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    Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:24 am

    700 rounds per minute with a 20 round magazine... a full auto SVD.

    The SVD is rather different from the AK in that the bolt carrier is not big and heavy and attached to a big heavy gas piston tube so it really would not benefit that much from a complex recoil balancing system.

    In the AK design the bolt and the bolt carrier are substantial pieces of metal slamming back and forth during firing so an equal mass that balances that makes a significant difference in felt recoil during firing.

    With a weapon like the SVD which does not have such a big heavy mass slamming back and forward there would be no value in the added complication in the design.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:03 am

    BTW if you don't speak or read Russian like me, you can use this webpage here:

    https://translate.yandex.com/

    Across the top of the screen are the links Text, Site, Image.

    Click on Text to translate a piece of text, Site to translate a whole webpage, and Image to translate text on an image.

    Click on Image and choose to select the image and find it on your computer and it will open the image.

    If you then highlight the text you want translated it will run optical character recognition software over it and translate it for you...

    Neat eh?
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    Post  George1 on Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:40 pm

    Hi-tech firm developing new sniper rifle for Russian troops


    The first models are ready and are undergoing trials and they are being finalized based on the comments that have been made

    MOSCOW, February 28. /TASS/. Russia’s TsNIITochMash defense contractor (part of the state hi-tech corporation Rostec) is developing a new semi-automatic sniper rifle codenamed Ugolyok and chambered for .308 and .338 Lapua Magnum rounds, TsNIITochMash CEO Albert Bakov told Izvestia daily on Thursday.

    "Work is underway on the Ugolyok project. It relates to developing sniper systems for the Defense Ministry - two semi-automatic sniper rifles. We are developing rifles for the .308 and .338 Lapua Magnum rounds," Bakov said.

    TsNIITochMash earlier carried out similar experimental design work for special services but the requirements set by the Defense Ministry are tighter, he pointed out.

    "They [the special services] employ a somewhat different approach towards complete sets than the Defense Ministry, which has set tight conditions for us: no imported components," the TsNIITochMash chief executive explained.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1046846
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:18 am

    George1 wrote:

    Hi-tech firm developing new sniper rifle for Russian troops


    It would be good to add here:

    1) no its not gonna substitute SVD

    2) semiauto looks more to marksman not sniper rifle

    According to Bakov, "Ugolok" is not being created to replace Dragunov's sniper rifle (SVD). “At those distances where the SVD operates - up to 800 m - several billions can be spent and nothing is done. The SVD is brought to perfection,” the general director stressed, adding that “in some cases rifles working at a longer distance are needed ".



    BTW wasnt couple of years go presented Izhevsk model of sniper rifle already?
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:23 am

    "They [the special services] employ a somewhat different approach towards complete sets than the Defense Ministry, which has set tight conditions for us: no imported components," the TsNIITochMash chief executive explained.

    No imported components... except you choose imported calibres?
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:28 am

    GarryB wrote:
    "They [the special services] employ a somewhat different approach towards complete sets than the Defense Ministry, which has set tight conditions for us: no imported components," the TsNIITochMash chief executive explained.

    No imported components... except you choose imported calibres?

    So?

    They won't be importing bullets
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:57 am

    201-2019-01567. Execution of the state-of-the-art research and development work "Development of a remote-guidance drive for a sniper rocket-rifle launcher" Code "Felt-tip pen PDN"


    http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?regNumber=31907591184



    more in RG:


    The rocket-sniper rifle will receive an automatic guidance


    On the state procurement portal there is an application from the Tula Instrument Design Bureau named after Shipunov (KBP) for the development of a remote guidance drive for a sniper rocket rifle. Work on the weapon under the code "marker".

    The drive is designed to combine the optical axis of the sight with the line of sight of the target according to the commands of the television tracking machine. The drive includes a control unit and a gear motor for vertical and horizontal pickup. The contractor will have to make a mock drive and test it with a rifle - including in conditions of high humidity, fog and in the temperature range from -50 to +60 degrees.

    Information about the Russian sniper rocket rifle was first published in 2014. We are talking about firearm caliber 12-14 mm with a firing range that is an order of magnitude higher than modern samples. To do this, it is planned to use high-power ammunition. But the return of such a shot would not be sustained by the most trained sniper — during the tests, the weapon overturned the shooters. To reduce the recoil force of the powder gases is given in the opposite direction of the shot.

