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    PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

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    walle83

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  walle83 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:05 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    walle83 wrote:

    Ok, now u r starting to sound like a troll.

    China started its SSBN patrols in 2015. https://thediplomat.com/2015/12/china-deploys-first-nuclear-deterrence-patrol/
    I never heard about any 094 sub sinking in any harbor, source please?
    Fake space walk and bubbles?? Give us a break Laughing

    You might want to be careful who you are calling a troll.  Consider that fair warning.  Now if you want to have a serious discussion you can refer back the Xia class which sank during testing.  China has had SSBNs far longer than 2015 but they never patrolled because they were afraid they would be lost at sea like the first one.  


    https://books.google.com/books?id=V9nsypAwGGYC&pg=PA168&lpg=PA168&dq=Type+092+sunk+jane%27s&source=bl&ots=94JsPZ9AQ0&sig=roORnALWa36Ioej-JW13AFwyq0c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8otjf9rTcAhXnx1kKHTyMC3wQ6AEIRjAG#v=onepage&q=Type%20092%20sunk%20jane's&f=false

    Fake space walk



    Im shaking.
    Xia class? Im talking about recent history not 35 years ago. You cant honestly compare chinas navy from 1985 to today?
    Today PLAs ssbns are patroling. How often and how far can be debated. They aint sinking in any harbor thats for sure.
    Yeah im seing a youtube clip where someone is desperately trying to find something wrong. All I see is space debris and camera lights.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:18 pm

    walle83 wrote:

    Im shaking.
    Xia class? Im talking about recent history not 35 years ago. You cant honestly compare chinas navy from 1985 to today?
    Today PLAs ssbns are patroling. How often and how far can be debated. They aint sinking in any harbor thats for sure.
    Yeah im seing a youtube clip where someone is desperately trying to find something wrong. All I see is space debris and camera lights.

    That is good.  You will remember to maintain civil discourse on my forum.  

    I think I can compare their navy from then to now when the rest of the world has not been sitting still.  The disparity in technology only grows as the years progress.  China had access to all of the best equipment from Europe until Tienanmen.   The sonars and surface engines they are using now are of that vintage as they still make the same ones under license from France who still maintains nearly $200 million a year in arms exports using pre-Tienanmen licenses.  Space debris fly in a single trajectory, those were moving around like bubbles.  You would see camera lights in a studio and clouds that move at 10X speed for a production, which is what it was.

    walle83

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  walle83 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:47 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    walle83 wrote:

    Im shaking.
    Xia class? Im talking about recent history not 35 years ago. You cant honestly compare chinas navy from 1985 to today?
    Today PLAs ssbns are patroling. How often and how far can be debated. They aint sinking in any harbor thats for sure.
    Yeah im seing a youtube clip where someone is desperately trying to find something wrong. All I see is space debris and camera lights.

    That is good.  You will remember to maintain civil discourse on my forum.  

    I think I can compare their navy from then to now when the rest of the world has not been sitting still.  The disparity in technology only grows as the years progress.  China had access to all of the best equipment from Europe until Tienanmen.   The sonars and surface engines they are using now are of that vintage as they still make the same ones under license from France who still maintains nearly $200 million a year in arms exports using pre-Tienanmen licenses.  Space debris fly in a single trajectory, those were moving around like bubbles.  You would see camera lights in a studio and clouds that move at 10X speed for a production, which is what it was.  

    Lets just agree to disagree on that part.

    As i stated before, one should look at the goals and the direction the Chines are moving against. And with what speed. When looking at that bigger picture the PLAN is moving ahead with light speed in comparesment with 98% of the rest of the worlds navies. With 22+ destroyers, 25+ frigates, ~40 corvettes, 4 SSBN, 4-6 SSN, 10-15 SSK, 5 large LPD ships and 2 large aircraft carriers launched or deployed in the last 8-10 years even you must agree that the PLA is doing quite good.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:43 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Calling ethnic Chinese from Myanmar as combat experience for the Chinese military, now that is funny.  Anti-piracy patrols is an action for a Coast Guard, not a Navy.
    No, those r demobilized or soldiers "on leave" from the PLA:
    https://www.rfa.org/english/news/myanmar/recruit-03242015121255.html

    http://nvo.ng.ru/wars/2016-10-28/1_924_china.html?print=Y

    The Chinese were fighting there since 1960: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960%E2%80%9361_campaign_at_the_China%E2%80%93Burma_border

