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    Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

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    Pinto
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    Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  Pinto on Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:12 am

    Scorpene Submarine data leak: If the secret data was indeed leaked from France, this is bound to strain India’s defence relationship with France.

    Indian Navy seems to have suffered a huge setback after more than 22,000 pages of secret data related to the six Scorpene-class submarines being made by the French company DCNS in India was leaked, “The Australian” newspaper reported. The leaked data gives away the entire secret combat and performance capabilities of these submarines, and will completely negate their operational usefulness if China and Pakistan get access to the same.

    India is currently building six Scorpene-class submarines, named Project 75, in partnership with the French company DCNS under a $3.5-billion deal signed in 2005. These submarines are being built at Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited in Mumbai, and the first of them, INS Kalvari, is likely to be inducted later this year.

    “The Australian” also claims that the data was most probably leaked not from India but from DCNS in France as it also includes separate confidential DCNS files on plans to sell French frigates to Chile and the French sale of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ship carrier to Russia. These DCNS projects have no link to India, giving credence to the probability that the data files were removed from DCNS in France.

    Will probe leak, says DCNS; source not from India, says Defence Ministry
    The data on the Scorpene submarines, “The Australian” claims, was written in France for India in 2011 and is suspected of being removed from France in that same year by a former French Navy officer who was at that time a DCNS subcontractor. The data is then believed to have been taken to a company in Southeast Asia, possibly to assist in a commercial venture for a regional navy.

    According to “The Australian”, it was subsequently passed by a third party to a second company in the region before being sent on a data disk by regular mail to a company in Australia. It is unclear, the paper says, how widely the data has been shared in Asia or whether it has been obtained by foreign intelligence agencies.


    If the secret data was indeed leaked from France, this is bound to strain India’s defence relationship with France. India is expected to sign a deal for 36 Rafale fighter aircraft with France shortly, and that could be under a cloud following this revelation.

    Also Read | http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/scorpene-submarine-leak-sensitive-data-indian-navy-france-dcns/

    The leaked documents marked “Restricted Scorpene India”, which have been put up by the Australian newspaper on its website, has the secret stealth capabilities of the six submarines, including the frequencies they gather intelligence at, the levels of noise they make at various speeds and their diving depths, range and endurance. This is highly classified information which allows the submarine to perform its designated role without being detected by the enemy.

    Also Read | http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/scorpene-submarine-leak-all-you-need-to-know-about-indian-navys-stealth-weapon/

    According to “The Australian”, the data includes 4457 pages on the submarine’s underwater sensors, 4209 pages on its above-water sensors, 4301 pages on its combat management system, 493 paes on its torpedo launch system and specifications, 6841 pages on the submarine’s communications system and 2138 pages on its navigation systems.

    http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/scorpene-submarine-leak-huge-setback-india-as-22000-pages-of-secret-data-leaked/

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:47 am

    Given the length of time this data appears to have been in the 'wild' why is it public now and in full? Cui bono?

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    Our French submarine builder in massive leak scandal- The Australian

    Post  Pinto on Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:03 pm

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    @camstewarttheoz
    The French company that won the bid to design Australia’s new $50 billion submarine fleet has suffered a massive leak of secret documents, raising fears about the future security of top-secret data on the navy’s future fleet.

    The stunning leak, which runs to 22,400 pages and has been seen by The Australian, details the entire secret combat capability of the six Scorpene-class submarines that French shipbuilder DCNS has designed for the Indian Navy.

    A variant of the same French-designed Scorpene is also used by the navies of Malaysia, Chile and, from 2018, Brazil, so news of the Edward Snowden-sized leak — revealed today — will trigger alarm at the highest level in these countries. Marked “Restricted Scorpene India”, the DCNS documents detail the most sensitive combat capabilities of India’s new $US3 bn ($3.9bn) submarine fleet and would provide an intelligence bonanza if obtained by India’s strategic rivals, such as Pakistan or China.

    The leak will spark grave concern in Australia and especially in the US where senior navy officials have privately expressed fears about the security of top-secret data entrusted to France.

    In April DCNS, which is two-thirds owned by the French government, won the hotly contested bid over Germany and Japan to design 12 new submarines for Australia. Its proposed submarine for Australia — the yet-to-be-built Shortfin Barracuda — was chosen ahead of its rivals because it was considered to be the quietest in the water, making it perfectly suited to intelligence-gathering operations against China and others in the region.

    Any stealth advantage for the navy’s new submarines would be gravely compromised if data on its planned combat and performance capabilities was leaked in the same manner as the data from the Scorpene. The leaked DCNS data details the secret stealth capabilities of the six new Indian submarines, including what frequencies they gather intelligence at, what levels of noise they make at various speeds and their diving depths, range and endurance — all sensitive information that is highly classified. The data tells the submarine crew where on the boat they can speak safely to avoid detection by the enemy. It also discloses magnetic, electromagnetic and infra-red data as well as the specifications of the submarine’s torpedo launch system and the combat system.

