Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Share

    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  max steel on Mon May 30, 2016 2:28 pm

    And some people think THAAD-ER and S-500 have same capabilities. THAAD is a poor man's S-300. Wink


    @John: http://www.russiadefence.net/t5164p25-united-states-national-missile-defense#134441

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 30, 2016 2:35 pm

    max steel wrote:The B-2A Spirit is the only operational type in the US inventory, other than the F-22, which can survive in a modern IADS. While recent developments such as ramjet propulsion to improve kinematics, and multimode seekers to attack non-emitting targets, will improve anti-radiation missile effectiveness against high mobility threats, russia cannot address the active use of countermeasures against the missile seeker, and the use of defensive fire against the missile itself.      



    btw can russian harm missiles like Kh-58U and Kh-31 neutralise enemy IADS ?



    Firstly, I don't think F-22 or B-2 would survive because it isn't just X band radar but various others like L band and Ka band monitoring. And passive signaling and triangulation is also used.

    Also, any anti radiation missiles would work, why wouldn't it? They are cruise missiles and abm sites are not particularly designed to engage cruise missiles or some Salvo strikes (no site is) but of course they can have other systems protecting the site meant to engage cruise missiles and PGM's. But of course, no system is 100% effective and even less so against a heavy strike.

    Singular_trafo
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 142
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2016-04-16

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Mon May 30, 2016 6:15 pm

    Interesting qestion, if the S-500 will be capable to intercept high level ICBMs and nuclear warhead , then it must has radiation resistant electronics.

    By my best knowledge russia doesn't has capacity to manufacture these circuits.
    They will use Chinese electronics in the interceptor rockets?

    Additionaly, the S-X00 radar can handle ECM blindness?

    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  max steel on Mon May 30, 2016 9:19 pm

    most modern Russian radars employ jammer angle tracking techniques, which combined with pervasive networking, will provide missile batteries with an organic capability to target SAMs against jamming aircraft. The potential for alternate SAM seeker types increases this risk.

    The integration of passive Emitter Locating Systems into SAM batteries provides at a minimum an ability to overcome jamming, and at worst an organic targeting capability exploiting emissions from the jammer.

    Support jamming aircraft have been a priority target since the Soviet era, and the S-300V/SA-12 system had specific angle tracking capabilities designed in for this very purpose during the 1980s. Current Russian thinking is to employ very long range SAMs to kill support jamming aircraft in their standoff orbits. By extending SAM kinematic range past 120 nautical miles, the Russians have driven aircraft using the extant ALQ-99 Tactical Jamming System (EA-6B/EA-18G) outside of the power-aperture envelope where this system performs most effectively.


    Russia KRET and RnD on optics has all the capability to take such measures.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 30, 2016 9:27 pm

    Singular_trafo wrote:Interesting qestion, if the S-500 will be capable to intercept high level ICBMs and nuclear warhead , then it must has radiation resistant electronics.

    By my best knowledge russia doesn't has capacity to manufacture these circuits.
    They will use Chinese electronics in the interceptor rockets?

    Additionaly, the S-X00 radar can handle ECM blindness?
    Russia's military microelectronics are made in Zelenograd. Micron plant and Angstrom-T.

    Singular_trafo
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 142
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2016-04-16

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Mon May 30, 2016 9:54 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Singular_trafo wrote:Interesting qestion, if the S-500 will be capable to intercept high level ICBMs and nuclear warhead , then it must has radiation resistant electronics.

    By my best knowledge russia doesn't has capacity to manufacture these circuits.
    They will use Chinese electronics in the interceptor rockets?

    Additionaly, the S-X00 radar can handle ECM blindness?
    Russia's military microelectronics are made in Zelenograd. Micron plant and Angstrom-T.

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-says-preparing-rocket-engine-deal-with-china/538631.html

    “We are talking about an agreement to supply Russian rocket engines [to China], and the reciprocal delivery of Chinese micro-electronics that we need for things like the construction of spacecraft,” Rogozin was quoted as saying.


