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    How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

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    higurashihougi
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    How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:21 am

    I make this thread to ask how to counter the car bombs of the jihadists, and why these carbombs managed to inflict substantial damage to SAA and other rebels in Syria ?

    Sorry for any inconveniences.

    Azi
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    Re: How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

    Post  Azi on Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:33 pm

    To counter a SVBIED you need at first a good defense, trenches, anti tank mines, barbed wire etc. So if you don't destroy the SVBIED in the outer defense line you will slow the vehicle and this gives you the advantage to use ATGM, artillery or the weapon of your tanks. It's soo easy.

    But compare a classical defense line in a modern war with the shit all parties in middle eastern are doin! pwnd

    I think in all arabic countries the soldiers are more loyal to a typical patriacharlic tribal leader, than to the country and army itself. This is why at syrian side you have very strong units, like "Tiger Forces" and really really bad military units. If the leader runs no one of the unit will hold the ground. Have a look at Saudi Arabia and how worst the Jemen campaign was! At other side the jihadis are highly motivated, they have real joy to face the dead, because they know they will end in paradise. This means for Syria...if a part of the SAA front is collapsing, the danger exists that the whole front can collapse, like a domino effect, if one unit runs away the leaders of the other units will consider to hold the line.

    It's sounds very negative, but SAA and Co. have to learn through pain!
    All arabian armies together can't hold ground in classic warfare even against only the army of Switzerland! But in a assymetric situation, clearly a classic army will loose the war, the USA tasted enough of this kind of war (Iraq). Human rights and assymetric war can't be combined!

    VladimirSahin
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    Re: How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

    Post  VladimirSahin on Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:04 pm

    Facing a VBIED is one of the most mixed situations in COIN environments. Your first goal is to visually identify the threat. Secondly it is to engage the threat with what is at hand as immediately as possible. Let's give an example from SW Aleppo the artillery base, at night the militants threw forward atleast 2 VBIEDs. Lack of visibility led to the militants success in blowing up the defenses of the base.

    If you're a infantry squad advancing over flat terrain, you'll be able to identify the VBIED rather quickly. You just tell your squad LMG to open fire on him and the dude is toast. If you're a squad advancing through a road with obstacles in your way, you will not be able to detect the enemy until it is too late so there isn't much you can do. In the defensive role, you should always have a scout team on the look out in areas with great visibility. RPGs, LMGs, ARs are more than enough to take on a VBIED at 200-300 meters.

    Terrorists have success against the SAA with VBIEDs because the militants can afford to throw forth VBIEDs when ever they see fit. SAA is not bad at taking VBIEDs out though, sometimes your troops can get overwhelmed.

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Re: How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:50 pm

    I am a soldier been one for years and I have loads of experience here. Here is the problem Assad's faces. United States btw.

    1. Despite what the experts here think, Jihadists aren't stupid. they purposely scout extensively for a weakly defend area one with the best chance and they will rush the vehicles at this point of the line. Now I did do some training Iraqi Army when ISIS entered that area. they do not rush the vehicles in open areas they purposely choose tight areas that offer cover. They don't not use these tactics in open areas. Now I assume they have accurate data thanks to their backers on the positions of the SAA. so this makes rushing them with VBIED's easy. ATGM missles aren't deployed in tight nit areas the effectiveness of a tank is insanely hurt when entering urban areas.

    2. I have wrecked tanks because they make the foolish error of getting caught in an area that made them vulnerable.

    3. These tactics are very very very hard to counter, they are launched suddenly and with more then one vehicle given the fact the weakest line points are targeted this makes stopping them hard has hell. Almost most of the time a simple LMG won't do much. unless you get some lucky ass shot on the driver but the drivers tends to stay low. This is not a reliable means to stop them and frankly is more Hollywood then anything else.

    4. The drivers mission isn't to get right on you just close enough, that's all they need

    5. unless you have some distance between you and the vehicle not much you can do.

    6. If you find yourself being charged you want to take out the engine, we always aimed for that. A tube launcher is good enough to wreck the vehicle before it gets close granted this requires some skill or you can spray and pray I guess.

    7. Static defenses are worthless, they will always go for areas that do not have any that's the entire point of this tactic. Only a idiot would rush a mined area with anti-tank trenches.

    8. I have seen many of their methods using babies with explosives below them to kill anyone who comes near the kid. Seen a few guys die to that.

    9. Heat munitions are your best chance here, if you cannot fall back. There is no excuse to stand there shooting at an VBIED with a rifle unless it's do or die. Trying to defeat an enemy with a weapon not in anyway meant to and being expected to is merely the sign of those who have no real experience in said matters. "Just shoot at the truck" sounds easy when typed but its one million times harder in person thrust me here.

    10. This questions is hard to answers in the end it all depends on so many factors, I have seen tons of different ways VBIED's have been used that have adapted to fit methods to counter them. The enemy also learns.

    Car bombs are greats at opening pockets with the sheer force of the explosion and the shock and awe effect most run if one of those goes off near them for good reason you don't need to be that close to be killed. It's cheap and if it works well you just made a game changing play.

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Re: How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:11 pm

    Example of an attack I faced, I was with a unit of the Iraq army. Long story short we start getting blasted by what we call "indiscriminate fire" from portable mortars. This fire was meant to keep us pinned and a few trucks loaded with explosives soon appeared they had cover from infantry who used very selectively placed fields of fire. Mores means to make us stay down, Still we had no choice but to oppose it. Despite them tossing encouragement at us to keep us pinned. While we stopped the attack it was not without cost. They timed the attack and phases of it very well frankly. They had a three layer rational volley of mortars with good small arms support. It was a tactic meant to subdue the defenders and allow the vehicle access range. While we have heavy weapons emplacements, they where utterly suppressed if not taken out.

    The vehicles are heavy you see loaded with all that explosives, so this made targeting them easy. We waited until they entered out effective firing range and then destroyed them while taking huge risk to do so. We had to stick our heads out and anytime we did the enemy went for them.

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    Re: How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

    Post  Resistance on Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:25 pm

    Kornet has thermal sight and auto tracker. Kornet works very well in Iraq against car bombs.

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    Re: How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:31 pm

    Resistance wrote:Kornet has thermal sight and auto tracker. Kornet works very well in Iraq against car bombs.

    India is the largest operator of Kornets at around 3k.

    The next is 1k.

    This isn't enough to create a good enough laid defense period in all defensive fire locations., these weapons would be placed to counter armor only given their extremely low numbers. This is not a tactic one could use all the time only in rare occasions.

    Rarely do I see VBIED's engage with anti tank guided missiles.

    Resistance
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    Re: How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

    Post  Resistance on Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:33 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Resistance wrote:Kornet has thermal sight and auto tracker. Kornet works very well in Iraq against car bombs.

    India is the largest operator of Kornets at around 3k.

    The next is 1k.

    This isn't enough to create a good enough laid defense period in all defensive fire locations., these weapons would be placed to counter armor only given their extremely low numbers. This is not a tactic one could use all the time only in rare occasions.

    Rarely do I see VBIED's engage with anti tank guided missiles.

    Jihadists only have about 10 SVBIEDs for their biggest offensives. 100 Kornets is enough to stop that. Jihadists may be good against SAA, but against Israel or Russia or Iraq they are NOBODIES.

    GarryB
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    Re: How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:56 am

    If you are going to use ATGMs against trucks you might as well use very cheap simple ones like AT-3 or Metis-M


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    JohninMK
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    Re: How to counter jihadist's car bombs ?

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:31 pm

    Video of a classic 'how not to defend'


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