Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Share

    hoom

    Posts : 1182
    Points : 1172
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  hoom on Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:09 am

    Drama continues with Ivan Gren pwnd
    https://flot.com/2018/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%88%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%8F55/
    A Ka-29 practicing night chopper operations off IG crashed, both pilots dead silent

    According to https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%88%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%8F56/ commissioning is due 7th May & won't be affected.

    T-47

    Posts : 219
    Points : 219
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  T-47 on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:32 pm

    hoom wrote:Drama continues with Ivan Gren pwnd
    https://flot.com/2018/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%88%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%8F55/
    A Ka-29 practicing night chopper operations off IG crashed, both pilots dead silent

    According to https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%88%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%8F56/ commissioning is due 7th May & won't be affected.

    Ouch RIP pale
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18348
    Points : 18906
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:40 am

    No ejection seats in that model Kamov unfortunately... RIP to the crew.

    But that hardly has anything to do with the Ivan Gren itself... unless it chased after the helicopter after it took off and rammed it...
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7112
    Points : 7206
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri May 04, 2018 4:48 pm


    Ivan Gren has completed tests

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/106735/
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 972
    Points : 972
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Hole on Fri May 04, 2018 4:50 pm

    No kidding?

    So even the toilets are flushing correctly now!

    marat

    Posts : 218
    Points : 216
    Join date : 2015-04-26

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  marat on Fri May 04, 2018 9:50 pm

    Hole wrote:No kidding?

    So even the toilets are flushing correctly now!

    Shocked Shocked Shocked


    Toilets ??? OMG

    Ivan!!! We forgot something...

    jocolor lol!
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 972
    Points : 972
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Hole on Fri May 04, 2018 10:26 pm

    They could always use the large toilet around the ship. Wink
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12023
    Points : 12504
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Fri May 04, 2018 11:41 pm

    The warship is planned to be delivered to the customer until the end of May, according to the Yantar Shipyard spokesman

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1002946
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18348
    Points : 18906
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 05, 2018 9:50 am

    Ohh, no... if they put that ship in service what will the 5th columnists complain about now...
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 972
    Points : 972
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Hole on Sat May 05, 2018 11:30 am

    That Russia just builds two of them. Logistical problems... bla, bla, bla
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5952
    Points : 5979
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Militarov on Sat May 05, 2018 12:53 pm

    GarryB wrote:Ohh, no... if they put that ship in service what will the 5th columnists complain about now...

    I somehow got feeling that nightmare just started with this tub lol1
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18348
    Points : 18906
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 05, 2018 2:18 pm

    It is not the lynch pin that holds together the Russian Federation.


    It will likely spend most of its operational life transporting things around the place quietly, doing a reasonable job.
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1080
    Points : 1078
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat May 05, 2018 6:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:It is not the lynch pin that holds together the Russian Federation.


    It will likely spend most of its operational life transporting things around the place quietly, doing a reasonable job.

    Excuses, Excuses. Keyboard warriors, in the real world, if there is a clear problem you fix it.

    If this issue was just with the gren I'd have nothing to say but it basically with everything they build.

    It's a good thing someone with your mentality has no power int hat area, in the end you'd do more damage than good.

    The Russians have a clear has day issues making ships at a decent pace, if you keep excusing that your are doing no one any justice.

    Things should be criticized when there is clear flat, to improve the situation not turn your head the other way and make excuses because you're a fanboy.

    You think the Chinese, Koreans, US would stand for such delays? no, they would not. They would fix the issue rather than let it affect the entire network of shipbuilding like Russia has allowed.
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 972
    Points : 972
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Hole on Sat May 05, 2018 6:59 pm

    You mean like the delays of their last aircraft carrier?
    Or the debacle with the Zumwalt "class"?
    Or the debacle with the LCS?
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5952
    Points : 5979
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Militarov on Sat May 05, 2018 7:14 pm

    Hole wrote:You mean like the delays of their last aircraft carrier?
    Or the debacle with the Zumwalt "class"?
    Or the debacle with the LCS?

    They have delays with aircraft carrier... of a year and half... Ivan Gren is being built for 15 years to become glorified cargo trawler. Ford has 15 times its displacement. Apples, oranges...watermelons...

    Half of the "problems" with LCS wouldnt even be listed as problems in Russia. Rust on keel? RuNAV laughs at rust, they paint over it as seen more than once.

    There is limit to my Rusophilia i am afraid.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2315
    Points : 2309
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Isos on Sat May 05, 2018 7:23 pm

    They should try to sell it to Greece which already operates landing ships from Russia with a couple of btr-82.

    Russian navy doesn't want that ship. They clearly don't give a shit about when it will be ready. I think they are focusing on future Mistral replacement.

    This ship will add another class of ships operated by russian navy which is already full of different classes which is expensive.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7112
    Points : 7206
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat May 05, 2018 7:27 pm

    Isos wrote:They should try to sell it to Greece which already operates landing ships from Russia with a couple of btr-82.

    Russian navy doesn't want that ship. They clearly don't give a shit about when it will be ready. I think they are focusing on future Mistral replacement.
    ............

