 in air base than in carrier. Intereasting is, that MiGs are not there.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:19 pm

    calm wrote:Russian carrier jets flying from #Syria, not Kuznetsov
    http://www.janes.com/article/65775/russian-carrier-jets-flying-from-syria-not-kuznetsov

    Almost impossible to distinguish the SU-34 from Su-33. Why do I have my doubts about this?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:22 pm

    Has the bottom left 'Su-33' got its wings folded?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:38 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    calm wrote:Russian carrier jets flying from #Syria, not Kuznetsov
    http://www.janes.com/article/65775/russian-carrier-jets-flying-from-syria-not-kuznetsov

    Almost impossible to distinguish the SU-34 from Su-33. Why do I have my doubts about this?

    The -34 is about 3 m longer, esp on the tail. If that helps.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:54 am

    That would be stupid if that's the case, no experience can be gained by the carrier operations. Anyways this whole Kuznetsov operation will serve valuable for future carriers.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:49 am



    It makes more sense to fly from Syria than from the aircraft carrier. since any plane that takeoff
    from the aircraft carrier can only carry 20% or bit more of its load capacity in weapons.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  kvs on Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:59 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    It makes more sense to fly from Syria than from the aircraft carrier.  since any plane that takeoff
    from the aircraft carrier can only carry 20% or bit more of its load capacity in weapons.

    Very good point. All those yapping about how Russia is failing to "learn" carrier operations are full of it.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:13 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:

    It makes more sense to fly from Syria than from the aircraft carrier.  since any plane that takeoff
    from the aircraft carrier can only carry 20% or bit more of its load capacity in weapons.

    Very good point.  All those yapping about how Russia is failing to "learn" carrier operations are full of it.

    Why? They failed in the short-term. The sailed half way around the globe, lost a plane and the carrier is now disabled for fixed-wing use.
    That's hardly an accomplishment and beats the point of deploying a carrier in the first place.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:26 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:

    It makes more sense to fly from Syria than from the aircraft carrier.  since any plane that takeoff
    from the aircraft carrier can only carry 20% or bit more of its load capacity in weapons.

    Very good point.  All those yapping about how Russia is failing to "learn" carrier operations are full of it.

    Why? They failed in the short-term. The sailed half way around the globe, lost a plane and the carrier is now disabled for fixed-wing use.
    That's hardly an accomplishment and beats the point of deploying a carrier in the first place.

    Let me now review this, so according to the reports, the Mig29 that crashed did so because it was out of fuel...because it was loitering while the deck crew was trying to fix the second arresting cable that snapped after first wave of landings?

    There's a huge individual failure at the helm of the Kuz which cost them a lot. There clearly an issue with the leadership, which may or may not be related with the culture of secrecy that still prevails within the Russian military. Basically IMO this is clearly a logistics issue made worse by lack of preparedness of of the commander and communication flaws within the echelons.


    That's a bigger issue than failing "in short term', you can repair the hooking cable, you can even procure a new mig, but you can't mend these C2 flaws and echelon problems.

    NB: But at least we know now that the Mig29 wasn't at fault, so yeah that got cleared up at least.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:52 pm

    Something special tonight.

    T72B/89 gets attacked twice, with one grazing shot and a direct hit on hull. On both counts the hits looks very underwhelming. First hit is clearly a miss, the second is a hit without aftermath, although there's K5 on the hull area attacked.

    Suqur al Sahara is showing poor awareness though.

    grazing shot. Hits dirt first. Miss.

    Full contact shot, Hull, no secondary.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:18 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Something special tonight.

    T72B/89 gets attacked twice, with one grazing shot and a direct hit on hull. On both counts the hits looks very underwhelming. First hit is clearly a miss, the second is a hit without aftermath, although there's K5 on the hull area attacked.

    Suqur al Sahara is showing poor awareness though.

    grazing shot. Hits dirt first. Miss.

    Full contact shot, Hull, no secondary.

    Nothing happened, no penetration. Although the crew may suffer light injuries. Video cuts short for a reason.
    Crew's SA is terrible No

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:28 pm

    Wtf did that T-72B just survive a TOW to the hull? You know they could have totally spotted that goat molester after he shot if they had some infantry on watch. Why wasn't the T-72B moving after it got hit? Maybe the TOW did penetrate, it probably didn't hit the auto loader.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:39 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Something special tonight.

    T72B/89

    T-72B/89? T-72B 1989?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:44 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:Wtf did that T-72B just survive a TOW to the hull? You know they could have totally spotted that goat molester after he shot if they had some infantry on watch. Why wasn't the T-72B moving after it got hit? Maybe the TOW did penetrate, it probably didn't hit the auto loader.

    First hit was probably a graze and the crew went out to avoid potential cook off instead of conducting BDA. Then idiot TC gets inside and tried probably to conduct BDA and Counterfire.

    Enter second TOW hit. Which amounted to same result and TC getting out (end of the video). It's simply idiots too scared to conduct actual basic battle tasks.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #11

    Post  Khepesh on Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:01 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:Wtf did that T-72B just survive a TOW to the hull? You know they could have totally spotted that goat molester after he shot if they had some infantry on watch. Why wasn't the T-72B moving after it got hit? Maybe the TOW did penetrate, it probably didn't hit the auto loader.
    In very general terms, and putting aside airpower in this case, the history of Arab battlefield defeats is a history of failure to properly use tanks. IDF should have been wiped out at "Valley of Tears" by Syrians, but they inflicted crushing defeat due to superior skills. It was same for Egyptians towards end of 1973 war when they could not withstand General Tal and his tank brigade. Why they have not learnt these very hard and bitter lessons is a mystery, tho SAA have shown great skills using tanks in urban warfare, so they have the ability, but.....

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