    Their CG is used in SE Asia, but off E. Africa, the PLAN ships r deployed: http://www.atimes.com/anti-piracy-mission-helps-china-develop-blue-water-navy/
    https://www.cna.org/cna_files/pdf/D0020834.A1.pdf

    Their SSBNs r conducting deterrent patrols, SSNs deploy to the Indian Ocean, & an ice strengthened ship sailed in the Arctic & Antarctic. http://www.a-pln.org/activities/activities_view/China%E2%80%99s_Sea-Based_Nuclear_Deterrent

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/14-chinese-navy-ships-spotted-in-indian-ocean-indian-navy-monitoring-locations/articleshow/61882634.cms

    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/north/story/indian-navy-chinese-nuclear-sub-indian-ocean-185695-2014-03-21

    https://thediplomat.com/2015/04/chinese-nuclear-subs-in-the-indian-ocean/

    http://www.chinare.gov.cn/english/gb_article.php?modid=15001

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/01/140103-antarctica-ship-icebreakers-science-ice-trapped/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Xue_Long

    Their probe was intentionally crashed into the lunar surface:
    https://www.space.com/2320-china-moon-probe-crashes-lunar-surface.html
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:57 pm

    walle83 wrote:22+ destroyers,
    25+ frigates,
    ~40 corvettes,
    4 SSBN,
    4-6 SSN,
    10-15 SSK,
    5 large LPD ships
    and 2 large aircraft carriers

    launched or deployed in the last 8-10 years even you must agree that the PLA is doing quite good.

    Looking at the results of their massive build up they are left with two carriers without planes, submarines that are so loud the Japanese are forcing them to surface in total embarrassment, destroyers that are breaking down and being towed back from the Indian Ocean, LPDs with an LCAC that can only carry a fraction of traditional ones and a bunch of missile boats that are little more than target practice for any modern navy. The Chinese greatest weakness on the water is not the lack of carrier aviation but lack of quality ASW. They are relying on antiquated French helicopter ASW from the late 80s which are practically useless against modern SSNs and SSKs which would wreak havoc on Chinese shipping lanes. Any one of their fleets could be wiped out by one or two SSNs.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:14 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Any one of their fleets could be wiped out by one or two SSNs.  

    A single SSN cannot wipe anything near that. Their ASW is decent enough, combining French, Russian and Israeli tech that they imported and reverse-engineered in the 90s and 00s.

    Only Type 56A corvette, sports bow, towed array and variable depth sonars; and they're building them at crazy rates.
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    Isos

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Isos on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:22 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    walle83 wrote:22+ destroyers,
    25+ frigates,
    ~40 corvettes,
    4 SSBN,
    4-6 SSN,
    10-15 SSK,
    5 large LPD ships
    and 2 large aircraft carriers

    launched or deployed in the last 8-10 years even you must agree that the PLA is doing quite good.

    Looking at the results of their massive build up they are left with two carriers without planes, submarines that are so loud the Japanese are forcing them to surface in total embarrassment, destroyers that are breaking down and being towed back from the Indian Ocean, LPDs with an LCAC that can only carry a fraction of traditional ones and a bunch of missile boats that are little more than target practice for any modern navy.  The Chinese greatest weakness on the water is not the lack of carrier aviation but lack of quality ASW.  They are relying on antiquated French helicopter ASW from the late 80s which are practically useless against modern SSNs and SSKs which would wreak havoc on Chinese shipping lanes.  Any one of their fleets could be wiped out by one or two SSNs.  

    That's why they are building armed islands and long range ( stealth ??) J-20 able to launch massive anti ship missile attacks to keep US away.

    To attack a ship you need long range airborne radars that they have. And anti ship missile that are either very good or present in big numbers with some ECCM to find their targets. US navy has to invest much more to defend their carriers while 30 j-20 and 100 missiles are cheap in comparison to tens of arleigh burks and 10 carriers and other assests.


    They also have russian made modern kilo class, some of their frigates have russian made s-300, the same top russian ships have.

    Missile boats operating near bigger ships that protect them with long range missile are deadly. They bring a big firepower quickly.

    Chinese top leaders were and are always very good at analyzing situations and they know whatthey can do and what they can't.

    Quality is very bad in china but they have the numbers and this could make a lot of dammage to any enemy. At least near their shores and around Taiwan.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:29 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    No, those r demobilized or soldiers "on leave" from the PLA:

    You can post all the Chinese news you want, it doesn't change the fact that the PLA and all of its branches have not been in combat in nearly 40 years.  On a side note I highly doubt the CCP is actively trying to instigate something with the good friends in Myanmar, that would be a serious political blunder on their part.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:32 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:

    A single SSN cannot wipe anything near that. Their ASW is decent enough, combining French, Russian and Israeli tech that they imported and reverse-engineered in the 90s and 00s.

