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    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

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    Flyingdutchman

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:24 pm

    The slava can take out 64 tomahawks with its s-300 missile's.
    It has 2 other sam's with both 2 missiles so it can take out 4 others with it and it has 12 ciws systems but if the slava's goal is to take out the tomahawks it would be to Far away to intercept them with ciws.

    So with all its missiles it can take out 68 tomahawks!

    Hachimoto

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Hachimoto on Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:10 am

    it's a hopeless job trying to protect Syria from the US attack if we see the monstrous attack power US navy is deploying right now and maybe next to come

    Beside Russia could play other cards ... could be attacking something the yankee love so much ... but i doubt Russia would go this further it's too risky for the moment.

    Russia should accelerate the Navy upgrade the need of big destroyers in good numbers is extreme..
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    Flyingdutchman

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:05 pm

    Notio wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:Syria Is not the reason they sended ships to the mediterranean. But  if all the arleigh burkes fire missiles at syria, is 4x 96 missiles is much much too much for the slava to intercept them but probably the us wont fire them all so the slava will be able to intercept alot of them. But as i was saying before they are not sending them for the conflict in syria.
    They don't carry 96 Tomahawks per ship. There is 96 Mark 41 VLS-cells per ship, but the same cells are also used for Harpoons and SAM-missiles. I think 56 tomahawks is in practice the maximum and it is plenty.
    I know there are not tomahawks in all the cells the ESSM missile to and they dont fire harpoons from the cells they use tomahawks for anti-ships to.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:12 am

    Interesting upgrade for the Nanuchkas... it appears to be the UKSK vertical launch system on a steep angle with two tubes removed.

    Therefore I suspect it should be able to carry all the different weapon types the UKSK can handle as it would just have the different missiles in their different tubes loaded in.

    I am surprised at the light structure of the support and expected initially that it would be able to be elevated to 90 degrees to allow loading with standard equipment that would be used to load subs and ships that also use the system.

    I rather suspect that this will be also adopted to upgrade the Slava class vessels but with the greater space they could be adapted to carry rather more missiles than they carry now.

    Assuming an 8 tube structure for each twin launcher on the Slava that would mean a fairly significant number of anti ship, anti sub, and land attack missiles... 64 missiles ready to fire.



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    TR1

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:09 am

    It's not an upgrade, its a test ship for export sales. There are no plans to modernize any further units in the Russian navy, the only way we are going to see Yakhont/Onix/whatever is via UKSK modules.

    Ustinov is going to be in repairs until 2015, and there are zero plans for main armament change. I don't see any drastic modernization of the sort in the ships future TBH. The only current plan is for Zvezdochka to repair the other 2 ships after Ustinov, and after that the ships will be pretty old.

    EDIT: The ship is getting Vulkan though!
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:36 am

    But surely if it is successful then it would make sense to convert the Slavas from Vulcan to the same missile ALL the other new Russian boats will be carrying.

    They could save quite a bit of money ending Vulcan production, though looking at the performance increase they managed with the Kh-32 over the Kh-22M it would be interesting to see what a modern production Vulcan could do.

    Ustinov is going to be in repairs until 2015, and there are zero plans for main armament change. I don't see any drastic modernization of the sort in the ships future TBH. The only current plan is for Zvezdochka to repair the other 2 ships after Ustinov, and after that the ships will be pretty old.
    Even if they don't make the change this time they are planning on having ships in service for much longer periods in the future so I suspect that unless someone waves a magic wand and all of a sudden the Russian ship building industry suddenly becomes able to make large vessels rapidly and cheaply the decision will be to keep these vessels in service for a bit longer... which means upgrading them to the same armament as other Russian vessels carry by then makes rather more sense and will continue to make even more sense for the next upgrade if they find a way to weasel out of it.

    No matter what performance they get from upgraded Vulcans it is not likely to be as good as they will be getting from Brahmos-II or Zircon-S which will be UKSK launched too... so 12 upgraded Vulcans vs 64 missiles in a range of types including subsonic and supersonic and hypersonic land attack, anti ship and anti sub... imagine that... a multi role cruiser...


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    flamming_python

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:38 am

    What about that potential upgrade for the Slava's tubes where 3 smaller missiles can be fitted into one tube?
    Any news on that?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:56 am

    What about that potential upgrade for the Slava's tubes where 3 smaller missiles can be fitted into one tube?
    Any news on that?
    I suspect that might have been based on the use of tubes being fitted inside Oscar II tubes... which has two problems... first it was the only alternative that didn't involve removing the old tubes and doing a major redesign which is why it makes sense for the Oscars but not necessarily the Slavas, and second the Oscars had Granits which are not the same length, width, or weight as the Vulkans... in fact you bring up a useful point... if they are going to make Vulkans for the Slava class ships why not make them for the Oscars as well?

