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    Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

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    GarryB
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:01 am

    My understanding was that most of the objections to the Gren was that it was not an ocean going vessel with any level of endurance, so it could only carry small forces over relatively short distances and could not support them for long deployments.


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  kvs on Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:15 pm

    GarryB wrote:My understanding was that most of the objections to the Gren was that it was not an ocean going vessel with any level of endurance, so it could only carry small forces over relatively short distances and could not support them for long deployments.

    The only way this would be correct is if its loading "door" was very crappy so it would flood under high seas. Perhaps this is true but I cannot see how
    the rest of the ship is not sea worthy. It's not like they skimped on metal and made it flimsy.
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:26 am

    No you misunderstand.

    What they mean by not an ocean going vessel is that it doesn't have the storage capacity to carry its main payload plus all the extras like fuel and ammo and food to continue to support the payload of men and equipment for days or weeks.

    In other words the men and vehicles get on the ship and must be delivered to where ever they intend to attack fairly quickly and then the vessel will withdraw and likely collect another load of troops and equipment to support the attack.

    I also got the impression they would have preferred more than one helo to increase the rate at which men and vehicles and equipment can be put ashore.

    The Imperial US Congress thinks it has the right to rule the world.

    Worse than that... they think the world is better off with "Them in charge" and in fact we all want them to take control of everything because they know better than we do about what we need or want.

    We poor ignorant savages need to be led and if we don't want what they are offering it is only because we are too ignorant to know what is best for us. The same attitude led to Russian Orphans being sent to the US because even if the father is a paedophile the child will still have a better life in the US than they could ever have in Russia... even if the child dies of neglect or abuse it would be better than being brought up in Russia... (Something I obviously disagree with...)


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  kvs on Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:32 pm

    GarryB wrote:No you misunderstand.

    What they mean by not an ocean going vessel is that it doesn't have the storage capacity to carry its main payload plus all the extras like fuel and ammo and food to continue to support the payload of men and equipment for days or weeks.

    In other words the men and vehicles get on the ship and must be delivered to where ever they intend to attack fairly quickly and then the vessel will withdraw and likely collect another load of troops and equipment to support the attack.

    I also got the impression they would have preferred more than one helo to increase the rate at which men and vehicles and equipment can be put ashore.

    The Imperial US Congress thinks it has the right to rule the world.

    Worse than that... they think the world is better off with "Them in charge" and in fact we all want them to take control of everything because they know better than we do about what we need or want.

    We poor ignorant savages need to be led and if we don't want what they are offering it is only because we are too ignorant to know what is best for us. The same attitude led to Russian Orphans being sent to the US because even if the father is a paedophile the child will still have a better life in the US than they could ever have in Russia...  even if the child dies of neglect or abuse it would be better than being brought up in Russia...   (Something I obviously disagree with...)


    Thanks for the clarification. If they do not have a single ship with all the capacity they would need several support ships as part of a "task force".
    I cannot think of any other landing ships fielded by any navy that are self-sufficient. But I may be sadly mistaken.

    Anyway, Russia does not have the desire to field a 3rd world suppression force navy like the USA. That is why Russia is not in a hurry to build
    aircraft carriers and even the USSR did not build the enormous ones that the US did. The Mistral deal looks bizarre to me. Why does Russia
    need helicopter carriers? I do not see the purpose of sailing the oceans with Mistrals for Russia. Maybe they could have one in the Black Sea.

    With the US trying to restart a more intense version of the cold war with Russia there may some reason for a conventional build up. But I think
    that nuclear missiles of all types should be the priority. There should be no room for conventional combat yielded. Tactical nukes should be
    used from the get go. The planners in Washington cannot be allowed to think they will have a war on their terms.
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:36 pm

    kvs wrote:
    GarryB wrote:No you misunderstand.

    What they mean by not an ocean going vessel is that it doesn't have the storage capacity to carry its main payload plus all the extras like fuel and ammo and food to continue to support the payload of men and equipment for days or weeks.

    In other words the men and vehicles get on the ship and must be delivered to where ever they intend to attack fairly quickly and then the vessel will withdraw and likely collect another load of troops and equipment to support the attack.

    I also got the impression they would have preferred more than one helo to increase the rate at which men and vehicles and equipment can be put ashore.