    Only Type 56A corvette, sports bow, towed array and variable depth sonars; and they're building them at crazy rates.

    The weapon the US Navy fears most are Russian attack submarines and for good reason. Western SSNs going after China is a cake walk. Western SSNs are stealthy even against the latest Thales CAPTAS towed arrays, China doesn't have anything in that league.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:41 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:The weapon the US Navy fears most are Russian attack submarines and for good reason.  Western SSNs going after China is a cake walk.  Western SSNs are stealthy even against the latest Thales CAPTAS towed arrays, China doesn't have anything in that league.  

    They fear them cause

    a. it makes funding flow to their budget
    b. they can't be seen in the media as loosing even a single destroyer, even though they operate over 60 of them - flawed logic imo.

    In reality the Russian SSN fleet is small, partially obsolete and thus weak. I mean in the Pacific there's only 4 of them, meaning only one can be actively patrolling, most of the time.


    Last edited by KiloGolf on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:45 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Western SSNs are stealthy even against the latest Thales CAPTAS towed arrays, China doesn't have anything in that league.  

    Western SSNs cruising around the South China Sea or Yellow Sea are not stealthy, they will be detected eventually, same for Soviet era Akula I.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:25 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:They fear them cause

    a. it makes funding flow to their budget
    b. they can't be seen in the media as loosing even a single destroyer, even though they operate over 60 of them - flawed logic imo.

    In reality the Russian SSN fleet is small, partially obsolete and thus weak. I mean in the Pacific there's only 4 of them, meaning only one can be actively patrolling, most of the time.

    Western SSNs cruising around the South China Sea or Yellow Sea are not stealthy, they will be detected eventually, same for Soviet era Akula I.

    The Oscars and Akulas in the Pacific Fleet would decimate the PLAN. They can't stop it due to their weak ASW capabilities. Even the US Report to Congress on China lists that as one of their greatest weaknesses.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:30 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    No, those r demobilized or soldiers "on leave" from the PLA:

    You can post all the Chinese news you want, it doesn't change the fact that the PLA and all of its branches have not been in combat in nearly 40 years.
    Those soldiers will return from Myanmar & train the others. The same with sailors that been on overseas cruises. They have the #s, & even with high losses in a new conflict, replacements can take their place.
    Back in the 1970s, China could mobilize 65M people into the armed forces. A real tiger can intimidate any1 by its size, looks, roar & mere presence w/o doing anything else. A country with its #2 economy in the world doesn't have to be aggressive to get most of what it wants from others. Look at recent developments in both Koreas & Philippines in their relations with China. It's not over yet- the others like Taiwan, Vietnam, & Indonesia will also fall in line.
    Once they build a few nuclear icebreakers, the NSR & Panama/Suez canals can be bypassed between the PRC & Europe. With their new OBOR network they won't even need very big navy to protect SLOCs.
    Also, big Chinese diaspora all over the world can be an asset the others don't have. Let me ask: was the USSR a paper tiger while bleeding in Afghanistan? Is the USA a paper tiger while bleeding & not winning in Canada (war of 1812), Korea, Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan? In the last 2 World Wars in Europe, the USA joined at the last possible moment, preserving itself, and economically dominating the world as a result. Now China, by the same token, not having been fighting in the last 40 years, is slowly but surely is taking its place, especially in the Asia-Pacific.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:38 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:The Oscars and Akulas in the Pacific Fleet would decimate the PLAN.  They can't stop it due to their weak ASW capabilities.  Even the US Report to Congress on China lists that as one of their greatest weaknesses.  

    Based on their number there can never more than 4 (or 5 at the very best) of PF SSNs and SSGNs at sea at any given time. So no, they can't do any of that to the PLAN e.g. in East China sea. They can sink some ships if they're lucky, but ultimately, with increasing numbers of Y-8Q flying around, as the PLAN corvette/frigate/destroyer force is huge and with a good dozen of Kilos patrolling, RuN subs will be decimated.


