Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Share
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3433
    Points : 3471
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 76
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:40 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:That would require making the ship bigger, the ship has what it's going to get the only way they can add more weapons is by removing utility and the only way they will get more utility is by removing what few weapons it has.

    20386? 22160 or both?  in any case perhaps is is better to go on fully modular design with many container bays and very few weapons then poor defense weapons and moderate modules' space? OK but I am not admiral Smile





    Peŕrier wrote:
    Could you be so kind to list any warship class in the World with same displacement +- 200 tonnes more heavily armed?

    French ! any of them are always better. Rich man's fleet for conquering and controlling world oceans!

    Peŕrier

    Posts : 288
    Points : 288
    Join date : 2017-10-15

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Peŕrier on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:52 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Very well let us look at another Russian ship, a frigate class the Grigorovich, now the frigate is about 400 tons heavier thats not huge in ship mass so they are fairly similar sized ships.

    one is 3600ish the other is about 4k even fully load.

    I am copy to copy and past their weapons exactly so no one can say "American BS"

    for the frigate

    1 × 100 mm A-190 Arsenal naval gun
    1 × 8 UKSK 3S14 VLS cells for Kalibr and Oniks and Zircon
    2 × 12 3S90M Shtil-1 VLS cells
    2 × Kashtan CIWS
    8 × Igla-1 (SA-16)
    2 × 2 533 mm torpedo tubes
    1 × RBU-6000 rocket launcher

    1 Chopper (also has ASW ability)


    for the "corvette"

    1 × 100 mm A-190
    2 × 30 mm AK-630M CIWS
    2 × 14.5 mm MTPU machine guns
    Redut medium-range air defense system (2 × 8 cells)
    Paket-NK anti-torpedo/anti-submarine torpedoes (provided by choppers only)

    2 Choppers

    Kalibers, it can mount these in containers only but then it must sacrifice things to mount them


    OR we can look at their problem frigate

    1 × 130mm Amethyst/Arsenal A-192M naval gun with rate of fire of 45 rds per minute [10]
    16 (2 × Cool UKSK VLS cells fitted with P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26) and/or Kalibr missile system (SS-N-27)
    32 (4 × Cool Redut VLS cells housing 9M96, 9M96M, 9M96D/9M96DM(M2) family of missiles and/or quad-packed 9M100 short range missiles
    2 × Palash CIWS
    2 × 4 330mm torpedo tubes for Paket-NK anti-torpedo/anti-submarine torpedoes
    2 × 14.5mm MTPU pedestal machine guns

    1 Chopper

    Yes this frigate is about 1k tons heavier but again in terms of ship weight that isn't massive infact the Gorshkov's bema is only 4 meters longer then the Derk and it's length is only about 80ft longer then the Derk's. The only reason is weighs 1k more is because of howmuch they packed into it weapon wise.

    Now both frigates out class the Derk in combat ability but the Derk outclasses them in the utility if offers the navy.

    So, apart the not understandable "problem frigate", which is not any known warship class, you are saying that even limiting to only russian ships, a medium caliber gun, around 8 AShM or Land attack missiles, some ASW torpedoes or missiles, around 16 VLSs for AAMs is the standard.

    The "problem frigate", in case it would refer to Gorshkov class, is at around 5400 tonnes at full displacement just a little larger than a 20386 hull, isn't it?

    And the Grigorovich, at a little more than 4000 tonnes at full displacement, is over 600 tonnes larger than a 20386.

    Being allegedly a 20386 displacing 3400 tonnes at full displacement, it means a Grigorovich is at least 17% larger than a 20386.

    Yes, I'm just calling you a cheap troll.


    Last edited by Peŕrier on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7122
    Points : 7216
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:53 pm


    Original idea for Russian corvettes (20 years ago) was to use large number of cheap, easy and quickly built vessels in new situation.

    Well situation changed (yet again) and corvettes (Steregushhi and Gremashii) were neither cheap nor easy and quick to build.

    So they decided to have new corvette do stuff that corvettes should be doing by definition in the first place and to give it modularity.

    And I think it's a good approach. Sub hunting is still absolute priority and Derzkii is 100% suited for that with some extra features should they need them (future proofing basically)

    If they need to deal with surface or land targets they can always have some Buyans or Karakurts tagging along. No shortage of those any time soon.

    Anything else is what they should have frigates for. So they better get cracking

    Peŕrier

    Posts : 288
    Points : 288
    Join date : 2017-10-15

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Peŕrier on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:04 pm

    No, the real problem was the the projects developed in the early 90ies, like the 20380, got too long to be built given both the dilapidated state of most russian yards and the willingness to grant almost any shipyard in Russia its slice from the pie.