    According to the developments of the KBP, the initial speed of the bullet "Marker" will be about 1000 meters per second, the range of aimed shooting 5-7 kilometers. At a distance of 1-2 kilometers the rifle will be able to hit not only manpower, but also lightly armored vehicles


    https://rg.ru/2019/03/03/reg-cfo/reaktivnaia-snajperskaia-vintovka-rf-poluchit-avtomat-navedeniia.html
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    Post  flamming_python on Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:32 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    201-2019-01567. Execution of the state-of-the-art research and development work "Development of a remote-guidance drive for a sniper rocket-rifle launcher" Code "Felt-tip pen PDN"




    http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?regNumber=31907591184



    more in RG:


    The rocket-sniper rifle will receive an automatic guidance




    On the state procurement portal there is an application from the Tula Instrument Design Bureau named after Shipunov (KBP) for the development of a remote guidance drive for a sniper rocket rifle. Work on the weapon under the code "marker".

    The drive is designed to combine the optical axis of the sight with the line of sight of the target according to the commands of the television tracking machine. The drive includes a control unit and a gear motor for vertical and horizontal pickup. The contractor will have to make a mock drive and test it with a rifle - including in conditions of high humidity, fog and in the temperature range from -50 to +60 degrees.

    Information about the Russian sniper rocket rifle was first published in 2014. We are talking about firearm caliber 12-14 mm with a firing range that is an order of magnitude higher than modern samples. To do this, it is planned to use high-power ammunition. But the return of such a shot would not be sustained by the most trained sniper — during the tests, the weapon overturned the shooters. To reduce the recoil force of the powder gases is given in the opposite direction of the shot.

    According to the developments of the KBP, the initial speed of the bullet "Marker" will be about 1000 meters per second, the range of aimed shooting 5-7 kilometers. At a distance of 1-2 kilometers the rifle will be able to hit not only manpower, but also lightly armored vehicles


    https://rg.ru/2019/03/03/reg-cfo/reaktivnaia-snajperskaia-vintovka-rf-poluchit-avtomat-navedeniia.html

    Little wonder it overturned the shooters. Give the round a small explosive charge and voila, you have the first Bolter from Warhammer 40,000
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:04 am

    flamming_python wrote:Little wonder it overturned the shooters. Give the round a small explosive charge and voila, you have the first Bolter from Warhammer 40,000
    Ghost's
    you mean with auto-correction? bolter? not sure in Statecraft Ghosts still needed to be thoroughly trained lol1 lol1 lol1


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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:43 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    you mean with auto-correction? bolter?  not sure in Statecraft Ghosts still needed to be thoroughly trained   lol1 lol1  lol1

    What are you talking about? Ofcourse ghosts need training..... to fit into thier skintight anime armor, no doubt their most important task!
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:15 am

    Sounds more like the replacement programme for the SPG-9 than a sniper rifle...

    What sort of tv guidance could fit into a 14mm bullet that can get a lock from 6-7km while still in the gun?

    Which makes it sound like the aiming and guidance are part of the weapon and perhaps the bullets are command guided... 1-2km aimed at individuals and vehicles and up to 6-7km for aimed fire... presumably against groups or buildings.

    Perhaps the bullet has a ramjet built in and has the ability to steer, and the guidance systems directs the bullet in flight... works for ATGMs...

    So we are pretty much talking about something like a 14.5x115mm calibre weapon... it fires rounds at 1km/s, but the text seems to describe a recoilless rifle where gas leaves the back of the weapon to reduce recoil...

    At least it will be a Russian calibre and not a NATO round.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:03 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:What are you talking about? Ofcourse ghosts need training..... to fit into thier skintight anime armor, no doubt their most important task!

    And lf course no less important is sexy looks

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    GarryB wrote:
    Which makes it sound like the aiming and guidance are part of the weapon and perhaps the bullets are command guided... 1-2km aimed at individuals and vehicles and up to 6-7km for aimed fire... presumably against groups or buildings.


    why not hi-rank individuals?



    GB wrote: So we are pretty much talking about something like a 14.5x115mm calibre weapon... it fires rounds at 1km/s, but the text seems to describe a recoilless rifle where gas leaves the back of the weapon to reduce recoil...
    At least it will be a Russian calibre and not a NATO round.

    Perhaps reconciles but surely with rocket/ramjet round. Imgine 1kms can be sustained till 6-7km... or what about 2km/s fter 2km?

    BTW This was described last year in RG. But then they spoke bout 23mm. when Ghos rifle had 25mm lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:43 am

    Remind me agin why a Russian sniper whould need an auto lock on round for her rifle. A laser gided or stabilised round would make far more sense.

