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    Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

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    ahmedfire
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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:33 pm

    The video didn't work

    this might helps

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAGFQeemI40

    Interested ,

    No more hide for snipers Smile

    I remembered british soldiers in iraq used anti-snipers based on acoustic technology to calculate the exact position of the rifle fire.

    Then a electronic voice passes on the bearing and range to the soldier allowing him to jump to safety and return fire.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:51 pm

    That is an acoustic gunfire source detector and only works after the shot is taken, which for sniper fire is too late.

    For general combat use it is handy for locating enemy firing positions. The Russian version can identify the calibre of the weapon used as well as the target and source locations...







    It is a vehicle mounted system normally and is used to direct return fire... it would be ideal for IFVs and for police and paramilitary use so that shooting positions can be located quickly and shooters neutralised.

    Obviously for the military this system together with a 30mm grenade launcher is the ideal combination to deal with pretty much any firing position...

    AJ-47
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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  AJ-47 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:47 pm

    GarryB wrote:The title says it all:

    http://en.rian.ru/video/20120217/171367223.html

    One of the items on display saved Hugo Chavez’ life.


    I'm very sorry to hear that.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  AJ-47 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:53 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Obviously for the military this system together with a 30mm grenade launcher is the ideal combination to deal with pretty much any firing position...
    I guess It's a must on reconnaissance vehicle.

    victor7
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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  victor7 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:07 pm

    US came out with similar system called Boomerang in late 90s and used it in Bosnia peacekeeping ops. The technology is straight forward and especially for those who are in the field everyday. Why has Russia just now come up with the system or is it an upgrade of something else.


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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:27 am

    I'm very sorry to hear that.

    Sorry that the system was effective or because it saved a mans life?

    Hugo Chavez is the democratically elected leader of Venezuela... I thought it was the mission of the US of A to spread peace and democracy throughout the world?

    Or is democracy a selective thing based on US interests?

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:28 am

    Why has Russia just now come up with the system or is it an upgrade of something else.

    The fact that it has been revealed to the public now does not make it a "new" system.

    As stated it has been in operation for some time and has proven effective.

    I wonder if Hilary Clinton used Boomerang to evade the heavy sniper fire she encountered when she went to Bosnia... Twisted Evil

    AJ-47
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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  AJ-47 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:56 am

    I thought it was the mission of the US of A to spread peace and democracy throughout the world?
    Many bad things are done for a good cause. That’s, no doubt, one of them.


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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:45 am

    victor7 wrote:US came out with similar system called Boomerang in late 90s and used it in Bosnia peacekeeping ops. The technology is straight forward and especially for those who are in the field everyday. Why has Russia just now come up with the system or is it an upgrade of something else.

    Shocked Shocked


    Victor7 please try to control your selective thinking !!

    What has to do Boomerang (that is not of '90 years in any instance) with THIS anti-sniper system ?
    We talk of solutions on technological level (and efficiency) COMPLETELY DIFFERENT , the system presented at the show represent, at today, by far the most advanced multi-type (laser -FLIR- TV- rifle sight etc..) optical system detection available worldwide capable to pin point at the centimeter the possible position of a sniper an ATGM squad or ambushers way BEFORE them have any chance to operate .

    What has this to do with an acoustic systems (which has anyhow its role and operational niche ,in particular on APC) which have precision in the order of some hundred of meters and can operate only after that sniper has shoot ?

    If you want to know on what principle work the system you can read at pag 26 of this Borderpol journal of 2006 by Nikoai N. Slipshenko.

    http://www.worldsecurity-index.com/images/borderpol/pdf/Spring2006.pdf


    Naturally the system offered since 2006 is that allowed for export (capable anyway to save the President Chavez's life), the main improvement presented at the show is its integration with the new ORSIS T-5000 sniper rifle and its new DH 5-20×56 scope to allow the authomatic cueing toward the enemy sniper or ATGM team's position for the pre-emptive neutralization.