    It details the speed and conditions needed for using the periscope, the noise specifications of the propeller and the radiated noise levels that occur when the submarine surfaces.

    The data seen by The Australian includes 4457 pages on the submarine’s underwater sensors, 4209 pages on its above-water sensors, 4301 pages on its combat management system, 493 pages on its torpedo launch system and specifications, 6841 pages on the sub’s communications system and 2138 on its navigation systems.

    The Australian has chosen to redact sensitive information from the documents.

    Sea trials for the first of India’s six Scorpene submarines began in May. The project is running four years behind schedule.

    The Indian Navy has boasted that its Scorpene submarines have superior stealth features, which give them a major advantage against other submarines.

    The US will be alarmed by the leak of the DCNS data because Australia hopes to install an American combat system — with the latest US stealth technology — in the French Shortfin Barracuda.

    If Washington does not feel confident that its “crown jewels’’ of stealth technology can be protected, it may decline to give Australia its state-of-the-art combat system.

    DCNS yesterday sought to reassure Australians that the leak of the data on the Indian Scorpene submarine would not happen with its proposed submarine for Australia. The company also implied — but did not say directly — that the leak might have occurred at India’s end, rather than from France. “Uncontrolled technical data is not possible in the Australian arrangements,” the company said. “Multiple and independent controls exist within DCNS to prevent unauthorised access to data and all data movements are encrypted and recorded. In the case of India, where a DCNS design is built by a local company, DCNS is the provider and not the controller of technical data.

    “In the case of Australia, and unlike India, DCNS is both the provider and in-country controller of technical data for the full chain of transmission and usage over the life of the submarines.”

    However, The Australian has been told that the data on the Scorpene was written in France for India in 2011 and is suspected of being removed from France in that same year by a former French Navy officer who was at that time a DCNS subcontractor.

    The data is then believed to have been taken to a company in Southeast Asia, possibly to assist in a commercial venture for a regional navy.

    It was subsequently passed by a third party to a second company in the region before being sent on a data disk by regular mail to a company in Australia. It is unclear how widely the data has been shared in Asia or whether it has been obtained by foreign intelligence agencies.

    The data seen by The Australian also includes separate confidential DCNS files on plans to sell French frigates to Chile and the French sale of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ship carrier to Russia. These DCNS projects have no link to India, which adds weight to the probability that the data files were removed from DCNS in France.

    DCNS Australia this month signed a deed of agreement with the Defence Department, paving the way for talks over the contract which will guide the design phase of the new submarines. The government plans to build 12 submarines in Adelaide to replace the six-boat Collins-class fleet from the early 2030s. The Shortfin Barracuda will be a slightly shorter, conventionally powered version of France’s new fleet of Barracuda-class nuclear submarines.

    Restricted data

    The secret information the leaked documents reveal:

    • The stealth capabilities of the six new Indian Scorpene submarines
    • The frequencies at which the subs gather intelligence
    • The levels of noise the subs make at various speeds
    • Diving depths, range and endurance
    • Magnetic, electromagnetic and infra-red data
    • Specifications of the submarine’s torpedo launch system and the combat system
    • Speed and conditions needed for using the periscope
    • Propeller’s noise specifications
    • Radiated noise levels when the submarine surfaces




    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/our-french-submarine-builder-in-massive-leak-scandal/news-story/3fe0d25b7733873c44aaa0a4d42db39e

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  Pinto on Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:14 pm

    This blame game will go on, but , if the details have really been leaked then who is the ultimate sufferer, the Indians and a few others. Australians may be getting better or different configuration of submarines from DCNS.

    Indian Navy and DCNS is going to be worst sufferer

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  Pinto on Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:19 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Given the length of time this data appears to have been in the 'wild' why is it public now and in full? Cui bono?

    The leak source is outside India and dates back to 2011, according some experts it dates back to 2001. not just India affected, Malaysia, Chile, Brazil too as they all had bought sns from DCNS.

    This is worst kind of corporate rivalry to pin down the rivals as DCNS recently won 50b$ contract from Australia

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  Pinto on Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:31 pm

    French naval contractor DCNS said on Wednesday that it could not rule out that leaked documents on submarines built for India were part of an "economic war" by competitors after the firm won a tender in Australia earlier this year.

    "For now we don't know if the information is correct," a DCNS spokeswoman said. "The competition is more and more hard and all means can be used in this context."

    "There is India, Australia and other prospects, and other countries could raise legitimate questions over DCNS. It's part of the tools in economic war," she said.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/france-submarines-dcns-idUSP6N17300V



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    Scorpene submarine data leak: Here’s what we know so far about the case

    Post  Pinto on Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:49 pm

    Scorpene Submarine data leak: Read all about Scorpene Submarine data scandal here. The Govt has launched a probe after the leak.

