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    Development of Ekranoplans

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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:05 pm

    Why Russia again needs military ekranoplans
    https://vz.ru/society/2018/8/1/934910.print.html

    They can also perform some missions now done by tiltrotors.

    hoom

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  hoom on Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:07 am

    Charly015 has pics of a model with missiles http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/08/ekranoplanos-de-combate-partir-de-2020.html



    Apparently from IMDS 2013 but an interesting concept.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:11 am

    Rescue ekranoplan "Chaika" with a mass of about 50 T
    http://www.ng.ru/news/626083.html?print=Y

    I'm waiting for its prototype pictures!

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201707141733-acko.htm

    https://ria.ru/arms/20170710/1498179442.html

    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20170710/1498181850.html
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    dino00

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  dino00 on Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:26 am

    Shock Wave-craft: horror flying above the crests of waves

    Russia has everything necessary for the revival of a unique vehicle

    Alexei Leonkov, military expert of the magazine "Arsenal of the Fatherland"

    https://zvezdaweekly.ru/news/t/2018917911-CoYQH.html
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:53 am





    They should reviwe this one russia russia russia Italina design Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil





    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartini_Beriev_VVA-14












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    GarryB

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:47 am

    To be honest I always thought that Bartini design was brilliant... I mean just the aircushion undercarriage so it can land on snow or ice or water or land and anything in between... though lack of wheels and brakes would make the landing and takeoff runs quite long but who cares?

    Big high bypass cold air turbofans blowing high volumes of air under its wings should have made it rather better too.

    hoom

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  hoom on Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:27 am

    It did have undercarriage though
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:To be honest I always thought that Bartini design was brilliant... I mean just the aircushion undercarriage so it can land on snow or ice or water or land and anything in between... though lack of wheels and brakes would make the landing and takeoff runs quite long but who cares?

    Big high bypass cold air turbofans blowing high volumes of air under its wings should have made it rather better too.


    It supposed to fly up to 8000m but I am not sure how much ti would be complicating construction. But as ekranoplan cold be god weapon for ASW. topedo,mines cannot harm it Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil flies faster then chopper and has way longer range...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:05 am

    It did have undercarriage though

    It did, but if you look at the photo of it in parts on the ground where the large main floats are the underneath opens down and acts like a skirt for a hovercraft... so it can operate from ice or snow and water... for taking off on water it greatly reduces friction to hover on a cushion of air first...

    The final aircraft was supposed to be vertical take off... they were developing it in steps...

    They had a version with floats to land like a normal sea plane but found at speeds of more than 35km/h it nosedived into the water... obviously not good... as the floats themselves are basically balloons and forcing them underwater tended to burst them... which obviously makes the nose diving worse...

    If you look at these three images you can see the VVA-14 first on the ground showing wheeled undercarriage, and then on the water with floats inflated and then in the air with floats and gear retracted...









    This is the VVA-14PS, which is only a drawing but it was the end goal... a VTOL VVA-14...



    And this was another prototype sitting on the water with lifting cushion not inflated.



    And here is the same prototype in hovercraft mode:



    Which of course means it can land and takeoff at any speed due to low friction, and of course it can land on any relatively flat surface, because a hovercraft mode means its weight is spread over a huge area so it can operate from water... deep mud... snow, or anything that is relatively flat...


    Last edited by GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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    GarryB

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:17 am

    To quote from the book about Bartini:

    In 1976 14М1П transferred to testing showing after output on dynamic pillow camera much lifted nose, maintaining movement. Trouble started when for the first time dramatically reduced the engine speed boost. Machine with this far down in the water, and it happened the water was poured DWI motors. Revealed low reliability system control.

    However, test confirmed the opportunity use dynamic air pillows for take-off and landing aircraft with excited water surface.

    When tests 14М1П was installed what effect dynamic air podesk manifested at altitudes of 10-12 meters at medium]i aerodynamic the wing chord of 10.75 meter, and the spacecraft altitude alignment 8 meters air the pillow was already GAK dense and sustainable, the pilot Yu Kupriyanov repeatedly asked guide allow throw the handle management the machine of the village itself.

