Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Share

    Rpg type 7v
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 420
    Points : 284
    Join date : 2011-05-01

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Rpg type 7v on Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:32 pm

    Putin was talking about new systems to be integrated, they werent used in exercises !
    Read victors post above me...It will take time to get more info from ashuluk but s-300 missed 2/11.
    About nakhodka and s-400, that is in far east correct , just east of Vladivostok , im sure it covers whole sakhalin ,but what about kuril islands?
    There is no need for insults ....

    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3051
    Points : 3149
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  medo on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:16 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Rpg type 7v wrote:http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20130531/181444491/Recent-Aerospace-Defense-Drills-Satisfactory--Putin.html
    i would say dissapointing No
    only 9 out of 11 target were hit. dunno
    i would say s-300 even by trained russian crews has flopped and failed.
    we can only imagine how easy it will be for israel to obliterate it with pathetic syrian crews...

    It had nothing to do with the S-300. It had to do with the piss-poor management of the comanding officers using the C&C equipment. Anyway, even in US exercises, they do not get 100%, which is understandable as it is impossible to have 100% anyway.

    Don't even know what you are ranting about.

    I know those problems with C & C. C4I complexes in IADS are also dependent on their crews skills. Those command posts are responsible on target delivery to their subordinate units. When they are not very familiar with new equipment, they often deliver targets too late and the target is missed or missile is not launched.

    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 595
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 38
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  SOC on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:42 pm

    Rpg type 7v wrote:About nakhodka and s-400, that is in far east correct , just east of Vladivostok , im sure it covers whole sakhalin ,but what about kuril islands?

    Doesn't cover either of those. Both of them are too far away, even for the 400 km 40N6.

    Arrow
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 98
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Arrow on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:48 pm

    What about 40N6 missile?

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:55 pm

    Arrow wrote:What about 40N6 missile?

    Perhaps they may release some info on MAKS 2013. So far we know nothing about 40N6 and 9M96 line. All of them are according to last

    reports still on testing.

    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 595
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 38
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  SOC on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:57 pm

    Arrow wrote:What about 40N6 missile?

    What about it? Draw a 400 km circle around the Nakhodka battery in Google Earth and you'll see that it's lacking the range and is out of position anyway to defend either Sakhalin or the Kuriles. Plus the distances involved mean one battery isn't covering everything anyway.

    Viktor wrote:So far we know nothing about 40N6 and 9M96 line. All of them are according to last reports still on testing.

    40N6 supposedly completed testing in mid-2012.

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:18 pm

    SOC wrote:
    Viktor wrote:So far we know nothing about 40N6 and 9M96 line. All of them are according to last reports still on testing.

    40N6 supposedly completed testing in mid-2012.

    Most likely being tested by Russian PVO now. I think we would have known by now if 40N6 had entered service within S-400 system.

    Almaz-Antej did not mentioned 40N6 it in its 2012 report (which is good) but it did mentioned working on modernized S-400.

    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 595
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 38
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  SOC on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:28 pm

    Last news bit I saw said the 40N6 was done with all trials in 2012, with production cleared to begin and service entry theorized for some point in 2013.

    http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20120628/174293966.html

    Rpg type 7v
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 420
    Points : 284
    Join date : 2011-05-01

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Rpg type 7v on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:42 pm

    yes its too far south-west from the island... but if it was more north it could cover sakhalin at least, from pacific shore of continental asia.


    Last edited by Rpg type 7v on Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : coordinates)

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:22 am

    yes its too far south-west from the island... but if it was more north it could cover sakhalin at least, from pacific shore of continental asia.

    Anything of importance on those islands worthy of protection will likely have their own S-300 batteries.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 595
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 38
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  SOC on Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:32 am

    GarryB wrote:
    yes its too far south-west from the island... but if it was more north it could cover sakhalin at least, from pacific shore of continental asia.

    Anything of importance on those islands worthy of protection will likely have their own S-300 batteries.

    Not necessarily:

    1) There aren't any batteries there now, but...

    2) That's a factor of S-300P/400 batteries mostly deploying in Western Command. The Vladivostok region (including Nakhodka), Komsomolsk, and Petropavlovsk are it for the Eastern Command's S-300P/400 deployment. Central Command is "worse", and Southern Command is a bit better off but that's because it's smaller. But this all is logical given what they need to defend where. Plus, Eastern Command has a crapload of FLANKERs and FOXHOUNDs in the area so they aren't exactly lacking for air defense.

    Rpg type 7v
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 420
    Points : 284
    Join date : 2011-05-01

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Rpg type 7v on Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    yes its too far south-west from the island... but if it was more north it could cover sakhalin at least, from pacific shore of continental asia.

