Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Share
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 975
    Points : 975
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Hole on Fri May 11, 2018 11:45 am

    The last one were completed in 82, so 32 for roughly ten years.

    Putting them out of service so fast was the idea of Jelzin. Complain to... No  He´s gone for good.

    As the Krivak emerged, the west thought it was "the best multi-purpose destroyer of the world". Not my words.
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2530
    Points : 2528
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri May 11, 2018 1:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    This redesigning is the reason why Russians have only 15 % of their fleet at the sea at any time, while easy-to-maintain standarized US navy has 50 %.

    Of course, the Russians have 85% of their fleet in maintainence... nothing to do with the US having a global empire to maintain, while the Russian Navy operating mostly coastal except for a few anti piracy operations and a few ships in the med chasing Brit subs around the place...

    And the 32 Krivaks... how long did they actually have 32 in service at one time... they started entering service in the early 1970s, but they also started decommissioning them in the 1990s... are there any even in service now?  Maybe a handful... if that.

    Comparing the capabilities of the old Krivaks with a modern version you could replace 32 with 16 easily... and enjoy an enormous increase in performance too.

    Or they could have re-purposed more than 20 of them.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18366
    Points : 18924
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 12, 2018 3:50 am

    As the Krivak emerged, the west thought it was "the best multi-purpose destroyer of the world". Not my words.

    It has never been a destroyer... it has always only been a frigate.

    And what the fuck was multipurpose about any Soviet vessel under 10,000 tons?

    Most of the things that needed a frigate during the cold war the Russians will be using corvettes for.

    For the Soviets the corvettes were little single purpose attack dogs... today they are fully multipurpose short range vessels every bit as useful as a Krivak ever was.

    Krivaks were not multipurpose until the Talwar versions and other developed variants.

    Putting them out of service so fast was the idea of Jelzin. Complain to... No He´s gone for good.

    Why complain... what could have been done with them?

    They went from having a huge navy to needing a much smaller one, so it makes sense to get rid of a lot of vessels... it is much the same as on land... they didn't need hundreds of thousands of armoured vehicles when most of them needed replacing anyway...


    Or they could have re-purposed more than 20 of them.

    They could have... but why?

    So 15% can be at sea and 85% of them sit at the pier?

    With 20+ more vessels that would have been 10% at sea and 90% at pier...

    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 975
    Points : 975
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Hole on Sat May 12, 2018 11:24 am

    The west claimed it was the best multi-purpose destroyer because they thought it had a anti-ship missile. For Russia it was always a patrol ship. After the west learned it had "only" an ASW Missile, they reclassified it to a frigate.

    Without Jelzin things would have gone better. No need to get rid of good ASW ships. Could have easily been modernised.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18366
    Points : 18924
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 13, 2018 9:37 am

    Ha, well the joke is on them... the first model of what the west called SS-N-14 Silex was Metel and it was optimised for anti sub work but the later Rastrub was a fully dual purpose weapon.

    Basically the missile was a rocket propelled missile designed to carry a torpedo strapped to it out to where the sub was and dump it into the water where the torpedo chased down and sank the sub.

    Rastrub added a 150kg HE warhead in the rocket part that carried the torpedo and an IR seeker to allow it to detect and attack surface ships... it was a fully multirole missile, like nothing the west ever had.

    A flick of the switch before launch and the missile would kill subs (in which case the 150kg warhead on the carrier did nothing), or the missile with a 150kg warhead and a full sized torpedo with its own HE warhead and load of propellant hit the ship... low flying subsonic and being IR guided would have been rather potent to be honest... a really big NSW that can hit subs as well...

    Still not a destroyer though.

    Without Jelzin things would have gone better. No need to get rid of good ASW ships. Could have easily been modernised.