    Spacecraft= radiation hardened electronics.

    Reason why Russia started to manufacture MRAM.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 30, 2016 10:23 pm

    China uses basic Motorola processors for mil in radiation environment. What do you think Russia been using for years? They have a wide selection. Elbrus 2C is designed for radar use. Hence need anti radiation shielding. And even then, it is all in special housing.

    I suggest looking it up. Maybe do a bit more research.

    These are a good start:
    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.ca/2009/11/russian-chip-makers-part-1.html
    and
    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.ca/2009/11/russian-chip-makers-part-2.html

    producers:
    http://multicore.ru/
    http://www.mikron.ru/en/
    http://www.module.ru/

    Of course there are probably subcomponents that need to be imported. And as you mentioned, they just started recently on MRAM so that was another one they had to import in the past.

    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2544
    Points : 2677
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  kvs on Mon May 30, 2016 11:46 pm

    The Russian military has been using custom ASICs for years. CPUs are overkill in many applications and having custom
    logic can do a better and faster job than software emulation on a generic CPU. This aspect is totally lost on many
    "experts".

    http://www.mri-progress.ru/en/about/info/

    http://cordis.europa.eu/docs/projects/cnect/2/247992/080/deliverables/001-Annex6D21SEMIDEC.pdf

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Tue May 31, 2016 2:08 am

    kvs wrote:The Russian military has been using custom ASICs for years.   CPUs are overkill in many applications and having custom
    logic can do a better and faster job than software emulation on a generic CPU.   This aspect is totally lost on many
    "experts".

    http://www.mri-progress.ru/en/about/info/

    http://cordis.europa.eu/docs/projects/cnect/2/247992/080/deliverables/001-Annex6D21SEMIDEC.pdf

    Totally correct and I didn't have much links for it. Thank you for finding this.

    Singular_trafo
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 142
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2016-04-16

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Tue May 31, 2016 6:54 pm

    sepheronx wrote:China uses basic Motorola processors for mil in radiation environment. What do you think Russia been using for years? They have a wide selection. Elbrus 2C is designed for radar use. Hence need anti radiation shielding. And even then, it is all in special housing.

    I suggest looking it up. Maybe do a bit more research.

    These are a good start:
    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.ca/2009/11/russian-chip-makers-part-1.html
    and
    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.ca/2009/11/russian-chip-makers-part-2.html

    producers:
    http://multicore.ru/
    http://www.mikron.ru/en/
    http://www.module.ru/

    Of course there are probably subcomponents that need to be imported. And as you mentioned, they just started recently on MRAM so that was another one they had to import in the past.

    Rad hardened means "radioactive radiation hardened electronics"- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hardening

    It is easy to electromagneticaly shield somethng, needs same metal plate , but to radiation shielding you need 10cm thick lead shielding.


    Radiation hardened electronics must be manufactured by completly different methods and production control compared to consumer electronics .As a start it must ues silicon on insulator (example saphire waffer)

    The selling of rad hardened electronics require special approvals everywhere, an considered weapons , or part of weapons of mass destruction.

    All nucelar weapon delivery system, satelite or other orbital equipment , anything that must work in radiation contaminated enviroment (like a anti ICBM rocket) must have radiation hardened electronics.

    Example up to 2010 the Soyuz capsules used the argon command computers, designed in the 70s , with 70kg mass.

    The russian electronics industry become capable to make rad hard electronics around 2005-2010 , but these biggest problem for russia at the moment the high speed , high capacity rad hardened optical / data processing systems.

    That is the reason of the MRAM development, that is rad hardened by design, fast has low power consumption.






    Last edited by Singular_trafo on Tue May 31, 2016 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Singular_trafo
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 142
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2016-04-16

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Tue May 31, 2016 7:01 pm

    kvs wrote:The Russian military has been using custom ASICs for years. CPUs are overkill in many applications and having custom
    logic can do a better and faster job than software emulation on a generic CPU. This aspect is totally lost on many
    "experts".

    http://www.mri-progress.ru/en/about/info/

    http://cordis.europa.eu/docs/projects/cnect/2/247992/080/deliverables/001-Annex6D21SEMIDEC.pdf


    ASIC means "Application Sepcific Integrated Circuit"

    It can contain a cpu, memories, DSPs and whatever you want.Typicaly it is a periphery controller for a computer.