    There has been a data leak and it is big. ‘The Australian’ newspaper reported on Wednesday that over 22,000 pages detailing the combat and performance capabilities of six Scorpene-class submarines produced by India in partnership with French company DCNS have been leaked. India had signed a $3.5 billion deal in 2005 to build six Scorpene-class submarines, designed by the French company, at the Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited in Mumbai. The newspaper report has said the information is sensitive and highly classified.

    INS Kalvari, first of the Scorpene-class submarines, is expected to be inducted into the Indian Navy later this year.

    Stand of the Indian government

    Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said there has been a hacking and that a clear picture will emerge in the days to come.

    “I have asked the Navy chief to study the entire issue about what has been leaked, what is there about us and to what extent. It came to my knowledge at about 12 AM. What I understand is there is a hacking. So we will find out all this,” Parrikar told reporters in New Delhi.

    The Defence Minister said he does not suspect the leak to be 100 per cent since a lot of final integration lies with India.

    The data that has been leaked is reported to have details like specifications of the torpedo launch system, speed and condition needed for using the periscope and functioning of the above-water and underwater sensors. According to the report, the data tells the submarine crew where on the boat they can speak safely to avoid detection by the enemy.

    PTI said over 4,000 pages on the submarine’s combat management system are among the leaked information.

    Source of the leak

    “The Australian” report claimed the data was most probably leaked not from India but from DCNS in France as it also includes separate confidential DCNS files on plans to sell French frigates to Chile and the French sale of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ship carrier to Russia. Since these projects of the DCNS have no link to India, there is high probability that the data files were removed from the company in France.
    But DCNS implied that the leak might have occurred at India’s end, rather than from France.

    “Uncontrolled technical data is not possible in the Australian arrangements,” the company said.

    Also read: Will probe leak, says DCNS

    “Multiple and independent controls exist within DCNS to prevent unauthorised access to data and all data movements are encrypted and recorded. In the case of India, where a DCNS design is built by a local company, DCNS is the provider and not the controller of technical data,” the company said.

    The data on the submarine was written in France for India in 2011 and is suspected of being removed from France in that same year by a former French Navy officer who was at that time a DCNS subcontractor.

    “The data is then believed to have been taken to a company in Southeast Asia, possibly to assist in a commercial venture for a ­regional navy. It was subsequently passed by a third party to a second company in the region before being sent on a data disk by regular mail to a company in Australia…It is unclear how widely the data has been shared in Asia or whether it has been obtained by foreign ­intelligence agencies,” the report said.

    Fears in Australia

    There are fears in Australia surrounding the security of data on the future fleet of its own Navy. French company DCNS had won the bid to design the new fleet of Australian $50 billion submarines.

    Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said it was important to note the submarine DCNS was building for India was a completely different model to the one it will build for Australia and the leaked information was a few years out of date, PTI reported.

    “Nevertheless, any leak of classified information was a concern,” he was quoted as saying. The newspaper also said the company has assured Australia that the leak it has suffered in connection with the Indian submarines would not happen in the case of that country.

    (With inputs from PTI)

    http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/scorpene-submarine-data-leak-indian-navy-dcns-facts-2993755/

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:45 pm

    So basically someone in the Aussie board has leaked this somehow.

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    Leaked documents on Scorpène-class submarine and its implication on the Indian Navy

    Post  Pinto on Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:42 pm

    Suresh Bangara Aug 24, 2016 23:03 IST

    Manohar Parrikar undocked the fully-fitted, first of its class, Project 75 submarine. It is scheduled to be commissioned in September 2016 after mandatory sea trials. The project, as per the contract with the French shipbuilders DCNS, had already suffered many slippages in delivery schedules and (in naval parlance) is astern of the original intent of expeditious delivery to address the force-level shortages of diesel-electric submarines.

    The earlier attempt at Mazagaon Docks to build the German origin, state-of-the-art submarine – designed by HDW – had to be terminated in the late 1980s owing to the allegation of corruption in the deal. The Indian Navy was deprived of a well-established production line when the political decision, more of a knee-jerk reaction, was taken to terminate it. The costly investment in infrastructure and technical manpower was thus wasted. The opportunity cost of terminating this prestigious project can be best summed up with the idiom, "cut off your nose to spite your face" because the cost was exorbitant, to put it mildly.

    Even though the Soviets stepped in to supply the EKM submarines to bolster the depleting force levels, a 30-year build programme which was approved at the end of 1990s was to ensure that our build capacity was augmented by creating the necessary infrastructure and technical manpower in two indigenous yards. Inordinate delays in executing the plan resulted in Mazagaon Docks speeding up the construction of much-delayed Scorpene. The other is yet to take off.

    This is the backdrop against which the today's leaked documents need to be viewed.

