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    Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:18 am

    "not some faggot on the internet whining because it takes longer than they thing is necessary for this size ship or that size ship."

    I got nothing to say to you now, if you are going to use such a slur.

    You are just looking for an excuse not to talk about this... you call me a pro russian fanboy and I call you a faggot, now you don't want to talk to me... fine.

    This is not really a discussion I am interested in anyway... you sound like CNN... it has taken 20 years for them to make a transport barge... their navy is finished... heads should roll... blah blah blah.

    What a joke Garry and frankly disgraceful on your part., I hope another admin of staff members sees this and reprimands you for it.

    I am sure I will get a fine of 50% of this weeks wages... or maybe 60%.


    Peŕrier

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Peŕrier on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:08 am

    The most likely reason behind sluggish Ivan Gren's building, IMHO, is that Navy was/is not longer sure it needs it.

    A ship designed to beach itself to unload mechanized infantry could be not easily adapted if you shift your doctrine to a mainly wheeled and airborne (helos) force.

    Mistrals were clearly to provide the airborne part, Ivan Gren could find itself putting at strain escorts needing to close distances up to beach itself.

    I think in the Navy and Naval Infantry commands should have scraped their heads a long time studying which way operate or modify Ivan Gren to adapt her to new operational procedures.

    I was under the impression Naval Infantry still got their tanks, with no tanks I'm not sure Navy still wants its amphibious ships to beach themselves.

    So at least a careful study of possible changes of the ship,and of best ways to employ should have eated a fairly long time and delayed works on the hull.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:09 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:I got nothing to say to you now, if you are going to use such a slur.

    IF this is how you act, when some criticize Russia you should not be an Admin.

    All you have done is again made excuses but no you crossed a line using that word because I called Russia out.

    What a joke Garry and frankly disgraceful on your part., I hope another admin of staff members sees this and reprimands you for it.


    Boy you're just the latest in a long line of people that have gotten themselves shocked & butthurt over Garry's argumentative nature 'well I never!' Smile

    Just chill, no need to get upset over slurs used on the internet.

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    George1

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:42 pm

    MOSCOW, December 25. /TASS/. Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) expects to deliver the large amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren and the third Project 11356 frigate Admiral Makarov to the Russian Navy by the yearend, USC Head Alexei Rakhmanov said on Monday.

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/982916
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:50 pm

    George1 wrote:
    MOSCOW, December 25. /TASS/. Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) expects to deliver the large amphibious assault ship Ivan Gren and the third Project 11356 frigate Admiral Makarov to the Russian Navy by the yearend, USC Head Alexei Rakhmanov said on Monday.

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/982916

    Ivan Gren by year end? That's on Sunday...

    Unless they mean year end 2018 No lol1
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    George1

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:28 pm

    Pr.11711 large landing ship Ivan Gren (135) is having issues with its astern propulsion. MoD trials have been suspended until the end of January 2018.

    https://flotprom.ru/2018/287567/

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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:54 am

    More red meat for the Gren-ophobes! Twisted Evil
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:20 am

    George1 wrote:Pr.11711 large landing ship Ivan Gren (135) is having issues with its astern propulsion. MoD trials have been suspended until the end of January 2018.

    https://flotprom.ru/2018/287567/


    lol1 lol1 lol1

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:55 am

    No words....just no words
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:56 am

    Who gives a fuck if it is having problems with its propulsion... it must be put in service immediately and it is all of Russias fault.

    When its specs were created it was a different time and since then things have changed and this vessel has not adapted with the changes so eventually it will be completed and go into service but it may never be used for anything except training.

    So propulsion problems... so who is incompetent... who do we hang for this transgression?

    No words....just no words

    Nice change. Razz

    But surely now you have specific targets for your bleating... you can isolate the propulsion makers for the sabotaging of this critical piece of weaponry that was to save the Russian Empire.. bastards.

