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    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

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    George1
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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:19 am

    Project 21956 is considered a cruiser class.

    TR1
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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:39 am

    21956 is dead for all practical reasons, and Russian navy was never interested in it. What will the new destroyer look like? Maybe scaled up 22350? Or if Garry is right and it ends up being nuclear powered, I imagine the dimensions will be different.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:54 am

    Project 21956 is considered a cruiser class.

    It is considered to have the firepower of a cruiser... just the same as an OSA class missile corvette was considered to have the firepower of a WWII battleship with its SS-N-2 anti ship missiles.

    That doesn't mean the OSA can perform the roles of a WWII battleship, nor does it mean this new destroyer can perform the role of a cruiser.

    Putting a nuclear reactor into the 1164s, might as well build new cruiser from scratch

    The new reactors will likely last 30 years without refueling, so it might be the case that they are made to be modular so they can be plugged in like a battery. This would mean you could have propulsion pods instead of huge heavy drive shafts and gears. With electric motors and infinite gearing the vessels would become much more manouverable, and more importantly the heavy reactor and all its shielding can be positioned low in the ship near its centre and positioned like ballast.

    On a normal vessel the propulsion goes at the end of the drive shaft and you need to place ballast around the ship to balance it so that it is stable in the water. As the vessel consumes fuel and ammo the balance shifts so you need to be able to shift a percentage of ballast to maintain the balance. By using the reactor as ballast you greatly reduce the amount of dead weight on the ship and make it lighter, so it displaces less than it would otherwise displace... making it faster.

    There is no point having nuclear powered carriers zipping around the planet at 35knts+ if the cruisers that are supposed to be protecting it can only manage that speed for 4,000NM before they have to refuel... or in the case of the Kirov class 2,000NM before they run out of fuel and their speed drops down to 16Knts on old nuclear only power.

    They are building 10 SSBNs and 10 SSNs with nuclear propulsion between now and 2020... they are likely putting another nuke power plant in the Kuznetsov... I think it would be pretty stupid to not put one in the two Kirov and three Slavas they are keeping.

    And if nuclear reactors are all that expensive... how could developing a new cruiser from scratch with a nuclear reactor be cheaper? Putting one into an existing vessel will not be without risks but it should be much faster?

    Remember I am suggesting a superficial upgrade and then a later much much deeper upgrade on ships that have largely been kept semi operational. This is not the Gorshkov carrier that sat on a dock for 15 years.

    21956 is dead for all practical reasons, and Russian navy was never interested in it. What will the new destroyer look like? Maybe scaled up 22350? Or if Garry is right and it ends up being nuclear powered, I imagine the dimensions will be different.

    If current practises are anything to go by they will try to cram as much as possible into the ship as they can... Frigates look like destroyers, so can we assume destroyers will have the weapons and sensors of cruisers?

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:39 pm

    I think russia would benefit from selling the admiral lobov to the chinese so they can repair it for their fleet just like they did with the varyag. I doubt the chinese woudnt be happy to get their cruiser. Such a waste to scrap such a large magnificent vessel almost completed for nothing Sad

    George1
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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  George1 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:57 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I think russia would benefit from selling the admiral lobov to the chinese so they can repair it for their fleet just like they did with the varyag. I doubt the chinese woudnt be happy to get their cruiser. Such a waste to scrap such a large magnificent vessel almost completed for nothing Sad

    admiral lobov is Ukrainian my commissar

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:10 am

    Wasnt the "ukraina" ukrainian and the russian navy will purchase the ship at 95% completion as their fourth slava class?

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:14 am

    No, Russia won't be buying it, and it needs much more work than 5% to be completed at this point.

    Not to mention buying it with current weapons and sensors would be pointless.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  George1 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:41 am

    A Gorshkov class frigate can carry same amount of most modern missiles. Why to buy it then?

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    Slava class

    Post  TR1 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:06 am

    George1 wrote:A Gorshkov class frigate can carry same amount of most modern missiles. Why to buy it then?

    In terms of SAMs it defiantly carries less.
    But is more modern over all ofc.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  George1 on Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:25 pm

    Missile Cruiser Marshall Ustinov Begins Dock Repair

    Shipwrights of Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center have placed missile cruiser Marshall Ustinov in the dock for overhaul.

    It is planned to repair and paint the cruiser's hull, repair propeller-rudder system and bottom fittings. The ship is to be put afloat in May 2013.

    In accordance with a state contract, missile cruiser Marshall Ustinov must be recommissioned into the Navy by the end of 2013.

    The state contract for interim overhaul of the cruiser was signed late in 2011. The ship arrived at Zvezdochka shipyard later that year.

    The cruiser was laid down on Oct 5, 1978 at the 61 Communards Shipyard in Nikolayev under the name of Admiral Flota Lobov. She was launched on Feb 25, 1982 and commissioned on Nov 1986 under the name of Marshall Ustinov.