    Last edited by KiloGolf on Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:43 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Those soldiers will return from Myanmar & train the others. The same with sailors that been on overseas cruises. They have the #s, & even with high losses in a new conflict, replacements can take their place.
    Back in the 1970s, China could mobilize 65M people into the armed forces. A real tiger can intimidate any1 by its size, looks, roar & mere presence w/o doing anything else. A country with its #2 economy in the world doesn't have to be aggressive to get most of what it wants from others. Look at recent developments in both Koreas & Philippines in their relations with China. It's not over yet- the others like Taiwan, Vietnam, & Indonesia will also fall in line.
    Once they build a few nuclear icebreakers, the NSR & Panama/Suez canals can be bypassed between the PRC & Europe. With their new OBOR network they won't even need very big navy to protect SLOCs.
    Also, big Chinese diaspora all over the world can be an asset the others don't have. Let me ask: was the USSR a paper tiger while bleeding in Afghanistan? Is the USA a paper tiger while bleeding & not winning in Canada (war of 1812), Korea, Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan? In the last 2 World Wars in Europe, the USA joined at the last possible moment, preserving itself, and economically dominating the world as a result. Now China, by the same token, not having been fighting in the last 40 years, is slowly but surely is taking its place, especially in the Asia-Pacific.
     

    Good for those soldiers. Fighting with a rebel army on their own time doesn't give them combat experience. It gives them terrorism experience and getting caught is a political nightmare for the CCP. OBOR isn't doing well these days with the debt problems, Malaysia is already cutting it, Myanmar is considering reductions and Pakistan is under so much debt now they can't afford to continue. The Chinese economy is in troubled waters right now and that spigot of cash is drying up. Chinese diaspora is only an asset if they field loyalty to the homeland, many do not. China not fighting for 40 years is its biggest weakness.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:46 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:

    Based on their number there can never more than 4 (or 5 at best) of PF SSNs and SSGNs at sea at any given time. So no, they can't do any of that to the PLAN e.g. in East China sea. They can sink some ships if they're lucky, but ultimately, with increasing numbers of Y-8Q flying around, as the PLAN corvette/frigate/destroyer force is huge and with a good dozen of Kilos patrolling, RuN subs will be decimated.

    4-5 Oscars and Akulas is all that is needed to bloody the PLAN, they would not think twice about entering Russian waters, not to mention the nukes that would be coming their way. What China has is not enough to detect even late Soviet era acoustic signatures.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:51 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:

    Based on their number there can never more than 4 (or 5 at best) of PF SSNs and SSGNs at sea at any given time. So no, they can't do any of that to the PLAN e.g. in East China sea. They can sink some ships if they're lucky, but ultimately, with increasing numbers of Y-8Q flying around, as the PLAN corvette/frigate/destroyer force is huge and with a good dozen of Kilos patrolling, RuN subs will be decimated.

    4-5 Oscars and Akulas is all that is needed to bloody the PLAN, they would not think twice about entering Russian waters, not to mention the nukes that would be coming their way.  What China has is not enough to detect even late Soviet era acoustic signatures.  

    On Russian waters/EEZ in the Pacific (sea of Okhotsk and most of sea of Japan), you are right.
    Nobody can play games there, they will get wrecked.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:16 pm

    They r placing SOSUS-like detection devices on the sea bottom. http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/10906/south-china-sea-underwater-environmental-sensor-net-could-track-u-s-subs

    http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2016/06/chinas-seaweb-undersea-surveillance.html

    Their ASW is not standing still: https://www.popsci.com/y-8q-chinas-submarine-hunting-plane-has-giant-stinger#page-6

    To be safe, the Russian subs better stay outside the 1st Island Chain in any conflict with China. Also, their base in Vladivostok can be hit by long range MRLSs & in Kamchatka by SLCMs.
    http://www.military-today.com/artillery/a300.htm

    http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2018-04/28/content_8019233.htm

    http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2015-09/07/content_6669734.htm


    Many "overseas Chinese' still have ancestors graves, relatives & friends in China, they r loyal to them & the government can exploit it. The thousands of Chinese students, tourists & businessmen r all potential sources of intelligence.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:33 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:They r placing SOSUS-like detection devices on the sea bottom. http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/10906/south-china-sea-underwater-environmental-sensor-net-could-track-u-s-subs

    http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2016/06/chinas-seaweb-undersea-surveillance.html

    Their ASW is not standing still: https://www.popsci.com/y-8q-chinas-submarine-hunting-plane-has-giant-stinger#page-6

    To be safe, the Russian subs better stay outside the 1st Island Chain in any conflict with China. Their base in Vladivostok can be hit by long range MRLSs & in Kamchatka by SLCMs.
    Many "overseas Chinese' still have ancestors graves, relatives & friends in China, they r loyal to them & the government can exploit it. The Chinese students, tourists & businessmen r sources of intelligence.