    What is more common in military application is the SoC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_on_a_chip

    But example for image processing you want a programable computer, to be able to update and change the software to update it with the newthermal/optical fingerprints for new enemy airplanes, or to change the encryption keys.


    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5681
    Points : 6087
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Austin on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:25 am

    I have added specification section let me know if I am missing something

    http://austinstalk.blogspot.in/2016/05/s-500-air-space-defense-system.html

    The big puzzle for me on on S-500 radar we know from Almaz statement that it will be X band AESA must be MFCR but Range and if there are other supporting radar.

    Also if they can integrate 40N6 with S-500 missile then they can take on SRBM to ICBM target with 3 different interceptor

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:34 pm

    Singular_trafo wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:China uses basic Motorola processors for mil in radiation environment. What do you think Russia been using for years? They have a wide selection. Elbrus 2C is designed for radar use. Hence need anti radiation shielding. And even then, it is all in special housing.

    I suggest looking it up. Maybe do a bit more research.

    These are a good start:
    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.ca/2009/11/russian-chip-makers-part-1.html
    and
    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.ca/2009/11/russian-chip-makers-part-2.html

    producers:
    http://multicore.ru/
    http://www.mikron.ru/en/
    http://www.module.ru/

    Of course there are probably subcomponents that need to be imported.  And as you mentioned, they just started recently on MRAM so that was another one they had to import in the past.

    Rad hardened means "radioactive radiation hardened electronics"- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hardening

    It is easy to electromagneticaly shield somethng, needs same metal plate , but to radiation shielding you need 10cm  thick  lead shielding.


    Radiation hardened electronics must be manufactured by completly different methods and production control compared to consumer electronics .As a start it must ues silicon on insulator (example saphire waffer)

    The selling of rad hardened electronics require special approvals everywhere, an considered weapons , or part of weapons of mass destruction.

    All nucelar weapon delivery system, satelite or other orbital equipment , anything that must work in radiation contaminated enviroment (like a anti ICBM rocket) must have radiation hardened electronics.

    Example up to 2010 the Soyuz capsules used the argon command computers, designed in the 70s , with 70kg mass.

    The russian electronics industry become capable to make rad hard electronics around 2005-2010 , but these biggest problem for russia at the moment the high speed , high capacity rad hardened optical / data processing systems.

    That is the reason of the MRAM development, that is rad hardened by design, fast has low power consumption.





    And China isn't major producer either. Actually, if looking back only a few years, US has been using their Intel i960 processors for such applications. What module and Elvees supplies are modern chips of both MIPS and now ARM as well. Their use in satellites are obvious indication on radioactive shielding (not all of it are onboard based. Shielding is and has been done on housing) due to massive radiation levels in space.

    Singular_trafo
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 142
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2016-04-16

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:52 pm

    sepheronx wrote:

    And China isn't major producer either. Actually, if looking back only a few years, US has been using their Intel i960 processors for such applications. What module and Elvees supplies are modern chips of both MIPS and now ARM as well. Their use in satellites are obvious indication on radioactive shielding (not all of it are onboard based. Shielding is and has been done on housing) due to massive radiation levels in space.

    Russia doesn't have other choice.

    In Europe/taiwan/japan all producer controlled by the US (appart from few French one - maybe)

    An old, 486 (or even motorola 68000 ) CPU fine for controlling/patch adjustment, but not enoguht for radar/visual data processing.
    For that you need fast and good processors/memories/controller/custom ICs (ASIC).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS-K2

    This showing well the problems that russia facing with advanced rad hard electronics.
    In the case of the GLONASS-K1, the foreign components were up to 90% of the electronics. And thus without substitution the modernization program could not make modern spacecrafts. He stated that the first generation of GLONASS spacecraft were created under such a ban and thus had been an inferior product with just 3 years of expected life
    From presentation seems like they expected 3 years to make the next glonass from russian made components, means that they has to start from the scratch the menufacturing of them.

