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    Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

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    kvs
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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:41 am

    What's populist about a policy statement? Serdyukov's turd pile would not have to be dealt with if the government adopted
    this position years ago.

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:33 am

    Sounds to me like he is saying out loud what most of the military in Russia would probably be thinking... relying on some western suppliers is just too subject to political interference and in future they should just buy a licence and produce it themselves...

    the potential for future collaboration is significant... imagine a joint 5th gen light fighter combining Russian and French technology, or cooperation in other areas... the French currently use 155mm laser guided artillery shells designed and made in Russia... perhaps the next generation small arms Russia is working on could be assisted by the French company that makes the FA MAS... adding production to include the French armed forces and those countries with french influence would open new markets for Russian rifles and would of course lead to France finally getting a better small arms family of weapons.

    All that future potential lost because of US pressure on Hollande.


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:19 am

    They won't rely on foreign equipment from now on. I think in the future at most, they might buy a licence for something to build themselves.

    The mistral deal was primaraly a political deal to demonstrate the economic benefits of cooperation with Russia....we're entering a different era now

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:56 am

    GarryB wrote:Sounds to me like he is saying out loud what most of the military in Russia would probably be thinking... relying on some western suppliers is just too subject to political interference and in future they should just buy a licence and produce it themselves...

    the potential for future collaboration is significant... imagine a joint 5th gen light fighter combining Russian and French technology, or cooperation in other areas... the French currently use 155mm laser guided artillery shells designed and made in Russia... perhaps the next generation small arms Russia is working on could be assisted by the French company that makes the FA MAS... adding production to include the French armed forces and those countries with french influence would open new markets for Russian rifles and would of course lead to France finally getting a better small arms family of weapons.

    All that future potential lost because of US pressure on Hollande.

    A joint deal between Russia and France for a light 5th gen fighter had no chance in hell of actually coming to fruition, even before the current crisis. When the Pentagon's rancid breath is breathing on the shoulder of the blubbering imbecile Mr.EscarGaul, aka Francois Hollande (a man who's envious of flat worm's for their back bone) who would of been pressured to junk the deal for the more politicized F-35 deal. Instead of pondering on 'what could of been', Mig's 5th gen fighter (which the blueprints have already been developed) could be shopped around the emerging economies. You could bring in Brazil, Indonesia, Egypt, South Africa to pick up 50% of the cost, while Russia picks up the other 50% and you'll see a program that actually has the potential to work (unlike the cooperation you'll have with EU/NATO countries).

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:40 am

    I agree it wont happen now... Mistral was a test and France has clearly failed even if it decides to deliver both vessels Russia has had its fingers burned and wont poke them into that fire again.

    Personally I think the light 5th gen fighter will probably go ahead even if Russia makes it on its own, simply because a lighter cheaper 5th gen fighter would be very useful and they can't keep making Mig-29s and Su-27s forever.

    A new from scratch design has already been developed that is inherently stealthy but should not cost the earth and that alone will make it rather more cost competitive on the international market which at the moment really only has 4+ gen fighters and the ridiculously expensive F-35 available right now.

    It is a bit like the C-17 being so expensive that any other transport aircraft design in the 80 ton payload range would sell well to the rest of the world.

    If European countries withdraw from the EU then there comes potential for them to not want to be controlled via NATO either and to become rather more independent in thought and action instead of being led by the nose by Washington.

    Sadly, I thought France would be a leader in being independent of thought and able to stand up for its own citizens interests... but no.


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  wilhelm on Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:12 pm

    medo wrote:

    It would be good to buy a license for Dokdos and modify them for Russian needs and build them in Russian shipyards. As Dokdo is smaller than Mistral, they could replace 1 Mistral with 2 Dokdo ships.

    Aren't the Mistral and Dokdo pretty much the same with regards to size and lift capability?

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:53 am

    According to Wiki it can carry up to 700 naval infantry, 10 tanks, 7 IFVs, 10 trucks, and 2 hovercraft, plus 10 helos.