    Its not like she needs to be able to hit the enemy from her CO's bed

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:45 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Remind me agin why a Russian sniper whould need an auto lock on round for her rifle. A laser gided or stabilised round would make far more sense.

    to have fire-forget capability?
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    Post  flamming_python on Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:39 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:Remind me agin why a Russian sniper whould need an auto lock on round for her rifle. A laser gided or stabilised round would make far more sense.

    to have fire-forget capability?

    Why does a sniper need that?

    The bullet will hit before anyone has any time for anything anyway, including hearing the shot
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:48 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Why does a sniper need that?

    The bullet will hit before anyone has any time for anything anyway, including hearing the shot

    to check result?
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:37 am

    why not hi-rank individuals?

    My interpretation of "1-2km against individuals and vehicles, and 6-7km aimed fire" is that you can hit an individual person with each shot to 1-2km, but at 6-7km you are more firing bursts at area targets... a bit like a PKM... aimed fire at 600-800m or so, but bursts out to 1.5km against groups or area targets...

    Remind me agin why a Russian sniper whould need an auto lock on round for her rifle. A laser gided or stabilised round would make far more sense.

    Actually I suspect it is more about getting sniper level shooting performance from anyone who uses this rifle without practise or training...

    A bit like those rifle scopes with laser range finders and thermal imagers and gyros and all sorts of stuff like lasers to detect cross winds etc that generates a predicted impact point... any old soldier with little training can aim at someone.... push a button and then place the red aiming dot on the target and pull the trigger with a really good chance of a kill.

    For a bullet to kill at 6-7km means it is more powerful than a 14.5 x114mm round, but that could just be because it has a built in scramjet engine that accelerates it and provides a much flatter trajectory making longer range calculations easier too.

    to check result?

    Imagine a net centric round that takes a photo a split second before impact it and uploads it to HQ to confirm the kill...
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:00 am

    GarryB wrote:
    why not hi-rank individuals?

    My interpretation of "1-2km against individuals and vehicles, and 6-7km aimed fire" is that you can hit an individual person with each shot to 1-2km, but at 6-7km you are more firing bursts at area targets... a bit like a PKM... aimed fire at 600-800m or so, but bursts out to 1.5km against groups or area targets...

    well bursts for area form sniper rifle? I dont see such need, you can use then AGTM, artillery or silent mortar. It is to be precision weapon, if projectile is big enough can fly actually faster then muzzle velocity.
    Wht bout 3km/s projectile which gets 6km in 3 sec? still cn be corrected if US politician move couple of steps lol1 lol1 lol1


    GB wrote:
    Remind me agin why a Russian sniper whould need an auto lock on round for her rifle. A laser gided or stabilised round would make far more sense.

    Actually I suspect it is more about getting sniper level shooting performance from anyone who uses this rifle without practise or training...

    the words automated guidance system make me think otherwise






    GB wrote: For a bullet to kill at 6-7km means it is more powerful than a 14.5 x114mm round, but that could just be because it has a built in scramjet engine that accelerates it and provides a much flatter trajectory making longer range calculations easier too.

    wasn't it what "source"' has just said? ok he didnt mention scramjet but propulsion must be otherwise recoil would kill shooter or rnge would be 1-2km not to mention accuracy.


    GB wrote:
    ]to check result?
    Imagine a net centric round that takes a photo a split second before impact it and uploads it to HQ to confirm the kill...

    seriously how would you fit camera (with right lens + radio + computer to + energy source 12-14mm round ?
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:07 am

    well bursts for area form sniper rifle?

    Widely deployed SVU bullpup design of the SVD is capable of full auto fire...

    The SVD itself is semi auto to increase the number of targets you can engage per minute over a bolt action rifle...

    I dont see such need, you can use then AGTM, artillery or silent mortar.

    To 6-7km?

    You could use Kornet, but at 3 seconds per km that means 20 seconds to 7km or so...

    From 7km all mortars are silent.... Twisted Evil

    It is to be precision weapon, if projectile is big enough can fly actually faster then muzzle velocity.

    That is the suspicion... a projectile designed as a scramjet could use kinetic energy to defeat all sorts of targets...

    They call it a sniper rocket rifle... which suggests precision and projectiles that are self propelled.

    The drive is designed to combine the optical axis of the sight with the line of sight of the target according to the commands of the television tracking machine. The drive includes a control unit and a gear motor for vertical and horizontal pickup. The contractor will have to make a mock drive and test it with a rifle - including in conditions of high humidity, fog and in the temperature range from -50 to +60 degrees.