    I don't think they are focusing on anything

    I doubt they even know what they want
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5952
    Points : 5979
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Militarov on Sat May 05, 2018 7:29 pm

    Isos wrote:They should try to sell it to Greece which already operates landing ships from Russia with a couple of btr-82.

    Russian navy doesn't want that ship. They clearly don't give a shit about when it will be ready. I think they are focusing on future Mistral replacement.

    This ship will add another class of ships operated by russian navy which is already full of different classes which is expensive.

    I thought Greece sold their Zubrs to China Suspect
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2315
    Points : 2309
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Isos on Sat May 05, 2018 7:38 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Isos wrote:They should try to sell it to Greece which already operates landing ships from Russia with a couple of btr-82.

    Russian navy doesn't want that ship. They clearly don't give a shit about when it will be ready. I think they are focusing on future Mistral replacement.

    This ship will add another class of ships operated by russian navy which is already full of different classes which is expensive.

    I thought Greece sold their Zubrs to China Suspect

    I didn't know that. But when you see Erdogan's ambitions they should buy it quickly with 2 or 3 Grigorovich.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2315
    Points : 2309
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Isos on Sat May 05, 2018 7:41 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    I don't think they are focusing on anything

    I doubt they even know what they want

    It was the case for the last 20 years but now they should know what they want. They did buy 2 Mistral which means they need such ships.
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1080
    Points : 1078
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat May 05, 2018 8:04 pm

    Hole wrote:You mean like the delays of their last aircraft carrier?
    Or the debacle with the Zumwalt "class"?
    Or the debacle with the LCS?

    There is no delays with the Zumwalts they where just found to violate the McCurdy Amendment so many of them got cancelled.

    That HAS nothing to do with, the rate at which the three ships are getting made which is three years and all is going according to plan.

    The LCS again is built one time, they are just stupid ships.

    I never said Russia is the only country to cancel ship projects or make pointless ship types, everyone does that here and there.

    I said Russia has issues making ships and excusing that isn't going to help anyone including them and will only harm them.

    So don't waste my time alright.

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18348
    Points : 18906
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 06, 2018 3:03 am

    Excuses, Excuses. Keyboard warriors, in the real world, if there is a clear problem you fix it.

    And the clear problem was that the Russian Navy didn't really know what it wanted during the extended development period of this vessel... how could they possibly anticipate the cowardice of France or the change in the Ukraine, or the economic sanctions over the Crimea... changes in requirements, mistakes being made in the development... and the fact that it is not exactly super important in the first place all led to serious delays in getting this ship operational.

    Big fucking deal mr killer battlefield general man.

    If this issue was just with the gren I'd have nothing to say but it basically with everything they build.

    Many of the issues that slowed development of this ship also effected most other programmes as well.

    It's a good thing someone with your mentality has no power int hat area, in the end you'd do more damage than good.

    I would say the same to you mr stalin because after you had all the shipyard leaders executed and those replacing them because there were vacancies... and not because they are better at their job than those they replaced will use the fear for their existence to put out loads of shit... you want a fucking frigate in 1 year... fine... it will look perfect if you use black and white film to take the photo because it will look like something out of the 1970s because that is what they can build fast... because it is easy.

    They can build Kilos and Krivak IVs real easy... it is the new multirole modular designs they are having problems with... but you can't understand that... you just shoot people for a living don't you?

    I hope you are not in command of any soldiers... their life expectancy would be pretty low around you.

    The Russians have a clear has day issues making ships at a decent pace, if you keep excusing that your are doing no one any justice.

    They already have more ships than they need... they don't have the budget or the capacity to operate a dozen new destroyers and two dozen new Frigates and three carriers.

    Things should be criticized when there is clear flat, to improve the situation not turn your head the other way and make excuses because you're a fanboy.

    Things are improving... pretty soon they will not need engines or components made in the Ukraine or Germany or China for that matter... not many countries can actually say that.

    I would say it would be a fanboi that would be demanding more production so they could poke out their little chests and thump them and say how powerful the Russian Navy is, and how it could take on all of NATO without leaving coastal waters... but the huge irony is that with Kinzhal and soon Zircon... they wont be far wrong... except it will be the naval air arm doing all the heavy lifting... They don't need a huge fleet... a huge fleet would cost to much to buy and to operate and what the fuck are they going to do with 100+ submarines and all these destroyers and cruisers and frigates you suggest they need right now?

    What exactly is the purpose of having all these brand new vessels... are they short? Do they not have enough to do everything they want to do?

    Do you even know what they need their ships for?

    If you can't list all the things they will be doing with all these needed new vessels doesn't that make you the fanboy?

    You think the Chinese, Koreans, US would stand for such delays? no, they would not. They would fix the issue rather than let it affect the entire network of shipbuilding like Russia has allowed.

    I repeat... what is spending 20 billion dollars on hundreds of new vessels large and small going to achieve?

    Will the west suddenly say... oops we have no proof of your involvement in the Skripals case... we will recind the sanctions and diplomat explusions, you can have Crimea too as it appears to be the will of the Crimean people... and hey maybe what you are doing in Syria is actually good for the Syrian people and the future of Syria and stability and peace in the region...