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    Russian Anti-Sniper Device

    Post  victor7 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:36 am

    Good to hear it is worldclass equiptment! cheers thumbsup

    Mr.Kalishnikov47
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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Mon May 07, 2012 9:53 am

    http://gunsandtactics.com/orsis-high-precision-hunting-sport-and-tactical-rifles

    I'm sure many of you have already seen this article before. It's mostly just about the unique and highly promising ORSIS T-5000 sniper rifle, but there is one paragraph in particular that really interested me.

    gunsandtactics.com wrote:"But ORSIS’s plans are far beyond the elite firing arms. Its designers are developing advanced semi-automatic rifles and pistols. However, their production will be the next stage of the Promtechnologies Group’s development when it establishes a new factory this year."

    Does this mean that ORSIS could also be developing assault rifles? If so, and if they're of the same quality as their T-500, I could see them being a real competitor in the near future.

    Of course it does say semi automatic, which likely means they're aiming their designs more towards the civilian market, but it is something to consider nonetheless.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 08, 2012 8:22 am

    They are a very small company, and I would expect their market will be for small customers... at least initially.

    Producing small batches of sniper rifles for a special forces unit is one thing, but equipping an entire army with a standard arm would likely be beyond their capacity.

    Of course if they plan to make assault rifle type weapons I am sure they will be quality items, but I doubt they would have the capacity to handle very large orders, and I suspect they might just make a living selling to the civilian market.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Tue May 08, 2012 8:55 am

    GarryB wrote:They are a very small company, and I would expect their market will be for small customers... at least initially.

    Producing small batches of sniper rifles for a special forces unit is one thing, but equipping an entire army with a standard arm would likely be beyond their capacity.

    Of course if they plan to make assault rifle type weapons I am sure they will be quality items, but I doubt they would have the capacity to handle very large orders, and I suspect they might just make a living selling to the civilian market.

    I wasn't really thinking about the army as much as FSB/MVD, and possibly a few special units of the VDV.
    ORSIS will be expanding to a second facility this year, which will hopefully increase their manufacturing capabilities.

    Actually shortly after I posted that last post I realized that they were most likely speaking of a semi automatic sniper rifle, so I guess it doesn't really mean anything in terms of assault rifles, although another new sniper from them would be very interesting.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 08, 2012 9:29 am

    Certainly the development of a designated marksman rifle or genuine semi auto sniper rifle might be a very useful development, they seem to be a fairly innovative company with good products so it will be interesting to see what they develop and how it is received.

    From the wording of the piece you quoted, I think perhaps the move is away from elite specialist weapons, which could suggest a shift to standard small arms or perhaps a shift to civilian weapons.

    In Russia the market for firearms is largely military and government/police, while the civilian market is tiny.

    In comparison in the US the civilian market is much bigger than the military/government market.

    I rather suspect this new factory signals a shift from custom made almost hand made weapons, to larger scale production for revenue purposes. Larger scale production will reduce the quality but make earning a living easier.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed May 09, 2012 10:17 am

    GarryB wrote:In Russia the market for firearms is largely military and government/police, while the civilian market is tiny.

    Garry, you have no idea how big the Russian civilian weapons market is.Civil production currently accounts for about 50% of Izhmash’s output.
    For other manufacturers like Baikal, the civilian percentage is much higher than that.
    Some of that civilian production of course goes for export. But the bread and butter is in the local market.
    By the way, Russians also import civilian firearms, you can find the usual Berettas and Remingtons in Russian gunshops.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 10, 2012 11:12 pm

    You are quite right TheArmenian, the situation of Russian weapon makers having their main domestic customers military and government organisations is very cold war and early 1990s.

    Having said that I find it difficult to believe the Russian civilian arms market is anywhere near the size of the US civilian market, are there any figures on the Russian civilian market?

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri May 11, 2012 9:06 am

    I came accross no such figures.
    With a population less than half that of the gun-happy USA, the Russian civilian market is definitly smaller. However, gun ownership in Russia and the ex-Soviet countries is common.

    With vast wild expenses, hunting and sports shooting is wildely practiced in Russia (even duiring Soviet times). Generally speaking, east of the Ural Mountain chain is rifle territory, while west of the Urals is mostly shotgun dominated.

