Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Share
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 547
    Points : 565
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:24 pm

    The slava can take out 64 tomahawks with its s-300 missile's.
    It has 2 other sam's with both 2 missiles so it can take out 4 others with it and it has 12 ciws systems but if the slava's goal is to take out the tomahawks it would be to Far away to intercept them with ciws.

    So with all its missiles it can take out 68 tomahawks!

    Hachimoto
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 149
    Points : 163
    Join date : 2013-02-08
    Age : 32

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Hachimoto on Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:10 am

    it's a hopeless job trying to protect Syria from the US attack if we see the monstrous attack power US navy is deploying right now and maybe next to come

    Beside Russia could play other cards ... could be attacking something the yankee love so much ... but i doubt Russia would go this further it's too risky for the moment.

    Russia should accelerate the Navy upgrade the need of big destroyers in good numbers is extreme..
    avatar
    AlfaT8
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1287
    Points : 1294
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:06 am

    Perhaps i am just naive, but i must ask, how many Russian naval unit are currently in the Mediterranean and what types of ships are they??scratch

    Thanks in advance.
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 547
    Points : 565
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:18 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:Perhaps i am just naive, but i must ask, how many Russian naval unit are currently in the Mediterranean and what types of ships are they??scratch

    Thanks in advance.
    They have currently 16 warships in the meditteranean of wich many landing ships and support ships.

    I will try to figure out the exactly sort of ships.
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 547
    Points : 565
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:22 pm

    “The known situation that is currently observed in the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea requires us to make certain adjustments to our naval group. A large anti-submarine ship of the Northern Fleet is expected to join it within the next few days. The Black Sea Fleet’s missile carrying cruiser Moskva, which is now wrapping up its mission in the North Atlantic and will soon head toward the Strait of Gibraltar, will join it a little later,” the source said.

    In autumn, the Pacific Fleet’s missile carrying cruiser Varyag is expected to replace the large anti-submarine ship Vice Admiral Panteleyev within the Russian naval group in the Mediterranean Sea, he said.
    avatar
    Stealthflanker
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 802
    Points : 886
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 29
    Location : Indonesia

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:02 pm

    Odds are the Syrian air defense that must handle the stuff on its own.

    They're already have Pantsyrs and Buk.. Nonetheless if they're not get rid of Bekaa valley era stupidity and exploit stuff as what Serbians did in 1999.. they'll end up pretty much like what it they were in 1982's.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:21 am

    x2

    Just as the Serbs can use good tactics with inadequate equipment and come out looking good, it is just as easy to ineptly use good equipment with bad tactics and get cleaned up...


    Last edited by GarryB on Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:44 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    AlfaT8
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1287
    Points : 1294
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:04 am

    Can someone tell me where the Kuznetsov currently is?
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5735
    Points : 5775
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:21 am

    Murmansk.
    avatar
    AlfaT8
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1287
    Points : 1294
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:51 am

    TR1 wrote:Murmansk.
    When is it leaving for the Mediterranean?? Wink 

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3345
    Points : 3465
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:20 pm

    According to some military discussion site.. who have been posting updates

    http://www.charly015.blogspot.com/search/label/conflicto%20sirio



    No mention of chinnesse warships and submarines from Russia in the zone. if there are any..
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 547
    Points : 565
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:08 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Murmansk.
    When is it leaving for the Mediterranean?? Wink 
    http://inserbia.info/news/2013/08/russian-aircraft-carrier-admiral-kuznetsov-to-be-sent-to-syrias-tartus/

    http://thediplomat.com/the-editor/2013/09/04/russias-aircraft-carrier-to-visit-syrian-naval-base/

    Notio
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 18
    Points : 18
    Join date : 2012-02-22

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Notio on Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:36 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:Syria Is not the reason they sended ships to the mediterranean. But  if all the arleigh burkes fire missiles at syria, is 4x 96 missiles is much much too much for the slava to intercept them but probably the us wont fire them all so the slava will be able to intercept alot of them. But as i was saying before they are not sending them for the conflict in syria.
    They don't carry 96 Tomahawks per ship. There is 96 Mark 41 VLS-cells per ship, but the same cells are also used for Harpoons and SAM-missiles. I think 56 tomahawks is in practice the maximum and it is plenty.
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 547
    Points : 565
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:05 pm

    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:Syria Is not the reason they sended ships to the mediterranean. But  if all the arleigh burkes fire missiles at syria, is 4x 96 missiles is much much too much for the slava to intercept them but probably the us wont fire them all so the slava will be able to intercept alot of them. But as i was saying before they are not sending them for the conflict in syria.
    They don't carry 96 Tomahawks per ship. There is 96 Mark 41 VLS-cells per ship, but the same cells are also used for Harpoons and SAM-missiles. I think 56 tomahawks is in practice the maximum and it is plenty.
    I know there are not tomahawks in all the cells the ESSM missile to and they dont fire harpoons from the cells they use tomahawks for anti-ships to.

