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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

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    sepheronx
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:30 pm

    It all depends on what the targets are. S-500 will be far more important and there will be a much higher demand for it I would imagine.

    Question is, how is S-500 developed for? Is the engagement in near space or is it on the warhead coming down to its target? Why I ask is because Global Prompt Strike that US is building will be allowed for US to hit any target around the world in minutes, with a conventional warhead/system. Now, in that case, Russia's both mobile and hardened missile bases will be prime targets for this thing, and Russian Air defense systems will need to be able to protect the bases from this device.

    http://en.itar-tass.com/opinions/1901

    In the opinion article, it states that if thousand or more of the US system is capable of taking out 70% of Russia's missiles and then the ABM systems will deal with the rest, then that means that Russia would be incapable of using its ICBM's in retaliation, giving the US a false sense of security to attack Russia.

    So things like S-500 and Morphi is what really becomes important. Are these systems capable of dealing with such a target? If so, then that means Global Prompt Strike system will become less viable option for US.

    Viktor
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Viktor on Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:42 pm

    sepheronx my man, I have read even much darker estimates writen by Russian professionals than that but just as same American can make one too because their shield is still not up and

    running and Russian one is closing in fast.

    besides here is some good news to kill your bad one Very Happy

    NEW STRIKE SYSTEMS ASD DEVELOP UNTIL 2021



    By 2021, to be completed development of prospective strike complexes aerospace defense, said the commander of the air and missile defense command, Major-General Andrei Demin.

    "In addition to creating a system of investigation and prevention of air-space attack until 2021, it is planned to complete the development of promising shock (fire) VVKO funds, to establish their production and begin supplying the troops," - said Demin.


    So its official now. Russia is going after its own Global Promts Strike Sytem by 2021 which will be operated by Aerospace Defense Forces Very Happy russia

    Now its up to US to chunk out similar article of how Putin is bad dude and doesnt bow like EU bit.ches Very Happy

    sepheronx
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:50 pm

    but the question is, would S-500 be capable of dealing against such a system? I would imagine as soon as Russia gets their own up and running, they would test it against their own systems to see if they can defend their facilities from such an attack.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Viktor on Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:57 pm

    sepheronx wrote:but the question is, would S-500 be capable of dealing against such a system?  I would imagine as soon as Russia gets their own up and running, they would test it against their own systems to see if they can defend their facilities from such an attack.


    I hope so, but I dont know. We will have to wait and see what will Russian PVO generals say once the systems finishes its testing phase. If they intend to test S-500 in any similar way Russia

    tested S-300 and all its iterations than I think we have a winner. ( LINK )

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mike E on Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:26 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Great! Give it a few years and it will be the S-500... When that day comes I *might just* die.

    S-500 will certainly be the crown jewel in Russian PVO but Morfei might leave much bigger mark as it could be exported like nuts thus playing its role in the battlefield throughout world.

    Basicaly everything is interesting ... S-300V4, S-350, BUK-M3, new Tor with double the missiles and hit-to-kill missiles, Pancir-SM with double the missiles and range etc etc ....

    Every time a new air defense generation is put in the production a new one enters development phase. Circle must never be broken.

    You have a great point, as Morfei will be the small missile doing all the heavy lifting. 

    Russia sure has a capable SAM armament, and with Morfei, S-500 and S-350.....

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mike E on Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:32 pm

    sepheronx wrote:It all depends on what the targets are.  S-500 will be far more important and there will be a much higher demand for it I would imagine.

    Question is, how is S-500 developed for?  Is the engagement in near space or is it on the warhead coming down to its target?  Why I ask is because Global Prompt Strike that US is building will be allowed for US to hit any target around the world in minutes, with a conventional warhead/system.  Now, in that case, Russia's both mobile and hardened missile bases will be prime targets for this thing, and Russian Air defense systems will need to be able to protect the bases from this device.

    http://en.itar-tass.com/opinions/1901

    In the opinion article, it states that if thousand or more of the US system is capable of taking out 70% of Russia's missiles and then the ABM systems will deal with the rest, then that means that Russia would be incapable of using its ICBM's in retaliation, giving the US a false sense of security to attack Russia.