    Anything of importance on those islands worthy of protection will likely have their own S-300 batteries.
    oil,gas are already being extracted...
    potentially many rare minerals too...
    japan is posturing, and maybe china.
    sakhalin is a big island and pretty long north-south. im sure that justifies at least some older s-300 battery there which could also cover kuril island group too.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:00 am

    But this all is logical given what they need to defend where. Plus, Eastern Command has a crapload of FLANKERs and FOXHOUNDs in the area so they aren't exactly lacking for air defense.

    So what SAMs are defending the major military airfields in the region?

    I thought there were a few secret bases in the region used for testing... it was mentioned when KAL 007 was shot down.

    oil,gas are already being extracted...
    potentially many rare minerals too...
    japan is posturing, and maybe china.

    So what if China and Japan are posturing... what is a SAM site going to do?

    They are working on highly mobile forces, which means that if there is a problem in that region a division or two or a couple of brigades would be sent... which presumably would include a few S-300V4 batteries.

    sakhalin is a big island and pretty long north-south. im sure that justifies at least some older s-300 battery there which could also cover kuril island group too.

    They don't have to protect all of it... just the settlements and air bases and other military installations... for that BUK and TOR will be fine.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:35 pm

    GarryB wrote:They are working on highly mobile forces, which means that if there is a problem in that region a division or two or a couple of brigades would be sent... which presumably would include a few S-300V4 batteries.

    I was told by someone that S-300V4 doesn't actually exist as there is no new info about it.

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:24 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I was told by someone that S-300V4 doesn't actually exist as there is no new info about it.

    I think that Russian army who ordered the system might disagree with that someone Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

    Anyway another huge AD exercise about to kick off and this time in Central Military District

    Teachings of aviation and aerospace defense forces started in Buryatia


    The first phase of the doctrine, in which the command of the Air Force and Air Defense District checks readiness of subordinate air units and ASD.


    MOSCOW, June 6 - RIA Novosti. joint exercises aviation parts and connections of aerospace defense of the Central Military District (CVO) kicked off on Thursday, the active phase of the event will be held from 21 to 27 June at the site "Telemba" (Buryatia), the press service CVO.

    "Today is the first stage of teaching, in which the command of the Air Force and Air Defense District checks the combat readiness of subordinate air units and ASD. Joint exercises brought to the air group" Shagol "(Chelyabinsk region)," Koltsovo "(Sverdlovsk region)," Kansk "(Krasnoyarsk Territory) and the Siberian connection aerospace defense, "- said in a statement. As specified, the pilots and gunners CVO will jointly conduct live firing on the range "Telemba."


    "The crews of fighter-interceptor MiG-31BM and crews of anti-aircraft missile systems S-300PS reflect massive missile and air attack conventional enemy, and teplokontrastnymi simulated supersonic targets. Active phase (exercise) will be held from 21 to 27 June," - said in a press release. According to the CVO, the commander of the union activity led the Air Force and Air Defense District, Major General Victor Sevostianov.



    LINK

    My naimsake is leading the exercises Very Happy Very Happy

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:26 pm

    Is there any evidence the system was orderd? As well, how come we have not seen nor heard anything new of it in a while?

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:41 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Is there any evidence the system was orderd? As well, how come we have not seen nor heard anything new of it in a while?


    Link does not work anymore.

    Anyway Russan Army should be equipped with 9 S-300V4 brigades. Almaz-Antej received orders to make 3 battalions of S-300V4

    until 2016.

    Existing S-300V will be modernized to S-300V4 standard (4 -5 Brigades) and the difference will be ordered by 2020.

    Now this may change a little and Russia might end up with slightly less number of S-300V4 brigades by 2020 but still its double

    the number it had up until now.

    More to it there are reports (on this topic) about S-300V4 achieving ranges of 350km and is now the longest range SAM in Russian arsenal.

    It seems that former Almaz-Antej director (for unknown reason), Igor Ashurbeili, put a great emphasize on S-300V4 development

    - even now his name is being called for S-400 delay because S-300V4 has been prioritized.



    The Russian newspaper. Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the 2020 Army brigade will have nine air defense S-300.

    This informs RIA Novosti reported.



    "Only in the Army brigade should arrive 10 missile systems" Iskander-M ', 9 Brigade Army air defense complexes S-300V4, more than 2,3 thousand tanks, about two thousand self-propelled artillery systems and tools, and more than 30,000 units vehicles. also plans to put new systems of communication, management, advanced reconnaissance systems, complexes of individual military equipment ", - Putin said at a meeting on the equipment ground and airborne forces.



    SAM family of S-300 is considered one of the most powerful air-defense systems in the world. Currently, S-300 systems are the basis of Russian air defense and ground forces, and successfully sold on the world market. On the basis of S-300 has developed new S-400 system, capable of firing, as the new missiles, and ammunition to use than its predecessor.

    http://www.rg.ru/

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:00 pm

    But hardly any info can be found on S-300V4. Heck, did they upgrade the missile to use an ARH rather than SARH? Does it have any IIR system to it? I mean, they can indeed improve the system by upgrade the 9M82M missile with ARH and maybe some sort of IIR subsystem, and newer radar (to work in conjunction with Nebo-SVU AESA radar), but nothing is really said at the moment. The system could be very effective in deal with Ballistic missiles with such upgrades. But so far, all hearsay.