    Means that the Micron and company has to start prototype production for thousand of new products, putting onto the edge the capacity of it.


    Actualy the "3 years of expected life" that you get with radiation shielding, without using proper radiation hardened components.
    for something that doesn't has 3 tonns of weight and expected life of three years you need radiation hardened components.

    Singular_trafo
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 142
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2016-04-16

    s-500

    Post  Singular_trafo on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:26 pm

    I think the high altitude ballistic interceptor rocket will suffer similar delivery time problem like the Glonass-K.
    They has to integrate teh Chinese radhard parts,and manufacture russian made ones to finish the interceptors.

    Not like it is a big deal, the ICBM interceptor can be considered as the most less usefull piece of equipment.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:49 pm

    Singular_trafo wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    And China isn't major producer either. Actually, if looking back only a few years, US has been using their Intel i960 processors for such applications. What module and Elvees supplies are modern chips of both MIPS and now ARM as well. Their use in satellites are obvious indication on radioactive shielding (not all of it are onboard based. Shielding is and has been done on housing) due to massive radiation levels in space.

    Russia doesn't have other choice.

    In Europe/taiwan/japan all producer controlled by the US (appart from few French one - maybe)

    An old, 486 (or even motorola 68000 ) CPU fine for controlling/patch adjustment, but not enoguht for radar/visual data processing.
    For that you need fast and good processors/memories/controller/custom ICs (ASIC).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS-K2

    This showing well the problems that russia facing with advanced rad hard electronics.
    In the case of the GLONASS-K1, the foreign components were up to 90% of the electronics. And thus without substitution the modernization program could not make modern spacecrafts. He stated that the first generation of GLONASS spacecraft were created under such a ban and thus had been an inferior product with just 3 years of expected life
    From presentation seems like they expected 3 years to make the next glonass from russian made components, means that they has to start from the scratch the menufacturing of them.

    Means that the Micron and company has to start prototype production for thousand of new products, putting onto the edge the capacity of it.


    Actualy the "3 years of expected life" that you get with radiation shielding, without using proper radiation hardened components.
    for something that doesn't has 3 tonns of weight and expected life of three years you need radiation hardened components.

    You are using comparisons of technology that works 24/7 in space vs an object that is following a nuclear missile to hit it.  Doesn't require the same components I hope you know.  And Glonass K was built using foreign components but that doesn't mean that they don't use their own.  As mentioned, if you want system on chip that will work in radiation, Elbrus 2C+ is what you are looking at, since it was designed for radar installations.  If you want to believe it or not, is not our problem.  It is being built by Micran and Zelenograd apparently.  My father build part of NORADS missile defense complexes back in the 80's and its radar systems.  Essentially nuclear missiles are not exactly seeping out radiation since they are heavily contained, but still dangerous to walk around.  That isn't anything that will cause major faults or issues with any electronics in its use in interceptors.  That said, I am certain Russian specialists have figured it out since they, you know, building the complexes.  And no, I bet it isn't using any Chinese components cause they really don't need to.  As mentioned, these interceptors sit on the ground, not in space floating around for 3 years Wink

    Singular_trafo wrote:I think the high altitude ballistic interceptor rocket will suffer similar delivery time problem like the Glonass-K.
    They has to integrate teh Chinese radhard parts,and manufacture russian made ones to finish the interceptors.

    Not like it is a big deal, the ICBM interceptor can be considered as the most less usefull piece of equipment.

    You are aware there is a difference between a ground based system and a space based object, right?  No, there could be parts. But that is something we will probably never know.

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3237
    Points : 3361
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:29 am

    Singular_trafo wrote:Interesting qestion, if the S-500 will be capable to intercept high level ICBMs and nuclear warhead , then it must has radiation resistant electronics.