    Of course... fault finding and testing should be banned completely as time wasters and it should be put straight into service... sort it out there.

    Sorry, I am putting words in your mouth... you go ahead and have a whinge (a moan).
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:23 am

    GarryB wrote:Who gives a fuck if it is having problems with its propulsion... it must be put in service immediately and it is all of Russias fault.

    When its specs were created it was a different time and since then things have changed and this vessel has not adapted with the changes so eventually it will be completed and go into service but it may never be used for anything except training.

    So propulsion problems... so who is incompetent... who do we hang for this transgression?

    No words....just no words

    Nice change. Razz

    But surely now you have specific targets for your bleating... you can isolate the propulsion makers for the sabotaging of this critical piece of weaponry that was to save the Russian Empire.. bastards.

    Of course... fault finding and testing should be banned completely as time wasters and it should be put straight into service... sort it out there.

    Sorry, I am putting words in your mouth... you go ahead and have a whinge (a moan).

    Sorry bruh got no time for fanboys who like to jack it at the name of Russia.
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Isos on Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:18 am

    George1 wrote:Pr.11711 large landing ship Ivan Gren (135) is having issues with its astern propulsion. MoD trials have been suspended until the end of January 2018.

    https://flotprom.ru/2018/287567/


    There is a mistake. They probably wanted to say January 8102 lol1


    Last edited by Isos on Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Isos on Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:21 am

    GarryB wrote:Who gives a fuck if it is having problems with its propulsion... it must be put in service immediately and it is all of Russias fault.

    When its specs were created it was a different time and since then things have changed and this vessel has not adapted with the changes so eventually it will be completed and go into service but it may never be used for anything except training.

    So propulsion problems... so who is incompetent... who do we hang for this transgression?

    No words....just no words

    Nice change. Razz

    But surely now you have specific targets for your bleating... you can isolate the propulsion makers for the sabotaging of this critical piece of weaponry that was to save the Russian Empire.. bastards.

    Of course... fault finding and testing should be banned completely as time wasters and it should be put straight into service... sort it out there.

    Sorry, I am putting words in your mouth... you go ahead and have a whinge (a moan).

    I think you are right concerning the fact that it was designed in a different time by other people so it's kinda hard to finish work of others. Now they have the same people wirking on the design, construction and test so new vessel won't have those issues.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:20 pm

    Isos wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Who gives a fuck if it is having problems with its propulsion... it must be put in service immediately and it is all of Russias fault.

    When its specs were created it was a different time and since then things have changed and this vessel has not adapted with the changes so eventually it will be completed and go into service but it may never be used for anything except training.

    So propulsion problems... so who is incompetent... who do we hang for this transgression?

    No words....just no words

    Nice change. Razz

    But surely now you have specific targets for your bleating... you can isolate the propulsion makers for the sabotaging of this critical piece of weaponry that was to save the Russian Empire.. bastards.

    Of course... fault finding and testing should be banned completely as time wasters and it should be put straight into service... sort it out there.

    Sorry, I am putting words in your mouth... you go ahead and have a whinge (a moan).

    I think you are right concerning the fact that it was designed in a different time by other people so it's kinda hard to finish work of others. Now they have the same people wirking on the design, construction and test so new vessel won't have those issues.

    LoL if they told someone who never had any experience in ship construction sure, however they did this excuse is stupid. IT's just Garry defending Russia because it's Russia and trying to make up any excuse to justify it.
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    runaway

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    Propulsion

    Post  runaway on Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:34 pm

    There is no need to get excited, its just trouble with propulsion. We all know this ships long time of idle building status and so on, now it seems its almost ready except for minor trouble with propulsion.
    We also know they built these 6 kilo subs and 3 frigates for the BSF in good time. But with sanctions and low oil price they have had to make priorities, so I say again, nothing to get excited for.
    The ship will be transferred to Navy when the Navy is satisfied it works 100%, nothing strange.
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Isos on Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:19 pm

    LoL if they told someone who never had any experience in ship construction sure, however they did this excuse is stupid. IT's just Garry defending Russia because it's Russia and trying to make up any excuse to justify it.