    This makes it sound like it is a high precision weapon cradle with optical aiming system and television tracking system, so you put a rifle into the rig and turn on the high zoom TV system and you find a target and based on the ballistics of the rifle mounted it aims, with great precision, the weapon... laying it like an artillery piece would be layed by its fire control and optical aiming system would.

    Information about the Russian sniper rocket rifle was first published in 2014. We are talking about firearm caliber 12-14 mm with a firing range that is an order of magnitude higher than modern samples. To do this, it is planned to use high-power ammunition. But the return of such a shot would not be sustained by the most trained sniper — during the tests, the weapon overturned the shooters. To reduce the recoil force of the powder gases is given in the opposite direction of the shot.

    So to get the range required they needed big very powerful ammo... presumably 14.5x114mm or more powerful was tested and it over turned the firing rig... they have clearly resorted to increasing the powder propellent and redirecting it backwards to counter the recoil force of the round like a recoilless rifle setup.

    According to the developments of the KBP, the initial speed of the bullet "Marker" will be about 1000 meters per second, the range of aimed shooting 5-7 kilometers. At a distance of 1-2 kilometers the rifle will be able to hit not only manpower, but also lightly armored vehicles

    The initial speed of the round is 1km/s which actually the normal muzzle velocity for a 14.5x114mm round so we must assume this increased power weapon uses a much heavier projectile... they previously mentioned 23mm so maybe they are using 23x115mm rounds necked down to smaller calibre, or perhaps even 23x152mm round for the Shilka and ZU-23-4 rounds that they are now necking down to 14mm calibre with a heavier longer projectile to allow an onboard propulsion system to retain velocity. Even dead weight firing a 14mm subcalibre round made longer would improve performance in flight over greater range, but to get to 6-7km it would benefit from a base bleed, rocket, or scramjet propulsion system.

    The velocities this round is moving at suggests HE payload would not be needed...

    the words automated guidance system make me think otherwise

    Automated guidance could merely refer to auto aiming where the user selects the target and the system aims the weapon automatically based on range and wind conditions and temperature etc etc... like that movie "The day of the Jackal..." where an aiming rig is used to precision aim a rifle for remote sniping...


    seriously how would you fit camera (with right lens + radio + computer to + energy source 12-14mm round ?

    If this is a sniper rig you drop a weapon into and dial up the ballistics of the weapon then zoom in a TV viewer to locate a target and fire the weapon at the TV viewer would take the photograph, the round would just use a propulsion system of some kind to retain a relatively flat trajectory and high average flight speed over a significant distance.

    Of course you could set up a half dozen 120mm mortars in the back of a large truck trailer unit and fire them all at once sending 6 x 16kg HE rounds 6km away with some sort of GLONASS guidance to obliterate a target in a fire and forget mode, but this is rather more interesting.

    Having this rig, that can be used to aim at targets at various different ranges allowing for different ballistics could be the solution to mine and Taddies idea of a universal weapon mount to replace the ZU-23-2.

    You could put anything from an assault rifle, though PK series MG, Kord HMG, 30mm or 40mm grenade launcher, a rifle or larger calibre sniper rifle, an anti tank rifle, a light cannon calibre weapon, a 30mm cannon, a disposable shoulder fired rocket launcher, or reusable one like the RPG-7, RPG-29, RPG-32, and of course one of the new recoilless rifles they are working on too... effective range would of course depend on the weapon being used... assault rifle or RPG-27 disposable weapon could be effective to 600m with excellent optics and stable base, while rifle calibre MG fire could be effective to an extended range of 2,500m (over the normal 1,500-2,000m) because of stability and sighting system, and also accurate modelling of ballistics and laser detection of wind conditions etc...

    Wht bout 3km/s projectile which gets 6km in 3 sec? still cn be corrected if US politician move couple of steps

    US politicians are such difficult targets.... they are enormous, but have no heart to aim for and normal ammo does not normally kill them because of all their pacts with the devil... Twisted Evil
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    well bursts for area form sniper rifle?

    Widely deployed SVU bullpup design of the SVD is capable of full auto fire...

    SVU has shorter barrel and is more like assault rifle then sniper one. Here we re talking bout something bigger. Much bigger.