    By my best knowledge russia doesn't has capacity to manufacture these circuits.
    They will use Chinese electronics in the interceptor rockets?

    Additionaly, the S-X00 radar can handle ECM blindness?

    Dude , i really think you are seriously misinformed. wikipedia is not really the best
    source of information ,just get that right for once. and Russia was first in space, first in the Moon ,Mars and Venus a decade or two earlier before than NASA in most of them ,and in Venus NASA not even have been there, and the radiation in open space is the most brutal you can get ,not mentioned either the below zero ,-270.45 Celsius. that any probe needs to survive there.

    Lunokhod the Russian Rover was in the moon in 1970 for more than a year , taking photos.
    and China was not remotely a power in those time ,even less had any technology. So contrary
    to your believe Russia do have plenty of experience dealing with Radiation, even more than
    your wikipedia reality claims.

    You also commented ,suggested that Russia semiconductor industry was at the level
    of Intel 486 lol1  how an we even have a discussion with so much ignorance from your part.

    take a look how since 2000 , Russian engineers were leading Intel Pentium pro processors.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/06/07/intel_uses_russia_military_technologies/

    Russia have more experience in computers than you think. and definitively their
    latest processors are not at the level of technology released by Intel 15 years ago that
    were running at 11 megaherz speed. Rolling Eyes   The west is definitively ahead in semicondutors
    no question in that but  Russia semiconductor industry is not obsolete by any means , is just at the level of 3 to 5 years ago in terms of graphics but ahead in other operations. Seph can educate you more on that about what Russia have achieved.

    About the Electronics in Russia "being obsolete" as you try to make it look , i bet you don't
    realize that Electronics is yesterday technology ,and the new thing today is Photronics, which
    Russia is AHEAD of Americans in this.  This does not use cooper wires to create circuits ,
    instead it use a totally new system , that use light to transmission of information. This is light years ahead of electronics and this is the reason why Russia is far ahead than Americans in Counter Electronics. Isn't that funny how the "more superior nation in electronics" is behind
    Russia in Counter electronics?  

    Comparing modern electronics with photronics is like comparing 8 track tapes recording
    with Blue Ray recordable disk today ,that even can last a thousand years .

    So dismount from that old horse already of the western being better in already obsolete technology today. I remember how 10 years ago ,when a Professor of the Electronics course in engineering told me  . how electronics will become totally obsolete in the not long future. And to not get too focused on it ,because it will become obsolete his modern electronics book used to teach engineers. yet you are here making comparisons of who is the best in already obsolete technology. For satellites and space craft ,Russia will replace their electronics with Photronics .
    Just like their next generation Pak-Fa plane already is using something of it.

    So using China electronics at times ,as a stop gap to quickly keep moving forward in space  ,makes sense. because Investing in Obsolete technology for modern military ,that that will have to operate in space and is not very secure ,since can be jammed or hacked or sabotage with interfered ,is not worth of it. Russia do better to invest its money in state of the art technology of the future and not technology the past. and keep using chinesse electronics components until Russia can totally replace their electronics for something much better and much more advanced.



    When it comes to Russian engineers ,what kind of knowledge they had in semicondutors
    and computers you will do good in reading this.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/06/07/intel_uses_russia_military_technologies/

    Russia always had pretty decent knowledge in Semicondutors since computers exist. They could have done much better if it wasn't for the collapse of soviet union ,that allowed Americans to get all Russian talent to Intel and even lead processors there.

    Im sure had the Soviet Union did not collapsed ,and instead American did it. and Russia became the world largest economy and attracted (as american did) the best engineers of America to Russia. then the history will have been totally different. and the most fastest processors and graphics technology will be made in Russia and not in United States.   But when you collect
    the best talent from nations. is very easy to later claim how behind is this or that nation. totally ignoring how Most of American PHD engineers are Foreigners. that moved to america and took the best positions. including Russian engineers ,chinese and Indians.