    The Australian newspaper which broke the story of the leak has carefully redacted the sensitive data contained in the leaked documents, keeping in mind the advice of military and legal experts. A few pages sourced by Firstpost confirm that the redaction has been professionally carried out. Whether it covers the whole document of over 20,000 pages is yet to be ascertained. Responsible and ethical reportage makes it incumbent on newspapers to blank out those parts which might otherwise have undesirable geopolitical implications. Australia too is on the threshold of building submarines with similar assistance. They ought to know the implications of this action.

    With regards to the sensitive data, acoustic signatures and 'cavitation appearance' are indeed closely-guarded secrets with the shipbuilder being its sole custodian. The builder creates a data bank based on simulated and empirical studies which are carried out over a long duration. The customer, in turn, can hold him accountable for such data that needs to be proved during sea trials. Hence the actually recorded and analysed data during sea trials would be more valuable than what is stated in documents. Tactically, a submarine has many options to deceive sonars by masking its radiated noise. Hence the impact of such a disclosure (authentic or not) depends on the quality of submarining. Indian submariners have decades of experience on both Western and Eastern origin submarines.

    As far as the timing of this leak is concerned, the competitors of the second line of production are the biggest gainers. It means billions of dollars worth of business at a time when both economy and employment are at a critical stage. It is not that the defence ministry would terminate orders on DCNS, which would be another folly of even greater proportions if they do, but the second line of production is round the corner. Builders from East and West are possibly salivating on the quantum of order.

    The very nature of this leak of over 22,000 pages makes it amenable to hacking. Considering that we are not a fully-wired society, it is unlikely that any single in-house source would have all such data on a single but networked computer. This could have also been hacked from those original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) in Europe who were associated with this project. We can at best speculate at this stage.

    Is it critical for operations? Most of the pages, as would be the case in any documentation, would consist of data which is common to all builders. With the operational profile being common to all submarines, it is likely that factors related to the detection of the submarine from ship, airborne or a hunter-killer submarine, are critical to operations. But this is the raison d'être of the submarine arm. Experienced submariners know how to avoid detection.

    Furthermore, the data on weapons, whether torpedoes or missiles, are well known to all submariners. The greatest advantage that we have is that our submariners have for decades operated both Western and Eastern origin submarines and have learnt to innovate when required.

    Recent reports suggest that the choice of torpedoes, which is the primary weapon, has not been finalised. In the existing case, it has turned out to be an advantage as the torpedoes are the main weapon of submarines and this leaked document pertains to discussions held in 2011.

    The navy needs more submarines to address the depletion of conventional units. Delays caused by events like these ought not to result in further reduction in force levels.


    http://www.firstpost.com/india/leak...s-implication-on-the-indian-navy-2974788.html


    Last edited by Pinto on Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:49 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    'Project 75 Has Been Leaked': The Night Navy Discovered Scorpene News

    Post  Pinto on Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:44 pm

    'Project 75 Has Been Leaked': The Night Navy Discovered Scorpene News

    NEW DELHI: It was midnight and the phone of senior Navy officer posted at the Naval Headquarters wouldn't stop ringing. "The Australian has published a report claiming details of Project 75 (the official name for the submarine project) have been leaked," the caller said.

    Minutes later, after the report was read on phone, the Chief of Navy Staff Admiral Sunil Lanba was informed.

    Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, who was simultaneously informed by separate channels, immediately asked the Navy for a damage assessment and the possible place of the leak.

    This morning Mr Parrikar told reporters "We knew about this last night". But what he left unsaid was the flurry of activity that took place through the night.

    Within an hour, all hands were at the deck at the South Delhi office from where Project 75 is monitored.

    A section of officers were pouring over the original document of the Scorpene submarine and comparing them with the ones put out by The Australian. Others were tasked to check which officers had accessed the document and where the documents had moved to look for possible place of leak.

    Simultaneously, the cyber experts of the Indian Navy - considered one of the best - stationed across the nation were on a dual job: Looking for traces of leak from computers in India and the cyber trail of the documents put out by the newspaper.


    In Mumbai, a similar exercise was underway at the Mazagaon docks - the shipyard constructing the submarines.

    The multiple checks ran through the night. In the morning, bleary-eyed officers were allowed to go home, shower and shave.

    Within the hour, they were back at their desks.

    The initial investigation report, short and factual, was placed before the Defence Minister - who was in his office by 10 am after attending a function despite being up till 4 in the morning.

    A meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security -the highest body in the country headed by the Prime Minister, which decides on security issues - was expected to take up the issue by afternoon.


    As Mr Parrikar left for the CCS, he asked the Navy to issue the first official communication, which said documents had not leaked from India. The cyber experts who had worked through the night, told the ministry that the cyber trail of the leaked papers didn't originate from India.

    Soon after he returned from the CCS meeting, the Chief of Naval Staff again briefed Mr Parrikar. It was a longer briefing -- on the possible fallouts of the leak.

    The Navy's conclusion did not change from the initial assessment it had given the Ministry.

    Mr Parrikar was told that India had signed the deal with M/s Aramis and not DCNS. M/s Armaris was bought by DCNS subsequently. The leaked documents showed they were from DCNS. The minister was also told that the specifications in the leaked documents didn't match.

