Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    T-90 MBT: News

    Share

    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4468
    Points : 4659
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    T-90 MBT: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:59 pm

    For people wondering about the advancements of T-90SM over T-90S:


    KRATOS1133
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 39
    Points : 56
    Join date : 2011-08-11
    Location : Algeria

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  KRATOS1133 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:35 am


    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3233
    Points : 3357
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:37 am



    awesome video of T-90ms.. thanks.  Smile 

    Still Can't wait for the armata video.... Very Happy 

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3233
    Points : 3357
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:38 pm



    Anyone knows if the Russian army use Arena protection in their active T-90a in service ?
    Saw the parade in 2014 and didn't noticed their tanks using Arena.. any know?


    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Mike E on Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:56 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Anyone knows if the Russian army use Arena protection in their active T-90a in service ?
    Saw the parade in 2014 and didn't noticed their tanks using Arena.. any know?

    I don't think they do... I could be wrong though.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:40 am

    ARENA has been completely redesigned and is a much lower profile system that is rather less obvious.

    Armata will have a new APS system called Afghanistan.

    ARENA will be for export.

    Standard will be used for lighter domestic vehicles (Kurganets, Boomerang, Typhoon).


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:ARENA has been completely redesigned and is a much lower profile system that is rather less obvious.

    Armata will have a new APS system called Afghanistan.

    ARENA will be for export.

    Standard will be used for lighter domestic vehicles (Kurganets, Boomerang, Typhoon).
    That makes sense... Only question I have is why it will be called "Afghanistan".

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:07 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    GarryB wrote:ARENA has been completely redesigned and is a much lower profile system that is rather less obvious.

    Armata will have a new APS system called Afghanistan.

    ARENA will be for export.

    Standard will be used for lighter domestic vehicles (Kurganets, Boomerang, Typhoon).
    That makes sense... Only question I have is why it will be called "Afghanistan".

    Direct experience they have made with DROZD in afghanistan.

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:12 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    GarryB wrote:ARENA has been completely redesigned and is a much lower profile system that is rather less obvious.

    Armata will have a new APS system called Afghanistan.

    ARENA will be for export.

    Standard will be used for lighter domestic vehicles (Kurganets, Boomerang, Typhoon).
    That makes sense... Only question I have is why it will be called "Afghanistan".

    Direct experience they have made with DROZD in afghanistan.
    Figured... Next thing you know, Israel is going to come out with the "Gaza" APS system...

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3233
    Points : 3357
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:05 am

    GarryB wrote:ARENA has been completely redesigned and is a much lower profile system that is rather less obvious.

    Armata will have a new APS system called Afghanistan.

    ARENA will be for export.

    Standard will be used for lighter domestic vehicles (Kurganets, Boomerang, Typhoon).

    So no Russian tank in active service in the Russian army ,have any active protection system?
    any active protection until now is only for exports market? and if yes is the question ..why? Makes no
    sense to wait for Armata to have active protection specially knowing they will not have them in enough numbers for at least a couple or more years..

    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4468
    Points : 4659
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:31 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:ARENA has been completely redesigned and is a much lower profile system that is rather less obvious.

    Armata will have a new APS system called Afghanistan.

    ARENA will be for export.

    Standard will be used for lighter domestic vehicles (Kurganets, Boomerang, Typhoon).

    So no Russian tank in active service  in the Russian army  ,have any active protection system?
    any active protection until now is only for exports market?  and if yes is the question ..why? Makes no
    sense to wait for Armata to have active protection specially knowing they will not have them in enough numbers for at least a couple or more years..

    Actually I think GarryB stated that the tank factories in Russia are capable of producing thousands of tanks a year, and they haven't done so because no one has demanded thousands of tanks a year. But at the same time your right, they'll have to refit the factories first with new machinery and plant equipment, which will at least take 2 years in totality (Some factories will be able to refit quicker and might be able to produce Armata platforms right away.)

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Mike E on Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:35 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:ARENA has been completely redesigned and is a much lower profile system that is rather less obvious.

    Armata will have a new APS system called Afghanistan.

    ARENA will be for export.

