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    Development of Ekranoplans

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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:28 pm

    I've read the history of Tibet. Whatever justification, the PLA battled with Tibetans in 1954.
    The Dalai Lama hoped that there won't be any oppression & had to escape in disguise when he got disillusioned & was about to be captured. FYI, he still wants wider autonomy, not independence.
    Back to the topic:
    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/smp/okeanskii-hiscnik-boevoi-ekranoplan-rossii-ustroit-ohotu-na-podlodki-ogaio-5be427fdf9529e00aa808223?&from=feed
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:02 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:I've read the history of Tibet. Whatever justification, the PLA battled with Tibetans in 1954.
    The Dalai Lama hoped that there won't be any oppression & had to escape in disguise when he got disillusioned & was about to be captured. FYI, he still wants wider autonomy, not independence.

    First US should give a good example/ full autonomy many of its states so no FBI, CIA or IRS inside, no US politics about gay rights inside, Chinese, Venezuelan, Cuban or Russian observers on elections to detect usual US frauds (vide Bernie Sanders) free (Chinese sponsored media) , grants on Russian , Cuban and Chines universities for future politicians an journalists, communist parties have all unofficial but real media support. What about that?

    Indeed lest get back to ekranoplans thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
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    Hole

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:25 am


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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:31 pm


    looks good but I just wonder if ekranoplans will have military or only transport / SAR application
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    Hole

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:12 pm

    All of the above. Plus ASW.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:02 pm

    Hole wrote:All of the above. Plus ASW.

    ell faster then any corvette true and both range and speed then SAR helo
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    Gibraltar

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Gibraltar on Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:13 pm

    Very fashinating items but last kind of things to spend big money in a moment of navy extreme needs for modern units in basic roles.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:16 pm

    Gibraltar wrote:Very fashinating items but last kind of things to spend big money in a moment of navy extreme needs for modern units in basic roles.


    depending what are extreme needs now? small ASW corvettes? missile ships?
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:17 pm

    These multi-role craft actually will save $ as they can do jobs of MPA/ISR/ASW/S&R aircraft, missile/patrol/transport ships, while hard to detect & destroy. They may carry UUVs/UAVs as well. And they can move between fleets faster by flying over land w/o the need of going via the other seas. In the North & over icy lakes & rivers, they won't need icebreakers.
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    Gibraltar

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Gibraltar on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:52 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Gibraltar wrote:Very fashinating items but last kind of things to spend big money in a moment of navy extreme needs for modern units in basic roles.


    depending what are extreme needs now? small ASW corvettes? missile ships?

    Carriers, cruisers, destroiers, at least 2 full battle groups + some reserve. Even in best hypotesis they revive the third Kirov and won't need other cruisers for two decades, they need a couple of modern carriers leaving Kuznetsov for mediterranean theatre. And at least 7-8 active modern destroyers. Gorshkov class is an almost already outdated design with only 1 unit in active service. I think they need to complete first their surface fleet and only then dedicate themselfs in exotics crafts
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:22 am

    Carriers, cruisers, destroyers, at least 2 full battle groups + some reserve. Even in best hypothesis they revive the third Kirov and won't need other cruisers for two decades, they need a couple of modern carriers leaving Kuznetsov for Mediterranean theater.
    All those ships take more $ & time to build, maintain & operate than ekranoplans; they don't absolutely need a CBG in the Med. Sea now nor elsewhere in the foreseeable future. For that, their economy must be on a par with Japan's, with global interests to defend.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:57 pm

    Gibraltar wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Gibraltar wrote:Very fashinating items but last kind of things to spend big money in a moment of navy extreme needs for modern units in basic roles.


    depending what are extreme needs now? small ASW corvettes?  missile ships?

    Carriers, cruisers, destroiers, at least 2 full battle groups + some reserve. Even in best hypotesis they revive the third Kirov and won't need other cruisers for two decades, they need a couple of modern carriers leaving Kuznetsov for mediterranean theatre. And at least 7-8 active modern destroyers. Gorshkov class is an almost already outdated design with only 1 unit in active service. I think they need to complete first their surface fleet and only then dedicate themselfs in exotics crafts

    well why would you need carriers when you cannot keep your backyard safe? First of all why dilemma erkanoplanes or ships. Russia needs effective means to detect/destroy subs. US SSBNs are the main navel thereat for Russia not CSGs. Erkanoplanes can (but not only them f course) be a good platform to ASW and SAR operations over Pacific/Arctic seas.

    Cheap in maintenance, faster than helicopters, range like long range aircraft. Why Mediterranean needs CSG? for Syria like wars you dont need anything top. To fight with NATO there? regardless what you gonna send youre dead. If you look for naval confrontation.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:28 am

    The fundamental problem with Ekranoplans is that they operate most efficiently at very low altitudes... which limits their top speed, and their fuel efficiency when using jet engines.

    Very simply for most jet powered aircraft operating at medium to high altitudes means operating in cold thin air where jet engines are much more efficient and the drag is lower so higher speeds are easier to achieve. Also there are no storms at 15 thousand metres while flying at 15 metres there are plenty of storms and indeed freak waves that could spell disaster.

    For any subsonic mission like transport or carrying enormous loads it makes sense, but much of the time a more conventional aircraft design would probably make rather more sense.

    Regarding an MPA design where the aircraft could actually land on the water surface and drop dipping sonar to find enemy vessels that would be a serious money saver because disposable Bouys are expensive because they need a reasonable level of sensitivity... whereas a reusable dipping sonar can be super expensive because it will be reused multiple times...
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:37 pm

    One is sure, there are programs to build ekranoplanes. How they will be used this is another question. SAR/ASW would be most interesting potential applications:

    - enormous range/fuel efficiency more than any aircraft of its size

    - decent speed - much higher than any existing helo - 500-750 km/h

    - can land on water (at least Russian ones could;-)


    SAR to getquick to sinking ship and pick up crew is clear, ASW - torpedos can do nothing against it (not sure about sub-harpoons for something flying with speed 700km/h ;-) ,can have anything torpedos, bombs, buoys...search equipment .


    Attack version? this depends on what navy needs. Imagine with 8 ZIrcons and can get to position 600km away form shore base in 1 hr or less. 22800 needs for thsi 10-12 hours with max speed.



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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:59 pm

    It can also lay mines, destroy mines, drop/pick up SF & patrol/enforce EEZs. In the Antarctic, it can fly over its icy coast & glaciers faster with more cargo than planes between stations.

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