    "The basic shape, structure (of the submarines) like its height etc remains the same, but several modifications are made to suit our requirements. To put it in simple terms, the computer programme Windows has some basic similarities but Windows of 2007 and 2010 differ hugely," a senior officer associated with the exercise told NDTV.


    By late evening, Mr Parrikar and the Navy sat down again. The Navy reiterated that all checks pointed to an overseas leak and the damage, if any, was minimal.
    The Minister asked the Navy to shoot a query to the French manufacturer DCNS to ascertain the leak and come back to India.

    http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/proj...corpene-news-1449914?pfrom=home-lateststories


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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:55 pm

    The Japanese leaked it because they are butt-hurt over losing Australia.


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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:09 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:The Japanese leaked it because they are butt-hurt over losing Australia.

    That could also be the case, however the documents as it looks like until now are from the documentation set that was presented to the Australians. This means that the people paid by the Japanese to win them this contract, were out done by the people paid by the French, and "retaliated". China appreciates.

    Remember kids, MIC is best kept in house, even with its failures.

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:14 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    That could also be the case, however the documents as it looks like until now are from the documentation set that was presented to the Australians. This means that the people paid by the Japanese to win them this contract, were out done by the people paid by the French, and "retaliated". China appreciates.

    Remember kids, MIC is best kept in house, even with its failures.

    The Aussies were presented with the short-fin Barracuda.  These documents are from India.


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    Scorpene submarine data leak: Political uproar in India, France promises to investigate 'seriously'

    Post  Pinto on Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:14 pm

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-scorpene-submarine-data-leak-political-uproar-in-india-france-promises-to-investigate-seriously-2248586

    France said it has taken "very seriously" the issue of leak of sensitive documents on advanced submarines being built for the Indian Navy and would work with India very closely with transparency. As the Scorpene data leak report broke out shaking the Indian defence establishment, French Ambassador Alexandre Ziegler said here French authorities were trying to assess the extent, nature and sensitivity of information that may have been leaked.

    pic hosting

    "Well, I have seen the report in the press. What can I tell you is that the French authorities are taking the matter very very seriously and working very seriously with DCNS, the French ship building company," he told reporters at an event organised at Alliance Francaise here.

    Earlier, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has said the leak of documents detailing the secret combat capabilities of Scorpene-class submarines was a case of hacking.

    Australian media reported a leak of 22,400 pages that enumerate the submarines designed by DCNS for the Indian Navy.

    Parrikar also has ordered Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lamba to go into the entire issue and sought a report from DCNS.

    The details leaked included what frequencies the submarines gather intelligence at, what levels of noise they make at various speeds and their diving depths, range and endurance - all sensitive information that is highly classified, the Australian report said.

    Terming as "scandalous" the Scorpene submarine project leak, Congress today demanded a complete security audit of the Defence Ministry by a sitting Supreme Court judge even as it accused Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar of launching an "operation cover-up".

    Congress hits out at BJP


    The audit could be in the form of a commission of inquiry and should fix responsibility of the political executive, including that of the Defence Minister and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the party's chief spokesperson Randeep Surjewala told reporters.

    Insisting that the inquiry should probe the Defence Minister and the Defence Ministry to see whether they had abdicated their responsibility, he said the leak has put a question mark on India's maritime security.

    Dubbing it as the "biggest defence disaster" of recent time, he said it has jeopardised the sole initiative to build six Scorpene submarines in collaboration with French company DCNS at a cost of US dollar 3.5 billion (Rs 23,500 crore approximately) by government-owned Mazagaon Dock Ship Builders Ltd at Mumbai.

    "Despite the 'Himalayan blunder' that has deeply hurt India's defence preparedness, the Modi government/Defence Minister are indulging in 'operation cover-up' instead of fixing responsibility," he alleged.

    Surjewala claimed that all concerned, including the Defence Minister and Indian Navy, are speaking in contradictory voices.

    While Parrikar continues to describe the leaks as "hacking", the navy states that the "source of leaks is overseas and not in India", he said. French Company DCNS has clearly hinted that leak may have taken place in India, he said. With a coastline of 7517 kilometres to defend with merely 13 submarines and one nuclear submarine, the government appears to be living in denial, he said.

    "It is in fact intriguing as to how 'clean chits' are being meted out without conducting a proper inquiry. For such an inquiry to be fair, it has to be headed by an independent neutral authority of the level of a sitting Supreme Court judge with officials from the armed forces, naval and Military Intelligence, IB or other specialised agencies as its members," he said.

    Surjewala contended that this is an "alarming" situation that requires a complete 'security audit' of Mazagaon Dock Ship Builders Limited as also of the Defence Ministry.

    Such a security audit/commission of inquiry will only establish the source of the leak, which cannot be established by a mere denial on the part of either the Defence Minister or the Indian Navy, he said.