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    GB wrote:
    That is the suspicion... a projectile designed as a scramjet could use kinetic energy to defeat all sorts of targets...
    They call it a sniper rocket rifle... which suggests precision and projectiles that are self propelled.
    yet is sniper which means precision fire  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil


    GB wrote:
    The drive is designed to combine the optical axis of the sight with the line of sight of the target according to the commands of the television tracking machine. The drive includes a control unit and a gear motor for vertical and horizontal pickup. The contractor will have to make a mock drive and test it with a rifle - including in conditions of high humidity, fog and in the temperature range from -50 to +60 degrees.

    This makes it sound like it is a high precision weapon cradle with optical aiming system and television tracking system, so you put a rifle into the rig and turn on the high zoom TV system and you find a target and based on the ballistics of the rifle mounted it aims, with great precision, the weapon... laying it like an artillery piece would be layed by its fire control and optical aiming system would.


    love to see its portability in action



    GB wrote:
    According to the developments of the KBP, the initial speed of the bullet "Marker" will be about 1000 meters per second, the range of aimed shooting 5-7 kilometers. At a distance of 1-2 kilometers the rifle will be able to hit not only manpower, but also lightly armored vehicles

    The initial speed of the round is 1km/s which actually the normal muzzle velocity for a 14.5x114mm round so we must assume this increased power weapon uses a much heavier projectile... they previously mentioned 23mm so maybe they are using 23x115mm rounds necked down to smaller calibre, or perhaps even 23x152mm round for the Shilka and ZU-23-4 rounds that they are now necking down to 14mm calibre with a heavier longer projectile to allow an onboard propulsion system to retain velocity. Even dead weight firing a 14mm subcalibre round made longer would improve performance in flight over greater range, but to get to 6-7km it would benefit from a base bleed, rocket, or scramjet propulsion system.

    if its 1km/s  muzzle velocity ant 14mm cal with heavy projectile it wont be handheld firearm .


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    GB wrote:The velocities this round is moving at suggests HE payload would not be needed...

    with say 1,5-2km/s and 14mm the problem will be how to pass most of energy  to soft target.



    GB wrote:
    the words automated guidance system make me think otherwise

    Automated guidance could merely refer to auto aiming where the user selects the target and the system aims the weapon automatically based on range and wind conditions and temperature etc etc... like that movie "The day of the Jackal..." where an aiming rig is used to precision aim a rifle for remote sniping...
    +++


    Having this rig, that can be used to aim at targets at various different ranges allowing for different ballistics could be the solution to mine and Taddies idea of a universal weapon mount to replace the ZU-23-2


    then you dont need sniper rifle but use KVPT or ZSU-23 with same system



    GB wrote:
    Wht bout 3km/s projectile which gets 6km in 3 sec? still cn be corrected if US politician move couple of steps

    US politicians are such difficult targets.... they are enormous, but have no heart to aim for and normal ammo does not normally kill them because of all their pacts with the devil...  Twisted Evil
    [/quote]



    yet they're not invulnerable ! You shoot their ass. Round plugs them. Then their own shit does rest,  having them explode. In an exceptional way of course. lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:33 am

    SVU has shorter barrel and is more like assault rifle then sniper one. Here we re talking bout something bigger. Much bigger.

    SVU is shorter because it is intended for urban combat at much shorter ranges and the potential for a sniper to be surprised meant burst fire was included so he could defend himself without needing an assault rifle too.

    love to see its portability in action

    ZU-23-2 is quite portable... hitch it to a light vehicle and move it around on wheels... no problem.

    Think of it like an ATGM launcher but instead of the missile just sitting on there getting precise aiming corrections on the way to the target, this system will precisely aim the weapon for firing...

    And like an RPG-7 it has a rocket motor build in to the projectile to flatten the trajectory and improve effective range.

    if its 1km/s  muzzle velocity ant 14mm cal with heavy projectile it wont be handheld firearm .

    I would be very surprised if this was an individuals weapon... but it would not be the first recoilless rifle issued to the Soviet Army... 

    Anti tank gun

    with say 1,5-2km/s and 14mm the problem will be how to pass most of energy  to soft target.

    A slightly flattened tip and raw kinetic power would vapourise most targets.

    Not sure how familiar you are with small arms, but a .22lr is a very low powered cartridge intended for small game and most of the time a shot animal doesn't even bleed very much so it just looks like it is sleeping. Sometimes with headshots there is a little blood around the mouth but otherwise nothing really.