    Russian gun laws are not as relaxed as the USA but not as restrictive a s say Australia. Basically:

    - Pistols and full automatic firearms are prohibited.
    - You can have a maximum of 5 firearms (unless you are registered as a gun collector).
    - One must have posessed a shotgun for 5 years before being allowed to own a rifle.

    Almost no restrictions on action type, pistol grip, folding stock etc.
    Traumatic pistols (e.g. a converted Makarov pistol that shoots rubber bullets)for self protection are allowed and popular.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 11, 2012 10:57 am

    Well I am on the outside looking in, but most of the western perception of Russia has old Mosin rifles as standard for most hunters in Russia with little or no hunting weapons domestically produced for the domestic market.

    Most documentaries on Siberia show old Mosin rifles of the WWII or earlier period as the standard hunting rifle.

    If you say civilian shooting in Russia is huge then I stand corrected... I knew that civilian sport shooting was encouraged like biathlon, and that it was largely hunters and fishermen that formed up some very effective units in the Murmansk area of operations and of course part of the reason Siberian troops were considered effective was because most knew how to handle a rifle and were used to operating in harsh conditions.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri May 11, 2012 11:26 am

    Hahahahaha, the old cliche stereotyping: bearded Russian hunters with Mosins,valenkis, balalaikas and accordeons shooting bears in deep snowy forests and drinking vodka.

    Nothing wrong with hunting with Mosins. However, I have been in many gunshops in Russia and Armenia, Mosins are are rarety. Russians seem to favour semi-autos like the Tigr (Civilian SVD), Saiga (Civilian AK) and Vepr (Civilian RPK).
    On the shotgun side, again semi-autos like Baikal's MP-153 and Molot's Bekas are predominant.
    Pumps are not very popular, but double barrel and combo rifle/shotguns are. Wealthy hunters also go for Italian and German firearms.

    As far as production capacity is concerned. Izhmash is capable of making upto 1 million firearms per year. Currently their annual production is no where near that number, in fact they rarely made that kind of numbers in their history.
    Izhmekh (Baikal) can also make that many as well (including airguns). Their firearms are popular almost everywhere on the planet because of their low price, ruggedness and durability. On a good year they churn up 100,000 airguns. By the way airguns and hunting with airguns is also widely practiced in Russia. Even in the city of Moscow, shooting crows with airguns is immensly popular. Just check on youtube.

    Tula (TOZ), KBP and Vyatsky-Polyanny (Molot) production capacities are much smaller than their Izhevsk based cousins.


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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 11, 2012 11:45 am

    Hahahahaha, the old cliche stereotyping: bearded Russian hunters with Mosins,valenkis, balalaikas and accordeons shooting bears in deep snowy forests and drinking vodka.

    Cliches often are created because they are true... 20 years ago the average New Zealand farmer would likely have in one of his sheds a .22 rifle, a shotgun... likely pump action but also occasionally double barrel, and an old 303 rifle with the stock cut down to make it lighter.

    Look there now and those same weapons probably remain because they were simple and cheap and still can do the job with minimal maintainence and minimal fuss.

    There might be a new rifle here and there that a son has bought, but for the most part they are tools used to put down animals, or to put food on the table... you don't need a fancy barreta costing thousands of dollars for that.


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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri May 11, 2012 12:01 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]
    you don't need a fancy barreta costing thousands of dollars for that.

    Couldn't agree with you more.

    Back on topic.
    The SV-1367 was shown at the Sofex-12 show.
    http://razm.info/4904

    Article is in Armenian. The SV-1367 is the Vychlops. Quick translation of the main points:

    Rosoboronoexport representant mentioned that up to 2011 the rifle was not allowed to be exported. Only recently it has been added.

    It is currently in production at KBP in Tula.
    Purpose: dealing with personel wearing body armour and transport vehicles.
    Caliber: 12.7 mm
    Length: 79 cm
    Weight with suppressor: 7 kgs
    Magazine capacity: 5
    Effective range: 600m

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    sniper rifles

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 12, 2012 12:54 am

    Thanks for that info...