    Yeah, of course they will because that works every time doesn't it?

    They have delays with aircraft carrier... of a year and half... Ivan Gren is being built for 15 years to become glorified cargo trawler. Ford has 15 times its displacement. Apples, oranges...watermelons...

    You are right, but not for the reasons you give... the carrier was only slightly delayed because they needed it and spent enormous amounts of money to get it into the water. The Gren is not important and so it spent long periods with nothing being decided and nothing being spent.

    If you don't understand that then maybe your bigotry is the problem.

    When there are problems in other navies the issues are dismissed...

    This ship will add another class of ships operated by russian navy which is already full of different classes which is expensive.

    What are you talking about?

    Do you think every ship made is unique and therefore you need a completely new set of spanners to work on a Krivak class than you do with a Udaloy class ship?

    The engines are different but most of the internal equipment is the same, though it might be arranged differently.

    I don't think they are focusing on anything

    I doubt they even know what they want

    And in an environment where overnight the US can pick some people at random and declare them enemies of the state and ban all US and allied companies and individuals from having dealings with said people unless those people want to be sanctioned too how certain is the future?

    The people developing the Kinzhal... clearly a naval weapon are competing for the same funds that shipyards wanting to build ships are competing for... I am not saying large ships are dead, they are very useful in peace time and in limited wars, but full all out war the life span of any Russian Navy vessel is limited... and with the Russian military being in possession of Kinzhal and Zircon missiles I would say the plight of opposing navies is even worse.

    This will drive massive investment into directed energy weapons like lasers etc I suspect, but until they are mature enough then these very fast missiles are a serious threat to anyone wanting a navy.

    They did buy 2 Mistral which means they need such ships.

    They have naval infantry forces, and a requirement for vessels to deploy them.

    While the Mistrals were being made they would not have been sitting idly by doing nothing... they would have been setting up the infrastructure and systems to operate such vessels... including landing ships and custom built helicopters and of course training troops and crews to operate these ships... a lot of that could be sold to Egypt to go with their new boats but the infrastructure in Russia would not be as transferable... and more to the point those forces expecting to be operating from two Mistrals right now and possibly a total of four in the near future if everything worked out OK... so things are put on hold.

    Now they can use the designs of the Mistrals and make some serious modifications to suit their own needs better and develop their own vessels that will likely be much better armed... hell... imagine a Mistral that has a gun turret at the front for a twin barrel 152mm naval Coalition gun that can fire guided shells to 70 km and provide its own naval gun support.... or perhaps that will be fitted to cruisers and the NGS role could be transferred to a new 203mm calibre gun with over 100km range and a 100kg shell instead of a 40kg one.

    There is no delays with the Zumwalts they where just found to violate the McCurdy Amendment so many of them got cancelled.

    Wow, they worked out they weren't going to do what they wanted them to do... or did their requirements change... either way does the US Navy not know what it wants... what a bunch of dumbasses... the future is certain and everyone knows what is going to happen and how these things will change things...

    The LCS again is built one time, they are just stupid ships.

    So completely different from the Ivan Gren... a unique case like Kosovo...

    But the US Navy never makes mistakes... only the stupid Russians do.

    I never said Russia is the only country to cancel ship projects or make pointless ship types, everyone does that here and there.

    Oh, so why the fuck are you saying the sky is falling because an unimportant ship took too long to build in your opinion?

    I said Russia has issues making ships and excusing that isn't going to help anyone including them and will only harm them.

    Of course... ignore any possible reasons for problems and just shoot those responsible or sent them to a gulag and let team b prove they are better... the only problem there is that if team b were always better why the fuck were they not team a in the first place?

    So don't waste my time alright.

    You seem able to waste time telling us the sky is falling on the Russian Navy... and you even admit that same sky falls on other navies too... but you only seem to go to threads with Russian ships having problems to complain... interesting the way you use your time.
    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 1344
    Points : 1346
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun May 06, 2018 3:22 am

    Oh FFS... just the mention of the word "Gren" and the trolls come bursting from their bunkers... Suspect

    Free speech in the hands of biased fuktards should be classified as a WMD.

    russia
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 972
    Points : 972
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Hole on Sun May 06, 2018 11:54 am

    Ford, Zumwalt, LCS are not build in time. They are not ready, just because the are now "part ot the navy". Like the british carrier and destroyers and the german frigates and submarines. This is the western way. Put it "in service" and for the next five or more years they Oligarch owned yard ca fix all the problems without paying a fine.
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1080
    Points : 1078
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun May 06, 2018 5:32 pm

    Hole wrote:Ford, Zumwalt, LCS are not build in time. They are not ready, just because the are now "part ot the navy". Like the british carrier and destroyers and the german frigates and submarines. This is the western way. Put it "in service" and for the next five or more years they Oligarch owned yard ca fix all the problems without paying a fine.

    Ford one was year late, it's the first of a new class of AC when Russia lays down it's first AC we will see how mnay delays they have.

    The Zumwalt where to be built in three years each they are in time, the LCS are also on time.

    Do not lie because is literally what you are doing.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:44 am