    Performance characteristics and dimensions

    Standard displacement – 9,800 tons
    Full displacement – 11,280 tons
    Length – 186.5 meters
    Beam – 20.8 meters
    Height – 42.5 meters
    Draft – 7.6 meters
    Speed – 32 knots
    Endurance – 30 days
    Crew – 476 men

    Armament

    16 launchers of Bazalt antiship missile system
    2 x 533-mm quintuple torpedo tubes
    2 antisubmarine rocket launchers RBU-6000
    1 x 130-mm gun mount AK-130
    6 x 30-mm gun mounts AK-630M
    2 dual launchers of Osa-MA SAM system
    8 launchers of S-300F Rif SAM system
    1 antisubmarine helicopter Ka-27

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16272

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:37 am

    Whats going on with Ustinov.

    According to this LINK it seems that Ustinov will pass on extensive modernization. Im I wrong?

    "The cruiser was removed from the docking camera and moored in the shallow embankment for outfitting and modernization works. Severodvinsk shipbuilders will replace more than 50% of cable routes ship missile system to perform upgrades, communications and intelligence systems. Repair work on the cruiser will be completed within 2014. Modernization ship missile system will be implemented in 2015, followed by the RRC "Marshal Ustinov" fighting back the Navy

    Vann7
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    Slava question..about defense.

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:26 pm


    Latest news report Russia is sending its Slava class cruiser Moscow? to mediterranean sea near Syria.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava-class_cruiser

    and there are 4x Arleigh Burke-class destroyer not far .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arleigh_Burke-class_destroyer

    If each of them were to attack Syria land targets.with tomahawks missiles and Russia wanted to intercept them in the air
    before they reach Syria. then question is..

    1)How many tomahawks missiles each US destroyer can launch?
    2)How many of them a single Slava class cruiser can intercept with S-300s integrated? and
    other defense systems in the slava in total?


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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:43 pm

    Syria Is not the reason they sended ships to the mediterranean. But if all the arleigh burkes fire missiles at syria, is 4x 96 missiles is much much too much for the slava to intercept them but probably the us wont fire them all so the slava will be able to intercept alot of them. But as i was saying before they are not sending them for the conflict in syria.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:56 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:Syria Is not the reason they sended ships to the mediterranean. But  if all the arleigh burkes fire missiles at syria, is 4x 96 missiles is much much too much for the slava to intercept them but probably the us wont fire them all so the slava will be able to intercept alot of them. But as i was saying before they are not sending them for the conflict in syria.
    so 96 tomahawks per destroyer.

    that answer my first question..

    2)second question is how many tomahawks a Slava class like moscow can intercept with its S-300s?

    3)and how many with other defense systems the slave class have?

    thanks!

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:24 pm

    The slava can take out 64 tomahawks with its s-300 missile's.
    It has 2 other sam's with both 2 missiles so it can take out 4 others with it and it has 12 ciws systems but if the slava's goal is to take out the tomahawks it would be to Far away to intercept them with ciws.

    So with all its missiles it can take out 68 tomahawks!

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Hachimoto on Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:10 am

    it's a hopeless job trying to protect Syria from the US attack if we see the monstrous attack power US navy is deploying right now and maybe next to come

    Beside Russia could play other cards ... could be attacking something the yankee love so much ... but i doubt Russia would go this further it's too risky for the moment.

    Russia should accelerate the Navy upgrade the need of big destroyers in good numbers is extreme..

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:06 am

    Perhaps i am just naive, but i must ask, how many Russian naval unit are currently in the Mediterranean and what types of ships are they??scratch

    Thanks in advance.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:18 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:Perhaps i am just naive, but i must ask, how many Russian naval unit are currently in the Mediterranean and what types of ships are they??scratch

    Thanks in advance.
    They have currently 16 warships in the meditteranean of wich many landing ships and support ships.

    I will try to figure out the exactly sort of ships.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:22 pm

    “The known situation that is currently observed in the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea requires us to make certain adjustments to our naval group. A large anti-submarine ship of the Northern Fleet is expected to join it within the next few days. The Black Sea Fleet’s missile carrying cruiser Moskva, which is now wrapping up its mission in the North Atlantic and will soon head toward the Strait of Gibraltar, will join it a little later,” the source said.

    In autumn, the Pacific Fleet’s missile carrying cruiser Varyag is expected to replace the large anti-submarine ship Vice Admiral Panteleyev within the Russian naval group in the Mediterranean Sea, he said.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:02 pm

    Odds are the Syrian air defense that must handle the stuff on its own.

    They're already have Pantsyrs and Buk.. Nonetheless if they're not get rid of Bekaa valley era stupidity and exploit stuff as what Serbians did in 1999.. they'll end up pretty much like what it they were in 1982's.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:21 am

    x2

    Just as the Serbs can use good tactics with inadequate equipment and come out looking good, it is just as easy to ineptly use good equipment with bad tactics and get cleaned up...


    Last edited by GarryB on Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:44 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:04 am

    Can someone tell me where the Kuznetsov currently is?

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:21 am

    Murmansk.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:51 am

    TR1 wrote:Murmansk.
    When is it leaving for the Mediterranean?? Wink 

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:20 pm

    According to some military discussion site.. who have been posting updates

    http://www.charly015.blogspot.com/search/label/conflicto%20sirio



    No mention of chinnesse warships and submarines from Russia in the zone. if there are any..

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