    Standard will be used for lighter domestic vehicles (Kurganets, Boomerang, Typhoon).

    So no Russian tank in active service  in the Russian army  ,have any active protection system?
    any active protection until now is only for exports market?  and if yes is the question ..why? Makes no
    sense to wait for Armata to have active protection specially knowing they will not have them in enough numbers for at least a couple or more years..

    Actually I think GarryB stated that the tank factories in Russia are capable of producing thousands of tanks a year, and they haven't done so because no one has demanded thousands of tanks a year. But at the same time your right, they'll have to refit the factories first with new machinery and plant equipment, which will at least take 2 years in totality (Some factories will be able to refit quicker and might be able to produce Armata platforms right away.)
    So far Russia has proven its ability to retool factories, the only thing we have to do is wait!

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:51 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:ARENA has been completely redesigned and is a much lower profile system that is rather less obvious.

    Armata will have a new APS system called Afghanistan.

    ARENA will be for export.

    Standard will be used for lighter domestic vehicles (Kurganets, Boomerang, Typhoon).

    So no Russian tank in active service  in the Russian army  ,have any active protection system?
    any active protection until now is only for exports market?  and if yes is the question ..why? Makes no
    sense to wait for Armata to have active protection specially knowing they will not have them in enough numbers for at least a couple or more years..

    T-90A has active protective system.

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Mike E on Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:00 am

    Of what kind? Info on the T-90A's APS is scarce.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:09 am

    Mike E wrote:Of what kind? Info on the T-90A's APS is scarce.

    Arena.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:10 am

    Mike E wrote:Of what kind? Info on the T-90A's APS is scarce.

    Shtora


    Asf
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 488
    Points : 515
    Join date : 2014-03-27

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Asf on Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:38 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Of what kind? Info on the T-90A's APS is scarce.

    Arena.

    Only shtora. Arena can be installed, but it isn't


    ..why? Makes no sense

    Because Russia isn't planning to fight a real war right now, so there is no need in spending money to increase protection of tanks which in fact are temporary solution before Armata and other new vehicles. That's what MoD is thinking imho

    higurashihougi
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2130
    Points : 2245
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:32 am

    The military has dumped the T-90AM for the sake of Armata, with this it is easy to not see the most modern APS in the current T-90... except the export models.

    Although I see that T-90AM is a very good model. May be Russia want something to be a real technological breakthrough.

    Wonder if Vietnam will buy some T-90AM from Russia Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    Asf
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 488
    Points : 515
    Join date : 2014-03-27

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Asf on Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:28 pm

    May be Russia want something to be a real technological breakthrough.

    seems so

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Mike E on Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:40 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:The military has dumped the T-90AM for the sake of Armata, with this it is easy to not see the most modern APS in the current T-90... except the export models.

    Although I see that T-90AM is a very good model. May be Russia want something to be a real technological breakthrough.

    Wonder if Vietnam will buy some T-90AM from Russia Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
    Could be, NAM' has expressed interest in T-90's before!

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3233
    Points : 3357
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:13 pm

    Asf wrote:

    Because Russia isn't planning to fight a real war right now.., so there is no need in spending money to increase protection of tanks which in fact are temporary solution before Armata and other new vehicles. That's what MoD is thinking imho


    But war is something you do not plan many times , it just Happens.. .  Look at Georgia war in 2008.. did Russia planned that war? No.. it just happened and they had no choice but to send tanks without proper protection
    and get more casualties . And now you have Ukraine.. that are already the radicals bombing Russian territory.. with casualties..  If they start a major genocide ,lets say they bomb Donetsk/Lugansk Chemical industrial Plants it will create a major catastrophe with thousands of civilians killed and probably with RUssia territory also affected forcing Russia to invade to restore order.. not as a planned thing but as a unplanned one..

    So it make no sense why Russia do not use Arena at least on their T-90 tanks.. Today more than ever Tanks will be a more important weapon for Russia even than SUbmarine or warships because of a major war happening in their borders. ,that at any time they could be forced to just like in georgia Invade.

    leaving their T-90 tanks totally unarmed from arena active protection is a really bad choice.. because their Armata will no see action for a least 3 to 5 years in a real war. until they manage to sell it first in enough numbers. It will be ugly if NATO send top attack anti tank weapons in the thousands to Ukraine and they are forced to invade with no defense against top attack weapon .