    It also explains why it has been revealed... it is now ready for export.

    BTW I put a link up on this thread a while back for a site with images of rifles from all the countries of the world... this site no longer seems to be working, which is a bit of a shame because it looked like a very good source of photos... especially of prototypes that didn't make it to service.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 26, 2012 2:53 am

    Russia to Produce New Sets of Sniper Gear

    Russia will soon start producing four new sets of sniper equipment, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Thursday.

    “We will produce four sets for snipers,” Rogozin, who oversees Russia's defense industry, told reporters in Moscow.

    “The weaponry is going to be a part of a set of equipment, which also includes surveillance and detection tools, means of suppression and passive protection for snipers,” Rogozin said.

    The first set is designed for shooting at ranges of up to 800 meters, the second – for ranges of over 1,500 meters, the third – for snipers in urban police operations, and the fourth – for sniper training.

    The sets are being developed by a special team at the Tochmash Research Institute. The team includes instructors from Russia’s special forces, who oversee the demands for weapons performance.

    The Russian military is planning to deploy by 2016 at least 1,000 snipers to motorized rifle and tank brigades who would be capable of taking down the enemy at a distance of 1-2 kilometers.

    Sharpshooters could also be deployed in the event of mass protests, riots, or an Arab Spring type uprising.

    The next generation of snipers will be recruited from among contract servicemen and undergo long periods of training.

    So the interesting points I would pick out from this... in no particular order:

    Dedicated sniper teams are a part of the new brigade structure and will be in both tank and motor rifle brigades.
    The ranges they are working on are up to 800m which would allow SV-98 in 7.62 x 54mm calibre rifles or perhaps 6 x 49mm rifles be used as the 7.62 x 54mm is accurate to that range and slightly further in the right weapon.
    The range of 1,500m would require a larger calibre weapon, so we are talking about .388LM and 12.7 x 107mm weapons... the former for sniping individuals and the latter for anti material use.

    I would expect semi auto weapons and bolt actions will be developed for all these roles to allow flexibility.

    An upgraded SVD could handle targets out to 800m with good ammo, and the bolt action SV-98 is already effective to that range with a good margin. For the sniper these two rifles would be perfect, while their spotter might carry an AK-12 in 5.45mm for close protection, or perhaps a 6 x 49mm or 7.62 x 54mm calibre larger AK-12 for unit protection with power and accuracy.

    For the 1,500m team I would expect for the sniper that the SV-338 would be a good tool for the job, but the question becomes what sort of sniper weapon would they use for the semi auto in 338LM? Would the SVD design scale up well, or become too heavy? At about 4.5kgs the SVD is one of the lightest 30 cal sniper rifles in service.
    For 12.7 x 107mm weapons there is the semi auto OSV-96, and the bolt action ASVK. For the spotters 5.45mm and 7.62 x 54mm/6x49mm calibre AK-12s would be useful.

    For standard troops these would be standard issue weapons, where on some missions where extreme accuracy is critical then the bolt action rifles can be issued, and in cases where their role is more a support role then the semi auto weapons offer accuracy and firepower.

    For smaller or special purpose teams the huge range of other sniper weapons can be used from the SV-99 in .22lr for urban combat, through the VSS, or VSK-94 in 9 x 39mm, or the VSSK in 12.7 x 55mm calibre, or a range of other weapons including the SVDS and others.

    For a designated marksman the common ammo is handy because shooting to a max range of 600m or so means standard ammo is adequate but for specialist snipers engaging targets at 800m with 7.62 x 54mm then machinegun quality ammo is not good enough so having a different calibre like .338LM is not as big a problem as it might appear.

    Interesting that the sniper teams will get optics detection systems too... obviously critical in the anti sniper role.

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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  TR1 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:55 am

    http://twower.livejournal.com/874807.html

    Orsis rifles in gov testing.


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    Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:08 am

    TR1 wrote:http://twower.livejournal.com/874807.html

    Orsis rifles in gov testing.


    Awesome news, thank you. cheers

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