    I think the next video ,will be very useful for you to understand from where
    it comes the leadership of American Business in technology industry.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0Y9j_CGgM

    Without the Foreign Top Engineers and Scientist that American recruit every year , its entire
    industry will collapse. Im glad that Russia finally kicked all the Americans monitoring their
    Universities to steal their talent . But is so pathetic they waited for sanctions to happen to do that. That should have never allowed to happen . and Russian Universities not allowed
    to be spied by the west.

    Singular_trafo
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 142
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2016-04-16

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:47 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    You are aware there is a difference between a ground based system and a space based object, right?  No, there could be parts. But that is something we will probably never know.

    If we consider the known parameters of the working end course interceptor systems then there are two important parameters:
    1. These use nuclear tiped rockets
    2. The interceptors must go throught areas where the neturon density enought to detonate a nuclear warhed - the warheads must be carefully designed to avoid the risk of premature detonation due to a close (anti ICBM) nuclear blast.



    The first means that the electronic used in the interceptor must survive decade(s) of close proxity of a normal weapon grade warhead ( or the designers must consider to use expensive super grade plutonium : ) )


    Second means the non radhard electronics will die as the rocket flies throught the first blast cloud.



    Last edited by Singular_trafo on Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:41 pm; edited 2 times in total

    Singular_trafo
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 142
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2016-04-16

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:02 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Singular_trafo wrote:Interesting qestion, if the S-500 will be capable to intercept high level ICBMs and nuclear warhead , then it must has radiation resistant electronics.

    By my best knowledge russia doesn't has capacity to manufacture these circuits.
    They will use Chinese electronics in the interceptor rockets?

    Additionaly, the S-X00 radar can handle ECM blindness?

    Dude , i really think you are seriously misinformed. wikipedia is not really the best
    source of information ,just get that right for once. and Russia was first in space, first in the Moon ,Mars and Venus a decade or two earlier before than NASA in most of them ,and in Venus NASA not even have been there, and the radiation in open space is the most brutal you can get ,not mentioned either the below zero ,-270.45 Celsius. that any probe needs to survive there.

    Lunokhod the Russian Rover was in the moon in 1970 for more than a year , taking photos.
    and China was not remotely a power in those time ,even less had any technology. So contrary
    to your believe Russia do have plenty of experience dealing with Radiation, even more than
    your wikipedia reality claims.



    Don't take me wrong, but the Russian Federation is NOT the SU.
    If the SU hasn't had radhard electronics then they just lanuched one satelite in every three years, insetead of every ten years.
    That was the reason why the SU military outlay was the 25-40% of the GDP, decreasing the level of living for the ordinary citizens dramaticaly.

    Russia doesn't want to do everything regardles of the price.

    Russia is more efficient than the SU was ever, means that it can make the same equipment with less resources.

    The russian industry is less advanced in microelectronics than the US (or China, as a matter of fact), but no one can be top level in everything.


    A litle information about the radhard CPUs:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_embedded_computer_systems_on_board_the_Mars_rovers

    The latest one, lanuched in 2011 using similar CPU like the lates version of the Pentium CPU released in 1996.





    franco
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1779
    Points : 1819
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  franco on Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:16 pm

    ASTANA, June 3. / TASS /. Concern "Almaz-Antey" will begin delivery of anti-aircraft missile systems (AAMS) S-400 "Triumph" in June this year, the state defense order, told reporters in the press service of the concern during the exhibition KADEX-2016.

    "In 2016, EKO Concern" Almaz-Antey "in the framework of the state defense order supplies five regimental sets of S-400 in accordance with the three state contracts Deadline delivery conditions -. October 25," - said the press service.

    With the company made it clear that the Defense Ministry will receive at Kapustin Yar, near Astrakhan, one set per month. The last war will have on 25 October. Each kit consists of two missile battalions and command post.
    In total, the Defense Ministry will receive 680 pieces of equipment, the press-service.

    "Almaz-Antey" first supplies of Russian military equipment to the five regiments of the S-400 - previously the largest party consisted of three regimental sets, she was transferred during 2015.
    Previously, the concern already expressed their readiness to advance Ministry of Defense to put five regimental sets of advanced anti-aircraft missile systems. By the end of 2016 the Russian army will have a total of 16 regimental sets of S-400.


