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    S-300V Army SAM System

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    Mike E
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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Mike E on Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:19 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    medo wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Just for laughs people, are the U.S. stronk crew actually this delusional lol??? There's F-35 Lightning II promotional videos demonstrating that they can defeat S-300V4/Antey-2500 easily lol... lol1 lol1 lol1



    ...At the 2:42 mark. Can anyone spot all the inaccuracies in the F-35 vs S-300V4 scenario lol? Very Happy Wink

    Russia had an answer more than a decade ago. I remember, that I was reading at the end of the nineties or in the beginning of 2000, that Russian PVO made tests with Orion ELINT complex and Buk-M1-2, where Orion complex triangulate any source of aircraft emission in enough small box, that Buk-M1-2 could engage the target without using its own radars. Any emission from F-35, being radar, data ling, communications, IFF, TACAN, etc, could very precisely triangulate its position with Orion or other similar ELINT complexes without even noticing in F-35.

    Interesting point. The problems that I saw in the video was:

    1.) The absence of effective SHORAD systems. No Tunguska, no Tor, no Pantsir.

    2.) The absence of ground based electronic warfare systems.

    3.) The max range of AN/APG-81 AESA of the F-35 is 150 km, while max missile engagement range of Antey-2500 (export) is 350 km, and the domestic S-300V4 is 400km, almost 3 times greater range than the F-35's AESA radar.

    4.) The power emitted from the S-300V4 battery is probably several times greater than that of the AN/APG-81, so it's extremely unlikely that the F-35 could jam the S-300V4.

    ...That's just from the atop of my head.
    Who are you kidding Magnum... We all know the F-35's amazing powerful radar can jam anything from any range.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:05 am

    F-35 is not a joke guys... Russia doesn't have any programs near its design... Its one of the most capable VTOL 5th generation flying practice target for Russian anti air defense Very Happy But seriously, To what targets and at what range is the F-35s jamming able?

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:57 am

    VladimirSahin wrote:F-35 is not a joke guys... Russia doesn't have any programs near its design... Its one of the most capable VTOL 5th generation flying practice target for Russian anti air defense Very Happy But seriously, To what targets and at what range is the F-35s jamming able?

    Other aircraft of an older generation, with older generation radars that are not jamming resistant, that are not high quality AESA's. It's definitely not more powerful than the PAK-FA's X-band AESA, with a range of 400km, it's nearly 3 times the range of APG-81. Seeing how so many countries were convinced in to buying F-35's, a likely scenario would be F-35's vs S-400's, where both vehicles would be wielding AESA, except the S-400's AESA has a 2,500km range as opposed to the F-35's 150km range, and the S-400's L-band AESA is several times more powerful, and would have no problem detecting the F-35. As GarryB pointed out earlier in the thread, the S-400's 2,500km range AESA would have a very powerful jamming capability built into it.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:54 am

    What mean jamming a radar? Burning equipment because of your radar longer wavelenght?

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  medo on Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:58 am

    Now imagine different scenario. F-35 is attacking Iranian air space. Iran also have Avtobaza ELINT complex, so they could effectively triangulate exact location of F-35 in Iranian air space and deliver this target to the nearest Iranian KS-19 100 mm AAA battery with modern FCS complex, which lock this F-35 in optical mode with TV or TI and measure distance with laser range finder. Modern ballistic computer could very precisely calculate a point of hit of 100 mm round with F-35 in the air. So what in this process could this super AESA radar jam?

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:54 am

    Russian army puts into service long-range missile for S-300V4 system — source

    First, the S-300B4 systems in the Western military district are to be equipped with these missiles, the source adds



    MOSCOW, March 5. /TASS/. Russia’s military have put into service a long-range missile for the S-300V4 air defense system, a source in the country’s Defense Ministry told TASS on Thursday.

    "The missile range reaches 400 kilometers [250 miles]," the source said.

    The new missile successfully passed the state tests late last year, he said. First, the S-300V4 systems in the Western military district are to be equipped with these missiles, the source added.

    The supplies of S-300V4 systems to Russia’s Ground Forces began only in 2014. The servicemen received two division sets of these systems which are considered to be more efficient than their predecessors by up to 2.5 times.

    Late last year, the press service of the Almaz Antey air defense systems manufacturer told TASS the new longer range missiles for the S-300V4 systems were being developed, giving no further details.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:28 pm

    Russian Military Receives Second Batch of New S-300V4 Air Defense Systems

    Russia's Air Defense Forces have received their second batch of a new modification of the S-300 surface-to-air system, with expanded anti-aircraft, anti-cruise and anti-ballistic missile capabilities.

