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    Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:07 pm

    Gazputin wrote:one side says we need ships to be overloaded with maximum weapons and consequently crew comfort doesn't matter so much
    ie for "total war"

    vs

    lets sacrifice maximum weapons for mission adaptability (including non military)
    and give the crew some more comfort on "peacetime patrols" …
    (add to that the cost pressures of running navies - govts like to see "multi-purpose" ships …. )

    this ship is skewed to the latter approach ….

    if a real war broke out … would you want to be on a ship this size ? I wouldn't
    you'd be blown out of the water in 45 minutes ….


    Everyone here likes to rant about "power projection"

    But it's not easy to project anything with overstuffed short range ships with miserable crews

    Especially if decades go by without naval warfare

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:27 am

    Indeed, and while you design your navy primarily to deliver force to impose your will... whether that is to get you what you need or merely what you are entitled to under international law, it is also about projecting image and brand... and unless your politicians are idiots you should be more propaganda showing the world there is an alternative to my way or the highway western culture... and alternative that wont ram its rules and morals and ideology down your throat and demand you think the way they do.

    Let me be clear... the Russian navy is not the worlds policemen and should never be so... that is not their job and shouldn't be their job.

    Modular design of their new ships and their upgrades should allow very well armed very well equipped ships be built... having good sensors and the weapons to do something about any situation they come across depends on the size of the vessel... most sensors and weapon launchers are supposed to become more and more multifunctional and over time they will become more so... of course if they have a UKSK launcher and they only ever put anti sub ballistic rockets in it then it is not going to be so flexible in operation, but as long as there is a mix of weapons generally it should be fine... of course the bigger the ship and the more modules fitted and the bigger the sensors fitted the more multi role and comfortable they should be... a Corvette could travel around the world in the sense that you can ride around the country on a motor bike, but unless you work for Top Gear and have ten SUVs full of gear and equipment going with you you will not be super comfortable... unless you stay in 5 star hotels everywhere you stop. It is the US that has bases around the world so that is really only an option for them and selected cronies.

    In ten years time when the fleet is bigger and trade ties will be improved with regular visits then agreements with foreign countries about regular use of port areas can be agreed, but right now it probably does not happen often enough to warrant such things except in war zones like Tartus in Syria and Sevastopol.... in Russia Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:41 am

    At corvette level having a big open rear deck and the levels beneath it empty where you can put cargo containers is being flexible, not being unarmed.

    They need the rear deck able to be clear to land or take off the helicopter, but while the helo is stowed in its hangar or flying on operation, with the current layout they could have containers with effectively UKSK launchers present to make the ship much more capable... if the ship is on its own it could launch its helo which might just climb vertically in the air and look for enemy vessels ahead over the radar horizon that limits the ships view... if it spots a target it can note its position and then drop back down below the radar horizon and turn and fly off at an angle so any long range SAM fired at it will have trouble finding it... meanwhile below the corvette is opening the landing deck for the helo and raising missiles from a shipping crate or two to launch some missiles at the ships that have been detected... 20km away to port the helicopter can now climb again and check the results of the attack.

    For a long range voyage or to support landing operations that space under the deck with shipping containers could carry ammo or fuel or equipment... for long range patrols it could carry some Ka-226 helicopters and some drones, or some small high speed boats to chase down pirates... the space makes the vessel flexible because it was not committed to being one thing or another... they could put 3-5 TOR vehicles that could be raised up onto the deck to increase the air defence capacity of the ship for a particular mission... you could have on board a Barnaul air defence management system and a dozen men standing on deck with Verba missiles and cued optical sights looking for air threats too.

    This is not an end to Russia covering its ships with weapons, this is Russia trying to make the weapon loadouts flexible and adaptable... of the ships they have introduced the upgraded and improved models generally have heavier armament and are bigger heavier ships... it is a normal natural progression till they get too heavy and then some things are not fitted.
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    owais.usmani

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    Post  owais.usmani Today at 3:05 pm

    Any body has a very clear cut schematic of this class? It looks like the missile tubes are only in front, none at back?

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    hoom

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    Post  hoom Today at 3:29 pm

    It has containerised missiles in the back via the heli-lift (& in case of Kalibr its them or the heli)
    There's a video upthread somewhere with a bunch of CGI showing interior stuff.

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