    Notio
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 18
    Points : 18
    Join date : 2012-02-22

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Notio on Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:24 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:Syria Is not the reason they sended ships to the mediterranean. But  if all the arleigh burkes fire missiles at syria, is 4x 96 missiles is much much too much for the slava to intercept them but probably the us wont fire them all so the slava will be able to intercept alot of them. But as i was saying before they are not sending them for the conflict in syria.
    They don't carry 96 Tomahawks per ship. There is 96 Mark 41 VLS-cells per ship, but the same cells are also used for Harpoons and SAM-missiles. I think 56 tomahawks is in practice the maximum and it is plenty.
    I know there are not tomahawks in all the cells the ESSM missile to and they dont fire harpoons from the cells they use tomahawks for anti-ships to.
    WRONG. There is no such thing as anti-ship Tomahawk in service. It was withdrawn in 1990. Harpoon is used, except from Flight IIA on.
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 547
    Points : 565
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:58 am

    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:Syria Is not the reason they sended ships to the mediterranean. But  if all the arleigh burkes fire missiles at syria, is 4x 96 missiles is much much too much for the slava to intercept them but probably the us wont fire them all so the slava will be able to intercept alot of them. But as i was saying before they are not sending them for the conflict in syria.
    They don't carry 96 Tomahawks per ship. There is 96 Mark 41 VLS-cells per ship, but the same cells are also used for Harpoons and SAM-missiles. I think 56 tomahawks is in practice the maximum and it is plenty.
    I know there are not tomahawks in all the cells the ESSM missile to and they dont fire harpoons from the cells they use tomahawks for anti-ships to.
    WRONG. There is no such thing as anti-ship Tomahawk in service. It was withdrawn in 1990. Harpoon is used, except from Flight IIA on.
    WRONG tactical tomahawk is used for anti-ship to.
    Search on the web.
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 547
    Points : 565
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:01 pm

    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:Syria Is not the reason they sended ships to the mediterranean. But  if all the arleigh burkes fire missiles at syria, is 4x 96 missiles is much much too much for the slava to intercept them but probably the us wont fire them all so the slava will be able to intercept alot of them. But as i was saying before they are not sending them for the conflict in syria.
    They don't carry 96 Tomahawks per ship. There is 96 Mark 41 VLS-cells per ship, but the same cells are also used for Harpoons and SAM-missiles. I think 56 tomahawks is in practice the maximum and it is plenty.
    I know there are not tomahawks in all the cells the ESSM missile to and they dont fire harpoons from the cells they use tomahawks for anti-ships to.
    WRONG. There is no such thing as anti-ship Tomahawk in service. It was withdrawn in 1990. Harpoon is used, except from Flight IIA on.
    http://navy-matters.blogspot.nl/2012/08/new-anti-ship-missiles.html?m=1

    Notio
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 18
    Points : 18
    Join date : 2012-02-22

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Notio on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:00 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:Syria Is not the reason they sended ships to the mediterranean. But  if all the arleigh burkes fire missiles at syria, is 4x 96 missiles is much much too much for the slava to intercept them but probably the us wont fire them all so the slava will be able to intercept alot of them. But as i was saying before they are not sending them for the conflict in syria.
    They don't carry 96 Tomahawks per ship. There is 96 Mark 41 VLS-cells per ship, but the same cells are also used for Harpoons and SAM-missiles. I think 56 tomahawks is in practice the maximum and it is plenty.
    I know there are not tomahawks in all the cells the ESSM missile to and they dont fire harpoons from the cells they use tomahawks for anti-ships to.
    WRONG. There is no such thing as anti-ship Tomahawk in service. It was withdrawn in 1990. Harpoon is used, except from Flight IIA on.
    WRONG tactical tomahawk is used for anti-ship to.
    Search on the web.
    How about you read the link you yourself provited? There is a plan for a new anti-ship Tomahawk, scheduled for operational capability in 2015. So WRONG again, boy, there is no anti-ship Tomahawk in use. I don't wanna read an another answer from you before you develop a capability for reading and comprehension. Capish?
    avatar
    Russian Patriot
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1172
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 26
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:26 pm

    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:Syria Is not the reason they sended ships to the mediterranean. But  if all the arleigh burkes fire missiles at syria, is 4x 96 missiles is much much too much for the slava to intercept them but probably the us wont fire them all so the slava will be able to intercept alot of them. But as i was saying before they are not sending them for the conflict in syria.
    They don't carry 96 Tomahawks per ship. There is 96 Mark 41 VLS-cells per ship, but the same cells are also used for Harpoons and SAM-missiles. I think 56 tomahawks is in practice the maximum and it is plenty.
    I know there are not tomahawks in all the cells the ESSM missile to and they dont fire harpoons from the cells they use tomahawks for anti-ships to.
    WRONG. There is no such thing as anti-ship Tomahawk in service. It was withdrawn in 1990. Harpoon is used, except from Flight IIA on.
    WRONG tactical tomahawk is used for anti-ship to.
    Search on the web.
    How about you read the link you yourself provited? There is a plan for a new anti-ship Tomahawk, scheduled for operational capability in 2015. So WRONG again, boy, there is no anti-ship Tomahawk in use. I don't wanna read an another answer from you before you develop a capability for reading and comprehension. Capish?