    The fact is that where possible they need to have standard weapon tubes that are compatible with other vessels in their navy... Onyx is standard... Vulkan is not.

    If they are going to put three Onyx tubes in each Granit tube on an Oscar then it would make a lot of sense to remove all the Vulkan tubes on the Slava and replace them with inclined UKSK tubes... especially when it allows an increase in missile numbers and roles.

    With 16 Vulkan tubes a Slava can take on enemy ships but that is all.

    With 64 UKSK tubes it can take on surface vessels, subs, and land based threats/targets.


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    flamming_python

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    Slava class cruiser

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:13 pm

    GarryB wrote: in fact you bring up a useful point... if they are going to make Vulkans for the Slava class ships why not make them for the Oscars as well?
    Hardly the point I intended to make, to be honest Wink

    But thanks for the clarification.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Viktor on Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:26 pm

    175 million $ for Ukraine completion. Small amount if you ask me. If that ship has sea worthiness I think Russia should go for it. 

    Named the cost of completion of the missile cruiser "Ukraine"
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    Viktor

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Viktor on Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:37 pm

    thumbsup  feels like you are on it  respekt 

    Interactive Slava class map
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    TR1

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:07 pm

    Nice find ty.
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    runaway

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  runaway on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:41 pm

    They could just install slanted UKSK that Gary showed on old corvettes. No need to do a big deep rebuilding, and i dont see need for nuclear power. Burke class DDG has not nukepower, still it belongs to carrier task forces.

    I guess we will se 2015 missile replacement with 8 slanted UKSK, 32 Oniks/clubs. With new AESA and Sigma added to new missile complex it will almost be a new cruiser.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:17 am

    They could just install slanted UKSK that Gary showed on old corvettes. No need to do a big deep rebuilding, and i dont see need for nuclear power. Burke class DDG has not nukepower, still it belongs to carrier task forces.

    The cheapest option would be to insert about three tubes down the existing tubes.

    That would give 3 x 24 = 72 tubes.

    Nuke power means they can go when and where they like and wont need strategically placed weapons, fuel and food and supplies around the world... a carrier group is only as fast as its slowest member.

    Plus production of nuclear power plants could reduce costs.


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    runaway

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  runaway on Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:49 am

    GarryB wrote:The cheapest option would be  to insert about three tubes down the existing tubes.

    That would give  3 x 24 = 72 tubes.

    Nuke power means they can go when and where they like and wont need strategically placed weapons, fuel and food and supplies around the world... a carrier group is only as fast as its slowest member.

    Plus production of nuclear power plants could reduce costs.

    I get 3 x 16= 48 tubes.
    I doubt Kutznetsov will have nuke but certainly new CV will have it. As only Kirov have nuke power today i think tankers will do. New seagoing tank ships are on the way, as are supply ships.
    Marshal Ustinov will likely be rebased to pacific fleet in 2014 if overhaul are completed.
    The former Admiral Lobov is a no go, a ship that has rusted for 23! years and a design that needs extensive rebuilding. Better to build addional Gorshkovs.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:31 am

    well duh... sorry... having a blonde moment... I was thinking of the upgrade for the Oscars where the cheapest and simplest solution was to put three UKSK launch tubes in each Granit tube (of which there are 24).

    With the Slava class of course each pair of missiles could be replaced with an 8 tube launch bin on an angle, which means 8 x 8 = 64 missiles.

    I doubt Kutznetsov will have nuke but certainly new CV will have it. As only Kirov have nuke power today i think tankers will do.

    They have been working on more powerful compact nuclear power plants for some time and I suspect the Kuznetsov was to be the first to test them as an upgrade but it seem more likely they could be fitted in the new upgrade of the Kirov in docks. Ships that size really benefit from nuke propulsion and the excess electrical generation power should make EM cats on the K much more likely... which means fixed wing AEW aircraft.... which extends the sight of the group... which is always a desirable thing.



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    runaway

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  runaway on Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:37 pm

    "MOSCOW, December 13 (RIA Novosti) – The Russian Navy missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov is expected to rejoin the fleet in 2015 following delays in the warship’s refit, the Zvezdochka shipyard said Friday.

    The Marshal Ustinov, a Slava-class missile cruiser, was launched in 1982 and commissioned with the Russian Northern Fleet in 1986. It has been undergoing a refit at the Zvezdochka shipyard in northern Russia since 2011.

