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    Development of Ekranoplans

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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun 29 Oct 2017, 01:41

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Russia is developing a superheavy ekranoplan for the military.

    Now we're talking. I was expecting they would go for small ekranoplans first...go BIG or go home Cool

    However, not everyone is happy. Just like it's Soviet predecessor, some think it will just be a big money pit

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2914765.html

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun 29 Oct 2017, 02:44

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Russia is developing a superheavy ekranoplan for the military.

    Now we're talking. I was expecting they would go for small ekranoplans first...go BIG or go home Cool

    However, not everyone is happy. Just like it's Soviet predecessor, some think it will just be a big money pit

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2914765.html


    Ehhhh... 

    They may want to sort out rest of the Navy before chasing exotic stuff
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun 29 Oct 2017, 11:57

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Russia is developing a superheavy ekranoplan for the military.

    Now we're talking. I was expecting they would go for small ekranoplans first...go BIG or go home Cool

    However, not everyone is happy. Just like it's Soviet predecessor, some think it will just be a big money pit

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2914765.html


    Ehhhh... 

    They may want to sort out rest of the Navy before chasing exotic stuff

    Depends what's "sorting our" process of updating, development never ends... From the other hand heavy ekraniplan vna:
    - be used as dual purpose technology (transport, cargo planes)
    - be used as fast rescue/transport craft
    - marines vehicle
    -ASW much faster with longer range then helo
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 19:52

    They also don't need icebreakers & could be based/used on big rivers & lakes. http://inosmi.ru/russia/20150820/229738283.html
    China & India may buy some too, since it'll be more capable than their new amphibians: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwin5rSPgJnXAhUIqFQKHdYsDZwQqQIINigAMAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fviral%2F386691-china-amphibious-ag600-tests%2F&usg=AOvVaw09q00W0IOR6J_O2yBVcG3M

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/slideshows/infrastructure/indian-navy-to-buy-12-amphibious-rescue-aircraft-from-japan/a-multi-purpose-amphibian/slideshow/55287204.cms

    http://www.livemint.com/Companies/uYTUrW9uQr6d20SnJAkelL/Who-needs-a-runway-SpiceJet-wants-to-land-in-sea-fields.html
    The range of the 600T "Rescuer" will be several thousand km, capable to sit on the water & flat solid surface..", & is intended for SAR, marine landing & supply.
    It's compare, the famous "Caspian Monster" [550T]; the AN-225 is 285T empty & 640T MTOW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225_Mriya#Specifications_.28An-225_Mriya.29

    But I wonder, if it passes directly over small ships/people/polar bears at full speed, will they survive?


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 20:29; edited 2 times in total
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 19:57

    Tsavo Lion wrote:But I wonder, if it passes directly over small ships/people/polar bears at full speed, will they survive?

    Ekranoblast lol1
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 21:39

    Tsavo Lion wrote:.................
    But I wonder, if it passes directly over small ships/people/polar bears at full speed, will they survive?

    Imagine standing on the runway while strategic airlifter is taking off.

    Same thing only worse because on average ekranoplans have twice as many engines as aircraft of comparable length...
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 21:24

    They'll use only 2 engines on front pylons when cruising & perhaps 1 engine on the tail. The wake doesn't look very big on the pics, but a small boat may not avoid being damaged or worse!
    Supposedly the giant "Rescuer" will feature a wingspan more than 100 feet wider than the one found on Caspian Sea Monster, which actually makes sense considering it's planned for the type to include traditional landing gear as well as its boat-shaped hull. This amphibian format would theoretically allow the aircraft to fly at higher altitudes, outside of ground effect, but with far less efficiency, while also giving it access to traditional airstrips. Many Soviet-era ekranoplans also had the goal of flying at higher altitudes as well as in their standard WIG mode. http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/15542/russia-supposedly-bringing-back-giant-ekranoplans-for-arctic-missions
    That makes a lot of sense, also to be able to fly like a regular plane.
    4 mods of travel: flat land, water surface, just above water/ice, & well above land/water. It could take off from Magadan on the Okhotsk Sea, run in the WIG mode, climb to overfly Kamchatka peninsula, then again descent & fly on to Petropavlovsk. The same with islands in the Arctic or from Black Sea via Turkey to Med. Sea & back, or Caspian Sea via Iran to Arabian Sea & back.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 21:55

    Tsavo Lion wrote:They'll use only 2 engines on front pylons when cruising & perhaps 1 engine on the tail. .......