    Russia's new Richag-AV radar and sonar jamming system can be mounted on helicopters, ships and other military equipment to jam potential adversaries' weapons systems from distances of several hundred kilometers; it has been hailed by developers as having no analogue anywhere in the world.

    Almaz-Antei Air Defense Concern has delivered three batteries of the new S-300V4 system to the Russian military, which expects to deploy the new system in the Western Military District, according to a source in the Ministry of Defense.

    The new system, designed between 2012-2014, is a modernized version of the S-300V3, with elements from versions of the S-300V Antei-2500 which were produced for export. It includes new, more advance computational components, which have expanded its range by 100 km (to 400 km), as well as its anti-missile defensive umbrella's effectiveness.

    The new system, designed between 2012-2014, is a modernized version of the S-300V3, with elements from versions of the S-300V Antei-2500 which were produced for export. It includes new, more advance computational components, which have expanded its range by 100 km (to 400 km), as well as its anti-missile defensive umbrella's effectiveness. The Air Defense Forces received their first S-300V4 brigade in December 2014; the military had conducted successful testing of the new systems before that.

    Military specialists estimate that the new system is 1.5-2.3 times more effective in its anti-missile defense capabilities. In addition to offering cruise and short-range tactical ballistic missile defense, the defensive system is capable of targeting medium-range ballistic missiles launched from a distance of up to 2,500 km away.

    The military's contract with Almaz-Antei calls for the provision of nine S-300V4 brigades by 2020.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150305/1019089902.html#ixzz3TVtnoAv6

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:52 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:F-35 is not a joke guys... Russia doesn't have any programs near its design... Its one of the most capable VTOL 5th generation flying practice target for Russian anti air defense Very Happy But seriously, To what targets and at what range is the F-35s jamming able?

    +1 for this awesome comment

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  ahmedfire on Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:15 am

    Is that means 40N6 will be added to Antey-2500 ? Smile

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  kvs on Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:10 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:F-35 is not a joke guys... Russia doesn't have any programs near its design... Its one of the most capable VTOL 5th generation flying practice target for Russian anti air defense Very Happy But seriously, To what targets and at what range is the F-35s jamming able?

    What has VTOL got to do with anything? It's an air craft carrier centered gimmick. Why does Russia need an overpriced
    single engine, short range attack fighter? It already has the Mig-35. Your claim that Russia has nothing near the F-35
    sounds like some retarded prattle from F16.net. Western superiority masturbation. Look up the PAK-FA and don't engage
    in semantics that it does not fit the F-35 role. Your claim is all about Russian technical capabilities.

    I am quite sure that Russian missiles are very well protected from US jamming of any sort short of EMP detonations. So
    the F-35 is not going to be immune from Russian missiles attacks. When someone goes on about stealth being about
    invisibility, they need to be dismissed out of hand. They know zilch about the physics.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:16 pm

    kvs wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:F-35 is not a joke guys... Russia doesn't have any programs near its design... Its one of the most capable VTOL 5th generation flying practice target for Russian anti air defense Very Happy But seriously, To what targets and at what range is the F-35s jamming able?

    What has VTOL got to do with anything?  It's an air craft carrier centered gimmick.  Why does Russia need an overpriced
    single engine, short range attack fighter?  It already has the Mig-35.   Your claim that Russia has nothing near the F-35
    sounds like some retarded prattle from F16.net.   Western superiority masturbation.   Look up the PAK-FA and don't engage
    in semantics that it does not fit the F-35 role.   Your claim is all about Russian technical capabilities.

    I am quite sure that Russian missiles are very well protected from US jamming of any sort short of EMP detonations.    So
    the F-35 is not going to be immune from Russian missiles attacks.   When someone goes on about stealth being about
    invisibility, they need to be dismissed out of hand.   They know zilch about the physics.

    Uh, I think you missed the part about it being a practice target, he wasn't praising it...he was mocking it.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:50 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:Is that means 40N6 will be added to Antey-2500 ?  Smile

    I wonder if it need 40N6. Further development for 9M82 missile family is what it need, maybe it can have kinetic kill vehicle as THAAD thus it can match THAAD envelope without any physical modifications to the missile.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Austin on Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:16 pm

    "Antey-2500" is capable of hitting targets at a distance of 400 km - general designer

    New anti-aircraft missile system "Antey-2500" (export version of S-300V4) has in its arsenal of long-range missile, which is capable of, inter alia, to solve the problem of non-strategic missile defense, said in an interview to "Interfax-AVN" Chief Designer Concern PVO "Almaz-Antey" Paul Sozinov.

    "Significantly enhance the capacity for hitting range. We already live up to 400 km. This greatly facilitates the combat use of all other systems because it forces the jammers at a safe distance," - said P.Sozinov.