    They could not have maintained a Soviet sized fleet... it was simply too big... and they really didn't have the money... the US was happy to give them money to scrap nuclear propelled vessels like subs, but they would not have helped keeping the rest of the fleet alive... no money and everyone with their hand out.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12030
    Points : 12513
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Mon May 21, 2018 3:27 pm

    Russia to float out large amphibious assault ship on May 25


    Pyotr Morgunov is the last Project 11711 warship designed by the Nevskoye Design Bureau

    MOSCOW, May 21. /TASS/. The second Project 11711 large amphibious assault ship Pyotr Morgunov will be floated out on May 25, the press office of the Yantar Shipyard on the Baltic coast reported on Monday.

    "The Baltic Yantar Shipyard [part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation] will float out the large amphibious assault ship Pyotr Morgunov on May 25," the press office said.

    Read also
    The Project 11711 large amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren
    Russia wraps up sea trials of large amphibious assault ship

    The launch ceremony will begin at 13:00 Moscow time at the slipway of the Yantar Shipyard. The launch ceremony will be attended by the Shipyard’s staff, representatives of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, the Kaliningrad Region authorities and the customer represented by Russia’s Defense Ministry.

    The Pyotr Morgunov is the second and the last Project 11711 warship designed by the Nevskoye Design Bureau. The contract for its construction was signed with the Defense Ministry of Russia in September 2014 and the warship was laid down in June 2015. The lead warship of this project, the Ivan Gren, is expected to be delivered to the customer by late May.

    As Yantar Shipyard CEO Eduard Yefimov earlier told TASS, there will be only two Project 11711 warships, the Ivan Gren and the Pyotr Morgunov. Further on, shipbuilders will build warships of larger displacement and their outlook will be determined by the Defense Ministry of Russia.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1005340
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7115
    Points : 7209
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri May 25, 2018 2:34 pm

    Morgunov is launched

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/107483/


    Now with that out of the way can they get working on something that will be made in more than 2 samples and that was designed in this century?

    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12030
    Points : 12513
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Sat May 26, 2018 2:31 pm

    Μore photos













    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 975
    Points : 975
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Hole on Sat May 26, 2018 4:51 pm

    Without the "special" pair Medvedev/Serdukhov this could be the fifth or sixth unit.

    miroslav

    Posts : 98
    Points : 100
    Join date : 2016-11-16
    Location : Land of Serbia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  miroslav on Sat May 26, 2018 9:18 pm

    George1 wrote:Μore photos




    What is that ship to the left of Peter Marg. Looks like a military ship. For a moment a thought that it might be one of the new coast guard ships, they have that large opening on the side for fast boats (inflatables).

    Could it be one of the commercial ships that Yantar is now building?
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12030
    Points : 12513
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:59 pm

    Russia wraps up state trials of large amphibious assault ship


    The state trials of the advanced amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren started in November 2017



    KALININGRAD, June 4. /TASS/. The Project 11711 large amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren built at the Yantar Shipyard on the Baltic coast for the Russian Navy has completed state trials and will be handed over to the customer soon, the Shipyard’s spokesman told TASS on Monday.

    "The acceptance certificate of the state trials of the large amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren was signed on June 2. Upon the completion of the review and the paint finish, it will be ready for its transfer," the spokesman said, adding that the exact date of the warship’s handover was not mentioned but this would take place soon.

    Read also
    Russia floats out large amphibious assault ship

    The state trials of the advanced amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren started in November 2017 but were suspended by the customer in late December to deal with technical problems that had emerged. The warship’s trials restarted on April 3, 2018 after the technical problems had been solved.

    The Project 11711 large amphibious assault lead ship Ivan Gren was developed by the Nevskoye Design Bureau in St. Petersburg in northwest Russia. It was laid down by the Yantar Shipyard in Kaliningrad in west Russia in December 2004 and launched in May 2012. Its sea trials began in June 2016.

    On November 30, 2017, the large amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren started undergoing state trials in the Baltic Sea.

    The Yantar Shipyard is building another Project 11711 warship, the Pyotr Morgunov, which is expected to be delivered to the Russian Navy in late 2018.

    The Ivan Gren can carry 13 main battle tanks, 36 armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles, or up to 300 marines. The amphibious assault ship can also transport a reinforced marine infantry company with organic military hardware and land it with the use of pontoons.