    I dunno, this photo says 8 engines:

    http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/foundry/image/?q=70&w=1440&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftimedotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2017%2F10%2Fkhadha11515.jpg%3Fquality%3D85


    Also according to that article ''Seagul'' design is finalized and will be starting tests in 2022:




    Although TheDrive.com is pretty much the shittiest source out there...
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 22:34

    The 6 engines r turned off after the WIG mode is reached. It'll run out of fuel otherwise! Perhaps this type will use 4-6 front engines while in the airplane mode.

    hoom

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  hoom on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 02:06

    Is it wrong that I ran into this pic

    and immediately started dreaming of a UKSK armed modern version Suspect Embarassed
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 17:03

    Can the UKSK even be used at those speeds?
    They probly need to be angled, and maybe use different missiles.

    hoom

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  hoom on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 01:48

    Probably not.
    I'm not at all seriously suggesting it, its just what came into my head clown
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue 06 Feb 2018, 23:30

    Last year article: http://inosmi.ru/social/20171117/240785601.html

    If missile tubes face forward or backward, CM could be launched at ANY SPEED!
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    LMFS

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  LMFS on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 19:34

    This is an amazing concept, be it in ASW, transport, anti-ship or land attack roles. Low-observable, with long range, heavy weapons and the capacity to stay for long periods floating on the sea it combines much of the best of aircraft and ships. I remain convinced, the time will come for such an idea to materialize into a successful product.

    Not sure it would work, but if this concept could be made lightly-submersible (say to 10 meters depth) in order just to "disappear" from the surface of the sea, you could even think of having the stealthiness of a sub and the speed of a plane Razz Added to existing and prospective Russian AShM capable of striking from stand-off distances it would be exceedingly difficult for a surface group to counter such a weapon. A sub is exposed to retaliation when it launches its missiles since it has very limited mobility and has to rely on escaping detection after the attack, but this one would simply fly away or hide somewhere else, most ASW platforms are not even faster, fighters could be easily outranged. Torpedos or missiles could de dodged by changing element. Due to its size it could even have AD missiles onboard so the incoming missiles could be shot down and their carriers put at risk, in the improvable case that they could find the source of the attack.
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    Isos

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Isos on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 20:43

    hoom wrote:Is it wrong that I ran into this pic

    and immediately started dreaming of a UKSK armed modern version Suspect Embarassed

    What would happen if it meets a big wave ? scratch

    hoom

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  hoom on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 21:02

    Well you wouldn't just meet one big wave suddenly, you'd rise as the swell increases.
    From recollection can fly several hundred meters altitude, just loses a bunch of efficiency.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 21:12

    hoom wrote:Well you wouldn't just meet one big wave suddenly, you'd rise as the swell increases.
    From recollection can fly several hundred meters altitude, just loses a bunch of efficiency.




    Unless is designed by Bartini   lol1 lol1 lol1

    Ekranoplan flying on 8km ? et voila

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartini_Beriev_VVA-14

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    LMFS

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  LMFS on Wed 20 Jun 2018, 14:46

    Isos wrote:
    What would happen if it meets a big wave ? scratch

    Well, they fly several meters above the sea (like 4 to 12 normally) and depending on the model, even higher. On top of that the aircraft in movement has a momentum that can be used to go higher to "jump" an obstacle if need be.

    Even when they can sustain very heavy sea states, if they expect a very heavy storm they can always use their excellent mobility to avoid it... much better than a ship actually.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed 20 Jun 2018, 18:42

    Or at least some of them could climb & fly above the weather, if needed. Ekranoplans can also be used in Antarctica better than planes to move cargo & people across it, as most of the 6th continent is covered in ice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_stations_in_Antarctica#Map
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Antarctica#Roads
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed 20 Jun 2018, 22:05

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Or at least some of them could climb & fly above the weather, if needed. Ekranoplans can also be used in Antarctica better than planes to move cargo & people across it, as most of the 6th continent is covered in ices

    true but still some time to thsi moment though Not in my lifetime anyway Smile
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    LMFS

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  LMFS on Wed 20 Jun 2018, 22:44

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Or at least some of them could climb & fly above the weather, if needed. Ekranoplans can also be used in Antarctica better than planes to move cargo & people across it, as most of the 6th continent is covered in ice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_stations_in_Antarctica#Map
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Antarctica#Roads

    A big advantage of WIG is apparently that you can make the wings much smaller and the plane much bigger. At least at the bigger end of their size, where these things could act as an ultra-fast corvette, you cannot really fly higher than some meters above the sea. Making them smaller is of course an interesting option, but takes away some of the best advantages of ekranoplans, that they can not only fly economically but actually pack a huge punch for a plane (hell, they could be even turned into strategic carriers!) and would force you to design wings big enough to fly conventionally.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Development of Ekranoplans

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed 20 Jun 2018, 23:08

    Perhaps new morphing wings could be designed so they can change their shape/size for more efficient flight out of WIG mode.

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