    According to him, the aircraft airborne patrol and control, such as AWACS, now can not enter with impunity in the 400-kilometer zone. Accordingly, the reduced ability to manage the attack and fighter aircraft. "The introduction of this kind of long-range missiles significantly alters the potential situation that may arise in the reflection of appropriate shocks" - said the general designer.

    Speaking about the new properties of S "Antey-2500" P.Sozinov also noted a high adaptability of the system. "If you look at the component parts, a lot had to alter or to do over again, thus ensuring the necessary quality and volume mass production. This AAMS, for example, implemented a specialized chassis. When creating this system, as well, and SAM" Tor-M2 "we walked the path does not restore some elements of production, and the creation of new analogues ", - he said.

    Responding to a question, consider it possible to create modifications "Antey-2500" on chassis P.Sozinov said that the corresponding project is already there. "Therefore, if there is a demand in the automobile chassis, we run it," - said the general designer.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:50 am

    As I said, I'm not able to read russian language.
    Does someone know why we find a 48N6E drawing on a S-300V4 schematic?



    Maybe 48N6E in fact is this mysterious 400km missile which is also used in S-300V4 (9A83!) now?

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  max steel on Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:29 pm

    Even I can't read russian . Embarassed

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Stealthflanker on Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:42 pm

    I can't read Russian either but i'm pretty sure S-300V doesn't use 48N6 missile family.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:30 am

    Whoever put that infographic together screwed up.

    The S-300V series is the Russian Army family of long range SAMs, which is not related to the S-300P missiles used by the Russian Air Force and Air Defence Forces, or the related S-300F used by the Russian Navy.

    That is to say the Navy and Air Force missiles (S-300F and S-300P) are related and externally look the same, but the S-300V looks totally different and has a completely separate family tree.

    Likely the person making this infographic found out the latest model S-300V4 has a range of 400km and assumed that was because it uses the 400km S-300 missile.

    It does not.

    Note in cyrillic C is S and B is V in English so C-300B4 is S-300V4.


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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:09 pm

    rambo54 wrote:Does someone has an idea where the new S-300V4 garrison has been established? (Sochi area?)

    Only this ....


    Firing drills featuring hypersonic S-300V4 missile system to be held in Russia’s south

    At the end of last year, the S-300V4 air defense missile system entered service in the Southern Military District force grouping

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:56 am

    George1 wrote:

    Almaz-Antei Air Defense Concern has delivered three batteries of the new S-300V4 system to the Russian military, which expects to deploy the new system in the Western Military District, according to a source in the Ministry of Defense.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150305/1019089902.html#ixzz3TVtnoAv6

    I always thought it would be a "southern military district" - now it is a "western district" which makes more sense to me.
    So it could be 202nd AD BGD Naro-Fominsk or 43rd AD BGD Znamensk.

    A S-400 Unit is usually organized in an AirDefence RGT consisting of 2 or 3 Battalions (Batteries) with 8 launchers each.

    May I asked whow a S-300V unit is organized?
    Here sometimes we speak about "Divison" or "Brigade" and sometimes "Battery".
    What is the basic structure (e.g. one BGD with 3 Batteries?)?
    And how many launchers of 9A83/9A83 do we have in a Battery?

    Thanks for any Info

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:22 pm

    rambo54 wrote:A S-400 Unit is usually organized in an AirDefence RGT consisting of 2 or 3 Battalions (Batteries) with 8 launchers each.


    S-300P


    S-400 battery: shooting radar with its command post (92N6), up to 12 TEL units + search radar (usually 96L6)) -  can be strengthen accodring to evaluations + decoys + cammo nets
    S-400 regiment: (up to 8 S-400 batteries) + regimental command post (55K6) + regimental search radar (91N6) + ECM + Passive systems of detection + SHORADs + decoys + etc
    S-400 brigade: (2 S-400 regiments) + brigade level command post (Baikal-1M) + SHORADs + decoys + ECM units + cammo nets + passive detection systems .. etc

    now these are only units but they are highly developed and integrated within all other units forming integrated air defense


    rambo54 wrote:May I asked whow a S-300V unit is organized?
    Here sometimes we speak about "Divison" or "Brigade" and sometimes "Battery".
    What is the basic structure (e.g. one BGD with 3 Batteries?)?
    And how many launchers of 9A83/9A83 do we have in a Battery?