    High velocity ammo called Stinger uses a light bullet at high velocities... so 400-500m per second compared with 280-350m/s for the normal stuff and the difference is dramatic... when you shoot a rabbit there is a puff of fur and on the exit wound side is still a small wound but a 2-3cm circle around the wound where the fur has been blown off with the impact. In slow motion the bullet exit wound was probably 2-3cm wide, which is why the fur did not stay attached.

    The animal also drops like it was hit with a hammer.

    Of course the lighter bullet does not retain energy well so by 40-50m they are rather less effective than normal rounds, but their short range effect is spectacular.

    5.56mm rounds on smaller animals are even more spectacular but the very light bullet weight limits their effect on heavier game.

    A heavier bullet moving at those sorts of speeds would have spectacular effect on even heavy targets...

    then you dont need sniper rifle but use KVPT or ZSU-23 with same system

    They probably are, but with a reduced calibre projectile... KPV rounds are effective out to about 2.5km, but would barely reach 6-7km and the KPB would be worse with 23x114mm rounds. The 23x152mm rounds would probably struggle to reach 6-7km too, though of the available rounds would probably have the best chance of doing so without going up to a 57mm calibre.


    yet they're not invulnerable ! You shoot their ass. Round plugs them. Then their own shit does rest,  having them explode. In an exceptional way of course.

    Nahhh, you follow the money that funds them and squeeze those balls till they sing the right tune.

    Getting rid of one just makes room for another to float up and take their place... it is better to learn to control them... like Putin controls Trump...

    Putin should mess with those fuckers and say he endorses the democrat who runs against trump... can you imagine the shit storm... first of all because he dares pass comment on their elections... like they pass comment on every election Russia has ever had and often done rather more to influence the results to try to favour their agenda.

    But also can you imagine them falling all over each other to deny connections.... he has pledged his support for our candidate to undermine their chances of being elected because he knows how anti russian we are going to be, or he has pledged his support for their candidate because he recognises how hard I am being on Russia and keeping them in line.

    Of course they are all so fucking stupid... Germany invaded them and unlike the civilised and moral west, they resisted and kept on resisting... you could argue the Germans treated them so bad they gave them no other option but there was always the option to capitulate... taken in France and the Ukraine and the Baltic states and many states of the former Yugoslavia that seem to be very pro western today in fact.

    The country that suffered the siege of Leningrad, the battles of Stalingrad, etc etc they are not a group of people that will roll over because the US is putting trade sanctions on them, or the UK is calling its diplomats home because this or that was likely to be true...
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    Russian Sniper Rifles and Units - Page 19 Empty Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:45 am

    GarryB wrote:[
    SVU is shorter because it is intended for urban combat at much shorter ranges and the potential for a sniper to be surprised meant burst fire was included so he could defend himself without needing an assault rifle too.


    on but there is le p'tit difference between  self-defense in 20m and firing burst of 14mm rounds  7km?


    GB wrote:
    love to see its portability in action
    ZU-23-2 is quite portable... hitch it to a light vehicle and move it around on wheels... no problem.

    Think of it like an ATGM launcher but instead of the missile just sitting on there getting precise aiming corrections on the way to the target, this system will precisely aim the weapon for firing...

    then it's not gonna   be a man-portable but  platoon portable  rifle  vide: SPG-9   Suspect  Suspect  Suspect



    GB wrote:
    if its 1km/s  muzzle velocity ant 14mm cal with heavy projectile it wont be handheld firearm .

    I would be very surprised if this was an individuals weapon... but it would not be the first recoilless rifle issued to the Soviet Army... 

    Anti tank gun


    ok lnot 32-35kg,  otherwise why to make such heavy weapon if with this weight you can get other solutions?


    GB wrote:
    with say 1,5-2km/s and 14mm the problem will be how to pass most of energy  to soft target.

    A slightly flattened tip and raw kinetic power would vapourise most targets.
    Not sure how familiar you are with small arms,

    Of course the lighter bullet does not retain energy well so by 40-50m they are rather less effective than normal rounds, but their short range effect is spectacular.

    5.56mm rounds on smaller animals are even more spectacular but the very light bullet weight limits their effect on heavier game.

    A heavier bullet moving at those sorts of speeds would have spectacular effect on even heavy targets...