    So things like S-500 and Morphi is what really becomes important.  Are these systems capable of dealing with such a target?  If so, then that means Global Prompt Strike system will become less viable option for US.

    Great question... I believe that the S-500 actually engages the target unlike the US SM-3 or other similar weapons. S-500 is specially built to kill hypersonic weapons, so their trajectory (Global Prompt Strike) shouldn't be a problem. That being said, it would be tougher for smaller SAMs like the Pantsir, Tor, Buk etc to engage such a fast device. It will have to be left to the larger, faster SAMs in the inventory.

    Don't forget, the US doesn't have such a system in a reliable form... It will take them many years to build such weapons, and like most US projects, it will be a boondoggle. The cost of launching those things must be astronomical!

    S-500; Definite yes. Morfei; Maybe on a good day.


    Last edited by Mike E on Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:04 pm

    What we really need to see is a mobile Moscow Defense System, tell MAZ to create massive TEL designed to fire Moscow Defense missiles!!! Cool

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Viktor on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:20 pm

    Mike E wrote:Great question... I believe that the S-500 actually engages the target unlike the US SM-3 or other similar weapons. S-500 is specially built to kill hypersonic weapons, so their trajectory (Global Prompt Strike) shouldn't be a problem. That being said, it would be tougher for smaller SAMs like the Pantsir, Tor, Buk etc to engage such a fast device. It will have to be left to the larger, faster SAMs in the inventory.

    Don't forget, the US doesn't have such a system in a reliable form... It will take them many years to build such weapons, and like most US projects, it will be a boondoggle. The cost of launching those things must be astronomical!

    S-500; Definite yes. Morfei; Maybe one a good day.

    Mike, the thing is that all AD systems except of S-500 radar systems arent capable even detecting a threat like ICBM as they arent envisaged to do so. Thats why only S-500 will

    be able to do that. Now the thing is that SM-3 uses EKV to kill the target. Because of that its efficiency within the atmosphere is as good as 0 (SM-2/6 are for within the atmosphere)

    while S-500 will be able to shoot down targets in space and within atmosphere suggesting different approach than US one.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mike E on Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:34 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Great question... I believe that the S-500 actually engages the target unlike the US SM-3 or other similar weapons. S-500 is specially built to kill hypersonic weapons, so their trajectory (Global Prompt Strike) shouldn't be a problem. That being said, it would be tougher for smaller SAMs like the Pantsir, Tor, Buk etc to engage such a fast device. It will have to be left to the larger, faster SAMs in the inventory.

    Don't forget, the US doesn't have such a system in a reliable form... It will take them many years to build such weapons, and like most US projects, it will be a boondoggle. The cost of launching those things must be astronomical!

    S-500; Definite yes. Morfei; Maybe one a good day.

    Mike, the thing is that all AD systems except of S-500 radar systems arent capable even detecting a threat like ICBM as they arent envisaged to do so. Thats why only S-500 will

    be able to do that. Now the thing is that SM-3 uses EKV to kill the target. Because of that its efficiency within the atmosphere is as good as 0 (SM-2/6 are for within the atmosphere)

    while S-500 will be able to shoot down targets in space and within atmosphere suggesting different approach than US one.
    You raise a good point... However, the Global Prompt Strike system will "fly" at a lower altitude, essentially becoming a hypersonic cruise missile. So while those radar systems won't be able to tracks its "launch", they should be able to track its descent. At the very least the S-400 should be able to engage the GPS.

    That is its main problem, and it can't really change its trajectory.