    Also according to Wiki the Mistral can carry up to 900 naval infantry, and about 50 armoured vehicles including tanks and also 16 helicopters, plus two landing ships (high speed cats).

    the Dokdo has an advantage of potentially being able to carry VSTOL aircraft, but as Russia has no VSTOL aircraft that advantage is moot.


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  medo on Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:According to Wiki it can carry up to 700 naval infantry, 10 tanks, 7 IFVs, 10 trucks, and 2 hovercraft, plus 10 helos.

    Also according to Wiki the Mistral can carry up to 900 naval infantry, and about 50 armoured vehicles including tanks and also 16 helicopters, plus two landing ships (high speed cats).

    the Dokdo has an advantage of potentially being able to carry VSTOL aircraft, but as Russia has no VSTOL aircraft that advantage is moot.

    If needed, Russia could reactivate Yak-141 program and modernize it for today needs.

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Mike E on Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:34 pm

    VSTOL is a waste of time and compromises the aircraft, no exceptions.

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:19 am

    Enormous waste of money and resources to create an inherently inferior aircraft.

    I would suggest a Ka-52N with active radar jammers, an AESA radar and DIRCM, plus a couple of R-77Ms and 9M100s would be a far more formidable air threat and more importantly would be rather better able to support an amphibious assault than a fighter jet.

    the Yak-141 would never be the combination it needs to be... an Su-25 and a PAK FA.

    With a fixed wing carrier however they could have both.


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:39 am

    medo wrote:
    GarryB wrote:According to Wiki it can carry up to 700 naval infantry, 10 tanks, 7 IFVs, 10 trucks, and 2 hovercraft, plus 10 helos.

    Also according to Wiki the Mistral can carry up to 900 naval infantry, and about 50 armoured vehicles including tanks and also 16 helicopters, plus two landing ships (high speed cats).

    the Dokdo has an advantage of potentially being able to carry VSTOL aircraft, but as Russia has no VSTOL aircraft that advantage is moot.

    If needed, Russia could reactivate Yak-141 program and modernize it for today needs.

    isnt it obsolete for this era?

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:45 am

    GarryB wrote:Enormous waste of money and resources to create an inherently inferior aircraft.

    I would suggest a Ka-52N with active radar jammers, an AESA radar and DIRCM, plus a couple of R-77Ms and 9M100s would be a far more formidable air threat and more importantly would be rather better able to support an amphibious assault than a fighter jet.

    the Yak-141 would never be the combination it needs to be... an Su-25 and a PAK FA.

    With a fixed wing carrier however they could have both.

    Well it already has radar jammers and AESA and DIRCM, at least the Ka-52K which should come this december should be already equipped with AESA radars and implementing R-77 shouldn't be hard if it already can launch R-73, Kh-25,Kh-35,Kh-31AD and Kh-38.

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  medo on Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:01 am

    Russia doesn't need VTOL Yak-141. It was just a hypothetical answer on Dokdo VTOL aircraft capabilities. But with some modernizations VTOL Yak-141 could not be much worse than VTOL F-35. Placing new RWR, MAWS, LWR, jammers, DIRCM and chaff and flares launchers for self protection and Zhuk radar from MiG-29K and you get quite a decent fighter.

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:55 am

    Russia doesn't need VTOL Yak-141. It was just a hypothetical answer on Dokdo VTOL aircraft capabilities. But with some modernizations VTOL Yak-141 could not be much worse than VTOL F-35. Placing new RWR, MAWS, LWR, jammers, DIRCM and chaff and flares launchers for self protection and Zhuk radar from MiG-29K and you get quite a decent fighter.

    Ahhh, I get it.

    To be honest all the problems and issues and time and money needed to revive the VSTOL fighter just make it a technology dead end for Russia.