    It suffices to have a look at the pace of building at Kaliningrad to understand that giving all the contracts to just one or two yards in whole Russia would have granted the Russian Navy both cheaper and quicker built ships, but it just didn't fit with the political agenda.

    Now almost 20 years have passed from when those projects were finalized, being they the 20380, the 22350 or even the project 995, and time has come to move forward.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7122
    Points : 7216
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:09 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:No, the real problem was the the projects developed in the early 90ies, like the 20380, got too long to be built given both the dilapidated state of most russian yards and the willingness to grant almost any shipyard in Russia its slice from the pie.................

    Doesn't contradict anything I said, big part of the problem right there, ships weren't getting built, simple as that

    Might as well go big

    Peŕrier

    Posts : 288
    Points : 288
    Join date : 2017-10-15

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Peŕrier on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:17 pm

    No, because 20386s are corvettes only in terms of rank of commanding officer and therefore the degree of operational autonomy.

    But in terms of missions, 20386s are long range vessels, what no other corvette in russian navy neither is nor is expected to be.

    In a nutshell, 20386 are ships designed to operate even far from any russian port, naval bases let alone, while anything else classified as a corvette, 20380 , 20385 etc are designed to perform short to medium endurance missions not far away fromrussian shores.

    The 20386 are both very modern ships and designed for offshore operations, what no other existing russian corvette is.
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1084
    Points : 1082
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:23 pm

    it's about under 5k actually unless you start packing in munitions, then that brings the weight up. I literally had to argue with a guy about Full displacement and standard displacement on here, don't even go there. Full displacement is how much weight the ships displaces when in the water WHEN it has all of its munitions supplies etc.

    You are taking into account their full displacement weights verses the Derk's empty we do not know how much a Derk displaces fully in the water fully loaded yet, claling me a troll? you clearly don't understand all that much.

    Derk does not have a full displacement yet since none have been fully loaded and are floating that 36 number is what they think it will be with an empty weight.

    The derk does not have ASW without choppers, the derk does not have missiles without the containers, nothing I said is wrong you can be ignorant if you wish, that is your call.

    PS some education for you

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_(ship)

    When the First derk is put on the water and fully loaded out it will exceed 4k tons btw so that 3600 number isn't all that accurate but that's the number listed so thats what has to be gone by for now


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1084
    Points : 1082
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:29 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:That would require making the ship bigger, the ship has what it's going to get the only way they can add more weapons is by removing utility and the only way they will get more utility is by removing what few weapons it has.

    20386? 22160 or both?  in any case perhaps is is better to go on fully modular design with many container bays and very few weapons then poor defense weapons and moderate modules' space? OK but I am not admiral Smile





    Peŕrier wrote:
    Could you be so kind to list any warship class in the World with same displacement +- 200 tonnes more heavily armed?

    French ! any of them are always better. Rich man's fleet for conquering and controlling world oceans!

    Well has stated the Derk's are weakly armed for a ship of their size but they weren't built to be frontline combat ships, they basically support vessels. you should not compare them to outright combat ships,
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7122
    Points : 7216
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:41 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:.............
    Well has stated the Derk's are weakly armed for a ship of their size but they weren't built to be frontline combat ships, they basically support vessels. you should not compare them to outright combat ships,

    So kinda like Absalon-class but only smaller?
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1084
    Points : 1082
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:43 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:.............
    Well has stated the Derk's are weakly armed for a ship of their size but they weren't built to be frontline combat ships, they basically support vessels. you should not compare them to outright combat ships,

    So kinda like Absalon-class but only smaller?

    Exactly that.

    I think people think me saying "it's weakly armed" is me saying it's a bad ship no it's not a bad ship for the role it's intended for it's a fine ship.

    Tingsay

    Posts : 71
    Points : 75
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Tingsay on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:46 pm

    They could've made Derzkii 1000-2000t larger, with more weapons and 2 multi mission bay area openings. Then they could've forgotten about Grigo/Gorshkov/Lider, And make it the backbone of the entire Russian navy and never look back.

    I seriously love this ship. Weapons don't need to sit on the ship all the freaking time. Multi-role and Modular is the future!
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1084
    Points : 1082
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:53 pm

    Tingsay wrote:They could've made Derzkii 1000-2000t larger, with more weapons and 2 multi mission bay area openings. Then they could've forgotten about Grigo/Gorshkov/Lider, And make it the backbone of the entire Russian navy and never look back.