    The amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren is armed with 30mm six-barrel artillery systems and two Kamov Ka-29 transport/attack helicopters in its deck hangars.
    Share


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1007834

    hoom

    Posts : 1190
    Points : 1180
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  hoom on Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:36 am

    What is that ship to the left of Peter Marg.
    Apparently Yevgeniy Gorigledzhan

    which is Project 02670 http://7fbtk.blogspot.com/2016/03/xlt-new-gugi-oceanographic-research.html
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2285
    Points : 2304
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  eehnie on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:59 pm

    George1 wrote:

    Russia wraps up state trials of large amphibious assault ship




    The state trials of the advanced amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren started in November 2017



    KALININGRAD, June 4. /TASS/. The Project 11711 large amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren built at the Yantar Shipyard on the Baltic coast for the Russian Navy has completed state trials and will be handed over to the customer soon, the Shipyard’s spokesman told TASS on Monday.

    "The acceptance certificate of the state trials of the large amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren was signed on June 2. Upon the completion of the review and the paint finish, it will be ready for its transfer," the spokesman said, adding that the exact date of the warship’s handover was not mentioned but this would take place soon.

    Read also
    Russia floats out large amphibious assault ship

    The state trials of the advanced amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren started in November 2017 but were suspended by the customer in late December to deal with technical problems that had emerged. The warship’s trials restarted on April 3, 2018 after the technical problems had been solved.

    The Project 11711 large amphibious assault lead ship Ivan Gren was developed by the Nevskoye Design Bureau in St. Petersburg in northwest Russia. It was laid down by the Yantar Shipyard in Kaliningrad in west Russia in December 2004 and launched in May 2012. Its sea trials began in June 2016.

    On November 30, 2017, the large amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren started undergoing state trials in the Baltic Sea.

    The Yantar Shipyard is building another Project 11711 warship, the Pyotr Morgunov, which is expected to be delivered to the Russian Navy in late 2018.

    The Ivan Gren can carry 13 main battle tanks, 36 armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles, or up to 300 marines. The amphibious assault ship can also transport a reinforced marine infantry company with organic military hardware and land it with the use of pontoons.

    The amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren is armed with 30mm six-barrel artillery systems and two Kamov Ka-29 transport/attack helicopters in its deck hangars.
    Share


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1007834

    To see now the haters of this and other projects silent is very enlightening about the true nature of their arguments.

    Many only want to critizize, but are absent when the good news come in the refered to the ships and Projects that really are important for the Russian Navy.
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1082
    Points : 1080
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:52 am

    Yes after what 14 years?.

    Good for them? should I give credit for what was a disaster, you know what your right.

    Congrats Russia after a decade you finally manage to get a mere landing ship done, good for you.
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2530
    Points : 2528
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:10 am

    eehnie wrote:To see now the haters of this and other projects silent is very enlightening about the true nature of their arguments.

    Many only want to critizize, but are absent when the good news come in the refered to the ships and Projects that really are important for the Russian Navy.

    Those ships are quite worthless for the RuN. They'd be better off if they spent that money and base on 2 more Adm. Grigorovich frigates.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5952
    Points : 5979
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Militarov on Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:10 am

    eehnie wrote:

    To see now the haters of this and other projects silent is very enlightening about the true nature of their arguments.

    Many only want to critizize, but are absent when the good news come in the refered to the ships and Projects that really are important for the Russian Navy.

    Good news? Suspect

    lol1
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2530
    Points : 2528
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:13 am

    Militarov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:

    To see now the haters of this and other projects silent is very enlightening about the true nature of their arguments.

    Many only want to critizize, but are absent when the good news come in the refered to the ships and Projects that really are important for the Russian Navy.

    Good news? Suspect

    lol1

    14 years for a light LST, yay drunken
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7115
    Points : 7209
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:28 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Yes after what 14 years?.

    Good for them? should I give credit for what was a disaster, you know what your right.

    Congrats Russia after a decade you finally manage to get a mere landing ship done, good for you.