    This feature aerodynamic scheme 14М1П would the wig VTOL-2500, medium aerodynamic wing chord which reached 250 meters fly using effect location the land on altitudes of 150-200 meters. On such heights you safe to fly over storm sea and easily to get around occurred on the way obstacles including ships.

    So it was intended as a Wing In Ground effect aircraft, but could climb to 250m which meant it could fly over shipping or storm seas (WIG aircraft are not quick turners so climbing is often the best way to avoid obstacles...)

    They called the hovercraft skirt a Dynamic Pillow...

    For much more interesting stuff... can I suggest you open a Yandex translation page... ie :

    https://translate.yandex.com/translate

    And click on the site option at the top and then paste the link below into the dialog box and click the translate button:

    http://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/1034335/Yakubovich_-_Samolety_R._L._Bartini.html

    It is rather interesting...
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:47 am

    GarryB wrote:To quote from the book about Bartini:

    +++

    It is rather interesting...

    Yup, this guy really knew stuff. And his ekranoplan had truly Italian design ;-)
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:21 pm

    Aerodynamic testing of the model of a promising intercontinental heavy ground-effect vehicle began in Zhukovsky near Moscow . They are conducted by the Zhukovsky Central Aero-Hydrodynamic Institute.
    The tests of the model are carried out in the framework of the project of creating a heavy intercontinental WIG. According to the characteristics laid down in the project, the aircraft must be able to transport cargo weighing up to 500 tons to a distance of up to 6,000 kilometers at a speed of at least 400 kilometers per hour. The purpose of these tests is to improve the aerodynamic layout of the prototype WIG.
    It is planned to create a prototype model of an Orlan airplanes armed with rockets in Russia as part of the state armament program for the period up to 2027. This was announced to journalists by Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov.
    "There is an Orlan research and development project in the State Weapons Program of 2018–2027, which provides for the construction of a WIG. A prototype will be created as part of this weapons program, it will carry rocket weapons," said Borisov.
    According to him, the ground effect vehicle will be used to protect the Northern Sea Route, where the infrastructure is poorly developed. "It can patrol, close these areas. The inland seas too: the Caspian Sea, the Black Sea," said the Deputy Prime Minister.
    Borisov added that the new ekranoplan can also be a patrol vehicle for saving crews of ships
    .
    http://naukatehnika.com/v-zhukovskom-ispyityivayut-model-ekranoplana.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:12 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:[i]Aerodynamic testing of the model of a promising intercontinental heavy ground-effect vehicle began in Zhukovsky near Moscow . They are conducted by the Zhukovsky Central Aero-Hydrodynamic Institute.


    Now Kim can really invade USA lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Hole

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:25 am

    He wouldn´t do it. Then he would have to rebuild the whole mess. Twisted Evil
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:59 pm

    China could buy dozens, if not 100s of them & invade Taiwan, Philippines & Vietnam to make the S. China Sea a Chinese lake & start colonizing SE Asia, alleviating fears of Chinese expansion into Siberia.
    Then Russia will have extra $ to build up her navy.
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    Hole

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:20 pm

    Why should the chinese attack their trading partners?

    Just while Amiland does invade countries all the time it doesn´t mean that civilized countries would do the same.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:13 pm

    Hole wrote:Why should the chinese attack their trading partners?

    Just while Amiland does invade countries all the time it doesn´t mean that civilized countries would do the same.

    They can colonize, culturally. As strongest economy, will soon be cultural center where small players inevitably will be gravitating. Something like middle easterner to Germany on Merkels invitation Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:01 pm

    Hole wrote:Why should the chinese attack their trading partners?
    Civilization & organized warfare r 2 sides of the same coin. The USSR & Nazi Germany were also trading partners, but planned war on each other resulting in the Great Patriotic War. The Mongols, Chinese, Apaches, Comanches & Mexicans traded & raided each other too.
    The kingdom of Hawaii also traded with the USA. Trade between states doesn't prevent disputes from escalating to wars & the smaller 1s being swallowed as a result.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:47 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Hole wrote:Why should the chinese attack their trading partners?
    Civilization & organized warfare r 2 sides of the same coin. The USSR & Nazi Germany were also trading partners, but planned war on each other resulting in the Great Patriotic War. The Mongols, Chinese, Apaches, Comanches & Mexicans traded & raided each other too.
    The kingdom of Hawaii also traded with the USA. Trade between states doesn't prevent disputes from escalating to wars & the smaller 1s being swallowed as a result.