    Exactly, and that is the smarter, if somewhat untested approach.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mike E on Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:37 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:What we really need to see is a mobile Moscow Defense System, tell MAZ to create massive TEL designed to fire Moscow Defense missiles!!!  Cool
    I've been thinking about a similar ABM kind of missile system... One that fires larger numbers of "smaller" missile (little larger than the 9M96E2) all with hit-to-kill "warheads". Like I said in my latest post, the GPS is basically a hypersonic cruise missile. Which is something that many Russian SAMs could attack.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:09 am

    Mike E wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:What we really need to see is a mobile Moscow Defense System, tell MAZ to create massive TEL designed to fire Moscow Defense missiles!!!  Cool
    I've been thinking about a similar ABM kind of missile system... One that fires larger numbers of "smaller" missile (little larger than the 9M96E2) all with hit-to-kill "warheads". Like I said in my latest post, the GPS is basically a hypersonic cruise missile. Which is something that many Russian SAMs could attack.

    The Holy grail in defense will be an entirely different technology not based on projectiles but on Electromagnetic Energy Plasma attacks..  Basically everyone have seen the Plasma Crystal Balls that you touch the surface and automatically and intantly your fingers touching the crystal activate an energy electric charge at the place you touch the crystal ball..  



    So imagine that concept on a larger Scale ,to the level of  a city.  You can have a Plasma Field ,shielding a city in a bubble.  Any missile that try to enter is automatically intercepted regardless of the maneuvers it do or speed and regardless of how many warheads.

    Those are Tesla Weapons. Very Happy
    im sure the first nation to master plasma energy on a wide scale for military use will truly take a huge lead
    in nation defense capabilities.. to the point of making any territory virtually immune to any ICBM attacks.
    Probably we will not see such kind of technology until at least 30 to 50 years more. That Plasma could be generated on a military large scale for frying anything that invade airspace..

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mike E on Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:28 am

    That technology is many years away, and the energy needed would be immense. 

    I know the US wants a "laser" based system, but IMHO that is worthless. - It would need to be 100% accurate in tracking a Mach 10+ object that has decoys, have fun with that!

    As of now missiles are the best defense. Actually, preventing the launch is even better... (Imagine a "satellite system" that could detect launches before they happen, and release a MIRV like object with a few hundred kilos of explosive! - Obviously, this would defeat almost every space treaty ever signed...)

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  medo on Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:08 pm

    http://vpk-news.ru/articles/21838

    Наблюдать за боевыми действиями экипажей и расчетов довелось с КП «Ясень», куда стекалась вся информация от средств объективного контроля. Отсюда же довольно удобно было следить за траекториями полета как мишеней ПВО, так и зенитных управляемых ракет.

    Первым отрабатывался эпизод отражения удара воздушного противника по обороняемым объектам. Для этого была создана противовоздушная группировка в составе:

    * зенитный ракетный полк ЗРС С-400;
    * зенитный ракетный полк ЗРС С-300ПМУ2;
    * полк ЗРК «Бук-М1»;
    * дивизион «Панцирь».



    При этом дивизион «Панцирь» действовал в составе полка С-400, а полк «Бук-М1» был оперативно подчинен командиру дивизии.

    Наряд сил противника включал эшелон подавления сил и средств ПВО, имитировавшихся мишенью Е-95 и ракетой-мишенью 95Я6.
    Охота за «кабаном»
    Фото: Михаил Жердев

    Вскоре обстановка стала усложняться. Противник нанес удар тактическими баллистическими ракетами (в их числе были нелюбимые ракетчиками мишени «Кабан») и эшелоном ударной авиации (подыгрывала ракета-мишень «Пищаль-Б»). Так что совместным расчетам пришлось прикрывать объект от ударов как тактических баллистических ракет, так и авиации.

    С индийскими коллегами было выработано решение по построению системы ПВО таким образом, чтобы на полк С-400 возложить задачу уничтожения тактических баллистических ракет. На системы С-300ПМУ2 и «Бук-М1» – уничтожение аэробаллистических и аэродинамических целей. Дивизион ЗРПК «Панцирь» выполнял функцию прикрытия полков С-300 и С-400 от ударов высокоточного оружия на марше.