    Thanks for any Info

    S-300V

    S-300V4 battery: (non-existant military unit ): consists of shooting radar + 2x9A82 + 4x9A83 + 1x9A84 + 2x9A85 + up to 48 missile reload
    S-300V4 regiment: 4 x S-300V4 battery + regimental command post + search radar + sector radar
    S-300V4 brigade: 3 x S-300V4 regiment + brigade level command post + ECM + passive detection + decoys + cammo nets + SHORAD + additional radar troops + etc

    Now this info is for a max capacity of batteries/regiments/brigades

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:34 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    rambo54 wrote:A S-400 Unit is usually organized in an AirDefence RGT consisting of 2 or 3 Battalions (Batteries) with 8 launchers each.


    S-300P


    S-400 battery: shooting radar with its command post (92N6), up to 12 TEL units + search radar (usually 96L6)) -  can be strengthen accodring to evaluations + decoys + cammo nets
    S-400 regiment: (up to 8 S-400 batteries) + regimental command post (55K6) + regimental search radar (91N6) + ECM + Passive systems of detection + SHORADs + decoys + etc
    S-400 brigade: (2 S-400 regiments) + brigade level command post (Baikal-1M) + SHORADs + decoys + ECM units + cammo nets + passive detection systems .. etc

    now these are only units but they are highly developed and integrated within all other units forming integrated air defense


    rambo54 wrote:May I asked whow a S-300V unit is organized?
    Here sometimes we speak about "Divison" or "Brigade" and sometimes "Battery".
    What is the basic structure (e.g. one BGD with 3 Batteries?)?
    And how many launchers of 9A83/9A83 do we have in a Battery?

    Thanks for any Info

    S-300V

    S-300V4 battery: (non-existant military unit ): consists of shooting radar + 2x9A82 + 4x9A83 + 1x9A84 + 2x9A85 + up to 48 missile reload
    S-300V4 regiment: 4 x S-300V4 battery + regimental command post + search radar + sector radar
    S-300V4 brigade: 3 x S-300V4 regiment + brigade level command post + ECM + passive detection + decoys + cammo nets + SHORAD + additional radar troops + etc

    Now this info is for a max capacity of batteries/regiments/brigades

    Thank you very much!
    So in the last posts of this thread we got the info that either "two divisional sets" or "three batteries" got S-300V4 in the "western military district".
    A single regiment would have 4 batteries - not just three. And what do they mean by "divisional sets"?
    Any ideas?
    Thanks in advance

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:05 pm

    rambo54 wrote:Thank you very much!
    So in the last posts of this thread we got the info that either "two divisional sets" or "three batteries" got S-300V4 in the "western military district".
    A single regiment would have 4 batteries - not just three. And what do they mean by "divisional sets"?
    Any ideas?
    Thanks in advance


    And in this regard I made a mistake. I should have said "up to 4 batteries" in regards to S-300V4 regiment.

    Nowdays when the S-400 is just starting to come out in decent numbers and S-300V4 delivery is at its begginings it makes more sense to make a mix of new and

    old (modernized) system forming regiments and brigades because new systems will significantly increase combat efficiencies of the older systems too.

    In this regard I have been told that Russia actually produced higher number of 92N6 shooting radars/command post than the number of S-400 batteries exists today distributing them

    to an older defense systems but I could never verify such claim.

    On the other question. Divisional set can be regarded as a smallest functional unit in a PVO sense. Because of what you have situation where

    S-300PMU/400 battery divisional set equals battery but S-300V divisional set equals regimental streingth because smaller operational S-300V unit is a regiment not battery although

    journalist tend to call them battalions also. S-300P/400 battalion equals regimental set and the brigade is the same in both cases.

    Now strength of each S-300 PVO unit is subjected to change in relation to the emerging threats thus making even brigade level sets consisting from just 4 batteries possible.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:42 pm

    So "two divisional sets" could mean they re-equipped two regiments? And the statement in the other source "three batteries" could mean that they re-equipped one regiment (with 3 Batts) - right?

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:48 pm

    rambo54 wrote:So "two divisional sets" could mean they re-equipped two regiments? And the statement in the other source "three batteries" could mean that they re-equipped one regiment (with 3 Batts) - right?

    Yes and no. With 3 batteries you can equip a newly formed regiment (consisting of two batteries) and with the one left you can add to some of the existing formation and still be able

    to said you have re-equipped another regiment with the new S-300V4 which would not be entirely true but still not entirely untrue Very Happy ... and than comes uneducated journalists

    with their writings like they are reporting from some street market so only by comparing lots of different sources on the same matter and using logic (which is your strongest weapon

    in this chaos) you will be able to come to some reasonable conclusions. Also there is a question of intelligence and counter-intelligence besides standard Russian practice to complicate

    things for any observer.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:55 pm

    Thanks Victor!


    Last edited by rambo54 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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