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    New Automatic ΑΑ 57mm gun development

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    GarryB
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    Re: New Automatic ΑΑ 57mm gun development

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:51 am

    I actually think that the model shown of the BMPT based on armata with a 120mm smoothbore gun/mortar plus a 23mm 6 barrel gatling gun and a 40mm or 57mm long barrel grenade launcher would be the ideal armament for BMPT-3

    In the past the vehicles used in the role have been anti aircraft guns with devastating instant fire power in 23mm or 30mm high rate of fire cannon... the vehicle I mention above can match that with the 23mm gatling alone... 10,000-12,000 rpm with a low velocity heavy projectile in a small compact round slightly bigger than HMG ammo... for other targets direct fire and also guided 120mm and 122mm rounds and missiles with low velocity 40mm or 57mm rounds offers an all round package of heavy HE fire power and direct fire and indirect fire weapons for a range of targets.

    Regarding using two 57mm guns the weight and space to fit two guns does not really justify the moderate increase in rate of fire.

    Each gun will likely fire at about 300 rpm so two guns you get 600rpm but a lot more vibration and recoil which would upset long range accuracy to the point of making it useless. 4 or 5 shells per second hitting a target in 57mm calibre would be devastating on their own... a single round direct hit with a guided shell would be even more devastating to most targets.

    The size of the rounds means a standard HE shell could be fitted with a very accurate time fuse meaning a single round could be detonated amongst a group of enemy swarm UAVs damaging or destroying them all... tiny UAVs will be fragile little things remember...

    the saving of removing the second 57mm gun means a weapon like a low velocity grenade launcher (57mm or 40mm) could be added to allow a much wider range of targets to be engaged with low velocity rounds... even a 23mm gatling... or even a twin barrel 30mm cannon or 23mm cannon.


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    eehnie
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    Re: New Automatic ΑΑ 57mm gun development

    Post  eehnie on Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:43 am

    I see a good number of comments deleted.

    As I was defending here before the new, a 57-2 or a 57-4 configuration is logical. Russia will not waste an armata platform for only a 57mm weapon. If there is interest in this weapon, for sure the configuration used will not be weaker than what they did in the past, and the 57-2 was proved with the ZSU-57-2 a lot of decades ago.

    This type of weapons have been used not only for air defense roles, also in infantry roles, even in urban environments, and here a good rate of fire is needed for a fast reaction. The rate of fire of the 57mm baikal cannon (120 in 57-1 configuration) is just above of the ZSU-57-2. It would not be bad if it is improved, especially if Russia is planing, like it seems, the replacement of 30mm weapons by 57mm weapons in some types of warfare.

    http://www.burevestnik.com/products_engl/au220m.html

    It would be very interesting a land application of this (57-2?):

    http://www.burevestnik.com/products_engl/1.html

    To have guided ammunition, of course is a must, but also cheaper ammunition can be used like for other calibers.

    With a 57-2 configuration, surely the armata platform has been selected by the amount of ammunition that can carry, not by mechanical requirements, but at same time an armata platform must have fire power enough.

    miketheterrible
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    Re: New Automatic ΑΑ 57mm gun development

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:31 pm

    Its the experience of SAA that is valuable. They were modifying tanks to use S-60 and found them very effective during combat.

    I think 2 on Armata is a little over kill but hey, why not? A system such as that with anti tank/anti air missiles is ideal.

    Curious though which ATGM's they may use in future? Hermes isn't out or tested yet.

    GarryB
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    Re: New Automatic ΑΑ 57mm gun development

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 am

    I see a good number of comments deleted.

    Not sure what you mean...

    As I was defending here before the new, a 57-2 or a 57-4 configuration is logical. Russia will not waste an armata platform for only a 57mm weapon. If there is interest in this weapon, for sure the configuration used will not be weaker than what they did in the past, and the 57-2 was proved with the ZSU-57-2 a lot of decades ago.

    The twin gun arrangement was used to maximise the rate of fire because having only rate of fire to hit a target that is manouvering means the more shots you can put up at a time the better your chances.

    The guns use a four round clip so rate of fire is limited anyway.

    In the case of an IFV or air defence (SPAAG) or indeed tank support (BMPT) vehicle version of of all the new vehicle families it makes sense to have just one gun and more ammo because dumb ammo and pure rate of fire wont make sense against very many standard targets.

    Accuracy and guided shells are what make them valuable at battlefield ranges... which an extra barrel in the turret would reduce rather than improve.

    To have guided ammunition, of course is a must, but also cheaper ammunition can be used like for other calibers.

    It would be cheaper and easier to fire one or two guided shells than to plaster the area with dozens of shells to try to get a hit...

    Curious though which ATGM's they may use in future? Hermes isn't out or tested yet.

    Well Krisantema and Kornet-EM are in production and service... they also seem to be developing a new fire and forget model now too which would be interesting too...


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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