    Well from the 90s to the 00s they were in hard times so probably many engineers went away and since Putin came new workers had to gain experience. It's quite hard to build new ships not just for Russia, look at the news for the german new frigate ...

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:17 pm

    Isos wrote:
    LoL if they told someone who never had any experience in ship construction sure, however they did this excuse is stupid. IT's just Garry defending Russia because it's Russia and trying to make up any excuse to justify it.

    Well from the 90s to the 00s they were in hard times so probably many engineers went away and since Putin came new workers had to gain experience. It's quite hard to build new ships not just for Russia, look at the news for the german new frigate ...


    Württemberg-class frigate's are closer to the size of DD's then Frigates at the tonnage of 7-8K.

    The build time of four years is quite good for a ship of that size.
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    Luq man

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Luq man on Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:09 pm

    Ivan Gren Landing Ship: No Hope to Join Navy before March Due to Reverse-Run Problems, Insider Says

    Project 11711 landing ship Ivan Gren being constructed at the Yantar Shipyard (Kaliningrad, Russia) cannot be handed over to the Russian Navy because of the back draught problems; the tests are suspended till the month end, a well-aware insider told Mil.Today. According to him, the ship will take sea at the end of January.
    The problems of reverse run are the only thing hindering the ship’s commissioning into the Russian Navy, which was planned back in December 2017, the expert said.
    A source in the Navy told Mil.Today that the decision to postpone the ship’s handover had been made by the scientific council of the Naval Academy on December 26.

    The ship "appeared to have seven serious problems to be resolved, some on papers, some upon follow-up revision", the insider added. The break in the ship’s trials was personally declared by the head of the state commission. The next session was scheduled on February 1, and then the decisions will be analyzed and signed

    "Well, the ship could have been commissioned in December, but the navy plays safe to avoid future problems. Gren did have certain problems of seaworthiness and stability in the past, but they were fixed then. The only issue remained is backward run steerage", he said.
    Press service of the Yantar Shipyard refused to answer the Mil.Today’s questions. Russian Navy’s spokesman, Capt 1 Rank Igor Dygalo failed to pick up the phone either.

    The ship’s diesel engine, D1049, was made by the Kolomensky Zavod. It is connected to the screw via reduction gear produced by Zvezda PJSC. According to the Kolomensky Zavod’s officials, they are not aware of any problems regarding the engine. "Thus, the issue is either about reduction gear or the failure is non-fatal and can be fixed", another expert told Mil.Today.
    Press service of Zvezda PJSC could not give any prompt comments; the company’s director Pavel Plavnik was inaccessible. Later, on January 17, Zvezda’s spokesman reported there were no problems with the reduction gear.

    "Some problems are connected only with the reverse speed", Sergey Vlasov, director of Nevskoye Design Bureau that developed the ship’s project shared with Mil.Today

    An insider at a Russian design office harshly criticized navigability of Ivan Gren and discredited the need for serial production of these ships. As for him, the project was designed for the ‘river-sea’ zones to redeploy landing parties between different theaters, and the ship’s dimensions initially corresponded to parameters of the Volga-Don Canal locks and clearance of bridges.
    "Project 11711 was meant to replace the small-size obsolete Project 775 landing ships, it was literally whomped up", said the shipbuilder. "When the ‘river-sea’ condition was lifted, they made the ship’s deck structure larger. This and other alterations negatively affected the hull stability", the expert concluded.
    http://mil.today/2018/Weapons3/
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Isos on Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:16 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    LoL if they told someone who never had any experience in ship construction sure, however they did this excuse is stupid. IT's just Garry defending Russia because it's Russia and trying to make up any excuse to justify it.