    14 years for 6600 to ship.

    So that would be roughly 200 years for 100k Shtorm-class​ supercarrier that this clown is so fond of?

    I would say that numbers definitely add up in this situation, this gets my certificate of approval (timetable estimate, not construction speed) lol1
    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 1344
    Points : 1346
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:23 am

    The real deal will be how quickly they can finish off the Petr Morgunov. With design issues solved, funds released, and the lead ship lessons learned, the PM should be done in a few years.

    FWIW, the IG was the sad victim of changing requirements, suspended program, lack of interest (ie cash) and the dilapidated state of post-meltdown Russian shipyards and personnel expertise. These factors are all being fixed, and the IG & PM will be useful tank landers when done. Anything that adds to the antique Alligators & Ropuchas can't be a bad thing if the Ruskies ever find they need to intervene in a minor scuffle.

    Of course, the perennial members of the IG Hate Club will need to take this last chance at waving their flags... Very Happy

    marat

    Posts : 218
    Points : 216
    Join date : 2015-04-26

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  marat on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:23 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:The real deal will be how quickly they can finish off the Petr Morgunov.  With design issues solved, funds released, and the lead ship lessons learned, the PM should be done in a few years.  

    FWIW, the IG was the sad victim of changing requirements, suspended program, lack of interest (ie cash) and the dilapidated state of post-meltdown Russian shipyards and personnel expertise.  These factors are all being fixed, and the IG & PM will be useful tank landers when done.  Anything that adds to the antique Alligators & Ropuchas can't be a bad thing if the Ruskies ever find they need to intervene in a minor scuffle.

    Of course, the perennial members of the IG Hate Club will need to take this last chance at waving their flags...   Very Happy
    #


    There are no IG haters club, but rational persons who find that it is shame, at least to say, that this ship was build for 14 years. And persons who find 14 years is totally ok for landing ship.
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 975
    Points : 975
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Hole on Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:01 pm

    It was not build in 14 years. In 2008 they stoped every work on it because ot the pending Mistral deal. Without Shoigu it would have been scrapped. Last 2 to 3 years was testing.
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2530
    Points : 2528
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:39 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Of course, the perennial members of the IG Hate Club will need to take this last chance at waving their flags...   Very Happy

    RuN shipbuilding delays are not just IG-related. Adm. Gorshkov is another major pickle.

    marat

    Posts : 218
    Points : 216
    Join date : 2015-04-26

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  marat on Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:19 pm

    Hole wrote:It was not build in 14 years. In 2008 they stoped every work on it because ot the pending Mistral deal. Without Shoigu it would have been scrapped. Last 2 to 3 years was testing.

    IT WAS built in 14 years, fact that they stop work for some time doesn't change fact that 14 years passed

    hoom

    Posts : 1190
    Points : 1180
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  hoom on Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:38 pm

    The real deal will be how quickly they can finish off the Petr Morgunov. With design issues solved, funds released, and the lead ship lessons learned, the PM should be done in a few years.
    This.
    The problems & delays with IG have been really appalling but its apparently sorted now so PM should hopefully follow fairly quickly.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7115
    Points : 7209
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:07 pm

    hoom wrote:
    The real deal will be how quickly they can finish off the Petr Morgunov. With design issues solved, funds released, and the lead ship lessons learned, the PM should be done in a few years.
    This.
    The problems & delays with IG have been really appalling but its apparently sorted now so PM should hopefully follow fairly quickly.

    And in the end it will be completely irrelevant because whole class has been discontinued

    They were​ only finishing these two because they were too far into construction to drop them

    And while it is commendable for them to stick with it and get the job done it still doesn't change the fact that whole project is a disaster from design down to construction

    This is not complicated ship, it's a glorified Ro-Ro vessel and it should have been done long ago

    Good thing is that Yantar was not given a single new important project in the meantime, all Karakurts for example went to more competent contractors​ even though Yantar was lobbying heavily to get their hands on another project to leech off

    Keep important ship classes​ away from these idiots

    Sponsored content

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:39 am