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    Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Wed May 08, 2019 11:18 am

    The middle section of Gren can be used as parking area for vehicles. The crane is there to unload boats (into the water) or vehicles onto the shore.
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed May 08, 2019 11:47 am

    Hole wrote:The middle section of Gren can be used as parking area for vehicles.
    Or containers, inc those loaded with missiles etc.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed May 08, 2019 1:04 pm

    So the rear area could be just as easily used for that, but more importantly would allow more than one helo to takeoff and or land at one time greatly increasing the tempo of landing stores of forces or equipment using helos.

    The interesting thing is that they clearly have done away with the big heavy crane, so that suggests a change in strategy for landings... perhaps more helicopter mobile, or this is what they were thinking about regarding the combination of helicopter with APC/IFV...

    Certainly delivering troops to high ground positions would be risky by helo but would allow them to rapidly dominate the landing area, and with armour landing at the same time you will have plenty of accurate direct fire support too...

    Without the crane they have obviously abandoned container based missile systems, which IMHO makes sense... they might be OK for temporary use or surprise use but in this new design without a crane to dump an empty container it would completely eliminate the helicopter capacity for the ship which is too much in terms of compromise.
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    Post  hoom on Thu May 09, 2019 12:57 am

    The crane is still there, Charly015 missed it, I believe its depicted stored across the ship rather than longitudinally in IG.
    Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 24 11711_190424_01

    Edit: here's a bigger but also more blurry version
    Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 24 08-7478381-11711-303-i-304


    Last edited by hoom on Thu May 09, 2019 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 09, 2019 1:54 am

    hoom wrote:The crane is still there, Charly015 missed it, I believe its depicted stored across the ship rather than longitudinally in IG.
    [img]http://bastion-karpenko.ru/VVT/11711_190424_01.jpg


    More likely they used different more compact crane
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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 09, 2019 3:30 am

    Storing it across the deck would block normal access to the superstructure for helicopters and to anything moved from inside the superstructure to the deck to load or unload from the helos... unless the crane is turned around and hangs out over the water during helo operations... it all seems a bit odd.
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    Post  Gazputin on Tue May 14, 2019 9:03 am

    I reckon there is a crane on each side …. of the centre hull
    and the hull is wider and a door in between the 2 cranes

    and I reckon the helicopter hangar is accessed by 20386 corvette type lift …. leaving the middle of the ships deck free for containers etc
    and access to the superstructure …. perhaps for extra choppers ie 2 chopper storage options

    that's what I'd do ….. the superstructure is probably mostly for humans … I don't see it being used for major stores

    time will tell …. this ship reminds me a lot of the direction the 20386 is going in ….
    multi-function and flexible .... is where everything is going


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    Post  Gazputin on Thu May 23, 2019 4:46 am

    there was a strange article about getting speznats on the new Gren
    anyway it said that the ship can fit 2x Ka-30s or 1x Ka-52 …
    it was a weird translation ….. most of it was going on about special forces operations … and the various boats they use and how they could be launched from the boat without resorting to using the crane
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:00 pm

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    2h
    Thread: A VMF source tells Izvestia that the 2 new Project 11711 amphib ships, the Vasily Trushin and Vladimir Andreev, which were laid down in April, will both join the Pacific Fleet. The Ivan Gren and Pyotr Morgunov will both serve in the Northern Fleet
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:21 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    2h
    Thread: A VMF source tells Izvestia that the 2 new Project 11711 amphib ships, the Vasily Trushin and Vladimir Andreev, which were laid down in April, will both join the Pacific Fleet. The Ivan Gren and Pyotr Morgunov will both serve in the Northern Fleet


    It was expected, namesakes of those ships served in Pacific

    First two are built to older design but it won't matter much up in the Arctic because their main job wil be delivering vehicles and supplies to unprepared beaches which is default environment up there

    All in all nice save with this project, went from dead end to being multiple problem solver thumbsup



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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:32 pm


    Two New Russian Ivan Gren-class Warships Likely To Be Helicopter Carriers

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25022/Two_New_Russian_Ivan_Gren_class_Warships_Likely_To_Be_Helicopter_Carriers#.XRNdTMnOc0M
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:09 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Two New Russian Ivan Gren-class Warships Likely To Be Helicopter Carriers

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25022/Two_New_Russian_Ivan_Gren_class_Warships_Likely_To_Be_Helicopter_Carriers#.XRNdTMnOc0M

    Why even bother with this....Just make the Helio carriers you already planned to.

    They need new landing ships keep making these has landing ships.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:38 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Two New Russian Ivan Gren-class Warships Likely To Be Helicopter Carriers

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25022/Two_New_Russian_Ivan_Gren_class_Warships_Likely_To_Be_Helicopter_Carriers#.XRNdTMnOc0M

    Why even bother with this....Just make the Helio carriers you already planned to.

    They need new landing ships keep making these has landing ships.
    they just mean that they will be able to carry a few helicopters (4 to 6 max) to support landing operations. They are calling them like that for marketing reasons. In reality they will be a similar concept to the italian San Giorgio class.

