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    Syrian Civil War: News #9

    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:40 pm

    Syrian Civil War: News #9 - Page 22 Cr1Z7E_UAAAjs-H

    Bit***z: Aleppa Nash! ;-)
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    Post  Khepesh on Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:20 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Yeah: ride on a M60. Guaranteed BBQ.

    No seriously...it's impossible to get a well protected position in this war because the numbers are too small and the terrain too hostile.

    Northern Syria= Bald plains or medium sized hamlets with great kill funnel (we all have seen those nasty ATGM shots all war long).
    Southern Syria...Desert.
    Eastern Syria Desert and small hamlets...
    Western Syria Huge ass ridge impossible to attack with mechanized forces without getting pieced.

    The tactical advantage that ISIS and the beardies have on such troops is that they don't need to disguise their vehicles or have a huge footprint, they can wait until the Mech force needs to halt to assess the progress. Kurds hit the Turks exactly like that. ISIS ddin't do it differently. The Turks and Syrians do...because those are force multipliers. Also hull down means nothing in this case, the ATGM hit the turret on the first tank which started cook off. Second tank was hit on the trapshot ERA which eased off the penetration. Still 4 wounded (driver is critical according to twitter, tank's turret ring is fucked, 't was a miracle it didn't brew and I don't belive on "slight injury" from Turkish press).

    In this case unless they were sporting T90's/Leo2 they were goners anyway.
    Hull down reduces target visibility by 50% and makes it a bit harder for the enemy, so is worthwhile. They were in the open on the forward slope of a ridge when they should have been in hull, or even turret down positions on the reverse slope, no excuse not to do this. If and when they need to advance over the ridge, were is their reccon, they know the nature of what they face so no need to send tanks in completely open. If they see terrain or buildings that are likely to hide enemy, then use speculative fire to see if it stirs them up, and then if necessary call down artillery strike, and in situation that looks bad from the beginning, hit it with artillery first anyway, or at least use their tanks as artillery. They broke the most basic rule of tank warfare, exposing themselves in full view on a ridge tracks up while remaining stationary, they may as well have been static targets on a range, total incompetance by them. And while hight of M-60 makes it a big target, the trunnions are sufficiently high and the commander is so high up that hull or turret down positions from reverse slope are easier for it than with T-72.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:46 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Yeah: ride on a M60. Guaranteed BBQ.

    No seriously...it's impossible to get a well protected position in this war because the numbers are too small and the terrain too hostile.

    Northern Syria= Bald plains or medium sized hamlets with great kill funnel (we all have seen those nasty ATGM shots all war long).
    Southern Syria...Desert.
    Eastern Syria Desert and small hamlets...
    Western Syria Huge ass ridge impossible to attack with mechanized forces without getting pieced.

    The tactical advantage that ISIS and the beardies have on such troops is that they don't need to disguise their vehicles or have a huge footprint, they can wait until the Mech force needs to halt to assess the progress. Kurds hit the Turks exactly like that. ISIS ddin't do it differently. The Turks and Syrians do...because those are force multipliers. Also hull down means nothing in this case, the ATGM hit the turret on the first tank which started cook off. Second tank was hit on the trapshot ERA which eased off the penetration. Still 4 wounded (driver is critical according to twitter, tank's turret ring is fucked, 't was a miracle it didn't brew and I don't belive on "slight injury" from Turkish press).

    In this case unless they were sporting T90's/Leo2 they were goners anyway.
    Hull down reduces target visibility by 50% and makes it a bit harder for the enemy, so is worthwhile. They were in the open on the forward slope of a ridge when they should have been in hull, or even turret down positions on the reverse slope, no excuse not to do this. If and when they need to advance over the ridge, were is their reccon, they know the nature of what they face so no need to send tanks in completely open. If they see terrain or buildings that are likely to hide enemy, then use speculative fire to see if it stirs them up, and then if necessary call down artillery strike, and in situation that looks bad from the beginning, hit it with artillery first anyway, or at least use their tanks as artillery. They broke the most basic rule of tank warfare, exposing themselves in full view on a ridge tracks up while remaining stationary, they may as well have been static targets on a range, total incompetance by them. And while hight of M-60 makes it a big target, the trunnions are sufficiently high and the commander is so high up that hull or turret down positions from reverse slope are easier for it than with T-72.

    Again not trying to defend Turks here. Just saying that the could have been hull down all day long and still get wrecked.

    About Reccon. There's a battalion tops trying to manage a 25 km front with beardies...it's not the US army, it's a NATO army that hasn't still moved from early 90's and the Cold war. If I were the ATGM crew I'd have shot the Cobra and FNSS/M15 on the back (more dead Turks) than those two tanks that are blind as hell if not supported.