    I don hunt but I aware of hydrostatic shock  waves.  But you're right. Even if most of   projectile energy is retained after it exits body the  portion passed via shock wave should be for "scattered meat" effect







    GB wrote:
    Putin should mess with those fuckers and say he endorses the democrat who runs against trump... can you imagine the shit storm... first of all because he dares pass comment on their elections... like they pass comment on every election Russia has ever had and often done rather more to influence the results to try to favour their agenda.


    that would be epic  respekt  respekt  respekt

    GB wrote: Of course they are all so fucking stupid... Germany invaded them and unlike the civilised and moral west, they resisted and kept on resisting... you could argue the Germans treated them so bad they gave them no other option but there was always the option to capitulate... taken in France and the Ukraine and the Baltic states and many states of the former Yugoslavia that seem to be very pro western today in fact.

    Ukraine ws pt of Soviet Union. The ratio of  Ukrainians were fighting in Soviet Army  vs  UPA scum was like 10:1 s.  Of course none of US sponsored propaganda outlets free media wont bother with this
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:58 am

    on but there is le p'tit difference between  self-defense in 20m and firing burst of 14mm rounds  7km?

    With simple basic rounds that include a scramjet motor and a tiny supply of fuel to allow... say 10 seconds of operation... launched at 1km/s but accelerated by scramjet to say 2km/s and running for 10 seconds, you get a flat shooting "bullet" that could have an effective range of 6-7km, but against some targets perhaps double that... imagine at 16km it is still moving at 2km/s because it is still powered... it is still going to be very very lethal just because of its velocity... you see a ship 10km offshore... it might be coming to land some troops... a burst of rounds from this weapon isn't going to sink a ship but it is going to penetrate several layers deep into that fairly thinskinnned ship and ruin some paintwork. An area target like a deck full of helos or aircraft would be horribly vulnerable and aiming up into the radar antenna arrays you could do a bit of damage there too...

    then it's not gonna   be a man-portable but  platoon portable  rifle  vide: SPG-9

    To be honest it might look a lot like these turrets on the ground robots with the HMG and the RPG rockets... the optics and thermals and laser range finders are used to precisely aim the unguided rockets and this system sounds like it will do the same with a small calibre high velocity recoilless rifle with powered projectiles...

    I don hunt but I aware of hydrostatic shock  waves.  But you're right. Even if most of   projectile energy is retained after it exits body the  portion passed via shock wave should be for "scattered meat" effect

    At speeds of 1km/s or faster the tissue will be shattered and pulverised... there are flacker photos showing bullets hitting ballistic gelatine where the gelatine expands enormously on impact but the final hole made by the projectile is much smaller... being called the temporary cavity and the permanent or wound cavity respectively. The latter is the hole left by the bullet but the former in interesting because while skin is elastic, your major organs are not so the temporary cavity can show some serious damage to the bodies organs that wont be obvious from the outside.

    Very high velocities leads to crushing and stretching of flesh and skin beyond what it can take and leads to necrosis... which is totally as serious as it sounds... dead tissue that needs to be cut out of the body before it poisons the blood and kills the victim... it is like gangrene...

    Ukraine ws pt of Soviet Union. The ratio of  Ukrainians were fighting in Soviet Army  vs  UPA scum was like 10:1 s.  Of course none of US sponsored propaganda outlets free media wont bother with this

    Where are they now... and don't say eastern ukraine...  Smile
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    Russian Sniper Rifles and Units - Page 19 Empty Re: Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:06 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    on but there is le p'tit difference between  self-defense in 20m and firing burst of 14mm rounds  7km?

    With simple basic rounds that include a scramjet motor and a tiny supply of fuel to allow... say 10 seconds of operation... launched at 1km/s but accelerated by scramjet to say 2km/s and running for 10 seconds, you get a flat shooting "bullet" that could have an effective range of 6-7km, but against some targets perhaps double that... imagine at 16km it is still moving at 2km/s..

    why 10secs if 2km/s? 1-2 sec is max what you need after 2 seconds your projectile travels with 4kms from muzzle and has 2km/s velocity. After 5km you likely still have 1km/s i.e. Ek=33kJ



    GB wrote: To be honest it might look a lot like these turrets on the ground robots with the HMG and the RPG rockets... the optics and thermals and laser range finders are used to precisely aim the unguided rockets and this system sounds like it will do the same with a small calibre high velocity recoilless rifle with powered projectiles...

    ll true but ...why to call this sniper rifle dunno dunno dunno



    GB wrote:
    I don hunt but I aware of hydrostatic shock  waves.  But you're right. Even if most of   projectile energy is retained after it exits body the  portion passed via shock wave should be for "scattered meat" effect