    The real helicopter carriers (or better, let's call them amphibious assault ships)will be built later and with a much bigger displacement.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:54 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Two New Russian Ivan Gren-class Warships Likely To Be Helicopter Carriers

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25022/Two_New_Russian_Ivan_Gren_class_Warships_Likely_To_Be_Helicopter_Carriers#.XRNdTMnOc0M

    Why even bother with this....Just make the Helio carriers you already planned to.

    They need new landing ships keep making these has landing ships.
    they just mean that they will be able to carry a few helicopters (4 to 6  max) to support landing operations. They are calling them like that for marketing reasons. In reality they will be a similar concept to the italian San Giorgio class.

    The real helicopter carriers (or better, let's call them amphibious assault ships)will be built later and with a much bigger displacement.

    San Giorgro's are a waste of money and if it's just 4-6 Choppers so will these things be a waste of money.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:43 am

    Choppers are useful...

    Having half a dozen helicopters plus 10 MBTs or 30-35 IFVs would make them useful... not for the invasion of europe, but for other things...

    Having several ships would be more useful than just relying on one really big ship...

    And from what I have read they will start making Mistral replacements pretty soon anyway... which these vessels will compliment.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:Choppers are useful...

    Having half a dozen helicopters plus 10 MBTs or 30-35 IFVs would make them useful... not for the invasion of europe, but for other things...

    Having several ships would be more useful than just relying on one really big ship...

    And from what I have read they will start making Mistral replacements pretty soon anyway... which these vessels will compliment.
    anyway, they are also refurbishing the old polish build ropucha class (project 775), they have about 15 of them in Russian Navy.

    Maybe with Ivan Gren getting an upgrade and enlargement, they will also design and build another smaller ship (between 2000 and 4000 tons of displacement) to complement the 8000 tons 11711M and the 20000+ tons amphibious assault ships
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:56 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Two New Russian Ivan Gren-class Warships Likely To Be Helicopter Carriers

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25022/Two_New_Russian_Ivan_Gren_class_Warships_Likely_To_Be_Helicopter_Carriers#.XRNdTMnOc0M

    Why even bother with this....Just make the Helio carriers you already planned to.

    They need new landing ships keep making these has landing ships.
    they just mean that they will be able to carry a few helicopters (4 to 6  max) to support landing operations. They are calling them like that for marketing reasons. In reality they will be a similar concept to the italian San Giorgio class.

    The real helicopter carriers (or better, let's call them amphibious assault ships)will be built later and with a much bigger displacement.

    San Giorgro's are a waste of money and if it's just 4-6 Choppers so will these things be a waste of money.

    Hardly a waste of money.

    Maybe 3 Ka-29s on board, a couple of Ka-52Ks and a Ka-27.

    The Ka-27 will be used for S&R and utility duties (a must for any medium or large sized vessel)

    The Ka-29s can be used in co-ordination with the amphibious assault to deploy several marine squads to take heights and various enemy positions, as well as provide fire-support for the operation. They are equipped with machine-guns and can carry unguided rocket pods and Sturm missiles, with accuracy exceeding that of the Mi-24.

    And the Ka-52Ks can be used for precision fire-support to the operation, as well as taking out defences in advance of the landing, and in a pinch they can be armed with something like the Kh-35 too if there's some sort of small naval threat to the taskforce.

    A small helicopter force is a very strong force-multiplier for a landing ship.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:14 pm

    No worthless, everything you spoke of is why Helio Carriers exist, they have choppers to assist the forces they are deploying.

    Unless you are trying to run some budget ass navy, wasting money and crews on ships that will carry what four-six choppers and that only are a waste of resources and manpower.

    Choppers are nice yes but that idea is terrible.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:08 pm


    You guys do realize that this Gren v2.0 is Rotterdam-style ship with same intended use?

    They called it helicopter carrier because it will have more than 2 helicopters onboard but it's still supposed to haul vehicles to shore.

    Yes they could alter top structure even more in later​ versions to get flattop but it will still be holding armored vehicles below deck and dropping them on shore.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:26 pm


    Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 24 28-7634897-11711

    http://www.shipyard-yantar.ru/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/10_2017.pdf
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    Post  hoom on Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:27 am

    So its still pretty narrow.

    Crane is longitudinal, maybe smaller?
    Track down the middle to the hangar.
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    Post  Isos on Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:37 am

    What is the M area btw the two helipad ? It look like a huge helipad, maybe for VTOL.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:40 pm

    Isos wrote:What is the M area btw the two helipad ? It look like a huge helipad, maybe for VTOL.

    China and Russia are developing new heavy helicopter and Chinese will definitely want it to be navalized

    Maybe they are planning ahead with this?


    Also, what is the rectangular part between pads and hangar?

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    Post  Isos on Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:00 pm

    Also, what is the rectangular part between pads and hangar?

    Ast the crabe is near that thing, I guess it's an entrance for putting things inside the ships with the crane.
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    Post  hoom on Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:31 pm

    Oh I was thinking a track thing for moving choppers between hangar & flightpad but could indeed be a vehicle ramp, IG has pretty weird ramp up to the middle from both ends.

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