    Excuse me, did you just tell a member what I think you did? Warning issued- RP
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:12 am

    Interesting upgrade for the Nanuchkas... it appears to be the UKSK vertical launch system on a steep angle with two tubes removed.

    Therefore I suspect it should be able to carry all the different weapon types the UKSK can handle as it would just have the different missiles in their different tubes loaded in.

    I am surprised at the light structure of the support and expected initially that it would be able to be elevated to 90 degrees to allow loading with standard equipment that would be used to load subs and ships that also use the system.

    I rather suspect that this will be also adopted to upgrade the Slava class vessels but with the greater space they could be adapted to carry rather more missiles than they carry now.

    Assuming an 8 tube structure for each twin launcher on the Slava that would mean a fairly significant number of anti ship, anti sub, and land attack missiles... 64 missiles ready to fire.



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5735
    Points : 5775
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:09 am

    It's not an upgrade, its a test ship for export sales. There are no plans to modernize any further units in the Russian navy, the only way we are going to see Yakhont/Onix/whatever is via UKSK modules.

    Ustinov is going to be in repairs until 2015, and there are zero plans for main armament change. I don't see any drastic modernization of the sort in the ships future TBH. The only current plan is for Zvezdochka to repair the other 2 ships after Ustinov, and after that the ships will be pretty old.

    EDIT: The ship is getting Vulkan though!
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:36 am

    But surely if it is successful then it would make sense to convert the Slavas from Vulcan to the same missile ALL the other new Russian boats will be carrying.

    They could save quite a bit of money ending Vulcan production, though looking at the performance increase they managed with the Kh-32 over the Kh-22M it would be interesting to see what a modern production Vulcan could do.

    Ustinov is going to be in repairs until 2015, and there are zero plans for main armament change. I don't see any drastic modernization of the sort in the ships future TBH. The only current plan is for Zvezdochka to repair the other 2 ships after Ustinov, and after that the ships will be pretty old.
    Even if they don't make the change this time they are planning on having ships in service for much longer periods in the future so I suspect that unless someone waves a magic wand and all of a sudden the Russian ship building industry suddenly becomes able to make large vessels rapidly and cheaply the decision will be to keep these vessels in service for a bit longer... which means upgrading them to the same armament as other Russian vessels carry by then makes rather more sense and will continue to make even more sense for the next upgrade if they find a way to weasel out of it.

    No matter what performance they get from upgraded Vulcans it is not likely to be as good as they will be getting from Brahmos-II or Zircon-S which will be UKSK launched too... so 12 upgraded Vulcans vs 64 missiles in a range of types including subsonic and supersonic and hypersonic land attack, anti ship and anti sub... imagine that... a multi role cruiser...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3198
    Points : 3314
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:38 am

    What about that potential upgrade for the Slava's tubes where 3 smaller missiles can be fitted into one tube?
    Any news on that?
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:56 am

    What about that potential upgrade for the Slava's tubes where 3 smaller missiles can be fitted into one tube?
    Any news on that?
    I suspect that might have been based on the use of tubes being fitted inside Oscar II tubes... which has two problems... first it was the only alternative that didn't involve removing the old tubes and doing a major redesign which is why it makes sense for the Oscars but not necessarily the Slavas, and second the Oscars had Granits which are not the same length, width, or weight as the Vulkans... in fact you bring up a useful point... if they are going to make Vulkans for the Slava class ships why not make them for the Oscars as well?

    The fact is that where possible they need to have standard weapon tubes that are compatible with other vessels in their navy... Onyx is standard... Vulkan is not.

    If they are going to put three Onyx tubes in each Granit tube on an Oscar then it would make a lot of sense to remove all the Vulkan tubes on the Slava and replace them with inclined UKSK tubes... especially when it allows an increase in missile numbers and roles.

    With 16 Vulkan tubes a Slava can take on enemy ships but that is all.

    With 64 UKSK tubes it can take on surface vessels, subs, and land based threats/targets.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3198
    Points : 3314
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Slava class cruiser

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:13 pm

    GarryB wrote: in fact you bring up a useful point... if they are going to make Vulkans for the Slava class ships why not make them for the Oscars as well?
    Hardly the point I intended to make, to be honest Wink

    But thanks for the clarification.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue May 23, 2017 9:02 am