    I seriously love this ship. Weapons don't need to sit on the ship all the freaking time. Multi-role and Modular is the future!

    Even if they did that it would not equal a Gork's weapon count, has stated prior if you want the utility that is going to cost you weaponry, but if you want weapons that is going to cost you utility, you cannot have a ship at like 5k tons that have the Gork weapon count and Derk's utility ability, that simply cannot be done

    You cannot have one ship does it all, that simply compromises the ship trying to jam everything into one package
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2333
    Points : 2327
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:06 am

    Again the syndrome of "small ships with a litle more space can replace every other ship" ...

    Derzki is 109m and is a corvette. Gorshkov is a frigate and is much better than a corvette.

    If you make it bigger it becomes a Gorshkov.

    Corvettes are supposed to be smaller with smaller crew and smaller endurence just to be cheaper and easier to operate. They are between Karakurt which will be very limited ships but very cheap to operate and gorshkovs which are expensive to operate and used for other tasks.

    If you have all three in black see fleet and you detect a US ship. You send first coast guards with patrol ship to see what's going on.

    Then you send a karakurt and if it doesn't leave and you know you will need to spend more time watching it, you send a Derzki equiped with kalibrs (if it is a sub you send it with anti sub kalibrs) and call back the karakurt.

    If the US ship start acting stupidly you call back the corvette in a safe zone and send a Gorshkov and the karakurt with some medicines (oniks) to join the derzki and put the medicines in the stupid ship togather.


    If a big ship like a frigate or destroyer does this it will be expensive because it is a bigger ship with bigger engines and bigger crew. Only US navy use 1 type of ship for everything and they soend a lot to use an aegis ship to watch another ship.

    And weapons are not the only thing that matters. Radars on a frigate are generaly better than those on a corvette. For steregouchshy I heard the radar is an updated bigger pantsir radar and it uses only the 40km 9M96 missiles while gorshkov can use the 120km.

    Tingsay

    Posts : 71
    Points : 75
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Tingsay on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:07 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Tingsay wrote:They could've made Derzkii 1000-2000t larger, with more weapons and 2 multi mission bay area openings. Then they could've forgotten about Grigo/Gorshkov/Lider, And make it the backbone of the entire Russian navy and never look back.

    I seriously love this ship. Weapons don't need to sit on the ship all the freaking time. Multi-role and Modular is the future!

    Even if they did that it would not equal a Gork's weapon count, has stated prior if you want the utility that is going to cost you weaponry, but if you want weapons that is going to cost you utility, you cannot have a ship at like 5k tons that have the Gork weapon count and Derk's utility ability, that simply cannot be done

    You cannot have one ship does it all, that simply compromises the ship trying to jam everything into one package

    Ah, but who says Derzkii has to equal Gorshkov's weapon count?
    That's were the modularity comes in. They get "modified" before setting out on a mission meaning a fleet of Derzkiis is a fleet of 3 or more different type of specialized ships. Is Gorshkov going to seriously be using Anti-air, anti-sub, anti-ship, land attack in one mission? Technically they can yes, but how likely? Not likely.

    Again, I love this ship Very Happy

    The scenario I stated of a larger Derzkii being the backbone isn't going to work if they don't have larger numbers obviously.


    Last edited by Tingsay on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7122
    Points : 7216
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:08 am

    Tingsay wrote:They could've made Derzkii 1000-2000t larger, with more weapons and 2 multi mission bay area openings. Then they could've forgotten about Grigo/Gorshkov/Lider, And make it the backbone of the entire Russian navy and never look back.
    ..........

    They tried same thing already with Steregushi and Gremashi, it just doesn't work

    They need several different sizes and ranges, no going around it

    Tingsay

    Posts : 71
    Points : 75
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Tingsay on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:11 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tingsay wrote:They could've made Derzkii 1000-2000t larger, with more weapons and 2 multi mission bay area openings. Then they could've forgotten about Grigo/Gorshkov/Lider, And make it the backbone of the entire Russian navy and never look back.
    ..........

    They tried same thing already with Steregushi and Gremashi, it just doesn't work

    They need several different sizes and ranges, no going around it

    Well, steregushi and gremyaschy don't have the size.

    I stated a "larger" Derzkii

    But that's just me Very Happy
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2333
    Points : 2327
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:13 am

    BTW russian ships are far better armed and more armed than french. Just compare a FREMM to a super gorshkov which are the same in length I think or even a smaller gorshkovs

    Tingsay

    Posts : 71
    Points : 75
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Tingsay on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:22 am

    Isos wrote:Again the syndrome of "small ships with a litle more space can replace every other ship" ...