    Connected by optical cables.... yeah that wouldn't last long. Snip here, snip there... its over.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:55 pm

    Don't worry, they'll be protected by UUVs &/ dolphins. Before thy r cut, the subs will be detected. https://regnum.ru/news/it/2452653.html
    But all that is hypothetical. China absorbed all her invaders & only the coastal areas could be partially colonized- no1 could have controlled such vast area & huge diverse population. The Mongols did for a while, but were thrown out. The Manchus got Cinisized. The Japanese got bogged down there. Now, Lioning, Inner Mongolia, Tibet & Sinkiang r guarding against invasions from the North, SW & West. Pakistan is a close ally. The current naval buildup will secure the coastline.
    A tiger that didn't fight other tigers in a long time is still fully capable of defending itself. Russia needs peaceful China more than China needs Russia. Any war between them will only benefit USA, Japan, India & the UK.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

    walle83

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  walle83 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:58 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    walle83 wrote:22+ destroyers,
    25+ frigates,
    ~40 corvettes,
    4 SSBN,
    4-6 SSN,
    10-15 SSK,
    5 large LPD ships
    and 2 large aircraft carriers

    launched or deployed in the last 8-10 years even you must agree that the PLA is doing quite good.

    Looking at the results of their massive build up they are left with two carriers without planes, submarines that are so loud the Japanese are forcing them to surface in total embarrassment, destroyers that are breaking down and being towed back from the Indian Ocean, LPDs with an LCAC that can only carry a fraction of traditional ones and a bunch of missile boats that are little more than target practice for any modern navy.  The Chinese greatest weakness on the water is not the lack of carrier aviation but lack of quality ASW.  They are relying on antiquated French helicopter ASW from the late 80s which are practically useless against modern SSNs and SSKs which would wreak havoc on Chinese shipping lanes.  Any one of their fleets could be wiped out by one or two SSNs.  

    U really see the glas half emty dont u Rolling Eyes
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:04 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Don't worry, they'll be protected by UUVs &/ dolphins. Before thy r cut, the subs will be detected. https://regnum.ru/news/it/2452653.html
    But all that is hypothetical. China absorbed all her invaders & only the coastal areas could be partially colonized- no1 could have controlled such vast area & huge diverse population. The Mongols did for a while, but were thrown out. The Manchus got Cinisized. The Japanese got bogged down there. Now, Lioning, Inner Mongolia, Tibet & Sinkiang r guarding against invasions from the North, SW & West. Pakistan is a close ally. The current naval buildup will secure the coastline.
    A tiger that didn't fight other tigers in a long time is still fully capable of defending itself. Russia needs peaceful China more than China needs Russia. Any war between them will only benefit USA, Japan, India & the UK.

    Sure they will, a fishing trawler could sneak in with a package to cut it and they wouldn't know until it is too late. The French went over there and conquered them, destroyed the Summer Palace and took Indochine humiliating the Chinese without breaking a sweat. If the French could defeat them they don't have much hope of counting on any legacy of greatness to win modern wars they are not prepared to fight.


    walle83

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  walle83 on Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:30 am

    Hey Vladimir, name 3 positive things with the PLA navy build Up.
    Now this Will be a challenge for u Wink
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:59 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Sure they will, a fishing trawler could sneak in with a package to cut it and they wouldn't know until it is too late. The French went over there and conquered them, destroyed the Summer Palace and took Indochine humiliating the Chinese without breaking a sweat.  If the French could defeat them they don't have much hope of counting on any legacy of greatness to win modern wars they are not prepared to fight. 
    They now have large CG backed by people's militia & the Navy & will stop any fishing trawler not fully manned by Chinese nationals.
    Don't compare the Ching Dynasty China to today's PRC. The French weren't fighting any Chinese armies in Indochina. The Vietnamese were supported by China & USSR, & the French & later the Americans lost, as they did in Korea in 1953. U r grasping for straws.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:19 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    They now have large CG backed by people's militia & the Navy & will stop any fishing trawler not fully manned by Chinese nationals.
    Don't compare the Ching Dynasty China to today's PRC. The French weren't fighting any Chinese armies in Indochina. The Vietnamese were supported by China & USSR, & the French & later the Americans lost, as they did in Korea in 1953. U r grasping for straws.

    Those Vietnamese and Filipino trawlers cross that line everyday and that SOSUS net is far too wide to monitor every inch of it. There really is nothing they can do to stop them. The French fought Chinese armies in China, they sank the only modern fleet they had built without a single loss. China had the entire might of the PLA on the border of Vietnam and couldn't even hold it. the French occupied the entire country from the time China lost it to the time they handed it over to the Americans.

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    Re: PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

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