    Сначала в воздухе появилась мишень Е-95, имитировавшая удар крылатой ракеты. Боевой расчет ЗРПК «Панцирь» обнаружил ее и уничтожил при входе в зону поражения, в чем руководство индийской делегации смогло убедиться воочию с КП «Ясень». В небе остались огненно-дымная траектория и облачко подрыва. По докладу КП цель уничтожена на дальности 10 километров и высоте один километр. Но с пуском другой ракеты, как потом выяснилось, что-то пошло не так. Что – об этом мы узнаем позже при профессиональном разборе стрельб.

    Командир дивизии по данным разведки установил, что в налете противник будет применять:

    * ракеты-мишени 95Я6-2М, имитирующие высокоточное оружие, – 2;
    * ракеты-мишени «Кабан», имитирующие удар тактических баллистических ракет, – 4;
    * ракеты-мишени «Пищаль-Б», имитирующие удар аэробаллистических и аэродинамических средств, – 7.



    Мишень «Кабан» запускалась с дальности 90 километров, «Пищаль-Б» – 75 километров, 95Я6-2М – 20 километров. Все они имеют очень малую отражающую поверхность и действовали с интервалом примерно 20 секунд.

    После доклада командиров полков о готовности к работе для отражения удара командир дивизии задействовал по баллистическим ракетам ЗРС С-400, аэробаллистическим – ЗРС С-300ПМУ2 и «Бук-М1». Зенитная ракетная система С-400 «Триумф» взяла на себя, пожалуй, основную нагрузку по сопровождению и уничтожению трех «Кабанов». Но вскоре в помощь ей руководство вынуждено было подключить еще и ЗРС С-300ПМУ2, поскольку обстановка резко обострилась после старта сразу двух «Пищалей-Б». К тому же четвертый «Кабан» атаковал охраняемый объект одновременно с мишенью «Пищаль-Б».

    «Четырехсотка» прекрасно справилась с массированным налетом, как, впрочем, и другие системы. Не зря индийцы попросили продемонстрировать ее работу (наряду с другими), хотя Россия до сих пор не поставляет за рубеж эти комплексы. А хотели бы закупить? Этот вопрос я задам в конце учения.

    В перерыве удалось пообщаться с первым заместителем исполнительного директора Тульского конструкторского бюро приборостроения Юрием Савенковым. Он рассказал, что в новом ЗРПК «Панцирь-С1», поступающем в войска, значительно усовершенствованы РЛС и тепловизор, который теперь убирается в башню транспортной установки. В результате ЗРПК стал удобнее для переброски по воздуху. В нем появилось много других новшеств, что позволяет лучше видеть, точнее стрелять, быстрее двигаться по пересеченной местности на камазовском шасси (хотя некоторые импортные образцы выполняются по просьбе заказчиков на шасси МАН). В стадии испытаний – новая, более совершенная высокоскоростная ракета.
    Подробнее: http://vpk-news.ru/articles/21838

    In Aero Indra 2014 exercise was also very interesting life firing tactical exercise for air defense, where they use S-400, S-300PMU2, Buk-M1 and Pantsir-S1 units. They fire on 3 types of air targets. 2 E-95 were emitting cruise missiles, 4 Kaban were emitting tactical ballistic missiles and 7 Pishchal-B were emitting PGMs and bombs from planes.

    Pantsir-S1 fire on 2 cruise missiles on the move and shot them down in 10 km distance. S-400 than work excellently against 3 ballistic missiles, than all other complexes fire on air targets simulating air launched PGMs in combination with Ballictic missile target. All targets have small RCS and were launched in intervals of 20 sec. They also use difficult flight paths, to make massive attack more realistic.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mike E on Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:09 pm

    I managed to find some videos of it, they really did a good job!

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Austin on Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:57 pm

    Mike E wrote:I managed to find some videos of it, they really did a good job!

    Can you share some video of Aero Indra 2014 , Thanks

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mike E on Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:12 pm

    Austin wrote:
    Mike E wrote:I managed to find some videos of it, they really did a good job!

    Can you share some video of Aero Indra 2014 , Thanks
    I'll go look for them...