    Maintaining that the Defence Minister cannot brush these issues under the carpet, he said that the responsibility of political executive, bureaucrats and officers need to be affixed for the unprecedented leaks that have harmed national interest irreparably.

    More than 22,000 pages of top secret data on the capabilities of six highly advanced submarines have been leaked, raising alarm bells in the security establishment.

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  Pinto on Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:15 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:The Japanese leaked it because they are butt-hurt over losing Australia.

    Japan and US seems to have leaked the data as they both were not happy with french waling away with mega deal

    can India get akula or lada class subs from Russia ?

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  Pinto on Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:03 pm

    Indian submarine documents stolen, not leaked - French source


    Aug 25 Documents relating to Indian submarines were stolen from French naval contractor DCNS and not leaked, a French government source said on Thursday, adding that the information published so far showed only operational aspects of the submarines.

    India and France have opened investigations after The Australian newspaper published on Wednesday documents about its Scorpene submarines being built in India.

    "It is not a leak, it is theft," the source said. "We have not found any DCNS negligence, but we have identified some dishonesty by an individual."

    The source said the documents looked to have been stolen in 2011 by a former French employee that had been fired while providing training in India on the use of the submarines.

    The documents were not classified and at this stage appeared to only focus on the operational elements of the submarines, the source said. (Reporting By Cyril Altmeyer; writing by John Irish; editing by Richard Lough)


    http://www.reuters.com/article/france-submarines-theft-idUSL8N1B63PD

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:11 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    That could also be the case, however the documents as it looks like until now are from the documentation set that was presented to the Australians. This means that the people paid by the Japanese to win them this contract, were out done by the people paid by the French, and "retaliated". China appreciates.

    Remember kids, MIC is best kept in house, even with its failures.

    The Aussies were presented with the short-fin Barracuda.  These documents are from India.

    Well the French now say it was theft....

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  Pinto on Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:44 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    That could also be the case, however the documents as it looks like until now are from the documentation set that was presented to the Australians. This means that the people paid by the Japanese to win them this contract, were out done by the people paid by the French, and "retaliated". China appreciates.

    Remember kids, MIC is best kept in house, even with its failures.

    The Aussies were presented with the short-fin Barracuda.  These documents are from India.

    Well the French now say it was theft....

    well bro its theft or leak it happened from french side i.e DCNS and the french govt owns 62% holding of this company. so DCNS has lost face and australian deal could be in jeopardy, Indian deal canr be cancelled now as many subs are semi ready now, one in sea trial to be finished in september

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:19 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    That could also be the case, however the documents as it looks like until now are from the documentation set that was presented to the Australians. This means that the people paid by the Japanese to win them this contract, were out done by the people paid by the French, and "retaliated". China appreciates.

    Remember kids, MIC is best kept in house, even with its failures.

    The Aussies were presented with the short-fin Barracuda.  These documents are from India.

    Well the French now say it was theft....

    well bro its theft or leak it happened from french side i.e DCNS and the french govt owns 62% holding of this company. so DCNS has lost face and australian deal could be in jeopardy, Indian deal canr be cancelled now as many subs are semi ready now, one in sea trial to be finished in september

    DCNS hasn't much face to lose if you see what I mean, thanks to the French government.

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    Experts divided on leak of sensitive data on Scorpene submarine idrw.org . Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website , Kindly don't paste our work in other websites http://idrw.org/category/india/page/2/ .

    Post  Pinto on Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:55 pm

    Indian and international experts were divided on how damaging the leak of sensitive data on the Scorpene submarine could prove to be and whether it could have compromised the platform.


    photo host

    Strategic affairs expert Commodore (retired) C Uday Bhaskar said if it is confirmed the data relates to the Indian vessel, then the quantum of details put out might compromise the submarine’s credibility.
    “The DNA of a submarine is about not being detected. If the adversary has all that data, it affects the detectability index of the boat,” said Bhaskar, who heads the Society for Policy Studies.

    Gabriel Dominguez, Asia-Pacific editor at the respected IHS Jane’s Defence weekly, said, “The risk is even higher if the data has been distributed widely, has reached potential adversaries and regional rivals or is now held by individuals or organisations or both that increase the risk of further leaks or hacks.”

    He said there could also be implications for the operational effectiveness of the Scorpene fleet and for India acquiring additional Scorpene-class vessels at a time when the Indian Navy’s underwater capabilities are a source of concern.

    Read: All about Indian Navy’s crucial Scorpene submarines

    However, Admiral (retired) Arun Prakash, who was the navy chief when the Scorpene deal was inked, cautioned against jumping to conclusions. He said, “One can’t really say how much damage has been caused without analysing the data.”

    Prakash said since the documents were categorised only as “restricted,” it was an indication the leaked data was not very sensitive. “Restricted is the lowest security classification. If the documents were that sensitive, they would have been marked secret or top secret.”
    If found guilty of lapses, French shipbuilder DCNS would have violated a critical non-disclosure clause in the $3.5-billion contract for supplying six Scorpenes to the Indian Navy.