    If they want fixed wing aircraft on light carriers then UCAVs make rather more sense... for a small vessel air power offers two advantages... extra reach and extra vision, but quite frankly an S-400 large missile with 400km range reaches out further and faster than most VSTOL aircraft ever could and the issue with lack of sensor vision can be dealt with using HALE UAVs operated from Russian territory or from a nearby full carrier... perhaps even an airship version that flies at very high altitude with long wave long range radar at 40,000m or higher would be a much more useful solution.


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:22 am

    Project 11711 'Ivan Gren' landing ship will be transferred to the Russian Navy at the end of 2015

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Viktor on Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:52 pm

    Second of the class thumbsup

    In Kaliningrad, construction began on the second ship like "Ivan Gren"

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  zg18 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:15 pm

    Work on the ship restarted


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:43 pm

    Not much changes for a long time.

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:37 pm

    medo wrote:Not much changes for a long time.

    Very Happy it seems that this ship will be completed in 2020s...

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:08 pm

    2nd ship of the project 11711 "Peter Morgunov." will be laid on Thursday, June 11

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:16 am

    "Peter Morgunov" officially laid.









    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1337926.html

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:54 am

    Russian Navy to get large landing ship Pyotr Morgunov in 2018

    MOSCOW, June 11. /TASS/. The Russian Navy will get the Pyotr Morgunov large landing ship, laid down on Thursday at the Kaliningrad-based Yantar shipyard, in 2018, head of Navy’s shipbuilding department Vladimir Tryapichnikov told reporters.

    "The Pyotr Morgunov large landing ship is planned to be transferred to the Navy in 2018, after the completion of the vessel building and all stages of testing. The project’s lead ship - the Ivan Gren is in the final stage of construction and will be delivered to the Navy after trials at the end 2015," he said.

    Vessels of the Ivan Gren class have a displacement of 5,000 tonnes. Such a ship can support over-the-beach landing of up to 300 marines, 40 armored personnel carriers or 13 tanks and carry the Kamov Ka-29 type helicopter on the deck. The landing ships are armed with a 76-mm naval gun, two 30-mm AK-630 antiaircraft mounts and multiple artillery rocket systems.

    The Pyotr Morgunov will have modern cranes for loading equipment, which also can be loaded on the ship through the bow ramp. "The vessel has significantly improved living conditions for accommodation and accommodation of the crew, commandos and marines. Its cruising range is up to 4,000 miles, which will allow the ship to fulfil tasks in the off-shore maritime zone. The Pyotr Morgunov large landing ship can also carry a transport-combat helicopter," said Tryapichnikov.

    The Russian Navy will receive by 2020 the first new-generation landing ship that will be many times heavier than the Ivan Gren class vessels and will be able to carry several helicopters, Tryapichnikov told reporters earlier on Thursday.

    "The construction of new-generation large landing ships will be launched within the next five years, and these ships will many times surpass in displacement the Ivan Gren and Pyotr Morgunov large landing ships, have higher landing force compatibility and will be able to carry not one, but several helicopters," Tryapichnikov said.

    According to him, the first ship of this class is to be built by 2020. "It will be a new project for the ‘large landing ship’ class," he said.

    Director General of the Nevsky Design Bureau Sergei Vlasov told TASS in an interview that the bureau was working on the project of a next-generation landing ship worth 20 million roubles ($365,240). In addition, a high-ranking defence industry source told TASS previously that the designing and building of national amphibious assault helicopter ships was included in the country’s long-term naval construction programme for the period until 2050.

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:08 pm

    Russian Navy will reduce the number of planned construction of ships of project 11711 (head "Ivan Gren") from six to two.

    So "Peter Morgunov" will be the 2nd and the last one.


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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:15 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian Navy will reduce the number of planned construction of ships of project 11711 (head "Ivan Gren") from six to two.

    So "Peter Morgunov" will be the 2nd and the last one.

    Makes sense. Priboy will be in the same class but will also carry helicopters. They probably need to clear out some space in dry docks.

    They will finish these two because those old soviet troop carriers need replacement ASAP

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    Re: Project 11711E: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:37 pm


    АК-630М-2 installed on Ivan Gren



    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/66278/

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