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    2014 Deployment

    Post  calripson on Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:38 am

    How many S 400 deployed so far in 2014 and where ? How many planned for the year and where ? I recall in 2013 Putin said three regiments would be deployed in 2014 and last I heard the Kola Peninsula was a site for the next deployment.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:16 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:What we really need to see is a mobile Moscow Defense System, tell MAZ to create massive TEL designed to fire Moscow Defense missiles!!!  Cool
    I've been thinking about a similar ABM kind of missile system... One that fires larger numbers of "smaller" missile (little larger than the 9M96E2) all with hit-to-kill "warheads". Like I said in my latest post, the GPS is basically a hypersonic cruise missile. Which is something that many Russian SAMs could attack.

    The Holy grail in defense will be an entirely different technology not based on projectiles but on Electromagnetic Energy Plasma attacks..  Basically everyone have seen the Plasma Crystal Balls that you touch the surface and automatically and intantly your fingers touching the crystal activate an energy electric charge at the place you touch the crystal ball..  



    So imagine that concept on a larger Scale ,to the level of  a city.  You can have a Plasma Field ,shielding a city in a bubble.  Any missile that try to enter is automatically intercepted regardless of the maneuvers it do or speed and regardless of how many warheads.

    Those are Tesla Weapons. Very Happy
    im sure the first nation to master plasma energy on a wide scale for military use will truly take a huge lead
    in nation defense capabilities.. to the point of making any territory virtually immune to any ICBM attacks.
    Probably we will not see such kind of technology until at least 30 to 50 years more. That Plasma could be generated on a military large scale for frying anything that invade airspace..
    Helgast Air defense, i normally say go overkill or go home, but damn this is a completely different level of Overkill, might not happen in my life time though.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mike E on Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:26 am

    As of now it is nothing but a dream, so don't get too excited...

    Personally, I think *missiles are "cooler"*.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  rambo54 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:17 pm

    calripson wrote:How many S 400 deployed so far in 2014 and where ? How many planned for the year and where ? I recall in 2013 Putin said three regiments would be deployed in 2014 and last I heard the Kola Peninsula was a site for the next deployment.

    That is also the topic of my interest.


    Last edited by rambo54 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  RTN on Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:34 pm

    Question :

    How is it possible that Greek S-300 installations in Crete operate with NATO IFF systems?

    IIRC, Turkey is unable to accept the Chinese HQ-9 because it is incompatible with NATO IFF.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:41 am

    How is it possible that Greek S-300 installations in Crete operate with NATO IFF systems?

    IIRC, Turkey is unable to accept the Chinese HQ-9 because it is incompatible with NATO IFF.

    Marketing.

    IFF is simply a system used to determine targets from traffic in a passive way (ie without the targets cooperation).

    For instance when the Iranian Airbus taking off from an Iranian airfield and was squawking the correct IFF ID to identify itself as civilian had been a bit luckier and the software designer of their air defence system had not been so sloppy, the first time they squawked and the targeting marker was on the airfield it would have been identified as a civilian airliner, which it was.

    The problem was as the aircraft took off the cursor on the screen appeared to follow the aircraft, but the sensors were still looking at the original marked area which was the airport.

    When an F-14 took off its IFF ID showed it as a military aircraft which the AEGIS system displayed as hostile, but the blinking cursor had been locked on the civilian airliner as being now hostile...

    Well the rest is history....


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    RTN
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  RTN on Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:52 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Marketing.

    IFF is simply a system used to determine targets from traffic in a passive way (ie without the targets cooperation).

    Thanks Garry. So basically NATO IFF cannot be integrated with S-300? Correct?

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:04 am

    RTN wrote:
    Thanks Garry.  So basically NATO IFF cannot be integrated with S-300? Correct?

    It can but one have to ask Russia for integrating assistance and debugging.


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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  RTN on Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:05 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:It can but one have to ask Russia for integrating assistance and debugging.

    But Russia will not have access to NATO IFF technology. Therefore, integration & debugging will not be possible.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

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