    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3051
    Points : 3149
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  medo on Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:33 pm

    Almaz-Antey last year receive, I think, about 28 new tracked vehicles for S-300V4, so maybe they are now in process of building or in testing before they will be delivered.

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:40 pm

    sepheronx wrote:But hardly any info can be found on S-300V4. Heck, did they upgrade the missile to use an ARH rather than SARH? Does it have any IIR system to it? I mean, they can indeed improve the system by upgrade the 9M82M missile with ARH and maybe some sort of IIR subsystem, and newer radar (to work in conjunction with Nebo-SVU AESA radar), but nothing is really said at the moment.

    - Who knows what has been done as this is a version that has been developed for Russian army and there is no need to advertise it.

    anyway 350km range is confirmed and S-300V4 is now even longer ranged than S-400

    - Nebo-M was initially developed to work with Army S-300V (one per regiment should be deployed - same as with S-400)

    - guidance is much more complex than SARH (SAGG guidance is applied - version of TVM)

    sepheronx wrote:The system could be very effective in deal with Ballistic missiles with such upgrades. But so far, all hearsay.

    - From mid 80ies this was the first mobile anti ballistic missile system in the world that could effectively engage ballistic missiles

    (and all the rest - fighters/winged missiles/special planes etc) - Americans achieved the same 15 years later while during the same

    time S-300V evolved even further and is now being able to cope with 3000+ km range ballistic missiles.

    - so this is not a system that could be effective but what has been effective for almost 30 years now and its capabilities have

    grown significantly.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:55 pm

    Any links regarding this SAGG guidance system? What makes it more complex?

    350KM is great, but wont be better than S-400 when the 40N6 is out in full production.

    Rpg type 7v
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 420
    Points : 284
    Join date : 2011-05-01

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Rpg type 7v on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:54 pm

    Viktor wrote:


    Nope, all targets where shoot down.

    C-300 hit all targets during exercises near Astrakhan
    LINK


    The audit will cover the combat calculations designated areas for the purpose of detecting and destroying aircraft and ballistic targets represented a real target. LINK
    Actually i reconfirmed the description of targets in your link and yes s-300 did destroy all pishchal targets 6/6 at the same time.
    pishcal is this-
    http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vvs/mk_rm-5v27a.html
    (top speed 900m/s)

    ballistic target where it scored 9/11 are this:
    http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vvs/mk_rm-96m6m.html
    http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vvs/mk_rm-75.html
    http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vvs/mk_rm_sinitsa.html

    Rpg type 7v
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 420
    Points : 284
    Join date : 2011-05-01

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Rpg type 7v on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:19 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Any links regarding this SAGG guidance system? What makes it more complex?

    350KM is great, but wont be better than S-400 when the 40N6 is out in full production.
    seeker aided guidance. semi-active but very resistant to jamming and ecm , because missile receives bounced off signal and sends target coordinates to aiming radar via its datalink. if radar doesnt use bounced off signal from target but only data received from missile its -tvm -or track via missile, if it uses both received signals and compares for a composite picture then its seeker aided guidance.
    no matter how powerful or large radar is missile is much closer to target at the end of engagement so it gets more accurate data about targets position and its not emmiting so enemy doesnt know where it is exactly so it cant jamm it.
    so using sagg if your radar is jammed eg.- the position of target according to aiming radar is not the same as the data received from missile, you can actually know what ECM the enemy is using and automatically use proper ECCM to rectify target data.
    and missile position is always known because it is illuminated too like in radio-command.shorter range missiles will have radar beacons in them.

    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 595
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 38
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  SOC on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:35 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    But this all is logical given what they need to defend where. Plus, Eastern Command has a crapload of FLANKERs and FOXHOUNDs in the area so they aren't exactly lacking for air defense.

    So what SAMs are defending the major military airfields in the region?

    I thought there were a few secret bases in the region used for testing... it was mentioned when KAL 007 was shot down.


    S-300PS batteries around the Vladivostok and Komsomolsk area, S-300PS batteries around Petropavlovsk, and S-400 batteries around Nakhodka. S-300V and Buk batteries garrisoned near Vladivostok as well.

    The secret testing bases were probably an allusion to the Telemba test/training complex a bit further inland, or some of the weird radar systems they were messing with like STEEL YARD. At that time they could have still been considered in the operational testing phase following installation.

    Arrow
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 98
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Arrow on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:56 pm

    S-300PS is very old SAM system.

    Sponsored content

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 11:25 pm


      Current date/time is Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:24 pm