    Don't forget these guys have probably never fought anything else than lightly armed Kurds in shut down towns and villages. Here they have to move with a bunch of ISIS copycats and try and use them as cannon fodder. While ISIS is facing 3/4 types of forces all around the fucking globe. If anything, Turkey better keep fighting Kurds near the border than push into ISIS heartland with cardboard armor. Konkurs doesn't take prisonners.
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    Post  Khepesh on Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:58 pm

    Yeah, I know your'e not defending them. I was more concerned with pointing out what they do wrong, and if it is representative of state of Turkish Army, then the re-conquest of Thrace and Konstantinopolos, eventually, could be easier than thought Twisted Evil
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    Post  calm on Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:35 pm

    Syrian airstrikes destroy arms depot for rebels in Idlib
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:10 pm

    calm wrote:Syrian airstrikes destroy arms depot for rebels in Idlib
    That thick black smoke and no explosions makes it look like an oil dump not an arms depot that's been hit.
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:27 pm

    New Peto map. Serious gains being made.

    Syrian Civil War: News #9 - Page 22 Cr2U-n8WgAI9yuh
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    Post  arpakola on Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:53 am



    off they go ..
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/jihadist-commanders-reported-dead-aleppo/

    Syrian Civil War: News #9 - Page 22 14199282_1253792504639698_6129845591735078763_n
    calm
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    Post  calm on Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:05 am

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/files/live/sites/almonitor/files/documents/ratney_letter_syria_rebels_us_russia_deal.pdf

    Full letter here / http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/files/live/sites/almonitor/files/documents/ratney_letter_syria_rebels_us_russia_deal.pdf

    Laughing
    In addition, there are a number of other procedures concerning Aleppo that will be implemented

    First: It is expected that the ceasefire will include a total cessation of military operations by the
    regime, pro-regime forces and the opposition in the Ramouseh Road area. After the ceasefire
    begins, humanitarian aid from the UN will enter the city of Aleppo.

    Second: Two checkpoints will be set-up on Castello Road to ensure freedom of movement for
    humanitarian aid and passage from and to the city of Aleppo. Details concerning these two
    checkpoints, including which parties will oversee them, will be agreed upon between us and Russia.
    We expect to need the cooperation of armed opposition factions in the area to safely set up the
    checkpoints.

    Third: After we resume the ceasefire and two checkpoints are established, the regime and proregime
    forces will withdraw from Castello road. Castello Road will become a demilitarized zone, and
    specifically the regime will carry this out:
    -Withdraw heavy weaponry, such as armored fighting vehicles, infantry vehicles, tanks, artillery and
    mortars, to a distance 3,500 meters north of the road
    -Withdraw machine-guns that require more than one person to operate, BTR-60 armored personnel
    carriers and BMP1s without anti-armor rocket launchers, to a distance of 2,500 meters north of the
    road.
    -Withdraw all persons, with the exception of those in the two observation points, to a distance of
    1,000 meters north of the road, and limit their weapons to small arms and light machine guns.
    -On the south side of the road, withdraw all persons, weapons, and equipment to a distance of 500
    meters from the road.
    -Establish two observation points at a distance of no less than 500 meters north of Castello Road,
    with no more than 15 persons, to be armed with small arms only for purposes of self-defense and
    defending the observation equipment.
    -Do not obstruct any humanitarian, civil or trade traffic on Castello Road.
    -Do not enter into areas from which opposition factions have withdrawn, nor establish sites in
    demilitarized zones, aside from the two observation points.

    Fourth: The option should respect the demilitarized zone on Castello Road, which will require
    opposition forces also to withdraw from specific areas. We will soon inform you of the details of
    these requirements. However, in general, it is expected that the opposition factions will not
    obstruct any humanitarian, civil, or trade traffic on Castello Road; will not enter areas from which
    the regime and pro-regime forces have withdrawn; or establish positions in demilitarized areas. The
    opposition should also make every effort to prevent Jabhat Fatah al-Sham forces from advancing
    into the demilitarized area from adjacent opposition-held areas.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:09 am

    Is this for real?
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:41 am

    Another 'is this for real' moment. Not sure where to put it but it is Syrian refugees that it is aimed at

    The largest ever humanitarian program in the history of the EU, is now underway in Turkey. The humanitarian effort comes in the form of a $393 million helicopter drop of Debit Cards and Cash to Refugees in Turkey as Part of Migration Deal.

    As many as one million refugees in Turkey will receive debit cards and monthly cash transfers to help pay for food and housing under a new €348 million ($393 million) humanitarian program from the European Union announced on Thursday. The EU’s largest-ever humanitarian program is part of a €3 billion package of assistance the bloc promised Turkey to support some three million refugees the country hosts, mainly from Syria.

    “The European Union is keeping its promise to assist Turkey in hosting the largest refugee population in the world,” Mr. Stylianides said. When it comes to humanitarian assistance, “our cooperation with Turkish authorities has been excellent,” he added. The new EU aid program will be overseen by the World Food Program, in cooperation with the Turkish Red Crescent. Each family’s need will be assessed individually and there are additional funds available for education or supporting elderly family members, Mr. Stylianides said.

    Ertharin Cousin, the WFP’s executive director, said the debit-card project “is an exciting step forward.” “The money spent by the refugees will go directly into local economies, giving a boost to communities so generously hosting refugees,” she added.