    NOTE: units delivered to Kapustin Yar to crew conversion training before heading to their designated permanent posting.

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5630
    Points : 6283
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:03 pm

    That leaves 12 regimental S-400 to be delivered up to 2021 or 12 systems in 4 years. Thats why deliveries to buyers around the globe will commence in 2018.

    It would be interesting to see the next contract for some S-400M still we are long way off.

    Singular_trafo
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 142
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2016-04-16

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:01 pm

    Viktor wrote:That leaves 12 regimental S-400 to be delivered up to 2021 or 12 systems in 4 years. Thats why deliveries to buyers around the globe will commence in 2018.

    It would be interesting to see the next contract for some S-400M still we are long way off.

    What is the composition of the regiments ?

    The wiki is not so clear about it.
    The S-400 should has more than one radar type , and more than one launcher type.

    Any info about the comosition of these?

    franco
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1779
    Points : 1819
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  franco on Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:08 pm

    Singular_trafo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:That leaves 12 regimental S-400 to be delivered up to 2021 or 12 systems in 4 years. Thats why deliveries to buyers around the globe will commence in 2018.

    It would be interesting to see the next contract for some S-400M still we are long way off.

    What is the composition of the regiments ?

    The wiki is not so clear about it.
    The S-400 should has more than one radar type , and more than one launcher type.

    Any info about the comosition of these?

    Generally a regiment consists of;

    - Command & control with a 91N6E target acquisition radar plus command, control and communication vehicles
    - 2 or more (rare) fire battalions with command, control and communication vehicles, use to be 8 TEL's (2 divisions or batteries) but lately are seeing 6 TEL units plus 92N6E multi role radars
    - both types also employee ECM devices
    - generally all at different locations within 100 kilometers

    Are also seeing S300PMU fire battalions being incorporated and S350 fire units will also be incorporated when they arrive (planned for the end of the year).

    Singular_trafo
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 142
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2016-04-16

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:05 am

    franco wrote:
    Singular_trafo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:That leaves 12 regimental S-400 to be delivered up to 2021 or 12 systems in 4 years. Thats why deliveries to buyers around the globe will commence in 2018.

    It would be interesting to see the next contract for some S-400M still we are long way off.

    What is the composition of the regiments ?

    The wiki is not so clear about it.
    The S-400 should has more than one radar type , and more than one launcher type.

    Any info about the comosition of these?

    Generally a regiment consists of;

    - Command & control with a 91N6E target acquisition radar plus command, control and communication vehicles
    - 2 or more (rare) fire battalions with command, control and communication vehicles, use to be 8 TEL's (2 divisions or batteries) but lately are seeing 6 TEL units plus 92N6E multi role radars
    - both types also employee ECM devices
    - generally all at different locations within 100 kilometers

    Are also seeing S300PMU fire battalions being incorporated and S350 fire units will also be incorporated when they arrive (planned for the end of the year).

    Ok, so at the moment Russia has 25 battalions, each of these has 6 TEL + 1 radar at least.

    So the number of launchers is 150 -wiki says 200.

    The US has 483 active patriot.

    So ,Russia will have by the end of the decade as much modern, anti stealth radar systam as many active, non stealth capable air deffence the US has.


    Additionaly russia has close to 1000 active s-300 launchers

    Us has 20000 km coastline, and 12000 km border, russia has 27000 / 20000


    However the russian costline is not populated , in the case of US the coastline isthe main population center.


    So,the US has to deffend at least the same lenght of border or more probably way more than russia, but has no anti-stealth radar system,and has less than half active SAM system than russia.


    So, as soon as China starts to manufacture carriers and subs the US will face a hard choice about defence priorities.

    mack8
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 923
    Points : 983
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  mack8 on Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:03 am

    S-500 official model? From Djoker:
    http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2801467&postcount=44


    Sponsored content

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 5:05 am


      Current date/time is Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:05 am