    In reality, everyone trades with everyone they have a connection with (and these days, that means everyone with everyone else).  That is the normal state of affairs, and has been since our species of evolved primate fisrt learned how to wrap themselves in animal skins and fashion weapons and tools from broken rocks...

    The reality of trade doesn't impose any constraints on geopolitical ambition however, and the likelihood of conflict usually boils down to a cost vs risk calculation, governmental forms of governance (demo-crazy or not) notwithstanding.  I don't see any real risk of China turning belligerent like the US has become because they simply have more to gain by engaging in mercantilism than by resorting to aggression.  I cannot imagine a single scenario where the CCP politburo would sign-off on aggressive military adventurism against a trading partner.  They simply have so much to lose and comparatively little to gain.

    If anyone disputes this, a little thought experiment would be in order.  Put yourself in shoes of Xi Jinping and come up with a scenario that would make you order your military to launch aggression against a neighbor.  The necessary caveat is that this must be a unprovoked aggression, not a response to anothers action.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:51 am

    I would defend my interests, incl. going to war to create & maintain the new reality. Recall how & why China took Tibet in 1954, S. Vietnamese held islands in 1974 & invaded her recent protege SRV in 1979. They taught Hanoi, the USSR, & themselves good lessons!
    http://www.ng.ru/world/2018-10-31/1_7344_china.html?print=Y


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:45 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:I would defend my interests, incl. going to war to create & maintain the new reality. Recall how & why China took Tibet in 1954, S. Vietnamese held islands in 1974 & invaded her recent protege SRV in 1979. They taught Hanoi, the USSR, & themselves good lessons!

    S the o last intervention was in 1979 on their border right? Sinc ethen they started to trade. US is still at war in all continents. How many millions people was killed in Chinese interventions last 25 years?




    BTW NG is pro US libreast media no wonder that they always write form"estern values" perspective. . Even though for west Russians are second class people to be either slaves or exterminated.
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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:47 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Recall how & why China took Tibet in 1954....

    I think you need a little history lesson...  Tibet has been recognised as Chinese territory since at least the 1700s, and this is enshrined in all current treaties between the Great Powers.  Even when China collapsed in 1912 with the end of the Qing dynasty, and Tibet went its own way by virtue of distance and lack of a central power, not a single Western nation recognised an independent Tibet. When China recovered in post-colonial period (ie Europeans left, the Japs defeated in WWII, and the Nationalists defeated by Mao) the return of central unified rule made it inevitable that the Communists would restore authority.

    The "long suffering Tibetan people" is a myth spread by Tibetan exiles and promulgated by Western propagandists. The reforms intended to transform Tibet from a backwards medieval feudal society were not always easy, and the Chinese admit many mistakes were made.  But there were no mass killings or "genocide", and actions that be called "repression" only started after the Dalai's sect revolted in 1959 with CIA assistance. Did the exiles really think that they could call on the Capitalists for help in overthrowing Chinese authority and then not expect a backlash when the revolt fails? What would the US have done if Californians had instigated a communist revolt during the McCarthy years?

    The only people who have issue with Tibet being part of a unified China are western propagandists and the lunatic fringe of Tibetan militant nationalists (who are stooges of the Dalai lama and his octogenarian cliche).  Economic development, fuelled by Han Chinese investment, will cement Chinas' claim once and for all, and win the hearts and minds of the Tibetan people.  Nay-sayers can simply stew in their own juices for all I (or the Chinese) care.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:51 am

    The same western "freedom loving" liberals who thought Myanmar just needed a woman in charge like Aung San Suu Kyi and everything would be good there... except that it isn't... they might even take back her peace prize... but then they didn't take back Obamas when he didn't end up doing anything of note either.

    hoom

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  hoom on Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:09 am

    Oh, Obama did plenty of note: he started 7 wars.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:11 am

    hoom wrote:Oh, Obama did plenty of note: he started 7 wars.

    This is minimum to get a noble piss prize. BTW 7 stands in cabalic umorology for infinity right?

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