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Mike E on Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:17 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Asf wrote:

    Because Russia isn't planning to fight a real war right now.., so there is no need in spending money to increase protection of tanks which in fact are temporary solution before Armata and other new vehicles. That's what MoD is thinking imho


    But war is something you do not plan many times , it just Happens.. .  Look at Georgia war in 2008.. did Russia planned that war? No.. it just happened and they had no choice but to send tanks without proper protection
    and get more casualties . And now you have Ukraine.. that are already the radicals bombing Russian territory.. with casualties..  If they start a major genocide ,lets say they bomb Donetsk/Lugansk Chemical industrial Plants it will create a major catastrophe with thousands of civilians killed and probably with RUssia territory also affected forcing Russia to invade to restore order.. not as a planned thing but as a unplanned one..

    So it make no sense why Russia do not use Arena at least on their T-90 tanks.. Today more than ever Tanks will be a more important weapon for Russia even than SUbmarine or warships because of a major war happening in their borders. ,that at any time they could be forced to just like in georgia Invade.

    leaving their T-90 tanks totally unarmed from active protection is a really bad choice.. because their Armata will no see action for a least 3 to 5 years in a real war. until they manage to sell it first in enough numbers.
    Tanks mean next to nothing... ICBMs do!

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3233
    Points : 3357
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:25 pm

    [quote="Mike E"]
    Vann7 wrote:
    Asf wrote:

    Because Russia isn't planning to fight a real war right now.., so there is no need in spending money to increase protection of tanks which in fact are temporary solution before Armata and other new vehicles. That's what MoD is thinking imho


    Tanks mean next to nothing... ICBMs do!

    CAn ICBMs help end the war in eastern Ukraine? No.. can it save the civilians being killed everyday? no.
    If Russia is forced to invade they will not be armed on their optimal way..with their armed forces.. they will have to use tanks as artillery to fire from far distance and to avoid top attack weapons.

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Mike E on Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:27 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    Asf wrote:

    Because Russia isn't planning to fight a real war right now.., so there is no need in spending money to increase protection of tanks which in fact are temporary solution before Armata and other new vehicles. That's what MoD is thinking imho


    Tanks mean next to nothing... ICBMs do!

    CAn ICBMs help end the war in eastern Ukraine? No.. can it save the civilians being killed everyday? no.
    If Russia is forced to invade they will not be armed on their optimal way..with their armed forces.. they will have to use tanks as artillery to fire from far distance and to avoid top attack weapons.
    No, but aircraft are still more important than tanks in a conflict such as Ukraine...

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:27 am

    So no Russian tank in active service in the Russian army ,have any active protection system?
    any active protection until now is only for exports market? and if yes is the question ..why? Makes no
    sense to wait for Armata to have active protection specially knowing they will not have them in enough numbers for at least a couple or more years..

    When fitted with ERA most Russian tanks don't need APS... the problem has been where they have not been fitted with ERA blocks... then they would not likely have APS munitions either so...

    Drozd was tested operationally in Afghanistan and was found to be 70% effective in stopping enemy anti armour weapons.

    APS systems to date have been independent of tank design and can be considered an extra layer of protection that can be added if there is deemed to be a need... the fact that they are upgrading old T-72s rather than buying all new T-90AMs suggests they don't want to waste money now that can be used later on new generation stuff.

    Mass production of Armata will likely start next year and it likely wont take too long to produce large numbers of vehicles.

    Actually I think GarryB stated that the tank factories in Russia are capable of producing thousands of tanks a year, and they haven't done so because no one has demanded thousands of tanks a year. But at the same time your right, they'll have to refit the factories first with new machinery and plant equipment, which will at least take 2 years in totality (Some factories will be able to refit quicker and might be able to produce Armata platforms right away.)

    You have to keep in mind that armata is not just a tank... every vehicle in an Armata brigade will be based on the armata chassis, so armata units will likely enter service a brigade at a time.