    Derzki is 109m and is a corvette. Gorshkov is a frigate and is much better than a corvette.

    If you make it bigger it becomes a Gorshkov.

    Corvettes are supposed to be  smaller with smaller crew and smaller endurence just to be cheaper and easier to operate. They are between Karakurt which will be very limited ships but very cheap to operate and gorshkovs which are expensive to operate and used for other tasks.

    If you have all three in black see fleet and you detect a US ship. You send first coast guards with patrol ship to see what's going on.

    Then you send a karakurt and if it doesn't leave and you know you will need to spend more time watching it, you send a Derzki equiped with kalibrs (if it is a sub you send it with anti sub kalibrs) and call back the karakurt.

    If the US ship start acting stupidly you call back the corvette in a safe zone and send a Gorshkov and the karakurt with some medicines (oniks) to join the derzki and put the medicines in the stupid ship togather.


    If a big ship like a frigate or destroyer does this it will be expensive because it is a bigger ship with bigger engines and bigger crew. Only US navy use 1 type of ship for everything and they soend a lot to use an aegis ship to watch another ship.

    And weapons are not the only thing that matters. Radars on a frigate are generaly better than those on a corvette. For steregouchshy I heard the radar is an updated bigger pantsir radar and it uses only the 40km 9M96 missiles while gorshkov can use the 120km.

    Your not necessarily disagreeing with me.
    I stated a "larger" Derzii, so basically a Gorshkov(or even larger) with the multi-mission bay area at the back with the new electric propulsion all wrapped up in a stealthy package.
    That would be great for the Russian navy.
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1084
    Points : 1082
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:25 am

    Isos wrote:BTW russian ships are far better armed and more armed than french. Just compare a FREMM to a super gorshkov which are the same in length I think or even a smaller gorshkovs

    you mean the La Fayette? that's the only general purpose ship they have side the horizons.

    The Fayette is also way smaller than a Gork.

    The other ships are specialized for anti-sub or Anti-air
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2333
    Points : 2327
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:38 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:BTW russian ships are far better armed and more armed than french. Just compare a FREMM to a super gorshkov which are the same in length I think or even a smaller gorshkovs

    you mean the La Fayette? that's the only general purpose ship they have side the horizons.

    The Fayette is also way smaller than a Gork.

    The other ships are specialized for anti-sub or Anti-air

    Not la fayette. The horizon class. Only 32 VLS for 16 aster 15 and 16 for aster 30 or cruise missiles + 8 exocet. Gorshkov is smaller and has 16 kalibr + 32 redut.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2333
    Points : 2327
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:42 am

    Your not necessarily disagreeing with me.
    I stated a "larger" Derzii, so basically a Gorshkov(or even larger) with the multi-mission bay area at the back with the new electric propulsion all wrapped up in a stealthy package.
    That would be great for the Russian navy. b

    They have plenty of designs for biger ships. No need for a new one.
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1084
    Points : 1082
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:04 am

    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:BTW russian ships are far better armed and more armed than french. Just compare a FREMM to a super gorshkov which are the same in length I think or even a smaller gorshkovs

    you mean the La Fayette? that's the only general purpose ship they have side the horizons.

    The Fayette is also way smaller than a Gork.

    The other ships are specialized for anti-sub or Anti-air

    Not la fayette. The horizon class. Only 32 VLS for 16 aster 15 and 16 for aster 30 or cruise missiles + 8 exocet. Gorshkov is smaller and has 16 kalibr + 32 redut.

    Um what? they have a 48 cell dude....plus 8 anti ship missiles, plus two 76mm guns, torp tubes,

    The horizon was also built to be an Anti-Air frigate mainly so they put more anti-air missiles on it then anything, I think that was stupid sure but the horizon's vastly defeats the Gork in Anti-air ability

    I know what ship you mean and yeah the FREMM has much more weaponry than a Derk

    Even the British  Type 23 frigate has more weapons, so does the Chinese Type 054A frigate and i know someone will say "it's not a frigate" it's the size of a frigate so I will call it a frigate

    I am sorry to people here but the derk is under armed for its size that is simply not debatable.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2333
    Points : 2327
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:43 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:



    Um what? they have a 48 cell dude....plus 8 anti ship missiles, plus two 76mm guns, torp tubes,

    The horizon was also built to be an Anti-Air frigate mainly so they put more anti-air missiles on it then anything, I think that was stupid sure but the horizon's vastly defeats the Gork in Anti-air ability

    I know what ship you mean and yeah the FREMM has much more weaponry than a Derk

    Even the British  Type 23 frigate has more weapons, so does the Chinese Type 054A frigate and i know someone will say "it's not a frigate" it's the size of a frigate so I will call it a frigate

    I am sorry to people here but the derk is under armed for its size that is simply not debatable.