    The completion of the work, which included repair of the propulsion system and overhaul of the ship’s missile, communications and navigation systems, was originally scheduled for 2014. However, diagnostics revealed that the majority of electrical cables on the vessel must be replaced, the yard said.

    “Taking into account the significant expansion of repair work, we are planning to return the Marshal Ustinov to the navy in 2015,” the shipyard’s general director, Vladimir Nikitin said in an exclusive interview with RIA Novosti.

    Nikitin said two other Slava-class missiles cruisers in active service with the Russian navy – the Black Sea Fleet’s Moskva and the Pacific Fleet’s Varyag – will also undergo scheduled maintenance and overhaul at Zvezdochka in future.

    The Slava-class cruisers were designed as surface strike ships with some anti-air and ASW capability, and have a primary armament of sixteen SS-N-12 Sandbox nuclear-capable supersonic anti-ship missiles."

    Nothing of replaceing of missile system, just overhaul. And nothing about other systems, however, SIGMA battle control system is certainly included.

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    TR1

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:59 pm

    Is that a surprise guys? I've been translating that its just an overhaul for the past 2 years Very Happy .

    There is absolutely no "deep" modernization planned as of yet.
    However the situation is interesting- they mentioned the cabling all needed replacing (that shit is time consuming, see Vikra), and engine will be partially replaced- so in terms of working condition the ships could go another decade easily (post overhaul mind you, not from todays date) and that is without further round of overhaul (this time with modernization).

    The question post repair is what to do with main caliber. Fort replacement is easy, plug in S-400, or if you want to go even more straight forward just put in Fort-M. The changes are minimal as far as the ship is concerned.
    Bazalt/Vulkan replacement requires a much more significant work around, I honestly don't see them replacing the bins for Onyx....I think they will just keep making the necessary number of Vulkans and call it a day. The missile will still be a monster in 2020.

    I think this is the way to go, no deep modernization after Zvezdochka is done with the ships. No need for new cruisers until these guys are ready to retire next decade, and by that time the new destroyers will be ready and the question of if cruisers are at all needed can be addressed.

    EDIT: Forgot, there is also the Osa, which is not getting any younger. I wonder if the deck space could be used to plug in a Kinzhal bin, I think that would be ideal, especially with the new Tor missile. Although Kinzhal is supposedly out of production.....yeah I think they will just keep Osa Sad .
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:18 am

    Maybe replace Osa and the AK-630s with Palma.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:33 am

    Although Kinzhal is supposedly out of production.....yeah I think they will just keep Osa

    Perhaps they could unify the design and use TOR-M3 missiles at sea?

    Just use the drop in vertical launch tubes without the naval rotary arrangement to increase the numbers of ready to use missiles.

    The missiles themselves are cheap and making a few extra 10,000 for naval use will make production even cheaper overall.


    BTW to be of any use all future new and upgraded vessels need Sigma to be installed to share data and provide communications.

    Inclined launch bins for UKSK launchers would not be that expensive and the result is the withdrawl of an old missile system that would need a separate set of maintainence and handling tools to keep in service.

    Standardisation really only works if it is fully implemented as quickly as possible.

    Maybe replace Osa and the AK-630s with Palma.

    Palma is low cost alternative... they want to protect these old ships so I say Duet guns, Pantsir-S1 gun/missile systems, and TOR-M3 based missiles in new compact stealthy mounts.

    The enormous array of sensors and antennas can be consolidated into a few systems to reduce weight and improve performance.


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    runaway

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  runaway on Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:53 am

    Now with the Komsomolets, then Admiral Flota Lobov nowUkrayina ("Ukraine"), it will for sure be scrapped. A pity it wasnt moored at sevastopol...

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    George1

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:18 am

    runaway wrote:Now with the Komsomolets, then Admiral Flota Lobov nowUkrayina ("Ukraine"), it will for sure be scrapped. A pity it wasnt moored at sevastopol...


    what happened to this after crimea annexation? still in sevastopol??
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    George1

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  George1 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:06 am

    Marshal Ustinov


    Vympel

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Vympel on Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:19 pm

    Marshal Ustinov refit:



    MR-600 radar has been replaced with MR-700 (where'd they get it?).

    The S-300F radar is still there, but has scaffolding ...
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    runaway

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  runaway on Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:32 am

    The Slavas are beautiful and massive ships, and refitting them makes alot of sense since new cruisers will be a very long way of.
    With modern electronics they will be up to date, but i notice the sandbox missiles is still there, perhaps it isnt doable with VLS cells on her? What about Sam´s, is the OSA-M still there?


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