    The Imperial US Congress thinks it has the right to rule the world.

    Worse than that... they think the world is better off with "Them in charge" and in fact we all want them to take control of everything because they know better than we do about what we need or want.

    We poor ignorant savages need to be led and if we don't want what they are offering it is only because we are too ignorant to know what is best for us. The same attitude led to Russian Orphans being sent to the US because even if the father is a paedophile the child will still have a better life in the US than they could ever have in Russia...  even if the child dies of neglect or abuse it would be better than being brought up in Russia...   (Something I obviously disagree with...)


    Thanks for the clarification.  If they do not have a single ship with all the capacity they would need several support ships as part of a "task force".    
    I cannot think of any other landing ships fielded by any navy that are self-sufficient.  But I may be sadly mistaken.  

    Anyway, Russia does not have the desire to field a 3rd world suppression force navy like the USA.   That is why Russia is not in a hurry to build
    aircraft carriers and even the USSR did not build the enormous ones that the US did.   The Mistral deal looks bizarre to me.   Why does Russia
    need helicopter carriers?   I do not see the purpose of sailing the oceans with Mistrals for Russia.   Maybe they could have one in the Black Sea.

    With the US trying to restart a more intense version of the cold war with Russia there may some reason for a conventional build up.  But I think
    that nuclear missiles of all types should be the priority.   There should be no room for conventional combat yielded.   Tactical nukes should be
    used from the get go.   The planners in Washington cannot be allowed to think they will have a war on their terms.

    I think Ivan Gren ships are good solution for black sea regional conflicts. You dont need mistral to transport troops in crimea or abhazia
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:02 am

    Don't get me wrong, the Grens aren't bad ships and will suit many of Russias needs... all they needed was to be slightly bigger so that in addition to carrying x number of men and x number of vehicles and x amount of food and ammo, that they could carry more food and more ammo so that they could deliver their payload of men and vehicles and equipment but also with extra food and ammo so they could support operations when the force goes ashore for longer.

    I think it is not the case that the Russians want to invade africa or the middle east,but increasing and expanding their ability to send troops further afield seems to be something they desire.

    Remember in 1982 the British were able to send a sizable force to the south atlantic to defend their interests... even at the time the Soviets would have been hard pressed to do the same.

    It seems their future plans are for smaller more powerful force projection... sending in small special forces units solves one range of problems and launching conventional cruise missile attacks solves several others but in the end having some ocean going landing ships with Mistral providing helo support and perhaps a fixed wing carrier like the Kuznetsov would represent a significant force.

    I doubt they want the US Navy performance or size or cost, but I suspect they might want the sort of capabilities the British had.

    A stronger ocean going navy would be useful to offer confidence to other allies like Venezuela and Cuba and of course India and Vietnam etc and also potential allies like South Africa and Brazil etc.


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:22 am

    Project 11711 'Ivan Gren' landing ship will be transferred to the Russian Navy at the end of 2015
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Viktor on Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:52 pm

    Second of the class thumbsup

    In Kaliningrad, construction began on the second ship like "Ivan Gren"
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  zg18 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:15 pm

    Work on the ship restarted

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:43 pm

    Not much changes for a long time.
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:37 pm

    medo wrote:Not much changes for a long time.

    Very Happy it seems that this ship will be completed in 2020s...
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:08 pm

    2nd ship of the project 11711 "Peter Morgunov." will be laid on Thursday, June 11
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:16 am

    "Peter Morgunov" officially laid.









    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1337926.html
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:54 am

    Russian Navy to get large landing ship Pyotr Morgunov in 2018

    MOSCOW, June 11. /TASS/. The Russian Navy will get the Pyotr Morgunov large landing ship, laid down on Thursday at the Kaliningrad-based Yantar shipyard, in 2018, head of Navy’s shipbuilding department Vladimir Tryapichnikov told reporters.

    "The Pyotr Morgunov large landing ship is planned to be transferred to the Navy in 2018, after the completion of the vessel building and all stages of testing. The project’s lead ship - the Ivan Gren is in the final stage of construction and will be delivered to the Navy after trials at the end 2015," he said.