    Yeah sorry I was talking about the Aquitaine class which is more known in france under the name FREMM.

    I'm talking about gorshkov which is a real frigate and a decent size. More weapons than a FREMM. Horizon are destroyer by nato standards btw. So gorshkov which is smaller is better armed.

    You can compare derzki to a Gowind which is French big corvette 102m while derzki is 109m according to wiki instead of taking frigates like type 23 or type 054A for your comparison  just so that numbers are good for your arguments.

    Gowind is also a small frigates by your standard. 102m for 2500 t. Compare that with derzki and you will see russian ships are better armed.

    So in terms of armements :
    Gorshkov 》 FREMM
    Derzki 》 gowind
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1084
    Points : 1082
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:50 am

    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:BTW russian ships are far better armed and more armed than french. Just compare a FREMM to a super gorshkov which are the same in length I think or even a smaller gorshkovs

    you mean the La Fayette? that's the only general purpose ship they have side the horizons.

    The Fayette is also way smaller than a Gork.

    The other ships are specialized for anti-sub or Anti-air

    Not la fayette. The horizon class. Only 32 VLS for 16 aster 15 and 16 for aster 30 or cruise missiles + 8 exocet. Gorshkov is smaller and has 16 kalibr + 32 redut.

    Um what? they have a 48 cell dude....plus 8 anti ship missiles, plus two 76mm guns, torp tubes,

    The horizon was also built to be an Anti-Air frigate mainly so they put more anti-air missiles on it then anything, I think that was stupid sure but the horizon's vastly defeats the Gork in Anti-air ability

    I know what ship you mean and yeah the FREMM has much more weaponry than a Derk

    Even the British  Type 23 frigate has more weapons, so does the Chinese Type 054A frigate and i know someone will say "it's not a frigate" it's the size of a frigate so I will call it a frigate

    I am sorry to people here but the derk is under armed for its size that is simply not debatable.

    Yeah sorry I was talking about the Aquitaine class which more known in france by FREMM.

    I'm talking about gorshkov which is a real frigate and a decent size. More weapons than a FREMM. Horizon are destroyer by nato standards btw.

    You can compare derzki to a Gowind which is French big corvette 102m while derzki is 109m according to wiki instead of take frigates like type 23 or type 054A just so that numbers are good for your arguments.

    Gowind is also a small frigates by your standard. 102m for 2500 t.

    and the Gowind class is much better weapons wise. 1 76mm, 2 CIWS, 16AA missiles, eight anti ship, 2 triple torp tubes plus one chopper.

    The derk is also 1.1k times EMPTY displacement then it will be over 1.5 when they fully loaded the Derk out.

    So the ship you stated is better weapons wise while being smaller. The dark cannot have all it's weapon it must pick and choose. I consider ships about over 3k tons frigates, I would still consider the Gowind a corvette a big one yes but still a corvette

    hoom

    Posts : 1203
    Points : 1193
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  hoom on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:13 am

    I know what ship you mean and yeah the FREMM has much more weaponry than a Derk

    Even the British Type 23 frigate has more weapons
    Suspect more weapons but both are much bigger ships, in weapons/ton Derski would be far ahead.

    Aquitaine is 7000ton ie twice the size of 20386, has 16* Aster 15 (equivalent to 9M96 50-60km), single rotating PESA, 16* SCALP (presumably can be extra Asters instead), 8* Exocet, single 76mm gun, 2* twin torp tubes & a chopper.
    Type 23 is 5000ton, has 32* Sea Wolf (~10km point defense SAM), meh radar, 8* Harpoon, single 113mm gun, 2* twin torps & a chopper.
    Gowind 2500ton has 16* MICA (20km point defense SAM), 8* Exocet, single 76mm gun, 2* triple torps & a chopper.
    Derski is 3400ton, has 16* 9M96 (up to 64* 9M100 point defense) , brand new multi-frequency fixed face AESA, 8* Kh35, 4* Kalibr, single 100mm gun, 2* quad paket torps, 1 chopper (not same time as Kalibr) & whatever fits in the multi-mission bay.
    Gorshkov is Type 23 size & the best armed of the lot.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Project 20836 Derzkii-class Corvette/Frigate

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:09 pm