    Read: India assesses vulnerability of Scorpene submarines after leak of secret data

    Peter Roberts of the Royal United Services Institute in London said the most serious implications from the leak were the “frequency signature details” of the Scorpene class. “The major risk…is from the exposure of data related to propeller and radiated noise – as a result, Indian submarines will be more vulnerable after the data breach,” he said.
    Such leaks will “allow submarine hunters to refine their searches rather than just searching large swathes of water”, he said. “In simple terms, acoustic intelligence – the fingerprint of a submarine – is the Holy Grail of national secrets.”

    Roberts said DCNS will have to make “some reassurances to the Indian government, and possibly undertake some mitigation work”, such as changing key equipment to change the frequency signature of the submarines. “The impact on DCNS is most likely to be highest with the Australian government who, having recently (awarded) a large submarine contract to the French shipbuilder, will want reassurance that their data will be sufficiently protected from prying Chinese eyes,” he said.

    Prof. Harsh V. Pant, professor of International Relations at King’s College London said, “This is a serious breach, if established, and can do some real long term damage to Indian strategic profile as the Scorpene was supposed to be the main conventional submarine of the Indian fleet. With this leak, Indian Navy will have to re-set its calculus in light of the Scorpene becoming more vulnerable and prepare anew for a challenge that is growing by the day.”

    Alyssa Ayres, a former US state department official who oversaw relations with India and is now a South Asia expert with the Council on Foreign Relations, described the leak as “terrible news, no question”.
    “But I think further details are required not only on the leaked info (does this reveal all about the sub?)…as well as on how it happened (was it indeed a hacking? If so, by whom?) before it’s possible to assess how future Indian defence deals might be affected,” she said.

    Roberts added that in the longer term, the leak will act as a black mark against DCNS” in future submarine bidding competitions, especially in the Asia-Pacific region where more than 70 new submarines will be ordered over the next decade. All arms manufacturers will have to “tighten (and prove) their ability to protect data and information against internal leaks, as well as potential espionage from external actors”, he said.

    (With inputs from Prasun Sonwalkar in London and Yashwant Raj in Washington)

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/experts-divided-on-leak-of-sensitive-data-on-scorpene-submarine/story-k08HUxx5hZvhdINN7iyJ3J.html

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  Pinto on Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:56 pm

    [quote="KoTeMoRe"][quote="Pinto"][quote="KoTeMoRe"]
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    DCNS hasn't much face to lose if you see what I mean, thanks to the French government.

    what do you mean ? will you elaborate further ?

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    Re: Scorpene Submarine Data Leaked

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:05 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:


    DCNS hasn't much face to lose if you see what I mean, thanks to the French government.

    what do you mean ? will you elaborate further ?

    DCNS technicians also "lost" a laptop full of data when the two Mistrals were being demilitarized after the failure to execute the contract. DCNS people were also implicated into the famous leak and bribery scandal that ultimately cost the life of their technical crew in Karachi (2002). Ironically there too the French were selling subs.

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    New Scorpene Details Show Vital Stats Are Out In Open: 10 Facts

    Post  Pinto on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:43 pm

    Reported by Vishnu Som, Edited by Divyanshu Dutta Roy | Updated: August 25, 2016 21:22 IST
    Here are the top 10 developments in this big story:

    1.The sonar system, including the frequencies used by its key components, the Flank Array, the Sonar Intercept Receiver, the Distributed Array and the Active Array have been compromised. All these systems work together to allow the submarine to detect enemy warships and submarines and attack them using torpedoes.

    2.The latest tranche of data appears to contradict the Ministry of Defence statement earlier today that there was no immediate security risk from the leak of secret documents detailing the capabilities of the Scorpene.

    3.The Australian newspaper, which reported on the leak two days ago, posted new details this evening on its website but with sensitive info redacted.

    4.So though the documents prove that the classified information had been compromised, it is not in the public domain.

    5.The documents posted earlier have been examined and do not pose any security compromise as the vital parameters have been blacked out," the defence ministry said in a statement earlier. However, it is The Australian which has redacted sensitive data. It is possible that these documents are also available to others.

    6.Six Scorpenes designed by French shipmaker DCNS are being built in Mumbai. The first is expected to join service before the end of this year.

    7.On Tuesday night, the Australian said it had 22,000 pages of details that exposed the combat capability of the submarines, being built at a cost of $3.5 billion.

    8.The documents were stolen from DCNS and not leaked, an unnamed French government source said to news agency Reuters, adding that the information published so far shows only operational aspects of the submarines.