    Vessels of the Ivan Gren class have a displacement of 5,000 tonnes. Such a ship can support over-the-beach landing of up to 300 marines, 40 armored personnel carriers or 13 tanks and carry the Kamov Ka-29 type helicopter on the deck. The landing ships are armed with a 76-mm naval gun, two 30-mm AK-630 antiaircraft mounts and multiple artillery rocket systems.

    The Pyotr Morgunov will have modern cranes for loading equipment, which also can be loaded on the ship through the bow ramp. "The vessel has significantly improved living conditions for accommodation and accommodation of the crew, commandos and marines. Its cruising range is up to 4,000 miles, which will allow the ship to fulfil tasks in the off-shore maritime zone. The Pyotr Morgunov large landing ship can also carry a transport-combat helicopter," said Tryapichnikov.

    The Russian Navy will receive by 2020 the first new-generation landing ship that will be many times heavier than the Ivan Gren class vessels and will be able to carry several helicopters, Tryapichnikov told reporters earlier on Thursday.

    "The construction of new-generation large landing ships will be launched within the next five years, and these ships will many times surpass in displacement the Ivan Gren and Pyotr Morgunov large landing ships, have higher landing force compatibility and will be able to carry not one, but several helicopters," Tryapichnikov said.

    According to him, the first ship of this class is to be built by 2020. "It will be a new project for the ‘large landing ship’ class," he said.

    Director General of the Nevsky Design Bureau Sergei Vlasov told TASS in an interview that the bureau was working on the project of a next-generation landing ship worth 20 million roubles ($365,240). In addition, a high-ranking defence industry source told TASS previously that the designing and building of national amphibious assault helicopter ships was included in the country’s long-term naval construction programme for the period until 2050.
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:08 pm

    Russian Navy will reduce the number of planned construction of ships of project 11711 (head "Ivan Gren") from six to two.

    So "Peter Morgunov" will be the 2nd and the last one.


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:15 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian Navy will reduce the number of planned construction of ships of project 11711 (head "Ivan Gren") from six to two.

    So "Peter Morgunov" will be the 2nd and the last one.

    Makes sense. Priboy will be in the same class but will also carry helicopters. They probably need to clear out some space in dry docks.

    They will finish these two because those old soviet troop carriers need replacement ASAP
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:37 pm


    АК-630М-2 installed on Ivan Gren



    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/66278/
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:06 am


    Fresh pic, looks like they added thing or two...or not, can't tell...

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Militarov on Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:15 am

    I am seriously starting to hate this ship, i just want it to be finished so i can stop reading about it... they make article about it every time they put mobile toilet for workers near it, seriously. I bet Pyramids were built faster than this ship O.o


    Last edited by Militarov on Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:37 pm


    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/67705/

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Dima on Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:47 pm

    I simply disliked 11711E class as it was a downgrade from what Russia possessed in terms of capability with 1174 and always considered it as a result of poor planning. Even though I still dislike it, I now want it to enter service as soon as possible and begin duty in Black sea fleet to augment the Russian supplies to Syria.

    One ship of this class with limited payload capacity (how may Pantsir-S1 can it carry in lieu of 13 MBTs??) is too less but better than none. The planners have messed it big time, too much time wasted on it. If they had planned properly, Russian Navy would have had atleast two smaller and capable ships than pr.775 landing ships thats currently doing duty in the Mediterranean.
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:46 pm

    Almost after more than a decade ship seems is going to be delivered..

    Landing ship "Ivan Gren" has started mooring trials


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:56 pm

    About fricking time.

    If they decided to have 1 design, and stopped trying to make changes all the time, and just agreed as a large landing ship without all these offensive and defensive weapons, then there would probably be more than 1 already.
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:30 pm

    sepheronx wrote:About fricking time.

    If they decided to have 1 design, and stopped trying to make changes all the time, and just agreed as a large landing ship without all these offensive and defensive weapons, then there would probably be more than 1 already.

    As i once said Pyramids were built faster than this thing i swear.
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:40 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:About fricking time.

    If they decided to have 1 design, and stopped trying to make changes all the time, and just agreed as a large landing ship without all these offensive and defensive weapons, then there would probably be more than 1 already.

    As i once said Pyramids were built faster than this thing i swear.
    139 years to go to catch up with pyarmids...

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