    Well from the 90s to the 00s they were in hard times so probably many engineers went away and since Putin came new workers had to gain experience. It's quite hard to build new ships not just for Russia, look at the news for the german new frigate ...


    Württemberg-class frigate's are closer to the size of DD's then Frigates at the tonnage of 7-8K.

    The build time of four years is quite good for a ship of that size.

    I was trying to say that even german shipyard, which are known for their quality and all the experience they have, have made a ship that was not good. So we can't expect Russia to build correctly a ship designed than 20 years ago to be good but for ships designed now by the same persons that will make the test, the situation should be better.

    But if it it's the same with new ships, they should close the shipyards ...

    Peŕrier

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Peŕrier on Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:24 pm

    runaway wrote:There is no need to get excited, its just trouble with propulsion. We all know this ships long time of idle building status and so on, now it seems its almost ready except for minor trouble with propulsion.
    We also know they built these 6 kilo subs and 3 frigates for the BSF in good time. But with sanctions and low oil price they have had to make priorities, so I say again, nothing to get excited for.
    The ship will be transferred to Navy when the Navy is satisfied it works 100%, nothing strange.

    Actually, if the issues are related to reversing propulsion, that means some trouble with the reduction gear.

    If there is any fault in it, even if limited to the reversing function, it won't be easy to solve without taking it out and either deeply modifying it or in the worst case replacing it with a revised version.

    Reduction gears are made of high precision mechanisms, and any problem with them result always in a great headache
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:41 pm


    I still think that they should should just order civilian RoRos in bulk from South Korea and tweak them.

    Large helipad, radar, comms, maybe CIWS and Paket-M and roll with it.

    Worked in Syria.

    Focus on LHDs in the meantime...

    marat

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  marat on Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:57 pm

    runaway wrote:There is no need to get excited, its just trouble with propulsion. We all know this ships long time of idle building status and so on, now it seems its almost ready except for minor trouble with propulsion.
    We also know they built these 6 kilo subs and 3 frigates for the BSF in good time. But with sanctions and low oil price they have had to make priorities, so I say again, nothing to get excited for.
    The ship will be transferred to Navy when the Navy is satisfied it works 100%, nothing strange.

    Well there ara a lot of reasons to be mad.
    Millions of good dollars were spent on ship which will be at half of his lifetime when accepted in service.

    That money surely could be spent much much better in military or in civilian project that would get benefits to Russia.

    All that stupid comments that all bugs have to be find and solved before ship is put in service can not denie fact that this project is just sinkhole for good resources.

    And Russia have no too much money to throw them just like that.

    And yes this is a good example how deep problems are in Russian shipbuilding industry. And some clowns are calling for 100.000T carriers while 8.000t landing ship is to big challenge.


    marat

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  marat on Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:03 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:More red meat for the Gren-ophobes!   Twisted Evil

    So member who are mad becouse this ( simple landing ship) cannot be build in 11 years are gren-phobes?

    So gren-philes would be those members which would be happy if this ship will be on testing stage for end of the time i guess? scratch
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:58 pm

    marat wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:More red meat for the Gren-ophobes!   Twisted Evil

    So member who are mad becouse this ( simple landing ship) cannot be build in 11 years are gren-phobes?

    Oh grow up...  the Gren is a victim of shifting priorities, lack of urgency, and a corresponding limited allocated resources.  We don't need to carry on like the sky is falling over one unloved tank landing ship...

    marat

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  marat on Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:24 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    marat wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:More red meat for the Gren-ophobes!   Twisted Evil

    So member who are mad becouse this ( simple landing ship) cannot be build in 11 years are gren-phobes?

    Oh grow up...  the Gren is a victim of shifting priorities, lack of urgency, and a corresponding limited allocated resources.  We don't need to carry on like the sky is falling over one unloved tank landing ship...

    Sky wouldnt fall even if Russia would lose its whole fleet ( as happened several times in last 100 or so years) but that is not excuse.

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