    Of the €3 billion pledged, the EU has now earmarked projects valued at €2.2 billion for Turkey’s refugees, including humanitarian aid and programs to provide health, education and other services for migrants. Of that amount, €652 million has been contracted and €181 million has been spent.

    How Far Will €3 billion Go? The EU pledged €3 billion. There are 3 million refugees.

    If no more refugees arrive (fat chance), and none of the money disappears down some graft-hole (fat chance), then each refugee will get €1,000.
    Exciting First Step. This is indeed an “exciting step”. Let’s look ahead at the logical progression of following steps.

    Step-by-Step Progression

    More refugees will seek free handouts.
    Turkey will complain €3 billion is not enough.
    The refugees will complain €1,000 is not enough.
    EU citizens will wonder why refugees are getting €1,000 and they are not.
    Demands for an EU-wide helicopter drop of free debit cards will soar.
    The amounts demanded will soar.
    Some economist will propose the debit cards will expire if not used quickly.
    And then, and then ….

    Point eight requires an explanation: Under Eurozone rules the ECB cannot simply print money and give it away. Countries have budget constraints.

    So, either taxes go up to pay for the scheme, or the EMU rules have to change.

    Place your bets. More excitement is sure to follow.


    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-08/exciting-step-forward-helicopter-drop-debit-cards-refugees-turkey
    calm
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    Post  calm on Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:50 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Is this for real?

    In negotiation, one side starts with the impossible, but only if winning, which is not the case here.
    https://twitter.com/EjmAlrai/status/774151702635130881
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:55 pm

    calm wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Is this for real?

    In negotiation, one side starts with the impossible, but only if winning, which is not the case here.
    https://twitter.com/EjmAlrai/status/774151702635130881
    The guys are insane....
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:55 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    calm wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Is this for real?

    In negotiation, one side starts with the impossible, but only if winning, which is not the case here.
    https://twitter.com/EjmAlrai/status/774151702635130881
    The guys are insane....

    Who?
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:05 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    calm wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Is this for real?

    In negotiation, one side starts with the impossible, but only if winning, which is not the case here.
    https://twitter.com/EjmAlrai/status/774151702635130881
    The guys are insane....

    Who?

    The U.S. State Dept.
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:12 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    calm wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Is this for real?

    In negotiation, one side starts with the impossible, but only if winning, which is not the case here.
    https://twitter.com/EjmAlrai/status/774151702635130881
    The guys are insane....

    Who?

    The U.S. State Dept.

    Got it.
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    Post  calm on Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:23 pm

    Looks like they need a ceasefire in Latakia.

    Syrian Civil War: News #9 - Page 22 Cr6S_PjWgAE00c3
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:32 pm

    calm wrote:Looks like they need a ceasefire in Latakia.

    Syrian Civil War: News #9 - Page 22 Cr6S_PjWgAE00c3

    Syrian Civil War: News #9 - Page 22 ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F8nlwLmhehSw%2Fmaxresdefault
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    Post  airstrike on Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:04 pm

    Video: Rebels target a group of Syrian Army troops with a Kornet ATGM in Aleppo

    http://echelon-defense.com/2016/09/09/video-rebels-target-a-group-of-syrian-army-troops-with-a-kornet-atgm-in-aleppo/
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:10 pm

    calm wrote:http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/files/live/sites/almonitor/files/documents/ratney_letter_syria_rebels_us_russia_deal.pdf

    Full letter here / http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/files/live/sites/almonitor/files/documents/ratney_letter_syria_rebels_us_russia_deal.pdf

    Laughing
    In addition, there are a number of other procedures concerning Aleppo that will be implemented

    ..............................


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    Cool
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    Post  storm333 on Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:03 pm

    calm wrote:http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/files/live/sites/almonitor/files/documents/ratney_letter_syria_rebels_us_russia_deal.pdf

    Full letter here / http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/files/live/sites/almonitor/files/documents/ratney_letter_syria_rebels_us_russia_deal.pdf


    Syrian Civil War: News #9 - Page 22 This-i10
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    Post  auslander on Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:41 pm

    [quote="PapaDragon"][quote="calm"]http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/files/live/sites/almonitor/files/documents/ratney_letter_syria_rebels_us_russia_deal.pdf

    Full letter here / http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/files/live/sites/almonitor/files/documents/ratney_letter_syria_rebels_us_russia_deal.pdf

    Laughing
    In addition, there are a number of other procedures concerning Aleppo that will be implemented

    This is the ultimatum given to Russia the other day and this is what US DoD and MSM is saying is a done deal. They've got to stop coming up with these bovine scatology stories, I've laughed so much it hurts.
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    Post  medo on Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:13 pm

    Are Putin and Lavrov still laughing or they are coming to themselves now?
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:13 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    calm wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Is this for real?

    In negotiation, one side starts with the impossible, but only if winning, which is not the case here.
    https://twitter.com/EjmAlrai/status/774151702635130881
    The guys are insane....

    Who?

    US DoS/

    Hillarization of the DoS seems to have damaged any sane brain cell remaining. Oh well, Bombs away...
    calm
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    Post  calm on Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:34 pm

    East Homs russia
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