    At speeds of 1km/s or faster the tissue will be shattered and pulverised... there are flacker photos showing bullets hitting ballistic gelatine where the gelatine expands enormously on impact but the final hole made by the projectile is much smaller... being called the temporary cavity and the permanent or wound cavity respectively.
    isnt it what they cll hydro-static shock wave? BTW Below footage is for M885A1

    [img:21b1]https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4y1GePs-660x[quote]295.png[/img:21b1]



    GB wrote:
    Ukraine ws pt of Soviet Union. The ratio of  Ukrainians were fighting in Soviet Army  vs  UPA scum was like 10:1 s.  Of course none of US sponsored propaganda outlets free media wont bother with this
    [

    Where are they now... and don't say eastern ukraine...  Smile

    they're still there, terrorized, killed, humiliated on daily basis by "pro- European" and openly US Nazi scum. As old generation dies out new is brainwashed as-ClintonerJugend ...

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:20 am

    why 10secs if 2km/s? 1-2 sec is max what you need after 2 seconds your projectile travels with 4kms from muzzle and has 2km/s velocity. After 5km you likely still have 1km/s i.e. Ek=33kJ

    What are you talking about?

    Even a dumb projectile can be fired at 1km/s, what we are talking about are projectiles with their own propulsion to add to the speed after they leave the muzzle.

    A normal unpowered projectile like a standard 14.5 x 114mm round leaves the muzzle at 1km/s but immediately starts to slow down because it is pushing through the air and nothing is speeding it up, so by 300m distance travelled from the muzzle it might only be doing 920m/s... by the time it gets to 600m it might only be doing 850m/s, by the time it gets to 1km range it might be only doing 500m/s... at 1.8km range it might be subsonic...

    With a scramjet motor on board providing forward thrust rather than slowing down as soon as it leaves the muzzle, over the first km it moves it might actually accelerate to 2km/s... so instead of moving 1km in one and a half seconds and the second km in 3-4 seconds... so 4-5 seconds to get to 2km range... it might get to the first km in less than one second and the second kilometre in less than two seconds because it is actually accelerating instead of rapidly decelerating...

    If the scramjet can generate thrust for 10 seconds is way to ambitious... perhaps 5 seconds is more realistic with a powdered fuel burning in the airflow flowing through the projectile as it moves generating positive thrust initially for the first second or maybe two, and then just enough thrust to overcome drag and maintain speed at 2km/s, then in 5 seconds of flight it should manage 8-9km range at 2km/s... as such its ballistic range could be enormous because 5 seconds at 2km/s is plenty of speed and time to be fired up on a ballistic path to exit the thickest part of the atmosphere so when the scramjet fails as it runs out of fuel it will be moving fast enough and be high enough to be able to coast along at a very high speed over a very high distance.

    Fired horizontally at low altitude through the thickest part of the atmosphere and when that engine runs out it will likely rapidly lose speed and probably hit the ground with a total range of less than 20km... which is still a fantastic range for an infantry small arm fired round.

    ll true but ...why to call this sniper rifle

    The SPG-9 fires a rocket, but such weapons are sometimes rifled to spin the projectile and make fins unnecessary extras when the kill mechanism is velocity, but in the case of the SPG-9 it uses a HEAT warhead which doesn't like being spun as it disperses the plasma penetrating beam the warhead creates on detonation.

    If it uses rifling to stabilise the round instead of fins it could be called a sniper rifle.

    isnt it what they cll hydro-static shock wave?

    Hydrostatic shock wave is what causes that effect but the effect itself is called the temporary cavity.

    It is always quite impressive, but on many targets not a good indicator as to how effective the round is on the target because at lower velocities the flesh expands like that but it snaps back and the actual permanent wound channel is only a small fraction of the size.... made up of the actual flesh crushed by the passage of the projectile itself.

    they're still there, terrorized, killed, humiliated on daily basis by "pro- European" and openly US Nazi scum. As old generation dies out new is brainwashed as-ClintonerJugend ...

    Well they can bend or they can stand up... easy to say, not so easy to actually do. They should get a say in the next election, but that would assume those in power will let them have a say.

    If they are prevented from having a say via the ballot box in a few years the economic collapse will bring things to a head... by then the Ukraine and Russia will be totally separate so how could they blame Russia for their problems... it will be pretty clear who the real problem is... then maybe they will do something... otherwise they can remain a pawn in a game they have no chance of winning.

    They could get organised and find like minded people and work together.... strength in numbers... but if they can't be bothered then they will of course be picked off one by one by the nazis... what are they expecting to happen? America to come in and make everything right?

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