    Because Russia isn't planning to fight a real war right now, so there is no need in spending money to increase protection of tanks which in fact are temporary solution before Armata and other new vehicles. That's what MoD is thinking imho

    X2.

    Remember even if they had Arena on half their operational vehicles that would not have mattered in Georgia 8.8.8 because the local vehicles were used and they would not likely be fitted with APS.

    Although I see that T-90AM is a very good model. May be Russia want something to be a real technological breakthrough.

    The Russian government spent money on fixing as many existing problems as possible and also for a new generation from scratch design solution... they did it across the board... the Su-35 is a total upgrade of Su-27, the MiG-35 is a total upgrade of the MiG-29, the PAK FA is the next generation.

    Now odds are that the PAK FA will be too expensive to be the standard fighter, so in this case everybody wins.

    In the case of tanks however, the T-90AM is a very capable but also expensive tank and depending on how much armata costs I am sure they will decide later whether to mass produce the Armata and get it into full service quickly, or to feed it into service slower and produce some T-90AMs as a stopgap till the newer vehicles can be made ready.

    Keep in mind that the Armata probably will make up maybe 20% of the vehicle fleet, with Kurganets and Boomerang 80% and Typhoon 20%.

    I rather suspect to keep operational costs down the Boomerang will be 60% and the Kurganets 20% or possibly 50% Boomerang 30% Kurganets... simply because with similar armour and armament the wheeled Boomerang should be cheaper and easier to maintain and operate.

    Assuming 50% boomerang and 30% Kurganets, then we are talking about a force with 70% wheeled vehicles for excellent mobility in urban areas and areas with a well developed road system... and also much lower operational costs and fuel costs.

    But war is something you do not plan many times , it just Happens.. . Look at Georgia war in 2008.. did Russia planned that war? No.. it just happened and they had no choice but to send tanks without proper protection
    and get more casualties . And now you have Ukraine.. that are already the radicals bombing Russian territory.. with casualties.. If they start a major genocide ,lets say they bomb Donetsk/Lugansk Chemical industrial Plants it will create a major catastrophe with thousands of civilians killed and probably with RUssia territory also affected forcing Russia to invade to restore order.. not as a planned thing but as a unplanned one..

    So it make no sense why Russia do not use Arena at least on their T-90 tanks.. Today more than ever Tanks will be a more important weapon for Russia even than SUbmarine or warships because of a major war happening in their borders. ,that at any time they could be forced to just like in georgia Invade.

    leaving their T-90 tanks totally unarmed from arena active protection is a really bad choice.. because their Armata will no see action for a least 3 to 5 years in a real war. until they manage to sell it first in enough numbers. It will be ugly if NATO send top attack anti tank weapons in the thousands to Ukraine and they are forced to invade with no defense against top attack weapon .

    There were no T-90s in Georgia... they used tanks from the local tank units which don't include T90s.

    It is a question of cost effectiveness... would it make sense to spend millions of dollars to fit half your tanks with ARENA and buy up all the munitions you need, and issue them because their might be a war? Does it make sense to put ARENA into service when you are spending money on new APS systems intended to defeat threats ARENA is not designed to defend against?

    ARENA likely would not stop Javelin... one of the reasons they didn't adopt it...

    CAn ICBMs help end the war in eastern Ukraine? No.. can it save the civilians being killed everyday? no.
    If Russia is forced to invade they will not be armed on their optimal way..with their armed forces.. they will have to use tanks as artillery to fire from far distance and to avoid top attack weapons.

    You have eyes and ears... how long have the rabble that the nazi leadership in Kiev call the Ukrainian Army been trying to move rebels from their "strongpoints"?

    Shelling civilians from afar suggests to me frustration and ineptitude... faced with the Russian military these nazi mercs would fold.

    In many ways the sit back and shell method was also used in Georgia and it was less than 5 days to deal with them... and I would suggest the Georgian military was a more professional unit than the volunteers in the Ukrainian army... though even the georgians probably didn't want to die for Saakashvili.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Sponsored content

    Re: T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 2:04 am


      Current date/time is Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:04 am