    9.The source said the documents appeared to have been stolen in 2011 by a former French employee that had been fired while providing training in India on the use of the submarines
    .
    10. India and France have opened investigations with Delhi asking for a detailed report.


    http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/more...per-10-facts-1450394?pfrom=home-lateststories


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    bad timing for France trying to tie down troublesome Rafale deal

    Post  Pinto on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:45 pm

    By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau | Aug 25, 2016, 10.57 PM IST

    NEW DELHI: More bad news for the Navy came on Thursday night with the Australian newspaper revealing more leaked content, including details of the submarine's underwater warfare systems.

    The new documents put out by the Australian online newspaper come hours after the Indian Navy sought to downplay the issue, saying that there is no immediate reason for worry.

    The new documents include specifics of the entire sonar system that is used by the sub to identify and target enemy vessels. These include details of the Flank Array, Sonar Intercept Receiver bands of operations and Active array transmission frequency.


    The timing of the disclosure that thousands of pages of confidential information on India's Scorpene submarine have been leaked is particularly bad for France that is trying to finally tie down a troublesome deal for Rafale fighter jets and shipbuilder DCNS, which was hoping to get clearances for a foreign direct investment proposal this month.

    While the navy has been downplaying the seriousness of the breach - saying that necessary steps are being taken to mitigate probable security compromise - the leak has thrown questions on a DCNS FDI proposal worth over Rs 100 crore that hinges on the Scorpene project.

    In fact, sources told the Economic Times that a team of senior officials from France was to visit New DELHI next week, hoping for final clearances in what would be the first bid in the defence sector for 100 per cent FDI under a new liberalized policy by the Modi government.

    The FDI was for an Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system that would have given greater underwater endurance to the Scorpene submarine. French company DCNS was banking on an additional order for three Scorpenes that would be fitted with AIP and had based its FDI pitch strategy accordingly.

    "The leak has put up questions on how the capability of the current fleet on order has been undermined. That is being studied. So, any discussion on a new order would depend on the outcome of the study," a senior ministry official said.


    At the same time, there are worries that the leak is worse than was earlier expected with The Australian revealing more data. The newspaper has put out more redacted documents that detail the sensitive underwater warfare systems and sonar of the submarine.

    The Indian Navy, which said that documents shared by the newspaper as of now do not pose a security compromise as they have been redacted, has asked French authorities to act on the leak. "The Government is examining if the impact of the information contained in the documents claimed to be available with the Australian sources is compromised. The detailed assessment of potential impact is being undertaken by a high level committee," a navy statement read.

    The leak, which according to the Australian also contained files on French frigates and its Mistral amphibious vessels, could also have an impact on a DCNS proposal to sell landing platform docks to the Indian Navy. The Rs 20,000 crore LPD contract -- for which DCNS is partnering Reliance Defence -- is in its final stage with commercial offers expected to be opened this year.


    The timing of the leak also coincides with a delicate period on the Rafale fighter jet negotiations. After protracted discussions, which have lasted for over a year, the Indian and French side finally came to an agreement earlier this month to take forward the purchase of 36 fighter jets. A team from France is also expected to visit India next month to finalise the deal. However, the Indian side is now bound to raise questions on data protection and confidentiality from the French side.

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ublesome-rafale-deal/articleshow/53863495.cms



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    New set of leaked Scorpene documents out

    Post  Pinto on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:48 pm

    Top defence analyst allayed fears that it could compromise the security of the strategically important combat vessels

    Australia's The Australian newspaper on Thursday uploaded a fresh tranche of leaked documents relating to information about operating instructions of underwater warfare system of the six Scorpene submarines which are being built in India by French firm DCNS.

    However, a top defence analyst allayed fears that it could compromise the security of the strategically important combat vessels.

    Like in the previous case, the newspaper has blacked out all details which it felt would compromise India's security interests.

    However, the new set of documents, with Indian Navy insignia on it and marked "Restricted Scorpene India", gives details about the sonar system of the submarines which is used to gather intelligence underwater.

    It talks about a wide range of technical specifications of the sonars and at what degree and frequency it will function.

    The documents detail the "Operating Instruction Manual", which talks about how to select a target for weapon firing, weapon configuration selection, among others.

    Though the Navy has not yet officially reacted to the release of new documents, sources maintained that it does not compromise national security.


    They said the same information about a submarine was on many naval defence websites.

    "On the face of it, these documents are basic operating manual. You buy any goods from the market, it will come with an operating manual," defence analyst Commodore Uday Bhaskar (Retd), Director of Society of Policy Studies told PTI.

    "If the question is whether tonight's revelation has made our submarines vulnerable, then the answer is no," he said.

    "It is more like basic operating instructions for the user," he said.


    The paper said it has been told that the secret data was removed from DCNS by a former sub-contractor in 2011 and taken to a private company in Southeast Asia before being passed on to a branch of that company in a second Southeast Asian nation.

    A disk containing the data filed was then posted in regular mail to a company in Australia.

    DCNS is focusing its investigation on former employees and sub-contractors involved in the project. At this stage it is not thought that the leak came from India.


    http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ed-scorpene-documents-out-116082501351_1.html

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